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Friday, July 11, 2014

Adrian Beltre sets a major league record (3B total bases)

1) Yesterday, Rangers 3B Adrian Beltre set the major league record for career total bases by a 3B and he is 8th vs. the league average.

MOST CAREER TOTAL BASES, 3B

1    Adrian Beltre             4272   Dodgers/Mariners/Red Sox/Rangers
2    Brooks Robinson            4270   Orioles
3    Eddie Mathews             4224   Braves/Astros/Tigers
4    Chipper Jones             4171   Braves
5    Mike Schmidt               4112   Phillies
6    Wade Boggs                3915   Red Sox/Yankees/Rays
7    Gary Gaetti                3881   Twins/Angels/Royals/Cardinals/Cubs/Red Sox
8    Aramis Ramirez             3704   Pirates/Cubs/Brewers
9    Ron Santo                  3667   Cubs/White Sox
10   Graig Nettles             3657   Twins/Indians/Yankees/Padres/Braves/Expos

Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 11, 2014 at 11:50 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball is fun dammit, hall of fame, rangers, third basemen

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4748960)
It's about time we talked about Adrian Beltre. Have we done that here? We really should.
   2. villageidiom Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:33 PM (#4748963)
It's about time we talked about Adrian Beltre. Have we done that here? We really should.
Every chance we get.
   3. SandyRiver Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4748971)
Wonder why every single TB for Beltre is counted as if all were amassed with him in the lineup at 3B, when he had 160 as DH/PH.
Per BBRef, the top 5 "at 3B" look like this:

Robinson 4,254
Beltre 4,112
Schmidt 4,071
Chipper 3,925
Matthews 3,899

Beltre will probably pass Brooks early in 2015, but the above seems premature.
   4. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4748972)
Who hold the major league record for career total bases (as a hitter) by a pitcher? (Only while pitching, of course - Ruth as an outfielder doesn't count...)
   5. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4748973)
Yesterday, Rangers 3B Adrian Beltre set the major league record for career total bases by a 3B and he is 8th vs. the league average.


What does this mean?
   6. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4748978)
Who hold the major league record for career total bases (as a hitter) by a pitcher? (Only while pitching, of course - Ruth as an outfielder doesn't count...)


Walter Johnson. He played 13 games in the OF, so it's likely he didn't get all 795 as a pitcher, but the second place guy is over 250 behind him.
   7. Srul Itza Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:46 PM (#4748982)
Wonder why every single TB for Beltre is counted as if all were amassed with him in the lineup at 3B, when he had 160 as DH/PH.


Yeah. If you are just looking at guys who played the majority of their career at third base, Brett has 5,044 TB.
   8. vortex of dissipation Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:48 PM (#4748984)
Walter Johnson. He played 13 games in the OF, so it's likely he didn't get all 795 as a pitcher, but the second place guy is over 250 behind him.


Thanks.
   9. bunyon Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:48 PM (#4748985)

Walter Johnson. He played 13 games in the OF, so it's likely he didn't get all 795 as a pitcher, but the second place guy is over 250 behind him.


Put him in the HOF!
   10. Ziggy Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4748990)
Sounds to me like it's this: (Total bases as a 3B) - (Total bases by a league average 3B)

It would make sense that he's higher on the absolute than on the comparative list, since he's played most of his career in a high-scoring environment.

Edit: In Re: #5.
   11. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4748993)
Wonder why every single TB for Beltre is counted as if all were amassed with him in the lineup at 3B, when he had 160 as DH/PH.


Yeah. If you are just looking at guys who played the majority of their career at third base, Brett has 5,044 TB.


Even weirder, the list above excludes TB amassed at other positions for almost everyone else. Schmidt has 4404 in his career, Mathews 4349, Chipper 4755 ... But Brooks, who played 25 games at 2b and 5 at SS is not adjusted down. It's likely that Brooks is still the leader in TB amassed while in the lineup as a 3B.
   12. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 11, 2014 at 04:01 PM (#4748996)
Yeah. If you are just looking at guys who played the majority of their career at third base, Brett has 5,044 TB.


A-Rod has a chance to move ahead of Brett. He's only 84 games at third base away from playing more games there than at shortstop.
   13. Rennie's Tenet Posted: July 11, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4748999)
5    Mike Schmidt               4112   Phillies


Can't figure out how this is calculated: BB-Ref has Schmidt with 4071 as a third baseman, 317 at other positions, 16 as pinch hitter, 4404 total. Can't see how those get manipulated into 4112.
   14. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 04:13 PM (#4749002)
Yeah, sloppy reporting all around.
   15. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 11, 2014 at 04:20 PM (#4749005)
The data was generated via the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It looks like there are several errors.

Lee Sinins is the creator of the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia, the most powerful baseball encyclopedia on the market. All stats in the ATM reports are generated from the Complete Baseball Encyclopedia, unless explictly stated otherwise. FRAA, since 1950, comes from Baseball Prospectus. Lee can be followed on twitter @ATMreports.
   16. SandyRiver Posted: July 11, 2014 at 04:39 PM (#4749010)
It's likely that Brooks is still the leader in TB amassed while in the lineup as a 3B.


BBRef has Robinson getting 2 TB while in the lineup as 2B, 7 each as SS and PH, leaving 4,254 for 3B.
   17. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:06 PM (#4749025)
Can't figure out how this is calculated: BB-Ref has Schmidt with 4071 as a third baseman, 317 at other positions, 16 as pinch hitter, 4404 total. Can't see how those get manipulated into 4112.

Looking at Schmidt specifically, he played more first base than third in 1985 and had 292 TB that year (which is the difference between 4112 and 4404), so I'd say they're assigning each player's season total to the position at which they spent the plurality of their time that year.

Nobody tell Walt Davis, he might have an aneurysm. (OK, this is one context in which Walt's strict "only time at that position counts" dogma actually makes sense.)
   18. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:16 PM (#4749029)
Looking at Schmidt specifically, he played more first base than third in 1985 and had 292 TB that year (which is the difference between 4112 and 4404), so I'd say they're assigning each player's season total to the position at which they spent the plurality of their time that year.


Makes sense, but it doesn't work for Mathews. 1967 is the only year of his career when he played more at another position. He had 171 TB in 1967. Subtracting that from his career total of 4349 is 4178, not the 4224 reported above.

edit: OK, Mathews played for 2 teams in 1967. In Houston he was more 1B than 3B, but in Detroit he was more 3B than 1B. So it's probably that none of his TB from Houston count, but all of his TB from Detroit do.

Of all the possible ways one could compile this data, this one is by far the dumbest. Mathews's time as an OF in Milwaukee count toward his TB as a 3B, as does his time as a 1B in Detroit. But his time as a 3B in Houston don't.
   19. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4749032)
I misread the headline and assumed it included a typo. How could Beltre get 38 total bases in one game. Maaaaybe four home runs and a double, I thought . . . .
   20. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4749037)
Baseball Prospectus:

Before 1997: The Dodgers have a number of very good prospects, and may actually start deserving their annual Rookie of the Year awards soon. Beltre is a leading candidate for one. He’ll spend the year adjusting to AA and AAA, and probably be a September callup in 1998. The Dodgers tend to fast-track their real prospects, and let the others take the Brian Traxler career path. Beltre’s the real deal.

1998 Probably the best prospect in baseball, overall. A solid defensive third baseman with a decent batting eye, powerful stroke and an uncanny ability to adjust his bat plane in midswing. Will probably start the year in San Antonio, struggle for three weeks, then continue to do his Mike Schmidt imitation on all available pitching, and then it’s on to Albuquerque. Will seize the Dodger third base job in 1999. His defensive shortcomings are easily fixed, so don’t be put off by reports of problems. Won’t walk as much as projected—my software must have missed some dosage of something.

1999 Beltre vs. Rolen is going to be the National League's A-Rod vs. Nomar for years to come. The Bonilla trade removes a convenient excuse for the Dodgers to mess with him, although I expect him to hit enough next year to make it a non-issue. Better defensive player than the numbers above indicate, with a strong arm. Might already be the best player on the team.

2000 What isn’t in dispute in the Beltre case is his real birth date of April 7, 1979. This means that last year he was a 20-year-old putting up a .263 EqA with fair defense. That separates him from Scott Rolen and puts him on par with Andruw Jones and Alex Rodriguez as the most valuable properties in baseball...


I didn't realize his defense was in question early on.

The odd thing is that it took him many years - other than the one career year -- to hit at a level close to what was expected of him.
   21. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4749042)
just to pile on, 4272 is all of Beltre's TBs, 3b or not, that makes him 5th all time among player who played 50%+ of their games at 3b

BBREF says 4112 at 3b
Brett had 3286
Chipper 3925
Schmidt 4071
Matthews 3899
Brooks 4254
Boggs 3752

Can't figure out how this is calculated: BB-Ref has Schmidt with 4071 as a third baseman,

I don't know where you're getting this because I went to BBREF and it has Schmidt at 4122 as a 3b (career splits page)
   22. Walt Davis Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:47 PM (#4749047)
I wasn't aware we had found contexts in which historical accuracy (y'know, facts) didn't make sense. :-)
   23. Batman Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:50 PM (#4749049)
Ichiro could calculate total bases if he wanted to.
   24. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 11, 2014 at 05:59 PM (#4749053)
The odd thing is that it took him many years - other than the one career year -- to hit at a level close to what was expected of him.


at 21 he hit .290/.360/.475
then he didn't come within 100 OPS points of that until his career year.

aside from 2004 he just never hit in Dodger Stadium, he never hit in Safeco either, but luvs Arlington.
In 1999 as a 20 year old hit .294/.372/.467 on the road
in 2000 he hit 298/.362/.511
in 2001 he hit 294/.338/.476
in 2002 he hit .285/.311/.484
in 2003 he hit .265/.309/.441
in 2004 he hit .342/.404/.645 (best road performance)
in 2005 he hit .248/.295/.440
in 2006 he hit .283/.343/.462
in 2007 he hit .288/.320/.538
in 2008 he hit .292/.349/.512
in 2009 he hit .279/.324/.393
in 2010 he hit .327/.370/.583
in 2011 he hit .271/.297/.440 (1st year he hit better at home)
in 2012 he hit .295/.328/.521 (2nd year he hit better at home)
in 2013 he hit .307/.367/.502 (3rd year he hit better at home)
in 2014 he's hitting .305/.361/.467 (4th year hes hitting better at home)
   25. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 06:05 PM (#4749056)
Can't figure out how this is calculated: BB-Ref has Schmidt with 4071 as a third baseman,

I don't know where you're getting this because I went to BBREF and it has Schmidt at 4122 as a 3b (career splits page)


No it doesn't. It has 4071.
   26. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: July 11, 2014 at 06:10 PM (#4749059)
Aramis Ramirez is eighth? Wow!
   27. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: July 11, 2014 at 06:11 PM (#4749060)
No it doesn't. It has 4071


you are correct, and in my little chart it correctly says 4071...

so, er, I, plead brain fart.
   28. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 06:32 PM (#4749076)
Aramis Ramirez is eighth? Wow!


Well, he's eighth in this silly little ranking of TB amassed in seasons where one was more 3B than anywhere else unless you split your time among 2 or more teams in which case refer to appendix D for further instructions. I don't know what his real ranking is.
   29. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: July 11, 2014 at 06:47 PM (#4749084)
Of all the possible ways one could compile this data, this one is by far the dumbest. Mathews's time as an OF in Milwaukee count toward his TB as a 3B, as does his time as a 1B in Detroit. But his time as a 3B in Houston don't.

It's the kind of list that would make sense to put together in the '80s, when you don't have a statistical breakdown of every boxscore of the last several decades freely available. In 2014, though, we do have that, and it should be used in situations like this.
   30. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 11, 2014 at 07:06 PM (#4749088)
It's the kind of list that would make sense to put together in the '80s, when you don't have a statistical breakdown of every boxscore of the last several decades freely available.


Sure, but even back then people understood the difference between "accomplishment as an X" and "accomplishments in a season where one was primarily an X" I mean, everyone understood that Johnny Bench was not the single season HR by a catcher record holder, Roy Campanella was.
   31. Copronymus Posted: July 11, 2014 at 07:14 PM (#4749092)
Walter Johnson. He played 13 games in the OF, so it's likely he didn't get all 795 as a pitcher, but the second place guy is over 250 behind him.


One of my favorite things is how he's got 13 oWAR. That's basically what Bill Buckner put up, and yet being probably the best hitting pitcher qua pitcher ever is barely even notable among Big Train accomplishments.
   32. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: July 11, 2014 at 08:41 PM (#4749145)
One of my favorite things is how he's got 13 oWAR. That's basically what Bill Buckner put up, and yet being probably the best hitting pitcher qua pitcher ever is barely even notable among Big Train accomplishments.

Heck, he's got two individual seasons with more pitching WAR than that.
   33. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: July 11, 2014 at 09:23 PM (#4749166)
I also read it as "38 total bases". I thought, "What, in a game?! That's incredible!"

Then I thought come on, no way. Maybe a doubleheader.
   34. Howie Menckel Posted: July 11, 2014 at 10:04 PM (#4749189)
Gammons Daily should have his children taken away - but only in the years in which his kids were supposed to spend the majority of their time with him, unless they split their time among 2 or more parents in which case refer to appendix D for further instructions.

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