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Friday, December 01, 2017

Aaron Boone is Yankees’ new manager | MLB.com

We have a winner.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 01, 2017 at 09:06 PM | 84 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: aaron boone, manager, yankees

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   1. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 01, 2017 at 11:31 PM (#5584611)
And no one would ever have to watch one of his little comedy skits again.
   2. Howie Menckel Posted: December 01, 2017 at 11:37 PM (#5584613)
Aaron F. Boone
   3. JJ1986 Posted: December 01, 2017 at 11:43 PM (#5584615)
Boone seems like the most boring guy in the world, so fitting choice.
   4. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 01, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5584618)
Was this expected? He doesn't seem like the most dynamic guy around, so I guess that suits.

Seems an odd choice to me. Maybe Andy, Snapper or one of the many Yankees guys here can enlighten us to their thoughts.

Then again I thought getting rid of Girardi was a poor move.
   5. madvillain Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:20 AM (#5584620)
I don't get this one. He's never managed at any level. And you fired a perfectly cromulent manager for this? OK then.
   6. ajnrules Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:22 AM (#5584621)
When I saw a report that the search was down to Aaron Boone and Hensley Meulens, I knew that Boone had it in the bag.
   7. Lars6788 Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:31 AM (#5584624)
I get how hiring a guy with no experience coaches / managing is easier for the FO, since they will basically have more say in on-field, managerial moves vs. hiring a guy who has experience, has a 'bigger' personality who is likely to push back at decisions.

Boone isn't intended to be a spineless puppet, but the Yankees FO probably feels with the talent on the field, like you can plug and play Boone and be somewhat successful.
   8. madvillain Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:43 AM (#5584629)
Boone isn't intended to be a spineless puppet, but the Yankees FO probably feels with the talent on the field, like you can plug and play Boone and be somewhat successful.


Brad Ausmus 2.0 imo.
   9. TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky" Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:45 AM (#5584630)
Seriously, does Boone get this job if he hadn't hit that home run in 2002?
   10. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:48 AM (#5584631)
I think a lot of Yankee fans share the sentiments in #4 & 5. Getting rid of Girardi to hire a guy with no coaching or managing experience at any level is perplexingly. Some speak very highly of Boone, so maybe he will surprise, or get lucky, but the reasoning for the decisions here seems elusive. Boone is landing in a pretty good situation - the Yankees could be even better than 2017 - so he's starting his career far better than most 1st-time managers.
   11. djordan Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:48 AM (#5584632)
#7, I think you're being incredibly polite.

My guess is you will find the terms "Aaron Boone" and "rubber stamp" back-to-back much more often on Google a year from now than you do today.
   12. Leroy Kincaid Posted: December 02, 2017 at 07:28 AM (#5584659)
Seriously, does Boone get this job if he hadn't hit that home run in 2002?


The one he hit against Montreal on April 5th? Or at Atlanta on May 25th? There are 26 to choose from.
   13. Tony S Posted: December 02, 2017 at 07:44 AM (#5584660)

#10 -- That cuts both ways. Boone is taking over a highly-talented team, but the expectations are also sky-high. If the Yankees don't win 95 games and/or make the World Series, his life is going to be miserable.

   14. villageidiom Posted: December 02, 2017 at 07:55 AM (#5584661)
If they chose him to get him out of a broadcast booth to be kind to their audience, they should have hired John Sterling instead.
   15. Blastin Posted: December 02, 2017 at 08:12 AM (#5584662)
I wanted Henley. 5 languages sounds like the whole communication thing they were going for (and, as a black guy, I thought a black manager would be cool).

Chances are he won't be a disaster. Maybe he'll be Torre in the sense that everyone laughed at that too.

But man is this not exactly exciting.

That said, the team should be exciting so whatever.
   16. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 09:16 AM (#5584666)
I still don't know why they got rid of Girardi. He's won with veterans, with rookies, with crappy lineups and good ones, he shepherded Judge through a historic rookie season, he squeezed the last good innings out of Sabathia like dirty water out of a mop . . . and now they've hired a broadcaster to manage the team? What?
   17. Jay Seaver Posted: December 02, 2017 at 09:40 AM (#5584670)
I can sort of get the argument that Girardi is not right for a young team like the Yankees are fielding; he's got a history of getting down on guys, and the situation with Gary Sanchez last year maybe indicated that he might be inclined to give up rather that ride through growing pains (obviously, you want to win games most of all, but putting people in a doghouse seldom helps that). But if that's the rationale, I'm not sure that there's any reason to believe Boone would be better.

As a Red Sox fan, I certainly hope it turns out that way. I'll happily take any case of the Yankees shooting themselves in the foot even if it's likely not a mortal wound.
   18. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: December 02, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5584675)
Can't be a worse manager than his father.
   19. winnipegwhip Posted: December 02, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5584677)
His strategy is not to overmanage but to wait "for the ghosts to show up eventually."
   20. Lassus Posted: December 02, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5584678)
I wanted Henley.

Blastin', I'm sorry they didn't hire who you'd like, but I think it's about... forgiveness.




Be here all week.
   21. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 02, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5584688)
I was hoping for Beltran, but at least according to the Times story on his hiring, Boone's "a candidate who has long been known as a skilled communicator."** Not necessarily the worst choice, but I think the Yankees' fate is more likely to hinge on Aaron Judge, Gleyber Torres and the starting pitchers than it will be with their manager.

** According to that same story, Cashman was also impressed when Boone owned up to the reason (basketball) behind his season-ending injury before the 2004 season, which cost him nearly all of his salary because of the prohibition against basketball playing in his contract. It's not beyond belief that this might have given him an extra edge in Cashman's final decision.
   22. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 02, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5584704)
I still don't know why they got rid of Girardi.


His contract was up. It was 4/$16M. Offering him fewer years or less $/year would have played as "disrespecting" him. I agree with the consensus that Girardi was a perfectly cromulent manager, and yeah, it's couch cushion money for the Yankees, but if I'm Cashman I wouldn't want to deal with that kind of situation either. I'm happier with just making a clean break than I would have been with a lengthy faux-negotiation with each side trying to make the other look like the bad guy.

His relationships with both the players and the FO were also reportedly deteriorating. If you think they should have kept him, fine. But it really isn't hard to understand why they didn't.

I'm hoping that "great interview" is a euphemism for "agreed to manage the way the analytics department tells him to."

Anyway, I think they lead the league in Aarons now, although Philly and Toronto are in the running.
   23. Renegade (((JE))) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5584705)
If they chose him to get him out of a broadcast booth to be kind to their audience, they should have hired John Sterling instead.
I hope there's still room on the coaching staff for Jessica Mendoza and Paul O'Neill.
   24. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:33 PM (#5584748)
Seems an odd choice to me. Maybe Andy, Snapper or one of the many Yankees guys here can enlighten us to their thoughts.

Then again I thought getting rid of Girardi was a poor move.


Makes no sense at all to me.

I agree on Girardi. Once he was gone I wanted Meulens or Thompson. You know, somebody with some actual freaking experience.

This has disaster written all over it.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:35 PM (#5584751)
I was hoping for Beltran,

Why would you want a totally inexperienced manager for a team that expects to be playing in October the next 5 years?

   26. Blastin Posted: December 02, 2017 at 12:52 PM (#5584759)
This has disaster written all over it.


Disasters are pretty rare. I am expecting mediocrity from him. And hey, maybe he won't run 2018's version of Clippard out there for as long as Girardi did.
   27. Rob_Wood Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:26 PM (#5584776)
Wait a minute, does this mean that those of us who are obsessed with commenting upon baseball broadcasters won't have Boone to kick around anymore?
   28. Tin Angel Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5584784)
Wait a minute, does this mean that those of us who are obsessed with commenting upon baseball broadcasters won't have Boone to kick around anymore?


Temporarily.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5584786)
I can sort of get the argument that Girardi is not right for a young team like the Yankees are fielding;


Yeah, maybe the next guy can finally tap the potential of Sanchez and Judge.

Guys have had this really annoying habit of playing better for Girardi than what they were expected to do. They're not likely to do anywhere close to as well with Boone or anyone else. I think letting him go was insane.
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:44 PM (#5584792)
Yeah, maybe the next guy can finally tap the potential of Sanchez and Judge.

Guys have had this really annoying habit of playing better for Girardi than what they were expected to do. They're not likely to do anywhere close to as well with Boone or anyone else. I think letting him go was insane.


Co-sign 100%.

It's a ridiculously reckless move to replace a known, above-average manager, with a complete unknown, on a team that intends to win the division next year.

I fear this is about Cashman's ego.
   31. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5584795)

Guys have had this really annoying habit of playing better for Girardi than what they were expected to do. They're not likely to do anywhere close to as well with Boone or anyone else. I think letting him go was insane.


Yeah. I know the Yanks underperformed their Pythag, but I look at this roster and don't see where any improvement is going to come from. Judge, Sanchez, Gregorius, Castro, Severino, Gardner, Hicks, Sabathia - all these guys seemed to be performing at or near the top of their abilities last year. I guess they could get some better play out of first base.
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:51 PM (#5584799)
Yeah. I know the Yanks underperformed their Pythag, but I look at this roster and don't see where any improvement is going to come from.

They had a 100-win pythag, they don't really need improvement.

But, you have to expect a lot better than a 4.74 ERA from Tanaka. They also will have Gray, Kahnle and Robertson all season.

The bullpen should be a lot better. Chapman should perform better, and Betances won't be allowed to walk the barkpark in high leverage situations with all the other good RPs they have.
   33. JC in DC Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5584803)
We're going to give a manager credit for guys outperforming "what they were expected to do" based on prognostications? That seems a bit over the top. I'm skeptical about Boone, but let's not go crazy on the other side in giving managers too much credit.

I don't think this is about Cashman's ego, but instead about the Kerr phenomenon, based on the Al Davis hypothesis: at some point, a person gets stale in the seat, and going to someone else who you've got reason to think is bright, forward-thinking, and knows the game, can be a real boost. There's a lot of suppositions in that, and therefore reason for skepticism, but it's not indefensible. Plus, as someone said above, his contract was up. This is as good a time as any to give this a shot.
   34. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 02, 2017 at 01:59 PM (#5584804)
I guess they could get some better play out of first base.


Ya think? OTOH, assuming Bird is healthy all year they need to make sure that they NEVER put the contact play on when he is the runner at third, or send him if there is even the smallest chance of a play at the plate.
   35. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:07 PM (#5584807)
I wanted Henley. 5 languages sounds like the whole communication thing they were going for (and, as a black guy, I thought a black manager would be cool).

Henley Meulens is black!?
   36. SoSH U at work Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:11 PM (#5584811)
We're going to give a manager credit for guys outperforming "what they were expected to do" based on prognostications?


Why the hell not? Aaron Judge has developed beyond what was reasonably forecast for him. So has Gary Sanchez. Didi is a better hitter than he was before coming to New York. Before that, Gardner did the same.

We routinely skewer managers for retarding or ruining the development of players. If that's acceptable, than it only stands to reason we recognize those managers who get guys to play up to their potential. It's a hell of a lot more important trait than whether they'll follow the GM's dictates on what the analytics department feeds him.
   37. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:14 PM (#5584815)
I look at this roster and don't see where any improvement is going to come from. Judge, Sanchez, Gregorius, Castro, Severino, Gardner, Hicks, Sabathia - all these guys seemed to be performing at or near the top of their abilities last year. I guess they could get some better play out of first base.

STFU! Those guys are going to be better in 2018. All of them! Or, perhaps more realistically, healthier. Sanchez, Gregorius, Castro & Hicks all missed significant time, as did Greg Bird who took all but the last few weeks of the season to get healthy, and we don't really know to what degree Judge's shoulder problem might have contributed to his slump. The Yanks would benefit from adding Two-Way Shohei Ohtani, but many of their current players may not have peaked yet, either.
   38. JC in DC Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5584817)
Aaron Judge has developed beyond what was reasonably forecast for him. So has Gary Sanchez. Didi is a better hitter than he was before coming to New York. Before that, Gardner did the same.


Yeah, no. I'm not giving Girardi ANY credit for any of that. That strikes me as sheer nonsense and total non sequitor. You think Girardi is working in the cage in some magical way with these guys? If Girardi is why these guys exceeded "reasonable forecasts", then he'll be the richest man in baseball very soon. I think more likely is Judge is peaking, just as analytics would suggest. Sanchez hasn't "exceeded" anything: he was supposed to be a great hitter. You'd think magical Girardi could've at least fixed what we knew: that he's not a good catcher. Didi slots in with Judge: he's peaking. He's made some nice adjustments to NY's short porch, and he's been great, but Girardi as why? How does that even work?
   39. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:30 PM (#5584825)
Didi Gregorius is a big left-handed hitter who can more than handle shortstop defensively. And not only that -- he also has an excellent contact rate! About his only deficiency is his plate discipline, which isn't an impediment as long as he's in a secondary offensive role. He and Hicks had to compensate for the absence of Bird most of the year, which is not an ideal scenario for the Yankees long-term. But it wouldn't exactly take Branch Rickey to guess that an exceptionally athletic middle-infielder who puts the bat on the ball with the platoon advantage for most of his AB's could out-perform his Minor League performance. (which peaked anyway right before the Diamondbacks called him up) There's nothing inexplicable about Didi being an above average shortstop, and he still has some room to grow offensively.

And to echo an earlier point: Gary Sanchez is arguably the best International catching prospect ever. Literally, ever. He signed for like a 5 million dollar bonus as a sixteen year old. This isn't exactly Joe Girardi molding a player. I also disagree with the assertion that Sanchez is not a good catcher. He struggled blocking balls and could use some development on the finer points of the position, but keep in mind the Yankees had a hard staff to catch last season: Jaime Garcia was a mess mechanically, Sonny Gray is all over the place with his command, Dellin Betances's command is steadily eroding... I think all of these factors contributed to Sanchez looking worse than he actually was, or will be. Let's not forget that Sonny Gray should be commanding his pitches better, especially his fastball, which he spikes at an insane rate for a good starting pitcher.

Also, when looking at next season's Yankees team, are we just pretending Gleyber Torres doesn't exist, or what? Pretty sure replacing Chase Headley with arguably the top prospect in baseball at some point before the middle of June will be an improvement, even though Headley has scrounged an average performance at times with the Yankees.
   40. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5584826)
You'd think magical Girardi could've at least fixed what we knew: that he's not a good catcher.


Hey, he tried shaming him into being a better catcher. What else is a manager supposed to do?

ISTM that anyone claiming that letting Girardi go is an unforced error on NYY's part should at least acknowledge that maybe throwing the young superstar under the bus was an unforced error on Girardi's part.
   41. SoSH U at work Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:33 PM (#5584830)
Yeah, no. I'm not giving Girardi ANY credit for any of that. That strikes me as sheer nonsense and total non sequitor. You think Girardi is working in the cage in some magical way with these guys? If Girardi is why these guys exceeded "reasonable forecasts", then he'll be the richest man in baseball very soon. I think more likely is Judge is peaking, just as analytics would suggest. Sanchez hasn't "exceeded" anything: he was supposed to be a great hitter. You'd think magical Girardi could've at least fixed what we knew: that he's not a good catcher. Didi slots in with Judge: he's peaking. He's made some nice adjustments to NY's short porch, and he's been great, but Girardi as why? How does that even work?



Managers/teams are routinely faulted for messing with the development of ballplayers. The flipside of that is the guy who gets his players to play at their potential. You can't believe one exists without the other. And if you don't believe the former exists (which would defintely put you at odds with most folks here), do you just assume that every ballplayer is as good as he could possibly be regardless the circumstances? That's patently ridiculous (and would suggest many GMs, including Brian Cashman, are wasting an awful lot of money).

But don't believe me. Dag's research shows that some managers consistently get better performance out of their players than forecasts say they should (and some who do the reverse).

   42. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5584831)
The bullpen should be a lot better. Chapman should perform better, and Betances won't be allowed to walk the barkpark in high leverage situations with all the other good RPs they have.


Good luck with that. I know Yankee fans were frustrated with Betances and Chapman, but the Yankee bullpen as a whole had the second lowest RA/game in the AL last year, despite pitching in a joke ballpark. I don't see how you can expect much better than that.
   43. SoSH U at work Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5584833)
ISTM that anyone claiming that letting Girardi go is an unforced error on NYY's part should at least acknowledge that maybe throwing the young superstar under the bus was an unforced error on Girardi's part.


Possibly. Whether it actually is depends on the personality of the ballplayer.

Sanchez is arguably the best International catching prospect ever. Literally, ever. He signed for like a 5 million dollar bonus as a sixteen year old. This isn't exactly Joe Girardi molding a player.


I'm not saying he took dog crap and turn it into gold, but Sanchez has hit better in the Bronx, by a lot, than he did in the minors. Was that really the expectation?
   44. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5584838)

And to echo an earlier point: Gary Sanchez is arguably the best International catching prospect ever. Literally, ever. He signed for like a 5 million dollar bonus as a sixteen year old. This isn't exactly Joe Girardi molding a player.


It's funny, then, that he couldn't ever crack the Top 30 on the various prospect lists.
   45. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:45 PM (#5584842)
To be fair, I'd expect Judge, Gregorious, Castro, Sabathia et al. to decline en masse even if Girardi had stuck around.
   46. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5584844)
Good luck with that. I know Yankee fans were frustrated with Betances and Chapman, but the Yankee bullpen as a whole had the second lowest RA/game in the AL last year, despite pitching in a joke ballpark. I don't see how you can expect much better than that.

They still blew a large number of leads that cost them games where they were highly likely to win. That's how they under-performed their pythag by 9 games.

The Yanks were 22nd in MLB in save %. The teams below them were almost all horrible. It was a very bad performance for a good team.
   47. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5584846)
Yeah, no. I'm not giving Girardi ANY credit for any of that. That strikes me as sheer nonsense and total non sequitor.

Seriously? A guy who was ranked in the 90's among prospects leads the league in WAR and his manager gets zero credit?

Completely unreasonable position.
   48. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:47 PM (#5584847)
I know Yankee fans were frustrated with Betances and Chapman...


Chapman got hurt. Girardi responded by overusing Clippard and underusing Betances, which was probably directly responsible for about half of the Yankee win deficit WRT pythag and indirectly responsible for Betances losing his command. I can't speak for all Yankee fans, but that's what I was frustrated with about the bullpen. I'm pretty sure Girardi would have kept running Clippard out there ahead of Kahnle and Robertson if not for the fact that Clippard was traded for Kahnle and Robertson. After all, we've got to get him right!
   49. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:49 PM (#5584848)
If this grand experiment fails, who should take the blame, Boone or Cashman?
   50. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:50 PM (#5584849)
It's funny, then, that he couldn't ever crack the Top 30 on the various prospect lists.


Than they underrated Trenton's park effect. .820 .OPS as an eighteen year old full-time catcher in A ball. He was a little disappointing in Trenton, but was still hitting for good power. His numbers in AAA were quite good, and like Cody Bellinger, Aaron Judge, hell, even Teoscar Hernandez last September, he has flashed way more power in the big-leagues than in the minors. Is the ball juiced? Do power hitters benefit from seeing more strikes from less erratic MLB pitchers? Who knows? But if Gary Sanchez wasn't making a prospect list's top thirty, than the list was clearly at fault, not the player. Besides, we can't just judge Minor League stat lines. They can be misleading for a host of reasons: untimely injuries, park effects, or just plain ole' development. Minor league stats are good indicators, but not the whole map by any means. I'm not trying to point this out to you, by any means -- I'm sure you've seen enough baseball for five lifetimes. But it seems to be what we're talking about.
   51. QLE Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5584852)
#23- Can the Yankees hire Joe Buck as the guy who fetches the coffee for everyone?
   52. JC in DC Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5584853)
What credit would he get that his hitting coach wouldn't get? Or his fielding coach? Does JG get credit for playing Judge? I guess so, but considering Cashman guaranteed he'd be playing before the season, how much credit?

I'm in the "managers get way too much credit" camp. I don't get how JG, or any manager, gets credit for the hitting improvement of their players.
   53. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: December 02, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5584855)
Seriously? A guy who was ranked in the 90's among prospects leads the league in WAR and his manager gets zero credit?


Woah, woah: Judge opened his stance for better pitch recognition. Are we going to give Girardi all the credit for that? Let's not forget Judge's work ethic and extraordinary natural talent. Its fair to give Girardi a little bit of credit. But to the point where I'd worry about Judge struggling without Girardi in the dugout? No way. This argument held way, way more weight when the Blue Jays switched from Cito Gaston to John Farrell after Bautista's breakout season. Because in that case Gaston actually advocated for the turn and burn approach that changed Bautista's career. And even in that more obviously impactful case, Bautista was perfectly fine with a new manager.
   54. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5584858)
Chapman got hurt. Girardi responded by overusing Clippard and underusing Betances, which was probably directly responsible for about half of the Yankee win deficit WRT pythag and indirectly responsible for Betances losing his command. I can't speak for all Yankee fans, but that's what I was frustrated with about the bullpen. I'm pretty sure Girardi would have kept running Clippard out there ahead of Kahnle and Robertson if not for the fact that Clippard was traded for Kahnle and Robertson. After all, we've got to get him right!

Umm, prior to Chapman's injury Betances had already walked 9 batters in 11.2 P. His ERA was a total fluke.

Betances has been mediocre since May 2016, with an ERA over 3.00. He ceased to be am elite RP a long time ago.

   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 02, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5584860)
Woah, woah: Judge opened his stance for better pitch recognition. Are we going to give Girardi all the credit for that? Let's not forget Judge's work ethic and extraordinary natural talent. Its fair to give Girardi a little bit of credit.

No one is saying Girardi gets all or even that much of the credit. But he certainly has to get credit.

Last year he had 3 young guys who were never even top 25 prospects rank in the top-30 players in ALL OF MLB. He has to get some credit.
   56. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: December 02, 2017 at 03:15 PM (#5584866)
He certainly deserves some credit, without a doubt. I don't think he should have been fired. For me, there has to be more to the story, some huge behind-the-scenes blow-up that doomed him no matter what happened, possibly related to Sanchez getting benched in Toronto.
   57. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 02, 2017 at 04:14 PM (#5584895)
ISTM that anyone claiming that letting Girardi go is an unforced error on NYY's part should at least acknowledge that maybe throwing the young superstar under the bus was an unforced error on Girardi's part.

I don't think Girardi threw Sanchez under the bus. He wouldn't have been doing Sanchez any favors by pretending the Passed Balls were no problem. That would just have generated even more stories about Girardi refusing to acknowledge the obvious and Sanchez being protected from criticism. In public, Girardi tried to put Sanchez's difficulty in perspective, emphasizing his whole game, and he kept him in the line-up. That's about all you can expect from a manager.

I really don't get the Girardi = Poor Communicator argument. He was OK with the media, didn't bad mouth his players, and appeared to knowledgeablely communicate what he wanted to say. Could he really have been so different with the players? Do they really need a constant soft touch? These are professional athletes playing at the highest level, not some delicate snowflakes.
   58. OsunaSakata Posted: December 02, 2017 at 05:01 PM (#5584917)
Sorry, Hensley Meulens. You should have picked a father and grandfather who were major league ballplayers.
   59. reech Posted: December 02, 2017 at 05:22 PM (#5584924)
Isn't it possible...just possible, that the Yankees know what they are doing?\
   60. Lars6788 Posted: December 02, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5584934)
As a manager, Girardi had a vision of complete autonomy of his team and wasn't above fighting for it - regardless of the results, it had to grate on the front office that they couldn't expect their field manager to be a bit more forgiving, a little more open to suggestions.

Girardi did Jorge Posada and A-Rod wrong during their respective farewell tours and when he could have been a little more gracious [in letting Posada catch a few games instead of being a DH or letting A-Rod play] - he may have felt like letting the players have their moments simply was not his job as a manager, but he seemed a just a bit tone deaf with regards to those two players.





   61. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 02, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5584936)
Isn't it possible...just possible, that the Yankees know what they are doing?

Sure, and even if they don't, they could get lucky. I think the point that many are making is that whatever faults Joe Girardi had weren't all that obvious to those who follow the team fairly closely. Same for the benefits of Boone. Joe Torre was widely panned as an undistinguished retread NL guy with no Yankee connection, but he worked out pretty well, so we could all be wrong again.
   62. Rally Posted: December 02, 2017 at 06:16 PM (#5584941)
Why would you want a totally inexperienced manager for a team that expects to be playing in October the next 5 years?


Beltran has managed exactly as many major and minor league games as Aaron Boone.
   63. djordan Posted: December 02, 2017 at 07:19 PM (#5584953)
Also, the question whether Cashman knows what he's doing is irrelevant. He did a tremendous job with re-working the roster over the past two seasons. He has earned the right to make this move.

My point is this choice seems more about controlling the in-game decision-making process than leaving the authority in the dugout. Writers and baseball observers looked their nose down at Charlie Finley for pulling the strings on Alvin Dark in 1974-1975.

Kinda looking like the man was ahead of his time (in so far as diminishing the authority of the manager. Obviously, Finley's decisions weren't generated by an algorithm.)
   64. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 02, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5584955)
Beltran has managed exactly as many major and minor league games as Aaron Boone.


I thought that the point of the post you quoted was that Boone has managed exactly as many major and minor league games as Beltran. At any rate, he certainly isn't a supporter of the Boone hire.
   65. rconn23 Posted: December 02, 2017 at 11:13 PM (#5584996)
All this hand wringing over a manager. If the talent performs as they should, the Yankees will be just fine.

   66. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 03, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5585016)
All this hand wringing over a manager. If the talent performs as they should, the Yankees will be just fine.

So the absolute best case is Boone is a non-factor? That's a ringing endorsement.

And, of course, if Boone is a lousy manager, the talent won't perform as "they should".
   67. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 03, 2017 at 03:44 AM (#5585034)
And if he’s a great manager they’ll perform even better than they should! Hitting and pitching coaches will have enhanced abilities! Injuries will heal overnight! Weeeee!
   68. TomH Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:29 AM (#5585036)
39 said: Didi Gregorius is a big left-handed hitter who can more than handle shortstop defensively. And not only that -- he also has an excellent contact rate! .... and he still has some room to grow offensively.

A man whose career OPS was barely over 700 coming into the year, and OPSed almost 800 n 2017, has room to grow? He's going to turn 28 this winter. If he has room to grow, he has about 12 rooms to regress. Big rooms. They's be even bigger if the RF wall were moved back 20 feet.
   69. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5585043)
Gregorius' OPS last 3 years - 688, 751, 796. Nice steady improvement, not a sudden flukish jump like you're trying to suggest by comparing 2017 to his career OPS coming into the year.

He also hit much better on the road than at home last year and has hit 23 HR at NYS vs 22 away over the past two seasons, so I guess they're going to have to move a lot of other right field walls back 20 feet too.
   70. villageidiom Posted: December 03, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5585091)
Joe Torre was widely panned as an undistinguished retread NL guy with no Yankee connection, but he worked out pretty well, so we could all be wrong again.
Torre without Zimmer <<<<<<<<< Torre with Zimmer.
   71. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 03, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5585166)
Torre without Zimmer <<<<<<<<< Torre with Zimmer.

God knows Torre would've been crippled for life if Zim hadn't protected him from Pedro.
   72. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 03, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5585170)
The Red Sox were very lucky that Pedro didn't break his pitching hand on Zimmer's steel-plated skull. He was more machine than man.
   73. TomH Posted: December 03, 2017 at 04:17 PM (#5585195)
69, if you show me a good analysis that suggests Didi's 3 yr improvement in OPS pattern foretells a better future than a pattern of 751, 688, 796 or such, I'll buy it. But most of what I've read says regression is a tough beast to slay (unless you are 22 and improving is natural). And guess what, the reliable early projection systems for 2018 agree with me. Maybe they are all wrong.
   74. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 03, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5585208)
I'm not the the one trying to fortell anything. Just taking issue with your (mis)characterization of 2017 as being out of line with the rest of DiDi's career to date. I'm not sure what is supposed to be surprising or controversial about modest steady improvement from age 25 to age 27. Isn't that exactly what we're supposed to expect from a typical player?
   75. rconn23 Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5585258)
#66. Who says that the best case is that he's a non-factor? The biggest thing a manager is praised/criticized for is management of the bullpen. That's his biggest challenge, as it is for any manager.

I'm not saying it's an easy job, but of all the major sports, it's the easiest.

Boone is an unknown quality. Saying he will be a disaster or unmitigated success is pure supposition. He has a very talented team, and he would have to do a lot to screw it up.
   76. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5585264)
Boone is an unknown quality. Saying he will be a disaster or unmitigated success is pure supposition. He has a very talented team, and he would have to do a lot to screw it up


I think you are missing the argument many people are making, including me way back in post #4.

The issue is that they had a guy who seemed pretty good already, who worked with a lot of these young guys already and who, for reasons we can't quite apportion credit for, saw most of the squad succeed at a level higher then previously displayed.

Why would you mess with that right now(Yes, I saw the contract was up post, etc)? Girardi appeared to be able to get his players to play above what was expected for the most part, you are on the cusp of what will seem to be a pretty successful run and now the team has decided that the successful guy they had in place wasn't good enough, so they replaced him with an unknown quantity.

It seems an odd move.
   77. Voodoo Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:23 PM (#5585269)
Ohtani reportedly tells the Yanks they are out of the running for his services!
   78. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:34 PM (#5585276)
Ohtani reportedly tells the Yanks they are out of the running for his services!


Wait, what? Is this a troll? link please?

Eh, nevermind, saw it on MLBtraderumors. Looks like he likes the west coast.

Maybe the Giants can pull the Ohtani/Stanton double..that would be some kind of awesome.

Edited
   79. DL from MN Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:33 PM (#5585380)
Charley Walters of the Pioneer Press had this interesting tidbit today

Pssst: Aaron Boone, who was named manager of the Yankees on Friday, was in final stages of joining the Twins’ front office before being approached by New York.

Boone, 44, was in Minneapolis last month for an extensive interview by the entire Twins hierarchy. He left impressed by Twins executives and felt it would have been a great opportunity.


http://www.twincities.com/2017/12/02/charley-walters-vikings-full-of-pro-bowl-worthy-players-kyle-rudolph-says/
   80. dlf Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:18 AM (#5585474)
There seems to have been a trend lately of former players with no coaching experience becoming managers like Walt Weiss and Robin Ventura. When is the last time that such a move worked well?
   81. TomH Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:29 AM (#5585478)
cerco 74, it was post39 that was fortelling Gregorius with more improvement to come, which I assess to be unlikely, based not his past and everyone else's histories. I would say it is your (mis)characterization of 100 pt growth in OPS as unsurprising and modest here; the normal growth from 25 to 27 is more like 1/10th of that. Not that it doesn't happen, naturally, and it Could, yes it COULD be a new reality, but *most* of the time history shows it is not, and regression occurs. If I saw some kind of data (statcast?) that said Didi's power surge was a result of hitting balls much further, as opposed to barely clearing a short RF porch, I would be convinced otherwise that his OPS next year will be closer to 2017 than 2015-16. Seriously, I'm a Scoresheet player, if someone has a good reason to project Didi to be an 800 OPS SS, let me see it.
   82. Sweatpants Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:53 AM (#5585520)
There seems to have been a trend lately of former players with no coaching experience becoming managers like Walt Weiss and Robin Ventura. When is the last time that such a move worked well?
Was Larry Dierker ever a coach? He got only the one job, but he finished first in four of his five seasons as manager. Those were very talented teams, and they went 2-12 in the playoffs, so maybe he was seen as a Brenly type.
   83. SoSH U at work Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5585555)
When is the last time that such a move worked well?


It's really hard to categorize pennant-winning and .560 career winning percentage skipper Mike Matheny as an abject failure, though some Cards fans here will give it a shot.

And to answer sweatpangts, I don't think Dierker had any dugout experience before piloting the Stros (and despite his postseason mark, he was pretty damn good).

   84. The Good Face Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5585596)
Yeah, maybe the next guy can finally tap the potential of Sanchez and Judge.

Guys have had this really annoying habit of playing better for Girardi than what they were expected to do. They're not likely to do anywhere close to as well with Boone or anyone else. I think letting him go was insane.

Co-sign 100%.

It's a ridiculously reckless move to replace a known, above-average manager, with a complete unknown, on a team that intends to win the division next year.

I fear this is about Cashman's ego.


I'll "me too" this. Girardi has a decade long track record of prospects turning into stars or good players, and journeymen/washed up stars doing solid work for him. Maybe it was just luck. Maybe it's an organization strength that had nothing to do with Girardi. Maybe. But maybe not.

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