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Saturday, April 28, 2012

Adam Jones: Bring on K-9 units and Tasers for trespassers

Crazy Luke Scott must have had some kind of jackassian clubhouse influence.

Here’s what happened Friday: This bare-chested man was milking the crowd and weaving around the Baltimore City Police officers who are instructed to create a seal around the trespassers until it is eventually closed. But that gives these clowns plenty of time in the spotlight.

And Friday’s perpetrator had an extended frolicking period – so much that he ran down the third base line and slid headfirst into home plate. He got up to the roar of the crowd, and immediately went back down – thanks to a NFL-Draft-worthy hit from plate umpire Jeff Kellogg, who face-planted the man into the Camden Yards turf, to more shrieks of delight.

...“That was awesome. I told [Kellogg], ‘That’s awesome,’” Jones said. “I’m sick and tired of these guys running on the field, man. I said let’s get a K-9, something. A K-9 [unit] would be fine.”

More Jones: “It’s so annoying. You’re stopping the game. I understand you’re drunk. I mean, go do that on someone else’s expense. I hope that’s [Kellogg’s tackle] a lesson.

Perhaps Jones’ most electric comment was the idea that anyone who runs onto the field should be tased.

“I’d [advocate] that people get tased. I’d enjoy that. You don’t run on the field and just disturb a game that’s going on. It’s private property, and I’m sick and tired. I don’t like the way the cops go after them here,” Jones said. “I know it’s not their call. I know the rules; they want them to create a circle or seal. Those kids are running all around those guys. No disrespect to the cops, but go get this dude, put your knee in his throat and tie his [butt] up, simple as that. It’s so annoying. I wish I can go out there as a player, but we can’t.”

Repoz Posted: April 28, 2012 at 08:20 AM | 282 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: orioles

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   1. Leroy Kincaid Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4118337)
Works for me.
   2. AROM Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:21 AM (#4118339)
How discriminating are the K9s though? How do you know once you set them on the field they'll go after the drunk and not the center fielder?
   3. Gamingboy Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:24 AM (#4118340)
How discriminating are the K9s though? How do you know once you set them on the field they'll go after the drunk and not the center fielder?


Okay, K9 units will only be used when the opposing team is fielding.
   4. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4118343)
Perhaps Jones’ most electric comment was the idea that anyone who runs onto the field should be tased.


I see what you did there.
   5. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4118345)
Just put him in here for a few hours.
   6. Coot Veal and Cot Deal make $486 every day Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:37 AM (#4118349)
al-quaeda sharpshooters
   7. boteman Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:54 AM (#4118354)
Man, modern baseball players really ARE wussies. Rick Monday would have tackled, bitten, and kicked into submission anybody who ran onto HIS field!
   8. bfan Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4118358)
I'll support Jones' plan if he will support tasers being used for people that resist arrest.
   9. Misirlou is bad, he's nationwide Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:02 AM (#4118359)
I don't like these ijits running around on the field, but what I like less is society's growing cavalier attitude towards using tasers to cure every affront. New rule: You can't advocate using tasers on non-violent offenders unless you've been tased yourself.
   10. Dale Sams Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4118362)
Chariots.
   11. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:10 AM (#4118363)
Man, modern baseball players really ARE wussies. Rick Monday would have tackled, bitten, and kicked into submission anybody who ran onto HIS field!

Yeah, but Joe Dimaggio once gave an autograph to a kid who ran out to centerfield in the middle of an inning.
   12. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:17 AM (#4118367)
That's only because the kid produced a signed receipt from Morris Engleberg.
   13. aleskel Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4118387)
Do police forces still use K-9 units for crowd control? I thought that was phased out after, well, you know.
   14. Ron J Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:50 AM (#4118389)
#13 I know the Ottawa police used K-9 units to keep the crowd off the field at an Ottawa CFL game (since I was there). Very strange. It was a while back to be sure.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4118392)
I don't like these ijits running around on the field, but what I like less is society's growing cavalier attitude towards using tasers to cure every affront. New rule: You can't advocate using tasers on non-violent offenders unless you've been tased yourself.

Well, I think tasing has only become popular because we've gotten so wimpish about police using their clubs.

Granted cops do go over the line, and they shouldn't be beating people in the head with nightsticks, but a club blow to the leg, or midsection, would have been the "traditional" non-lethal way for a cop to subdue an evading suspect.

I'd also guess that proper use of a club is less dangerous to the perp than being gang tackled by 3-4 cops, or being tased. It just looks worse on TV, so we shy away.
   16. bfan Posted: April 28, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4118393)
I don't like these ijits running around on the field, but what I like less is society's growing cavalier attitude towards using tasers to cure every affront. New rule: You can't advocate using tasers on non-violent offenders unless you've been tased yourself.


How about this new rule: you cannot complain about tasering until you have been effected by someone who resists arrest, and have found another, less intrusive way to deal with it?
   17. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4118398)
Do police forces still use K-9 units for crowd control? I thought that was phased out after, well, you know.

they did in 1980. Tom Boswell said this led to a new ground rule at the Vet: "attack dogs are in play"
   18. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:09 AM (#4118402)
New rule: You can't advocate using tasers on non-violent offenders unless you've been tased yourself.


How about this new rule: you cannot complain about tasering until you have been effected by someone who resists arrest, and have found another, less intrusive way to deal with it?

I've read about proposals to have police helicopters equipped with giant magnets remove stalled cars from rush hour traffic. Seems like some variant of that idea might be worth a try here, maybe pick up the party boy with a piece of oversized flypaper and drop him somewhere in the middle of a forest, flypaper and all, without a compass or a cell phone. Give him something to think about.

Hey, it'd sure make for a more entertaining YouTube moment than the 1000th video of a taser. And I'm sure you could get some enterprising flypaper company to sponsor the event.
   19. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4118404)
How about this new rule: you cannot complain about tasering until you have been effected by someone who resists arrest


Sure, I've seen the Rodney King video.
   20. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4118412)
How about this new rule: you cannot complain about tasering until you have been effected by someone who resists arrest, and have found another, less intrusive way to deal with it?

New rule: You are not allowed to propose new rules, unless you understand the difference between effected and affected.
   21. Lassus Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:24 AM (#4118414)
until you have been effected by someone

This sounds dirty.

EDIT: DAMMIT I HATE PANTS.
   22. Blastin Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4118424)
Shoot, I was gonna be grammar-snarker. Too late.
   23. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4118433)
Why does Adam Jones so hate Jim Palmer?
   24. Greg (U)K Posted: April 28, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4118445)
Granted cops do go over the line, and they shouldn't be beating people in the head with nightsticks, but a club blow to the leg, or midsection, would have been the "traditional" non-lethal way for a cop to subdue an evading suspect.

A friend of mine's great-grandfather was some kind of constable in London during WW1. His dad was showing me his nightstick at a New Years' Party once. It felt pretty cool swinging it around pretending I was whacking old ladies for "queue jumping" at a soup kitchen.

Which is a solid reminder of why I would be a poor cop.
   25. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 28, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4118459)
I'll support Jones' plan if he will support tasers being used for people that resist arrest.

"Resisting" according to who, the cops?
New police-report boilerplate: "We tackled him, and when we stomped his legs and wrenched his arms behind his back, he flinched, so he was resisting, so I used my Taser on him."
   26. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 28, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4118462)

New police-report boilerplate: "We tackled him, and when we stomped his legs and wrenched his arms behind his back, he flinched, so he was resisting, so I used my Taser on him."


That boilerplate is 20 years old. The new boilerplate is, "We told him to stop filming us with his camera and he didn't, so he was resisting, so I used my taser on him."
   27. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4118483)
Video of the tackle, if you're interested.
   28. rlc Posted: April 28, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4118491)
I just watched the video, and I'm pretty sure Jeff Kellogg is actually Enrico Pallazzo.
   29. smileyy Posted: April 28, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4118499)
The new new narrative is "his online activity looked suspicious so we drone-striked his patents house, then hit it again when their sympathizer neighbors tried to provide first aid."
   30. Darren Posted: April 28, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4118511)
You know, I get that littering is not a major crime. But when it happens on my lawn, it inconveniences me. That's why I think the death penalty for littering makes a lot of sense.
   31. John DiFool2 Posted: April 28, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4118526)
al-quaeda sharpshooters


You mean the ones who went to the Imperial Stormtrooper's Marksmanship Academy?
   32. Shock Posted: April 28, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4118593)
If we can also apply this to trespassing managers who linger on the field for 10 minutes after they've been ejected, I'm game.
   33. bfan Posted: April 28, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4118594)
Sure, I've seen the Rodney King video.


Have you read the Stephen Brill essay "Maybe the jury was right?" read it; it very illuminating. The police in that situation followed all appropriate LA police procedure as the victim, who went 100 mph through busy streets to avoid lawful arrest, continued to resist arrest beyond what the police thought was safe. And as for me, I far more worry about punks going 100 mph in crowded areas than the police dealing with them.
   34. KT's Pot Arb Posted: April 28, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4118605)
How about this new rule: you cannot complain about tasering until you have been effected by someone who resists arrest, and have found another, less intrusive way to deal with it?


There should be a TPS report for this, and it should require the perp's signature before he can be tasered.

Once in college this drunk/high guy tried to force his way into our party. I was working the door and me and two others just walked him down a flight of steps, which he didn't like, so he tried to run back up and push through us. We pushed back so he struck one of my friends in the face. The friend freaked out and started whaling on him and shoved him down the steps. The other friend stepped between them and told the first friend to cool it. So drunk/high guy punches him in the back of the head, and this friend freaks out and starts punching him.

I grab the guy and drag him away from the door into the parking lot, all the while telling him and my two friends to cool it, no one needs to get hurt. He gets away from me and after the two friends, and punches an innocent bystander which causes the bystander and my friends start whaling on him as a group. At this point I'm not interested in physically intervening, because I know what will happen, so I just try to verbally calm everyone down, but they aren't listening.

My 6 foot 6 pacifist brother comes out and sees three guys whaling on this poor guy, all bloody by now and clothes torn from being repeatedly thrown to the ground. He grabs the three guys and single handedly pulls them off and for a moment I think, aha, the guy is calming, realizing he's been saved by a good samaritan. Then he punches my brother in the face.

My brother freaks out and starts whaling on the drunk/high guy, who of course continues to get up every time he's knocked down. As he's doing this the cops finally show up. My brother, realizing this (and probably coming to his senses a bit) stops. The drunk/high guy gets up again to come after my brother but the cop steps in between, so the drunk/high guy punches the cop instead. This earns drunk/high guy a thrashing with the night-stick, ending with being unceremoniously shoved into the back seat of the police cruiser.

I was told the cops didn't go straight to the police station, that the kid got them to stop and give him some more application of the nightstick.

Yea, tasers are so, so, awful. It's so easy to control people without them, especially when they are drunk. If cops would just yell "time-out" during a brawl they could take their time, call their supervisor if need be, and determine the precise minimum amount of force and strategy needed to subdue someone without injuring them or requiring that nasty taser. Plus we know these suspects never have any sharp objects or weapons hidden on them so what's the worry?
   35. Misirlou is bad, he's nationwide Posted: April 28, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4118617)
Yea, tasers are so, so, awful. It's so easy to control people without them, especially when they are drunk. If cops would just yell "time-out" during a brawl they could take their time, call their supervisor if need be, and determine the precise minimum amount of force and strategy needed to subdue someone without injuring them or requiring that nasty taser. Plus we know these suspects never have any sharp objects or weapons hidden on them so what's the worry?


What part of your story above is non-violent? I'm talking about tasering a kid in a University auditorium because he's heckling a politician. Tasering a guy who's running around on a baseball field. Tasering an old man in his home because he refuses to go to the hospital. Things like that. Adam Jones wants to taser a guy because he is being inconvenienced at work for a minute or 2. That's disgusting.
   36. thetailor Posted: April 28, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4118634)
How is this a thread about taser use when AN UMPIRE TACKLED A DUDE LIKE A BOSS AND THERE IS VIDEO.

Jeff Kellogg -- well done. I'd have given him a swift face wash into the dirt too, but he did a good job. The part I don't like is the article's implication that Kellogg might get in trouble for this.
   37. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 28, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4118643)
Athletes remain a greater threat to civilians than civilians to athletes -- by many orders of magnitude.
   38. Misirlou is bad, he's nationwide Posted: April 28, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4118644)
How is this a thread about taser use when AN UMPIRE TACKLED A DUDE LIKE A BOSS AND THERE IS VIDEO.


"Perhaps Jones’ most electric comment was the idea that anyone who runs onto the field should be tased.

“I’d [advocate] that people get tased. I’d enjoy that."
   39. Swedish Chef Posted: April 28, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4118674)
I'm not sure I'm in favor of equipping the umpires with tasers.
   40. flournoy Posted: April 28, 2012 at 07:12 PM (#4118693)
Time to link to Matt Diaz's trip again.
   41. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4118737)
What part of your story above is non-violent? I'm talking about tasering a kid in a University auditorium because he's heckling a politician. Tasering a guy who's running around on a baseball field. Tasering an old man in his home because he refuses to go to the hospital. Things like that.
I believe they tasered the kid because he wouldn't leave, not because he was heckling. Most non-cops I talk to look at tasering as serious, one of the last tools in the cop toolbox, whereas cops I've talked to look at tasering as one of the first. It's, in their view, a safe way to obtain compliance without physical contact. In the absence of tasers, the don't-tase-me-bro guy would have had his arm wrenched behind his back and then physically yanked out the door.
Adam Jones wants to taser a guy because he is being inconvenienced at work for a minute or 2. That's disgusting.
Right; tasering is far too good for those jerks.
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4118751)
I believe they tasered the kid because he wouldn't leave, not because he was heckling. Most non-cops I talk to look at tasering as serious, one of the last tools in the cop toolbox, whereas cops I've talked to look at tasering as one of the first. It's, in their view, a safe way to obtain compliance without physical contact. In the absence of tasers, the don't-tase-me-bro guy would have had his arm wrenched behind his back and then physically yanked out the door.

But that's a mistake. The odds of a cop killing someone with a nightstick, or while wrenching his arm are virtually nil. A taser can kill someone.

Over-reaction to cops using nightsticks has led to the use of a potentially more dangerous solution.

   43. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 28, 2012 at 09:30 PM (#4118766)
I believe they tasered the kid because he wouldn't leave, not because he was heckling. Most non-cops I talk to look at tasering as serious, one of the last tools in the cop toolbox, whereas cops I've talked to look at tasering as one of the first. It's, in their view, a safe way to obtain compliance without physical contact.


Added bonus: now the government can oppress David at Taserpoint, which I think we can all agree is a de-escalation from their previous position.
   44. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4118830)
I was disappointed with the takedown by the umpire.

I was hoping for something more like this.
   45. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:23 AM (#4118884)
Jeff Kellogg -- well done. I'd have given him a swift face wash into the dirt too, but he did a good job. The part I don't like is the article's implication that Kellogg might get in trouble for this.

Well, he did let the dude score. Doesn't do much good to tackle him AFTER he touches home plate.
   46. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM (#4118947)
More decisions like this are coming down, so maybe cops will stop viewing "beating as well as tasering somebody" as a safe alternative to "just beating somebody".
   47. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4118969)
It's, in their view, a safe way to obtain compliance without physical contact. In the absence of tasers, the don't-tase-me-bro guy would have had his arm wrenched behind his back and then physically yanked out the door.


Have you actually seen the video? The don't tase me bro was grabbed by a bunch of cops and was yank out the door. There was 7 cops on him when they decided to start tasing him.
   48. cmd600 Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4118987)
Have you actually seen the video? The don't tase me bro was grabbed by a bunch of cops and was yank out the door. There was 7 cops on him when they decided to start tasing him.


Except he wasn't yanked out the door, specifically because of his non-compliance. Regardless of what he was saying, his physical actions showed that if you gave him an inch, he would fight back. Yeah, tasing a guy who is pinned to the ground is an extreme measure, so then what is the appropriate measure to take when it's going to require 4 officers to have to pretty much carry a guy kicking and screaming to subdue the situation?
   49. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4119006)
Well I assume before tasers existed they would just shoot the guy.
   50. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4119015)
so then what is the appropriate measure to take when it's going to require 4 officers to have to pretty much carry a guy kicking and screaming to subdue the situation?


5 mg of haloperidol?
   51. Squash Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4119021)
Except he wasn't yanked out the door, specifically because of his non-compliance. Regardless of what he was saying, his physical actions showed that if you gave him an inch, he would fight back. Yeah, tasing a guy who is pinned to the ground is an extreme measure, so then what is the appropriate measure to take when it's going to require 4 officers to have to pretty much carry a guy kicking and screaming to subdue the situation?

The primary problem here (beyond the dude of course, but there are cuckoo people in the world and the reason we pay cops and security guards is deal with them) was the officers/security team's incompetence. Any Krav Maga teacher in a relatively short period of time can show you how to force compliance on just about any person from any angle. Much less when there are 7 of you holding him down.
   52. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:41 PM (#4119026)
Any Krav Maga teacher in a relatively short period of time can show you how to force compliance on just about any person from any angle.


I dunno, I saw Moti Horenstein fight in the UFC.
   53. asdf1234 Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4119054)
Strange that there isn't significant national debate over the routine use of tasers as pain compliance. Jones's perspective is a pretty common one, as most people don't realize that police use these things in lieu of having conversations, not in lieu of their original purpose of replacing the firearm in circumstances that call for less-lethal force.

There've been a couple of recent cases in SoCal that made the local news. In one case, a transsexual woman drinking in the desert with her friends was tasered multiple times--including once in the genitals, according to her--by Imperial County LEOs because she wouldn't lay face down in the dirt. The video of the encounter is particularly revealing as to what standards LEOs use when deciding when to deploy these things. More recently, a schizophrenic porn star was tasered into cardiac arrest after his girlfriend called to report that he was trying to harm himself with a knife. Nice of them to save him the trouble.

On the national scale, the Allen Kephart and Danielle Maudsley cases received passing attention, but nowhere near what they deserved. Even the case where the cop shot someone's dog sans reason (an epidemic that deserves all the press it can get, admittedly) received 10x the press of either of these cases.
   54. Zipperholes Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4119055)
so then what is the appropriate measure to take when it's going to require 4 officers to have to pretty much carry a guy kicking and screaming to subdue the situation?
Um, having 4 officers carry him kicking and screaming?
   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:48 PM (#4119130)
so then what is the appropriate measure to take when it's going to require 4 officers to have to pretty much carry a guy kicking and screaming to subdue the situation?


Um, having 4 officers carry him kicking and screaming?

Or two or three blows to the gut with a club, followed by carrying him out crying but not kicking.
   56. bigglou115 Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4119169)
I know a few cops who are much more worried about using the taser than the stick. As part of their training (so they say, but they may just be idiots) they got zapped, and they're pretty sure they'd have rather been smacked with the club in the gut.
   57. cmd600 Posted: April 29, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4119275)
the officers/security team's incompetence. Any Krav Maga teacher


Absolutely agree on the incompetence, but you get what you pay for, and universities aren't known for hiring highly talented security. If a potential security guard is well trained in Krav Maga, he's probably not riding around on a Segway looking to bust potheads. You have to find a way for this level of security guard to respond. Krav Maga is likely out of the question for the majority of these people.

Um, having 4 officers carry him kicking and screaming?


And give the jackass a chance to start flailing and swinging, and hit a cop or an innocent bystander? Remember, I'm agreeing that tasing is a harsh measure, and security can frequently be too incompetent to use it properly, but we need a quicker and more efficient way to subdue jackasses like that, who have no interest in being reasonable.



   58. Sunday silence Posted: April 29, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4119307)
is mace not useful in such situations?
   59. Zipperholes Posted: April 29, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4119324)
And give the jackass a chance to start flailing and swinging, and hit a cop or an innocent bystander? Remember, I'm agreeing that tasing is a harsh measure, and security can frequently be too incompetent to use it properly, but we need a quicker and more efficient way to subdue jackasses like that, who have no interest in being reasonable.
Unless we're dealing with an MMA fighter or a large person on PCP, if four cops don't know how to get someone cuffed and hogtied without using weapons, they should turn in their badges.
   60. Morty Causa Posted: April 29, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4119331)
   61. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: April 29, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4119350)
Jones is going to stand his ground
   62. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4119383)
is mace not useful in such situations?

If the person is high or drunk or crazy, not much.

Unless we're dealing with an MMA fighter or a large person on PCP, if four cops don't know how to get someone cuffed and hogtied without using weapons, they should turn in their badges.

They can, but they're not being paid to fight fair. If some ####### is fighting the cops, no reason they shouldn't use weapons.

Usually, it's one or two cops, not four.
   63. bigglou115 Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4119387)
If the person is high or drunk or crazy, not much.


Speaking as someone who is arguably crazy and was definitely drunk while being maced (self inflicted friendly fire, I was playing with a girls keychain) I disagree strongly.
   64. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4119389)
Usually, it's one or two cops, not four.

And yet when it is 4 cops or 7 or 10, or how many were involved in the Rodney King beating, they just go right ahead and tase them anyway.
   65. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4119391)
You can't, or I should say you shouldn't, use main in a crowded indoor environment. If they had tried to mace that guy they probably would have had to clear the room or at least had to deal with minor injuries to several people nearby him.
   66. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4119403)
And yet when it is 4 cops or 7 or 10, or how many were involved in the Rodney King beating, they just go right ahead and tase them anyway.

They tase them precisely b/c of the Rodney King backlash, i.e. using clubs looks really bad on TV, despite the fact that King wasn't hurt.

I agree they tase too much, but if you want less tasing, you have to accept more beating with clubs. The cops should be required to use the clubs properly though; no beating in the head, just use it to the legs or mid-section to get the guy down.

If they use their clubs properly, there's virtually no chance of serious injury.
   67. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4119405)
Speaking as someone who is arguably crazy and was definitely drunk while being maced (self inflicted friendly fire, I was playing with a girls keychain) I disagree strongly.

You weren't in a rage.
   68. Misirlou is bad, he's nationwide Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4119415)
I agree they tase too much, but if you want less tasing, you have to accept more beating with clubs. The cops should be required to use the clubs properly though; no beating in the head, just use it to the legs or mid-section to get the guy down.


If you watch the "Don't tase me 'bro" video, you see the guy wasn't tased until the 6-7 cops had him face down with his hands cuffed behind his back. You can hear one of the mall cops say "If you don't shut up, we're going to tase you". And they did. That's meting out extra judicial punishment, not subduing a suspect, and happens way too often. The security guards were embarrassed that they couldn't control the guy sooner and punished him in response. Total ########.
   69. Ron J Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4119417)
despite the fact that King wasn't hurt.


As Snapper goes for the "biggest idiot" award. But this is typical in that he so very frequently offers up nonsense as fact. This is a matter of record no matter what drivel your "sources" pump out.

King suffered 11 skull fractures, a crushed cheekbone, a broken ankle, internal injuries, a burn on his chest and some brain damage in the beating.

####### moron.
   70. Zipperholes Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4119423)
They can, but they're not being paid to fight fair. If some ####### is fighting the cops, no reason they shouldn't use weapons.
They're being paid to put up with a fair amount of physical risk in order to enforce the law. That doesn't mean they should sit there and take punches. But it means they should use the absolute minimum amount of force necessary to subdue the person. If the instinct is to use the club or taser and ask questions later, maybe we need to provide more training in other submission techniques.
   71. Lassus Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4119425)
They tase them precisely b/c of the Rodney King backlash, i.e. using clubs looks really bad on TV, despite the fact that King wasn't hurt.

So his fractured face, broken ankle, and various other injuries were like welcome kisses from authority figures. "More, please!"

cokes, etc.
   72. Zipperholes Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4119429)
They tase them precisely b/c of the Rodney King backlash, i.e. using clubs looks really bad on TV
Yes, that is what the outrage over the Rodney King incident was about. The mere fact that they used clubs.
   73. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4119436)
Snapper: Post #69 is as worked up as I've ever seen Ron get, in two decades on the internet between here and usenet.

I think you may wish to reconsider your statement.
   74. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4119440)
If snapper's smart, he won't return to this thread. There isn't much you can say when you get busted spewing a ridiculous lie like that.
   75. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:56 PM (#4119443)
Snapper: there are any number of photos of the way King looked after the beating. You don't even need a documented list of his injuries, or to hear testimony from a single doctor. Just look at a photo. If he wasn't "hurt," the word has no meaning.

But I'm happy to let you clarify or retract your statement. I have no interest in playing gotcha.
   76. Lassus Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4119451)
Snapper probably got his names mixed up, and actually meant Matthew Shepard.
   77. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:15 PM (#4119453)
despite the fact that King wasn't hurt.

King suffered 11 skull fractures, a crushed cheekbone, a broken ankle, internal injuries, a burn on his chest and some brain damage in the beating.


But his spirit remained unbroken. That's what really counts.
   78. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4119455)
There isn't much you can say when you get busted spewing a ridiculous lie like that.


He was a victim of bad intelligence, you can't be so judgmental.
   79. Ron J Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4119456)
#73 Yes. I nearly deleted it, or edited it. Over the top posts (such as mine) accomplish nothing. I've written a few over the years and almost invariably regret them. (As I would if he's somehow transposed nightstick usages. It'd just be normal stupidity and God knows I've been there)

But it's so easy to check these kind of things. Drives me nuts.
   80. Zipperholes Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:25 PM (#4119458)
   81. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4119461)
Rodney King, two hours after the beating.


wow--just wow--that picture was from this article

this one was from one hour after--he sure got better fast

don't be a troll, son
   82. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:32 PM (#4119462)
As Snapper goes for the "biggest idiot" award. But this is typical in that he so very frequently offers up nonsense as fact. This is a matter of record no matter what drivel your "sources" pump out.

King suffered 11 skull fractures, a crushed cheekbone, a broken ankle, internal injuries, a burn on his chest and some brain damage in the beating.

####### moron.


#### you.

I honestly didn't recall him being badly hurt. It was 20 ####### years ago.
   83. Ron J Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4119463)
#81 I'm pretty sure your sarcasm detector needs batteries. See post 72.
   84. Misirlou is bad, he's nationwide Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4119464)
I honestly didn't recall him being badly hurt. It was 20 ####### years ago.


Oh good Lord! You don't remember his mug shot?
   85. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4119465)
I honestly didn't recall him being badly hurt. It was 20 ####### years ago.


Fair enough.
   86. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:40 PM (#4119466)
Rodney King, two hours after the beating.


Primey.
   87. robinred Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4119468)
Amusing, as Ray likes to say.
   88. Morty Causa Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4119469)
King was taken to Pacifica Hospital immediately after his arrest. He suffered a fractured facial bone, a broken right ankle, and numerous bruises and lacerations.[21] In a negligence claim filed with the city, King alleged he had suffered "11 skull fractures, permanent brain damage, broken [bones and teeth], kidney damage [and] emotional and physical trauma."[22


That is from the wiki entry on King. I tried to find the actual case, but I guess it isn't online.
   89. Best Regards, L.M. Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:50 PM (#4119473)
Rodney King should not be used as a reason why cops use tasers. At the start of the Rodney King video, the wires from the taser are sticking out of his back.
   90. Lassus Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4119474)
I honestly didn't recall him being badly hurt. It was 20 ####### years ago.

That... can't be what you're going with. I mean, I guess it can be, but, yikes.
   91. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:54 PM (#4119475)
I honestly didn't recall him being badly hurt. It was 20 ####### years ago.


What this implies is that you didn't and don't care about the fact that he got beaten. It implies a few other things as well. I'm trying to explain because you don't seem to get why this is a deal.
   92. Ron J Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:58 PM (#4119476)
#88 I did find this. A complicated mess about the city's refusal to pay legal fees for the officers in the civil suit. There are enough references here that you can probably track it down. Does specifically mention that there was a determination as to the extent of King's injuries, but I didn't see any mention as to what those injuries were.

There's an extensive discussion as to what "actual malice" means under California law as well. A key point because if I'm reading correctly there were no punitive damages awarded.
   93. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:01 PM (#4119477)
That... can't be what you're going with. I mean, I guess it can be, but, yikes.


Lassus, would you rather he doubled down on his original statement? He retracted it. I'm not sure what else you're looking for, at this point.
   94. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4119478)
Yeah, you think you could come up with anything better?
   95. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4119479)

this one was from one hour after--he sure got better fast


Uh, that's Frank Jude Jr. a man beaten by Milwaukee police officers (seven were convicted) in October 2004.

Not denying, King's injuries, but come on, that's the wrong guy.
   96. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:05 PM (#4119480)
A better reason for being so bold with his original statement?
   97. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:11 PM (#4119483)
Yeah, you think you could come up with anything better?


I was born in Jogyjakarta, Indonesia to a family of highland farmers. When the volcano erupted, everyone of them, my bapak and ibu, my sisters and brothers, all of them died. I was left in the forest...alone. I was raised by orangutans and mosquitoes. I spoke no language. In fact, this is the first time I have ever used human language. This is the first time I have interacted with people. But more importantly this is the first time I have used a smart phone. (I found it here in the woods). This smart phone has an app that can literally translate my animal urges and thoughts into human English words! This is how I am communicating to you today. I have never heard of Rodney King before this discussion. Never heard Ernie Harwell on the radio either.
   98. Lassus Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4119485)
Lassus, would you rather he doubled down on his original statement? He retracted it. I'm not sure what else you're looking for, at this point.

That was a retraction? It sounded like a reason why it was so easily forgotten - "Could have happened to anyone! Twentyfucking years ago!" This wasn't an event that occurred, was talked about for a year, and then was forgotten by everyone. The events of the beating and the national reaction were referenced frequently - if not constantly - in the news, in pop culture, in comedy, in drama, in everything, for an easy decade. That snapper could easily believe to this day that King suffered no injuries speaks to the way his brain translates what happens in the world around him.

   99. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4119486)
97 is great. Hit the flip on a high note.
   100. Zipperholes Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4119489)
Lassus, would you rather he doubled down on his original statement? He retracted it. I'm not sure what else you're looking for, at this point.
How about this: "I was wrong about King, and I was wrong to state something as fact that is not true. I'm sorry."

Instead, an attack on the person who called him out and a lame excuse.
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