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Wednesday, June 13, 2012

A-Rod, Swisher Voted Among MLB’s Most Hated In Player Poll; Joba Most Overrated

Most shocking than full-bore Swishaliciousness doesn’t play well around the league…

Surprise, surprise: Alex Rodriguez isn’t beloved among his peers.

The slugger, who continued his assault on the record books Tuesday night, was voted by 100 big-league baseball players as the sport’s second-most hated star (10 percent) behind White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski (34 percent) in a “secret survey” by Men’s Journal.

And look who came in third with 9 percentage points: jovial Yankees outfielder Nick Swisher.

“Everything about (Swisher) is annoying, from his mannerisms to his always wanting to ‘bro’ it down,” an unnamed American League veteran told the magazine. “Being around him is just exhausting.”

...Injured Yankees reliever Joba Chamberlain took home the unflattering prize of “most overrated.”

“If Joba didn’t play in New York, no one would know him,” one player said.

Repoz Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM | 100 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

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   1. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4155571)
Swisher is a tool. In each subsequent interview I have seen this year he seems to get more and more toolsy.
   2. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4155574)
A-Rod and Joba I can see, but if you don't appreciate Nick Swisher's obvious enthusiasm for the game, you either hate baseball or just hate the Yankees. The sky-pointing to his grandfather is a little over the top, but by this time it seems as if about every third player does some variant of this.
   3. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4155578)
You talk about burying the damn lede:
The slugger, who continued his assault on the record books Tuesday night, was voted by 100 big-league baseball players as the sport’s second-most hated star (10 percent) behind White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski (34 percent) in a “secret survey” by Men’s Journal.

And look who came in third with 9 percentage points: jovial Yankees outfielder Nick Swisher.
1/3 of players surveyed independently volunteered that they hated AJ Pierzynski. That is Hall of Fame level ######## recognition.
   4. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4155579)
The sky-pointing to his grandfather is a little over the top


It's to his grandmother
   5. Greg K Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4155580)
A-Rod and Joba I can see, but if you don't appreciate Nick Swisher's obvious enthusiasm for the game, you either hate baseball or just hate the Yankees.

I'm not sure which is more likely, 9% of the AL hates baseball or 9% of the AL hates the Yankees...

I quite liked Nick Swisher in Oakland, so my current hatred of him is the lukewarm, conscious that it's just because he's a Yankee variety of hate. Rather than the Jeter hate that my psyche has become so dependent on over the years that I've repressed the fact that it's just because he's a Yankee.
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4155585)
Swisher? Really? His antics are a bit silly, but I can't say I hate him, even if he does play for the Yankees.

In the same poll, Philly was voted most annoying fans and Todd Coffey was voted most out-of-shape player.

More poll results here. Royals third least-favorite team to play for. Awesome work Glass family.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4155589)
You talk about burying the damn lede:


That's the lede for us, but not for New York's CBS station.

1/3 of players surveyed independently volunteered that they hated AJ Pierzynski. That is Hall of Fame level ######## recognition.


He's committed to it in a way that most guys aren't.

I will say this, having listened to him do a weekly spot on a local sports station for several years: he's one of the most entertaining, informative current athletes I've ever heard. He's great.
   8. RJ in TO Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4155590)
1/3 of players surveyed independently volunteered that they hated AJ Pierzynski. That is Hall of Fame level ######## recognition.

And yet it's completely unsurprising. The guy goes out of his way to be an ####### as much as possible.
   9. Depressoteric Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4155592)
Yeah I'm with Andy here...I mean maybe the players get a different perspective on him than we do, but I like Swisher and his attitude.
   10. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4155595)
The sky-pointing to his grandfather is a little over the top

It's to his grandmother


------------------------------------------------

I thought it was his grandfather, but then I haven't heard it explained for over three years, so I'm sure you're right.

A-Rod and Joba I can see, but if you don't appreciate Nick Swisher's obvious enthusiasm for the game, you either hate baseball or just hate the Yankees.

I'm not sure which is more likely, 9% of the AL hates baseball or 9% of the AL hates the Yankees...


I blame it all on the foreign takeover of baseball, because no real American could ever hate the Yankees. They aren't fondly known as "America's Team" for nothing.

Well, maybe an alien quasi-American like Petunia could hate the Yanks, but he's an exception.
   11. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4155597)
The sky-pointing to his grandfather is a little over the top


I'm waiting for the athlete who has a realistic view of the character of his dead relatives and so points straight down after hitting a home run.
   12. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4155598)
1/3 of players surveyed independently volunteered that they hated AJ Pierzynski. That is Hall of Fame level ######## recognition.

It reminds me of an SI poll in 1999 or so on who players thought would make a good manager someday. The top five was something like Cal Ripken, Mark Grace, Harold Baines, Tony Gwynn, and Tom Prince.
   13. zonk Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4155605)
Chicago voted best groupies by a wide margin... I guess Starlin stuffed the ballot box.... or not.
   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:18 PM (#4155606)
   15. Cowboy Popup Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4155609)
From the NBCsports article:

In a Men’s Journal survey of 100 Major League Baseball players, White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski was voted “most hated player” with 34% of the votes. “He likes to talk a lot of sh**, and I’ve heard he’s a bad teammate,” one National League pitcher tells Men’s Journal. “He’s been a prick to guys on his own pitching staff. Basically, if you haven’t got five years in the big leagues, he treats you like you’re a peasant. He’s that kind of guy.”
   16. johnseal Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4155612)
They don't call him Ass Jack for nothing.

Loved Swisher when he was with the A's; he's one of the few Yankees I can't bring myself to hate.
   17. ecwcat Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4155613)
I would say players hate Swisher for the following reasons:

1) They are conditioned not to express emotion, so Swish is "different" and "goes against" the unwritten code of just seeing the game as a politically correct job.
2) They may be envious that Swish can "get away" with being so lively and expressive.
3) Typical Yankees hate; I don't recall him being hated with the A's.
4) They may believe that someone who is so enthusiastic, down to earth, and actually nice to everyone is a phony.

Haters gonna hate.

You must be a joykiller at parties if you're going to hate on Swish.

I actually see him as an enlightened human being who strives to be positive and an inspiration. Sure you can see he's immature, but he loves the game- genuinely.

Those who hate on him probably suck the energy out of a room or message board thread with their sarcasm and negativity.
   18. formerly dp Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4155614)
I dislike Swisher because he's a good and underappreciated talent the Yanks got for next to nothing because the White Sox are morons. The Yankees have enough advantages without pilfering good players from teams who decide buying high and selling low is a great way to stockpile talent.

Also, wtf was he thinking with that bunt against the Mets last weekend?
   19. SoSH U at work Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4155621)
I would say players hate Swisher for the following reasons:

1) They are conditioned not to express emotion, so Swish is "different" and "goes against" the unwritten code of just seeing the game as a politically correct job.
2) They may be envious that Swish can "get away" with being so lively and expressive.
3) Typical Yankees hate; I don't recall him being hated with the A's.
4) They may believe that someone who is so enthusiastic, down to earth, and actually nice to everyone is a phony.

Haters gonna hate.

You must be a joykiller at parties if you're going to hate on Swish.

I actually see him as an enlightened human being who strives to be positive and an inspiration. Sure you can see he's immature, but he loves the game- genuinely.

Those who hate on him probably suck the energy out of a room or message board thread with their sarcasm and negativity.


Or, to some of the people who have met him and don't just worship him from their La-Z-Boys, he comes across as kind of an #######. Nah, that "haters gonna hate" explanation has gotta be the only possible reason.

   20. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4155622)
I’m a Yankee fan and while I appreciate Nick Swisher’s contributions to the team, I am not fond of Nick Swisher the person/character. His enthusiasm is just so over the top that I can’t help but feel it is manufactured and that irks me.
   21. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4155634)
The difference between the first two in the poll is that Pierzynski revels in being disliked, while Rodriguez wants people to like him, but doesn't seem to understand how to do so. That's really sad...
   22. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4155643)
I’m a Yankee fan and while I appreciate Nick Swisher’s contributions to the team, I am not fond of Nick Swisher the person/character. His enthusiasm is just so over the top that I can’t help but feel it is manufactured and that irks me.

If it's indeed manufactured, then he's pretty damn good at faking it, because he shows the same broad grin everywhere he is on the field, both to his grandmother after he reaches base and to his teammates in the outfield and on the bench. That's not the sort of m.o. you'd see from plastic saints like Steve Garvey.
   23. JJ1986 Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4155646)
Swisher's also married to a celebrity. That might bug people.
   24. DKDC Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4155654)
They aren't fondly known as "America's Team" for nothing.


FTFY.

With the exception of a few glimpses here and there, we don't really get to see behind the curtain on what type of people these guys really are. I freely admit that I probably "sports hate" some players who are perfectly likable and friendly and solid people in their daily lives.

That said, I don't like Nick Swisher and I think he's a whiny bum.
   25. JuanGone..except1game Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4155657)
I’m a Yankee fan and while I appreciate Nick Swisher’s contributions to the team, I am not fond of Nick Swisher the person/character. His enthusiasm is just so over the top that I can’t help but feel it is manufactured and that irks me.


Swisher seems like overly excited ######### at the gym to me. Stop screaming after you've hit a new high with your bench press, stop calling me "bro" and please don't start back-slapping everyone in the locker room to tell us all what a great workout you have. Act like you've been there before kid.
   26. Ryan Lind Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4155661)
Re Swisher. Have you ever worked with someone with a lot of "enfhusiasm"? I can see it.
   27. villageidiom Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4155665)
A-Rod and Joba I can see, but if you don't appreciate Nick Swisher's obvious enthusiasm for the game, you either hate baseball or just hate the Yankees.
I appreciate Swisher's obvious enthusiasm for the game. One can be both enthusiastic for the game and a tool.

The issue with Swisher doesn't appear to be his enthusiasm per se. I can easily see Swisher being the guy who won't leave other people alone. If a baseball game were a party, you would be making moves on someone you're interested in, when Swisher would barge in and try to get you to participate right now in a group sing-a-long to "Red Solo Cup", which just played like 10 minutes ago but he's gonna put it back on. You don't punch him in the face because you know he's just a bit overenthusiastic and means nothing by it, but you still think he needs to be punched in the face.

When the unnamed player says Swisher is always trying to "'bro' it down", and how exhausting it is to be around him, that's what I picture.
   28. baudib Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4155668)
This survey is B.S. I'm pretty sure something close to 100% of baseball players hate A.J. Maybe the 1/3 was just in the White Sox clubhouse.
   29. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4155674)
I hate the Yankees, I like Swisher and I can understand why some may hate him. I think the description of him as a guy a little too excited in the gym is a pretty good one.

Pierzynski...I mean that guy is like the Babe Ruth of this ####.
   30. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4155675)

Swisher's also married to a celebrity. That might bug people.


I'm a big baseball fan and I had no idea. And when I looked her up, I had never heard of her.

Now Brad Penny, I hate that guy.
   31. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4155679)
voted by 100 big-league baseball players. . .

The overwhelming majority of the players didn't participate. So the A-Rod "rating" is based on 10 players. Few here would probably do as well if their entire workplace were similarly surveyed.
   32. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4155680)
The overwhelming majority of the players didn't participate. So the A-Rod "rating" is based on 10 players. Few here would probably do as well if their entire workplace were similarly surveyed.


Baloney. I have no doubt I could get more than 10 people in my office to say they think I'm a dink.
   33. eddieot Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4155690)
They're all just jealous that John Sterling calls him Swishalicious.
   34. Bitter Mouse Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4155691)

Let me just say I love AJ. He was unlikable when on my Twins and has steadily evolved into the Platonic ideal of hateable players. MLB will be a sadder and emptier place without him to boo. It's AJ's world, we are just booing in it.
   35. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4155696)
I still don't get why Toronto is such an unwelcome city to play for. Its an awesome city. I'd much rather play there than like Cincinnati (no offense to Cincy) or even KC. Just anti-Canadian bias?
   36. RJ in TO Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4155697)
I still don't get why Toronto is such an unwelcome city to play for.

If I were to guess, I'd say it had to do with the travel. Anytime a team is flying in and out of the city, they have to clear customs, which lengthens the travel day, and can generally just be a big pain in the ass.

EDIT: Also, perceived differences in the taxation rates.
   37. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4155705)
Royals third least-favorite team to play for. Awesome work Glass family.


Not really. They have a long way to go before they're as undesirable as Oakland. They really need to take it up a notch before they can be mentioned in the same breath as us. Nobody is close to us in undesirability.
   38. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4155728)

Not really. They have a long way to go before they're as undesirable as Oakland.


Jesus Christ, we can't win anything.
   39. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4155743)
Re Swisher. Have you ever worked with someone with a lot of "enfhusiasm"? I can see it.

Joe Dimaggio, Frankie Crosetti and Tony Lazzeri once drove to Spring training from San Francisco to Florida, and the only words they allegedly ever spoke during the entire trip were "your turn to drive" and "pass the ketchup". Those famous "strong, silent" types may be the salt of the Earth underneath their air of mystery, but they make me a lot more appreciative of the Swishers of the world.
   40. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4155759)

I'm a big baseball fan and I had no idea. And when I looked her up, I had never heard of her.


Same here. Who? Of course, her fans -- assuming there's more than one, as seems likely, though I know TV viewer numbers aren't what they used to be -- have probably never heard of Swisher.
   41. Srul Itza Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4155768)
How could people have missed this tidbit:

"Marlins skipper Ozzie Guillen, who used to manage Pierzynski in Chicago, was voted the least respected manager, grabbing 36 percent of the votes."

For those who are shocked that he took the top spot from Bobby V, don't be too upset, he came in second:

Who is the least respected manager?
1. Ozzie Guillen (Marlins), 36 percent
2. Bobby Valentine (Red Sox), 14 percent
3. Manny Acta (Indians), 5 percent
   42. John DiFool2 Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4155777)
I'd like to know who is overrating Joba, exactly, and why. I mean overrated players usually do certain things which seem flashy or stand out, but don't necessarily add value to their teams-and they probably have to get a lot of playing in the first place to get said inflated rep in the first place. I'd say 99% of all fans, fellow players, and execs all have a perfectly accurate appraisal of Joba-a big guy with a good fastball who can't stay healthy.
   43. shoewizard Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4155781)
I wonder if Pierzynski has thought much about the fact that his general deucebaggery has probably cost him a chance to have much of a career in MLB after his playing days are over.

He'll probably get a job at ESPN.
   44. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4155790)
I wonder if Pierzynski has thought much about the fact that his general deucebaggery has probably cost him a chance to have much of a career in MLB after his playing days are over.

He'll probably get a job at ESPN.


Or post on BTF a lot.
   45. UCCF Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4155800)
Or post on BTF a lot.

Let's hope the archives still don't work.
   46. Graham & the 15-win "ARod Vortex of suck" Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4155803)
I've always thought Manny Acta was a competent manager. Have I not paid enough attention to him?
   47. Swedish Chef Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4155807)
If I were to guess, I'd say it had to do with the travel. Anytime a team is flying in and out of the city, they have to clear customs, which lengthens the travel day, and can generally just be a big pain in the ass.

I hate Canadian customs so much. Paperwork for transfer passengers, really? I can only assume that they have outsourced the ####### thing to Rogers.
   48. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:38 PM (#4155809)
Well, maybe an alien quasi-American like Petunia could hate the Yanks, but he's an exception.

Harrumph.

MCoA and Clapper are right. The only statistically significant result in the "hated players" poll is AJ.

Swisher is definitely a "bro". When with the A's, while Giambi was taking limos full of models to the Gold Club and what have you, Swisher would just hang out drinking PBR at Walnut Creek dive bars. He really IS that guy you're all describing.
   49. Eric P. Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4155823)
I still don't get why Toronto is such an unwelcome city to play for.


In addition to everything RJ mentions, the Skydome is a problem, too. They're one of the few teams still not playing on grass and the place is usually half full with crowds that care more about doing the wave or getting a free slice of lousy Pizza Pizza than getting invested in the game.
   50. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: June 13, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4155834)
I'd be really surprised if Swisher (or any baseball player at all) manufactures his enthusiasm. We all "live with" these players for so many hours every year; I have to think it would be difficult to maintain that. I could see a "game face" argument (I'm a slightly different dude at work than at home), but not a radical personality change.
   51. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: June 13, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4155842)
“If Joba didn’t play in New York, no one would know him,” one player said.



This is persistent, and unfair.

I would speculate that if any reliever had debuted with a 1221 ERA+ in a pennant race in his first year, he'd have gotten leaguewide attention. Joba today is what I would call "post-hype", and I agree with #42.
   52. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4155852)
I'd be really surprised if Swisher (or any baseball player at all) manufactures his enthusiasm. We all "live with" these players for so many hours every year; I have to think it would be difficult to maintain that. I could see a "game face" argument (I'm a slightly different dude at work than at home), but not a radical personality change.
I agree with this, and everything about Swisher--like the story in Moneyball when he asked the scouts about Chuck Finley getting beaten up by Tawney Kitaen makes me think that's just him. Now, if you want to say that would get pretty tiresome pretty quickly, I certainly agree.
   53. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: June 13, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4155913)
AJ's ####### awesome. One of two Sox players left from the '05 team, 131 OPS+ as a 35 year old, catching one of the best pitching staffs in the AL (did you know Chris Sale has the lowest ERA in the league?).

Maybe he's a huge dick but it seems weird that he'd be employed by the same team for almost a decade if he was such an ####### toward his teammates.
   54. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4155919)
Maybe he's a huge dick but it seems weird that he'd be employed by the same team for almost a decade if he was such an ####### toward his teammates.
If I had Benito Mussolini and Hitler and Hirohito on my team, and they could execute the double steal and hit sacrifice fly balls, they'd be in my lineup.
--Billy Martin

I suspect all the stuff in your first paragraph outweighs everything else. I'm sure the second he stops being an effective performer AJ gets the boot though.
   55. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: June 13, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4155929)
I'm sure the second he stops being an effective performer AJ gets the boot though.


Yeah but you can say the same thing for about 95% of ballplayers in the major leagues.
   56. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: June 13, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4155962)
I think AJ is on the Manny Ramirez™ glidepath out of the majors.
   57. Jerry Lumpe Rutherford (Dan Lee) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4155970)
I've always thought Manny Acta was a competent manager. Have I not paid enough attention to him?
Concur. I don't have any real problem with him. He's utterly unoffensive in just about every way.

I'm surprised he's ahead of Eric Wedge, whose rah-rah man management stuff would probably get old in about three seconds. Wedge strikes me as an extremely nice man, but I wouldn't want him to be my boss.
   58. Jack Keefe Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4155976)
Well Al they are all up set that my old pal AJ did not get more votes in the Hateful Player Pole. I called up AJ to tell him that every 1 hates him and Ozzie Guillen too. And you know Al I thought AJ would be a little more Concerned. So every 1 hates me, Keefe? asked AJ. Looks like it Pal I said. Keefe said AJ I wish that all baseball fans had but one Neck so that I could cut it. I wish that all baseball fans had but one shoe so I could give it a Hot Foot. I wish that all baseball fans had but one waistband so that I could wash it in storebrand laundry detergent and make it pucker uncomfortably. AJ I said you have good Koalaties. You like dogs. What if you saw a lost little Dog AJ said I. You would not hurt it. You would not dowse its Kibbles with Hot Sauce. You might drive it out to Kankakee and tie it to a five bar Gate but you would call the Espy CA once you were back on the Innerstate. You must let people see this side of you Pal. Al I am hurt. I can see hating Nick Swishy and a Rod but any 1 who hates AJ Pierogi should take a good look in the Mere you know what they say Youre Velcrow and Im Not Velcrow any thing you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
   59. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4155978)
Swisher's also married to a celebrity. That might bug people.
I had a TV crush on Swisher's wife long before she became Swisher's wife, but that douche went and married her so I hate him.

Chicago voted best groupies by a wide margin...
Slumpbusters.
   60. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4155979)
Maybe he's a huge dick but it seems weird that he'd be employed by the same team for almost a decade if he was such an ####### toward his teammates.
"Maybe" he's a huge dick? Exactly what other explanation do you have for 34 of 100 ballplayers independently submitting his name when asked who is the biggest ####### in the sport?
   61. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4155982)
In a Men’s Journal survey of 100 Major League Baseball players, White Sox catcher A.J. Pierzynski was voted “most hated player” with 34% of the votes. “He likes to talk a lot of sh**, and I’ve heard he’s a bad teammate,” one National League pitcher tells Men’s Journal. “He’s been a prick to guys on his own pitching staff. Basically, if you haven’t got five years in the big leagues, he treats you like you’re a peasant. He’s that kind of guy.”


I'm sure Brett Tomko has been teammates with a lot of current National League pitchers.
   62. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:16 PM (#4155984)

I would speculate that if any reliever had debuted with a 1221 ERA+ in a pennant race in his first year, he'd have gotten leaguewide attention. Joba today is what I would call "post-hype", and I agree with #42.


Alexi Ogando posted a 348 ERA+ in a pennant race his first year and profiles similarly - a reliever you hope can someday start. But there are no "Alexi Rules" or hand-wringing over what will become of Ogando.

I don't think Joba is overrated so much as over-covered for someone who's claim to fame is 24 innings they threw five years ago.
   63. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4155987)
You're blaming Joba for the New York press attention to his usage, controlled by the Yankee front office?

We're in the same place that he was paid attention to too much... in 2007. But I don't think that even the most fervent fanboy thinks that the 2007 Joba is walking through the door anytime soon.
   64. RJ in TO Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4155994)
"Maybe" he's a huge dick? Exactly what other explanation do you have for 34 of 100 ballplayers independently submitting his name when asked who is the biggest ####### in the sport?


It's not like this is the first time this has been mentioned as well. He's been the winner in assorted polls like this for years, and was also viewed as being a world class jerk when he was with San Fran too.
   65. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4155998)
"Maybe" he's a huge dick? Exactly what other explanation do you have for 34 of 100 ballplayers independently submitting his name when asked who is the biggest ####### in the sport?


I dunno, maybe Men's Journal is just making #### up?
   66. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4156005)

You're blaming Joba for the New York press attention to his usage, controlled by the Yankee front office?


I'm not blaming him for anything. Those that are "overrated" rarely have anything to do with "earning" that label. Take Tim Tebow, for example. Its not really his fault he gets so much attention. I'm just saying if Joba was drafted by the Reds, he'd be just another reliever that has been hurt. Its the Yankees, I get it, its a bigger media spotlight.
   67. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4156006)
Exactly what other explanation do you have for 34 of 100 ballplayers independently submitting his name when asked who is the biggest ####### in the sport?

If 650 players passed entirely on the survey, I'm not sure how much weight you give 34 of 100 haters.
   68. JJ1986 Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4156007)
Alexi Ogando posted a 348 ERA+ in a pennant race his first year and profiles similarly - a reliever you hope can someday start. But there are no "Alexi Rules" or hand-wringing over what will become of Ogando.


Joba was 21. Alexi was 26.
   69. Nasty Nate Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4156012)
You're blaming Joba for the New York press attention to his usage, controlled by the Yankee front office?


Where does he ever blame Joba in that post?

Joba was over-covered for a few years, but he is probably not over-rated anymore.
   70. asdf1234 Posted: June 13, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4156014)
I'd be interested to see how Pierzysnki would score on Hare's Psychopathy test. Has that Conte story ever been confirmed?
   71. madvillain Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4156021)
“He’s been a prick to guys on his own pitching staff. Basically, if you haven’t got five years in the big leagues, he treats you like you’re a peasant. He’s that kind of guy.”


The Guillen, Konerko, AJ led Sox had a rep for this. If you were a rookie or just not part of the "club" (read: either one of the old latin guys or one of the old white guys) you were ostracized in the clubhouse. Maybe that's what happened to Swisher when he played there, or maybe he just had really shitty babip luck that year. Probably a bit of both.

As for AJ specifically, he's almost criminally under rated as far as on-field performance. He's the closest thing you can get to an iron man at catcher. Every year he gives you 130 or so games behind the plate, a 280/320/400 line, and decent defense, factoring in pitch framing and pitch calling as positives and lack of an arm a big negative.

Fangraphs has him at 22.3 WAR for his career. This year he's having a career year, hitting 297/343/528 for a 130rc+.

He might be a dick, but he's a useful dick, and as a Sox fan, he's our useful dick.
   72. RJ in TO Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4156024)
From wiki:

Pierzynski is known for having a strong and colorful personality, a fact he acknowledges. During his turn at the microphone following the White Sox victory parade in 2005, he thanked team personnel "for putting up with me." His Chicago manager, Ozzie Guillen, summed up the situation as, "If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less."
   73. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:06 PM (#4156026)
Basically, if you haven’t got five years in the big leagues, he treats you like you’re a peasant. He’s that kind of guy.”

So...Cole Hamels, then?
   74. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4156029)
But I don't think that even the most fervent fanboy thinks that the 2007 Joba is walking through the door anytime soon.


And if he did, he'd be covered with midges, which would be gross.

I don't think Joba is so much overrated as he is overexposed. Nobody thinks he's much more than a decent middle reliever. But everyone is sick of hearing about him.

   75. Greg K Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:13 PM (#4156034)
Frankly I'd forgotten Chamberlain existed. Has he pitched this season? Is he hurt?

EDIT: Oh right the trampoline incident! Man, I have a shitty memory.

DOUBLE EDIT: This reminds me of the time in April when I couldn't think of any Washington OF prospects off the top of my head. Or it would if I could remember that far back.
   76. Mayor Blomberg Posted: June 13, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4156035)
Joba  1221 ERA0.750 WHIP 4.5 H/9 2.3 BB/9 12.8 K/9 5.67 BB/9
Alexi  348 ERA
1.128 WHIP 6.7 H/9 3.5 BB/9  8.4 K/9 2.44 BB/


One of these is significantly more impressive than the other, age aside.
   77. zenbitz Posted: June 13, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4156085)
said AJ I wish that all baseball fans had but one Neck so that I could cut it.


Quoted for the awesomeness of comparing Pierzysnki to Caligula.
   78. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: June 13, 2012 at 08:12 PM (#4156115)
One of these is significantly more impressive than the other, age aside.

Not to mention the visual impact. Ogando has good stuff but Joba's stuff looked every bit as incredible as his statline.

I'm a Yankee fan and find Swisher incredibly annoying. It's not just the overly demonstrative stuff, it's just his whole demeanor, how he carries himself. Everything is so exaggerated. He's too twitchy, too smiley. I don't think it's fake, I think it's just how he is, and I can't stand it.
   79. caprules Posted: June 13, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4156131)
As RJ notes, this has come up for discussion before. As 70 mentions, there is the story that he kneed Conte when Conte was trying to help him.

I believe there is another story that when he was with the Twins a pitcher came to him to do prep for a game, and AJ told him to f off because he was busy playing video games.
   80. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: June 13, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4156150)
Swisher is enlightened AND immature? In the same post!
   81. MC Skat Kat kann es eigentlich kaum erwarten Posted: June 13, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4156265)
Swisher is enlightened AND immature? In the same post!

Maturity is the dimming of our inner light. Swisher's childishness shines brightly.
   82. Ron J Posted: June 13, 2012 at 10:45 PM (#4156280)
The funny thing about AJ is that while he's an all-time great when it comes to baseball, he wouldn't even merit mention as a jerk if he was a soccer player. (discussion of this in one of the soccer threads)

EDIT: That's a little harsh on a man who takes his craft seriously. Given the opportunity to study with a Joey Barton I'm sure he could lift his game. Even without the benefit of a great role model he almost has the required personality for a Manchester City striker.
   83. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: June 13, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4156282)
The difference between the first two in the poll is that Pierzynski revels in being disliked, while Rodriguez wants people to like him, but doesn't seem to understand how to do so. That's really sad...


No, the difference between the first two in the poll is a factor of 3.4, and it's actually quite impressive to lap the field twice like that.
   84. shoewizard Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4156298)
He might be a dick, but he's a useful dick


This sounds like something my wife would say
   85. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 13, 2012 at 11:54 PM (#4156309)
I'm a Yankee fan and find Swisher incredibly annoying. It's not just the overly demonstrative stuff, it's just his whole demeanor, how he carries himself. Everything is so exaggerated. He's too twitchy, too smiley. I don't think it's fake, I think it's just how he is, and I can't stand it.

And did you see that he dared to laugh at himself tonight when he struck out at a 58 ft. breaking ball in the dirt and wound up on first when the pitch got away from the catcher! Swisher's felonious assaults against baseball's dignity just keep on piling up, and I want to know WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE????
   86. SuperGrover Posted: June 14, 2012 at 01:10 AM (#4156365)
Re: Swisher

Keep in mind, he was so loathed in Chicago that he was benched for the corpse of Ken Griffey Jr. Swisher is a tool. He reminds me of the guy who throws elbows and calls charges in pickup basketball.
   87. SuperGrover Posted: June 14, 2012 at 01:14 AM (#4156367)
Chicago voted best groupies by a wide margin...

Slumpbusters.


Evidently you've never been to Lincoln Park after a Cubs game. While I did appreciate the ASU campus in spring training more, it's pretty freaking fantastic.
   88. tjm1 Posted: June 14, 2012 at 01:26 AM (#4156370)
Regarding Swisher: ballplayers don't hate the extroverts. They took a poll like this maybe 5 years ago, and the friendliest player in baseball, by an overwhelming margin, was voted to be Sean Casey. Casey is also a total extrovert, but was perceived as genuine and likeable.

   89. RollingWave Posted: June 14, 2012 at 04:09 AM (#4156418)
I can't believe Swisher's act is more hated than that shaved gurriella Jose Valverde. or the albino version of him.. Jonothan Papalbon.

I'm going to hazard a guess that some of the hate comes from his guest appearance on those TV shows...

As for Joba, there's pre-2008 Joba and then there's post 2008 Joba....
   90. The NeverEnding Torii (oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh) Posted: June 14, 2012 at 04:34 AM (#4156424)
I was at a party a few years ago where some guy I had never met before was instantly joking around like he knew me, despite the fact that we weren't really hitting it off or finding things in common or anything. I couldn't escape him. Within minutes, he had given me a nickname and yelled it at me whenever I was within 20 feet of him for the rest of the night. I don't remember what it was. Let's say it was something like RED CUP GUY, because it was something that random and dumb. I believe he also said "Dude, you have GOT to see Eurotrip!" to me 7 times and he said the sentence "I don't know HOW Family Guy gets away with it, man!" more than once.

Swisher seems like that guy.
   91. Moeball Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4156916)
Well, the really sad thing is that because some people are mostly or partly jerks personality-wise, other stuff just gets lost in the shuffle.

EXAMPLE 1: A-Rod is cloying and often looks like he's trying too hard to get people to like him, which basically rubs everybody the wrong way because it's not authentic. In addition, his stock went way south after The Slap in the '04 ALCS, particularly in the baseball community because it looked girly and not manly, which is suicidal in the jock world. Lots of other players probably also didn't take kindly to his getting the mega-deal with Texas, so there are lots of reasons other players around the league may not like him.

Of course, A-Rod also came to the Yankees as:

a) a clearly better offensive player than Derek Jeter
b) a vastly better defensive shortstop than Derek Jeter

Yet he was still willing to make the switch to 3B so that Captain No-Range wouldn't get his precious nose out of joint.

Nobody seems to remember that. Remind me, which one is the better teammate to have?

EXAMPLE 2:

Kobe Bryant is, well, not a very likeable person. Ask his wife for character references. We know this. He also has been known at times as a ball hog on the court, which surely rubs teammates the wrong way. Meanwhile, Shaquille Oneal is Mr. Smiley-Face, always laughing and having a good time. Everybody loves Shaq!

Except we forget that Kobe has the hellacious work ethic that continues in the off-season as well as during the season, and that Shaq is one of the laziest players ever with virtually no work ethic whatsoever (as Phil Jackson publicly confirmed on many occasions).

We live in a world where sacrifing personal gain for the chemistry of the team is not valued; neither is working hard to get ahead. We want - no, we demand - instant gratification of everything we desire without having to work for anything.

We want our superstar athletes to be the same way. Form is way more important than function.

I'm climbing down from my soapbox now as I've gotta go puke somewhere.

   92. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4156927)

One of these is significantly more impressive than the other, age aside.


One was also in just 24 innings.
   93. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 14, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4156985)
We live in a world where sacrificing personal gain for the chemistry of the team is not valued;

You obviously need to go to The Land of the Productive Out, which is found wherever managers and announcers congregate.
   94. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: June 16, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4159067)
And did you see that he dared to laugh at himself tonight when he struck out at a 58 ft. breaking ball in the dirt and wound up on first when the pitch got away from the catcher!

And did you see him laughing yesterday after failing to catch a flyball? I wanted to pop him right in the grill. HAHAHA I MISSED THE BALL. #### you, Swisher.
   95. KT's Pot Arb Posted: June 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4159075)
We live in a world where sacrifing personal gain for the chemistry of the team is not valued;


Which is why Mr. "Take every clutch shot and miss most of them" Kobe is beloved by Lakers fans.

Personally, I liked Shaq. If he really was that lazy, it's a wonder because he was far more valuable during his career than Kobe has been in his. I also suspect when you are 300lbs you might like to pace your workouts more to reduce wear and tear on your body.

And laziest? Hell, have you ever even heard of Charles Barkley?
   96. McCoy Posted: June 16, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4159080)
Nobody seems to remember that.

Really? Because it gets brought up all the time.
   97. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: June 17, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4159086)
And did you see that he dared to laugh at himself tonight when he struck out at a 58 ft. breaking ball in the dirt and wound up on first when the pitch got away from the catcher!

And did you see him laughing yesterday after failing to catch a flyball? I wanted to pop him right in the grill. HAHAHA I MISSED THE BALL. #### you, Swisher.


So I guess it's better to fixate on what you can't do anything about than to try to make sure it doesn't happen again. Makes at least as much sense as screaming at the official scorer about an error call that cost you a hit.

Look, different players have different ways of channeling their emotions and focusing, and what worked for Paul O'Neill or Mickey Mantle doesn't necessarily translate to everyone else. Obviously on balance Swisher's approach has worked for him.
   98. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM (#4159088)
I’m a Yankee fan and while I appreciate Nick Swisher’s contributions to the team, I am not fond of Nick Swisher the person/character. His enthusiasm is just so over the top that I can’t help but feel it is manufactured and that irks me.


I doubt it's manufactured. A friend of mine told me that he saw Swisher at a restaurant here in NYC a couple months ago. Swisher was with his wife. My friend went up to him and asked him about something stupid (I can't remember what) and Swisher was very engaging, enthusiastic, "bro'd" him up and down, etc. Wasn't even bothered about being approached in the restaurant.

I can imagine he's this enthusiastic in every aspect of his life. And, yes, I would find it quite annoying.
   99. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: June 17, 2012 at 01:15 AM (#4159102)
That was a first rate Keefe.

I like Swisher a ton. I can see how he might grate on you if you had to work with him, but as a fan he's one of my favorites.
   100. BDC Posted: June 17, 2012 at 08:32 AM (#4159122)
laziest? Hell, have you ever even heard of Charles Barkley?

Or Allen Iverson – often reviled as someone who simply would not practice; then would go out and play like a madman on the court; often reviled as selfish; and then it's also hard to argue that he cost his teams anything by his selfishness, and even perhaps took them a rung above where they belonged by just playing harder than his opponents. This is a complicated issue, because "selfish" and "lazy" take on so many social and moral dimensions. Very few athletes have any success by actually being lazy during competition. Ruben Sierra had a rep as one of the sulkiest and whiniest players, and yet he was always busting his rear end on the field. Lenny Dykstra had appalling training habits and was as dumb as two planks laid end to end, and he too played like his jock was full of fire ants. This is very subjective territory.

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