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Wednesday, February 02, 2011

After trading for Ozzie Guillen, former GM says was scared

Roland searched the continent for the man who’d look like…Scobie Breasley?

Former White Sox GM Roland Hemond said that after trading for Ozzie Guillen in 1984, he was nervous.

“I enlisted Jerry (Krause) to go find the best shortstop he could in the Triple-A ranks, and maybe we could make a trade and bring in a shortstop that we thought we needed,” Hemond said at Sunday night’s Pitch & Hit Club banquet. “He watched Ozzie Guillen for a week in Las Vegas. And every day (Krause) would call me and say, ‘That little guy can play.’ I never asked how much he weighed or anything, as long as Jerry said he could play.

“We traded LaMarr Hoyt for Ozzie Guillen, sight unseen on my part. When Ozzie showed up at spring training straight from Venezuela, and I was told he was in the clubhouse, I went down to greet him and give him a good handshake. And he was sitting at the training table … with his shirt off and his baseball trousers on. I looked at that skinny kid, and I said, ‘Oh, I am so happy to have you here.’ Then I went into the office and said, ‘I’m scared. I think we just signed a jockey.’ Anyway, he became the Rookie of the Year.”

Repoz Posted: February 02, 2011 at 12:11 PM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: history, white sox

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1. asinwreck Posted: February 02, 2011 at 02:07 PM (#3741521)

He found him in Caracas, on a ballfield mouthing off.

2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 02, 2011 at 02:33 PM (#3741535)

3. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 02, 2011 at 03:12 PM (#3741554)

Was Guillen the centerpiece of the deal?

Yes. I still remember that trade - they talked Guillen up quite a bit.

Hoyt had a cocaine problem that derailed his career. There's some question as to whether Hemond knew that when he traded him.

4. Twoey Guillen Posted: February 02, 2011 at 03:43 PM (#3741578)

Hoyt had a cocaine problem that derailed his career. There's some question as to whether Hemond knew that when he traded him.

Across the border from Tijuana? Must have been personal.

5. McCoy Posted: February 02, 2011 at 03:48 PM (#3741582)

Was Guillen the centerpiece of the deal? Lollar was coming off a pretty good season. Long and Salazar look like throw-ins. Seems odd that teams back in the day picked up guys without knowing much about them. Were they under pressure to deal Hoyt?

It isn't like the White Sox didn't know anything about him. The GM didn't know much about him other than what he was told about him and I'm willing to bet that happens a lot even still.

6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 02, 2011 at 03:50 PM (#3741584)

It isn't like the White Sox didn't know anything about him. The GM didn't know much about him other than what he was told about him and I'm willing to bet that happens a lot even still.

Why didn't they just Google him?

7. you got a STEAGLES? you're gonna need a STEAGLES. Posted: February 02, 2011 at 04:04 PM (#3741591)

Why didn't they just Google him?

or look up his videos on youtube. i mean, come on. this is how rapists get traded.

8. asinwreck Posted: February 02, 2011 at 05:11 PM (#3741635)

Guillen was hyped at the time, and I remember media types being excited that a slick-fielding shortstop named Ozzie was coming to Chicago.

Hoyt grew so obese in 1984 that he had difficulty raising his leg high enough to repeat his delivery. (Even on the mid-80s Sox, that was simply too fat.) Whether or not Hemond and LaRussa knew about the cocaine, they had sufficient concerns about Hoyt's conditioning to shop him.

9. McCoy Posted: February 02, 2011 at 05:30 PM (#3741651)

Obviously he wasn't using enough cocaine if he was getting that fat.

10. Walt Davis Posted: February 02, 2011 at 07:16 PM (#3741773)

Guillen's ROY line: 273/291/358, 74 OPS+ ... ahh, times were simpler then.

he beat out Teddy Higuera who went 15-8 in 212 IP with a 108 ERA+.

Then again the NL RoY was Vince Coleman (267/320/335, 84 OPS+ with 110 steals). He was a unanimous choice over 20-game winner Tom Browning. You'll have to forgive us, we used to think that stolen bases were the headline not the footnote.

11. Christopher Linden Posted: February 02, 2011 at 07:47 PM (#3741802)

Guillen's ROY (for that matter, the esteem in which he was held for most of his career), underscores how much the game has changed. No one really cared about on-base averages, or even shortstop offense in general beyond being able to hit for a decent BA. Even nearly half a decade into the Ripken Era shortstops were still expected to do little more than play defense and provide a little speed on the bases. And, hey, Ozzie did hit .273 after all.

Unlikely Guillen gets or keeps a starting job today, let alone wins awards.

Happy Base Ball

12. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: February 02, 2011 at 07:48 PM (#3741805)

The White Sox traded another no-hit shortstop who became a manager and is associated with profanity to get Hoyt in the first place. That's the circle of life.

13. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: February 02, 2011 at 08:05 PM (#3741816)

Unlikely Guillen gets or keeps a starting job today, let alone wins awards.

Elvis Andrus's age-21 season wasn't that different from Guillen's, except with OBP and slugging switched.

14. Christopher Linden Posted: February 02, 2011 at 09:15 PM (#3741911)

I'd argue that Andrus's vastly higher OBP (OBP+ advantage of 105 to 89) does make his season more valuable; it's hard to see how Guillen gets enough of a fielding advantage to make up for that (Andrus has Guillen beaten solidly on WARP). The White Sox improved by 11 games from 1984 and IMS Guillen got a lot of credit for that.

Larger point, though, yeah, my statement might have been too strong.

Happy Base Ball

15. Mark Edward Posted: February 02, 2011 at 09:44 PM (#3741941)

Didn't Bill James say that Ozzie was one of the few players where his glove made up for his horrible hitting stats?

16. Brian

Posted: February 02, 2011 at 09:55 PM (#3741948)

The White Sox traded Lee Elia to get hoyt?

17. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 02, 2011 at 10:08 PM (#3741952)

The White Sox traded Lee Elia to get hoyt?

no, Aaron Boone

18. Christopher Linden Posted: February 02, 2011 at 10:35 PM (#3741966)

Ozzie certainly had the reputation of an outstanding fielder and the metrics seem to agree, but I was responding to the statement that Guillen '85 was comparable to Andrus '10; given His Elvisness's advantage in on-base skills, Guillen would have to be a clearly superior defender to be Andrus's equal, and Andrus has been lauded for his glove since his days in the Atlanta system.

Plus, I don't think anyone expects Andrus to hit for a sub-80 OPS+ again, and if he does his job will likely be in jeopardy. Guillen's bat was at the time seen as adequate enough for a good-glove shortstop, and I don't think people really feel that way anymore. Is there a SS in the game today who would feel secure about his lineup spot with Guillen's bat stats?

Happy Base Ball

19. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 12:45 AM (#3742082)

I saw the headline and thought he was afraid for his safety.

20. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 03, 2011 at 12:52 AM (#3742088)

I saw the headline and thought he was afraid for his safety.

Me too. I also thought he was talking about Guillen the manager.

21. Bob Evans Posted: February 03, 2011 at 01:07 AM (#3742101)

I haven't see Andrus much, but I'm telling you Guillen wasn't just good with the glove. Till he wrecked his knee he was as good as you could want him to be. Then he was useless (which didn't stop them from using him). Higuera should've been ROY, though, of course.

22. Mark Edward Posted: February 03, 2011 at 01:11 AM (#3742106)

Plus, I don't think anyone expects Andrus to hit for a sub-80 OPS+ again, and if he does his job will likely be in jeopardy. Guillen's bat was at the time seen as adequate enough for a good-glove shortstop, and I don't think people really feel that way anymore. Is there a SS in the game today who would feel secure about his lineup spot with Guillen's bat stats?

The '09 Tigers (87 wins) went into the season with Adam Everett as their starting SS. His career line is .243/.294/.348.

The 2010 Angels (80 wins) used Erick Aybar at SS primarily. He hit .253/.306/.330.

The 2010 Cardinals (86 wins) used Brendan Ryan at SS. He hit .223/.279/.294.

That's not even looking at the bad teams.

23. Kiko Sakata

Posted: February 03, 2011 at 01:35 AM (#3742125)

Is there a SS in the game today who would feel secure about his lineup spot with Guillen's bat stats?

The '09 Tigers (87 wins) went into the season with Adam Everett as their starting SS. His career line is .243/.294/.348.

The 2010 Angels (80 wins) used Erick Aybar at SS primarily. He hit .253/.306/.330.

The 2010 Cardinals (86 wins) used Brendan Ryan at SS. He hit .223/.279/.294.

And Adam Everett played 31 games and got 89 PAs with the 2010 Tigers.

And Brendan Ryan got replaced this offseason with Ryan Theriot.

I don't know enough about the Angels or Aybar to know if he's keeping his job with that line.

Sometimes teams accidentally get OPS+'s around 60 from their starting shortstop. Then they go out and replace them.

24. Walt Davis Posted: February 03, 2011 at 06:26 AM (#3742318)

What, am I the only guy here with an active sub to P-I?

2008-10, 300+ games at SS, OPS+:

Izturis 60 (249/296/300)
Renteria 78 (264/316/360)
Betancourt 80 (262/288/384)
Theriot 82 (287/351/347)

Of course there are only 18 guys who meet the criteria. Izturis seems to finally be out of a starting job and Renteria may be as well. If you expand it to 2009-10 and 200+ games, you also pick up Cedeno 72, Ryan 76, Andrus 78. For 2009-10, there are 4 SS with an OBP under 300 and another 4 310 or worse (21 qualifiers).

25. PreservedFish Posted: February 03, 2011 at 07:34 AM (#3742352)

I like the idea of a GM saying, "I need a shortstop, get me the best AAA one available."

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Wednesday, February 02, 2011

After trading for Ozzie Guillen, former GM says was scared

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