Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, November 12, 2012

Aguilera: The Robinson Cano Dilemna

Robbie Cano, don’t you (MLBTR Yankees Facebook page) know!

Over at the MLBTR Yankees Facebook page, one commenter states: He’s a talent that you see every once n a while but if he wants much than I say….let him walk.

We’re not trying to poke fun at this fan’s opinion, but my question is how often is “every once in a while”? Does he mean every few years? Every 20 years? Once in a lifetime?

I’m thinking that Robinson Cano is about as good as any second baseman we can expect to see for the next 15 years, at least.

There are many ways of measuring Robinson Cano’s greatness.

For one, here is how he ranks among Second Baseman of the past 50 years, with at least 750 games played through their Age-29 season, by OPS+

Rk Player OPS+
1 Rod Carew 130
2 Joe Morgan 129
3 Robbie Cano 123
4 Pete Rose 123
5 Bobby Grich 122
6 Craig Biggio 120

I never would have guessed that, over the past 50 years, only 33 second basemen had an OPS+ over 100.

 

 

Repoz Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:07 AM | 88 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. John DiFool2 Posted: November 12, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4300453)
Pedroia is at 117.
   2. villageidiom Posted: November 12, 2012 at 09:52 AM (#4300466)
Pedroia is at 117.
After his age-28 season. Whereas Cano was at 119 after his age-28 season.

Utley was at 126 after his age-28 season, 128 after age-29. Wait, he's not on the list?? (Ah, 735 games played through age 29.)

Although great-hitting 2B are not as uncommon as the article leads us to believe, the catch is that if the Yankees do not retain him they will need someone to play there, and the odds of getting someone close to Cano's caliber are pretty slim. OTOH, I hear that Alfonso Soriano is available.
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:08 AM (#4300473)

DilemMa

   4. Howie Menckel Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:09 AM (#4300475)

It definitely LOOKS better as "dilemna," though.

Turns out some of us may have been taught the wrong spelling, for some reason. I remember being shocked decades ago that I had it wrong

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/is-it-dilemma-or-dilemna.aspx

   5. SoSH U at work Posted: November 12, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4300477)
I've long wondered why so many people misspell dilemma.

   6. Greg K Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4300503)
I've long wondered why so many people misspell dilemma.

I only really learned because of the "dilemma" class of card in the Star Trek: TNG Collectible Card Game.

That game was also useful for getting to know the names of the ensigns who manned the helm in each episode. So really, two practical benefits from one card game!

Of course previous to that I could never remember if the L or the M was doubled. Dillema, Dilema, or Dilemma...I think I'd pronounce them all roughly the same so there's no help there. I have no idea where Dilemna comes from, I've never seen that mistake before.

EDIT: I should note that this dilemma epiphany and Star Trek card gaming occurred quite a while ago.
   7. RJ in TO Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4300506)
EDIT: I should note that this dilemma epiphany and Star Trek card gaming occurred quite a while ago.

Sure it did. A long, long time ago, like last Tuesday.
   8. RJ in TO Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4300507)
Also, the Yankees are idiots if they let Cano walk. The guy is a hell of a hitter, a solid fielder, durable as all hell - especially for a second baseman - and there's not going to be anything close to his talents available at the position on the FA market. All it will cost the is money, and money really isn't ever going to be an issue for the Yankees.
   9. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4300510)
I have never heard about any dilemma controversy.
   10. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4300514)
Why a dilemma dilemma? Dilemma = two lemmas of equivalent strength.
   11. Swedish Chef Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4300536)
Why a dilemma dilemma? Dilemma = two lemmas of equivalent strength.

The nice thing with maths is that they never have dilemmas despite having tons of lemmas. Of course, if mathematicians ever found two contradictory lemmas arising from basic axioms the game would be up and they all would have to go work at Walmart, so they don't look too hard for them.
   12. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4300569)
Well, if they're not sure about resigning Cano and they want to get rid of A-Rod's contract, I'm sure Kasten would approve of taking the entirety of both contracts as a package deal. Would even give up Dee Gordon and a couple of prospects.
   13. OCD SS Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4300570)
What are the Yankees going to spend the money on if not Cano? Can they afford Granderson and Cano and still get under the CBT in 2014? If not it seems like it would make more sense to sign Cano, shift Gardner to CF, and then replace Granderson with a cheaper LF option.
   14. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 12, 2012 at 12:53 PM (#4300573)
I have never heard of spelling "dilemma" with an N before. Do people who do this also pronounce it that way?

Usually mistakes are made in the opposite direction, making the word easier to say by deleting phonemes.
   15. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4300576)
What are the Yankees going to spend the money on if not Cano?


Jeffrey Loria's new yacht, a new private jet for David Glass, another winter home for Stuart Sternberg, the possibilities are endless.
   16. Darren Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4300578)
The real question with any 2b is how far into his 30s he'll last. Cano is bigger and stronger than most 2b, more like a Jeff Kent, so he seems like he may be an exception to this rule. He seems like as good of a bet as anyone to be worth a long-term deal.
   17. CONservative governMENt! Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4300588)
Cano's association with the collective postseason failure and frustration over ARod's contract are affecting perceptions as to what Cano is worth.

Seems like they've become risk-averse since Igawa, passing on Chapman, Darvish, Cespedes. I can see them doing something similar with long-term contracts for established major leaguers.
   18. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4300591)
"Dilemna" has been around for as long as I can remember. I'm positive it was spelled that way on a spelling bee when I was in grade school (which I got "wrong"), so I've assumed that's how it was spelled for my entire life. I'm also sure that I've seen it spelled that way in lots of newspapers.

This is a great shock to me.

Edit: I should note that I don't think I've ever actually typed/written the word before. I've said it, and seen it, but not used it.

   19. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4300611)
I've never seen "Dilemna" written that way. It seems totally bizarre to me, who pronounces that word with an "n" in it?

Seems like they've become risk-averse since Igawa, passing on Chapman, Darvish, Cespedes. I can see them doing something similar with long-term contracts for established major leaguers.
What? If you want to say Igawa scared them off international free agents, that's one thing but since Igawa's deal they've signed--both for good and for bad--the new A-Rod contract, CC's original and modified contracts, and the Teixeira and Burnett deals. There's nothing in the Yankees' recent history that suggests they are averse to long-term deals to established MLB players.
   20. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: November 12, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4300623)
"Dilemna" has been around for as long as I can remember. I'm positive it was spelled that way on a spelling bee when I was in grade school (which I got "wrong"), so I've assumed that's how it was spelled for my entire life. I'm also sure that I've seen it spelled that way in lots of newspapers.

Following the link posted earlier, and poking around, it was apparently spelled this way in Robinson Crusoe in 1719. So yes, it's been around a while. It's very strange for a misspelling to be that common for that long and yet never make it into the dictionary. If not as an outright correct spelling, at least as an acceptable alternative.

I have never heard of spelling "dilemma" with an N before. Do people who do this also pronounce it that way?

No, people are assuming it's like "column" or "autumn".
   21. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4300636)
In a similar vein, I've seen the mistake between dominant and dominate and lose and loose so often that I started to think that I was wrong.
   22. CONservative governMENt! Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4300638)
I thought by saying "I can see them doing something similar for established major leaguers" it was clear that I meant a future shift in response to ARod, Teixeira, et al.

I won't mind if they let Cano walk if he holds out for an 8-year deal.
   23. bjhanke Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4300653)
Wikipedia, not normally a dictionary, has an article for "dilemma" that actually takes some time to explain the "dilemna" discussion. Seems pretty authoritative, too, especially for a spelling entry in Wiki. - Brock Hanke
   24. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4300661)
There should be enough money to re-sign Cano, probably with a backloaded deal that stays around ~$15M per year until some of that A-Rod/Tex/CC money starts coming off the payroll. Of course, no one can be all that sure how the new revenues will affect the bidding.
   25. andrewberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4300666)
Was really into this whole story until I saw that it was not written by Rick Aguilera.
   26. Howie Menckel Posted: November 12, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4300667)
The confusion over "dilemna" likely is age-related.

Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version? Raise your hand.

   27. Darren Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4300704)
Not sure how a backloaded deal helps much, as they use AAV for the payroll tax. I can't see how Canoe gets less than something 6/$130 overall.
   28. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4300712)
I can't see how Canoe gets less than something 6/$130 overall.
If he goes for less than 7/160, I'll be surprised.
   29. Darren Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4300727)
Oh yeah, well, I'll be flabbergasted if he gets less than 8/177!
   30. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 12, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4300731)
Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version? Raise your hand.

Raised. And I was a nerdy dictionary reader from age 7 or 8.
   31. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4300766)
I'm (well) under 50, and I had never heard this spelling. I don't know what that does to the sample.
   32. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 12, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4300768)

I'm (well) under 50, and I had never heard this spelling. I don't know what that does to the sample.
   33. Darren Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4300818)
Never heard of it. But I must say, if the writer knew of its use in Robinson Crusoe and then intentionally used in an article on Robinson Cano, well then kudos are in order.
   34. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4300829)
The confusion over "dilemna" likely is age-related.

Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version? Raise your hand.


Never heard it spelled that way for any reason other than a slip of the finger on a keyboard. Just think of pronouncing it "dilemna" and its absurdity becomes evident.

Now conflating "disinterested" with "uninterested", OTOH.....but therein lies age-related rants about trespassing on lawns, and between you and I, I won't go there.
   35. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4300833)
Was really into this whole story until I saw that it was not written by Rick Aguilera.

Aguilermna.
   36. SteveM. Posted: November 12, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4300835)
Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version? Raise your hand.

Raised. And I was a nerdy dictionary reader from age 7 or 8.


I am 42 and I have never heard of this. Of course, I had a completely Catholic Education K-12. Those nuns didn't go in for fancy new educational trends.
   37. SoSH U at work Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4300840)
Never heard it spelled that way for any reason other than a slip of the finger on a keyboard. Just think of pronouncing it "dilemna" and its absurdity becomes evident.


It is absurd, but as Howie's 4 and Brock's wikipedia entry note, it's also a very real thing. I'm surprised so many of you weren't aware of this bizarre alt spelling.

   38. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:12 PM (#4300852)
Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version?

I'm nearly 50, have lived in U.S.A, England and now Australia(so have experience with 3 types of English!) and have never come across that before. It sound ridiculous in spite of Brock's Wiki research.
   39. Mayor Blomberg Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:33 PM (#4300860)
Over 50, English professor, and don't ever recall seeing "dilemna" before this discussion.
   40. Steve Treder Posted: November 12, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4300862)
Over 50, not an English professor (but I was an English major very briefly many eons ago), and I've never encountered this spelling. Or perhaps I have and just forgotten it, which is why you can never count on the answers of anyone over 50.
   41. Howie Menckel Posted: November 12, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4300883)

I served - er, attended - 12 years of Catholic school, am 51, and somehow I used to make this mistake after graduation.

Could be a regional thing, too. But interesting to see that many have and many have NOT heard of it. Some English major will do the definitive paper on this, somnday....

   42. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 07:14 PM (#4300891)
I'm under 50 and have never encountered "dilemna" in real life, although I have read about the misspelling before.
   43. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: November 12, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4300904)
Well under 50 and never encountered this before today.
   44. Der-K, the bloodied charmer Posted: November 12, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4300914)
39, nerdy dictionary reader / decent at spelling bees as a kid,... and spelled this word with an 'n' until seeing it flagged by spell check a few years back. Never understood how I could have gotten this wrong for as long as I did (was unaware that it was a rogue alt spelling). Pronounced it as 'm'.
   45. Howie Menckel Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:23 AM (#4301092)

yes, always pronounced with an 'm', but felt like column or autumn, as Greg Pope notes in Post 20.

   46. Walt Davis Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:27 AM (#4301094)
Although there is "damned", seems to me that the "n" is always pronounced in similar existing words -- calumny, autumnal, damnation, condemnation -- so it should be in the misspelled "dilemna." No wonder you folks never found out you were misspelling it if you were also mispronouncing the misspelling. :-)

There's an Alanis Morrisette song in there somewhere.
   47. Coot Veal and Cot Deal's cols=“100” rows=“20” Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4301102)
I am 42 and I have never heard of this. Of course, I had a completely Catholic Education K-12. Those nuns didn't go in for fancy new educational trends.


damn near sixty here, taught by nuns, and can spell... I always thought it was "dilemna" and figured that the folks that wrote "dilemma" were the same folks that wrote "dominate"...

ya live and learn.
   48. Greg K Posted: November 13, 2012 at 09:01 AM (#4301166)
Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version? Raise your hand.

I'm under 30 and have never heard of it. As the Robinson Crusoe cite demonstrates it's not really new. Perhaps it's one of those cyclical things?
   49. Greg K Posted: November 13, 2012 at 09:03 AM (#4301168)
Now conflating "disinterested" with "uninterested", OTOH.....but therein lies age-related rants about trespassing on lawns, and between you and I, I won't go there.

Another cyclical one I think. Though I'm not sure anyone here is old enough to remember when the modern "normative" meanings were reversed a few centuries ago.
   50. Greg K Posted: November 13, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4301176)
Other fun 17th century words that have found new life in present day youth culture: "unfriend" and "unpossible".
   51. yo la tengo Posted: November 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4301203)
I'm dangerously close to 50 and I keep getting corrected by WORD when I spell it with an n. It just looks more appealing somehow. Also on the grammar front, yesterday I was corrected by a colleague when I said that we would have a committee meeting in spite of some other conflict that had popped up. She told me we would have the meeting despite the other conflict. I realize how silly my phrase sounds after being corrected but I am sure I have misused that phrase MANY times in my life.
   52. philphan Posted: November 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4301380)
Fascinating. Over 50, and a professional editor for 30+ years. But I have never heard of this problem, and have never encountered "dilemna," as far as I can recall.
   53. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4301405)
I've told my history of "delimna" back at #18, but for the demographic research being done, I'm 41, public education, Canadian, Bachelor's degree (BMath), and usually proud of my spelling (as I dominated spelling bees in my school primary school).
   54. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4301419)
I'm 33, got a great U.S. public school education, and have heard of "dilemna". For a while I had to look it up in the dictionary every time I wrote the word to make sure I was spelling it correctly. I suspect I was taught to spell it "mn" at some point, which is why my brain doesn't automatically process that spelling as wrong.

In a similar vein, I've seen the mistake between dominant and dominate and lose and loose so often that I started to think that I was wrong.

I hate it when people use "dominate" instead of "dominant". And working in the world of Powerpoint pitchbooks, I see people make that mistake a lot.

The one that always bugs me is "lead" vs. "led". People often write the former when they mean the latter. I suspect it is because the element is spelled like "lead" and pronounced like "led", which confuses people. Or because people are stupid.
   55. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4301423)

Also on the grammar front, yesterday I was corrected by a colleague when I said that we would have a committee meeting in spite of some other conflict that had popped up. She told me we would have the meeting despite the other conflict. I realize how silly my phrase sounds after being corrected but I am sure I have misused that phrase MANY times in my life.

Funny, I saw someone make that same mistake in a presentation yesterday. I thought about correcting them but decided it wasn't worth it.
   56. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: November 13, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4301435)
I suspect it is because the element is spelled like "lead" and pronounced like "led", which confuses people.

Maybe they just hate Led Zeppelin.

I'm 28, I was also a dominant spelling bee force in elementary school and middle school, and I've never heard of "dilemna".
   57. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4301458)
I'm 37, won a vocabulary award in Grade 5, and have never heard of dilemna either.

My biggest language peeve is when people use "loan" as a verb. It is a noun only, the verb is lend/lent.
   58. Tuque Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4301497)
I don't remember ever seeing "dilemna" before, and I probably wouldn't have even noticed it here if people hadn't pointed it out. But now it makes my brain grind every time I see it.
   59. Randy Jones Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4301503)
Never seen the "dilemna" thing before.

My biggest language peeve is when people use "loan" as a verb. It is a noun only, the verb is lend/lent.

Merriam-Webster lists loan as both noun and verb.
   60. DKDC Posted: November 13, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4301513)
I can't really recall seeing someone use dominate when they mean dominant. Maybe I've seen it once or twice, I guess, but not enough for it to stick with me or for it to seem like a "thing" to me.

Is this really that common? Is it a spelling error/mental typing thing, or do people actually think dominate is the right word? Sometimes my thoughts will cross and I'll type the wrong word, but I catch it immediately in a proofread.
   61. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: November 13, 2012 at 03:03 PM (#4301522)
44 years old. Grew up in Southwest Louisiana and have never heard of "dilemna" until this thread... which means I'll probably notice it in 3 or 4 different places over the next week.

My current grammar pet peeves: Misuse of loose/lose and breath/breathe.
   62. SoSH U at work Posted: November 13, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4301532)
Is this really that common? Is it a spelling error/mental typing thing, or do people actually think dominate is the right word? Sometimes my thoughts will cross and I'll type the wrong word, but I catch it immediately in a proofread.


I saw it on this site in the past week or so. It's fairly common. I don't think it begins with thinking the proper word is "dominate," (with the long "a" sound), but by not hearing the "n" in dominant and thus spelling it to match how they hear/speak it.

As for my gripes, I don't like the unneccessary "ta" added to preventive, which is such a nice, crisp word.



   63. JJ1986 Posted: November 13, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4301547)
The thing that bugs me far more than anything else is when people use "less" instead of "fewer".
   64. Tippecanoe Posted: November 13, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4301591)
I'm 50 [note: happy 50th, Jamie Moyer], and I'm sure I was spelling it the wrong way until probably 20 years ago. I can even remember being confused about the etymology, since it seemed from the pronunciation that it should have been about a pair of lemmas.

Speaking of odd word usage, yesterday, I clicked on weather.com and the headline said "FLOODING WRECKS HAVOC IN VENICE"... I suppose I can be thankful it didn't create havoc.
   65. Sweatpants Posted: November 13, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4301597)
Also on the grammar front, yesterday I was corrected by a colleague when I said that we would have a committee meeting in spite of some other conflict that had popped up. She told me we would have the meeting despite the other conflict. I realize how silly my phrase sounds after being corrected but I am sure I have misused that phrase MANY times in my life.
What's the difference between the two? I always thought they were interchangeable.
   66. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 13, 2012 at 06:31 PM (#4301752)
Somewhere in the neighborhood of 50, grew up in the NE, both parents were English teachers, and dilemna is the only spelling I recall. A friend and I even used to (this would have been third grade or so) mock the silly (but, we thought, correct) spelling and in conversation pronounced it "duh-lem-NUH".

Never even noticed it spelled with two ems until today, or just assumed two ems was the misspelling. I was fine making the move from "Oriental" to "Asian", but if Dafoe had dilemnas, it's good enough for mne.
   67. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 13, 2012 at 06:44 PM (#4301769)
My biggest language peeve is when people use "loan" as a verb. It is a noun only

Never heard this rule before either.

Also on the grammar front, yesterday I was corrected by a colleague when I said that we would have a committee meeting in spite of some other conflict that had popped up. She told me we would have the meeting despite the other conflict.

Never heard this rule before either.

I can't really recall seeing someone use dominate when they mean dominant. Maybe I've seen it once or twice, I guess, but not enough for it to stick with me or for it to seem like a "thing" to me.

Seen this a bunch of times. Never dilemna.
   68. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 06:58 PM (#4301786)
I am 32, and had never seen it spelled "dilemna" until yesterday. I find it mystifying that so many people have.
   69. The Ghost fouled out, but stays in the game Posted: November 13, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4301813)
50++, never saw it with an "n" that I recall. However, I can see how one could speed-read past it without noticing.
   70. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 13, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4301850)

Is this really that common? Is it a spelling error/mental typing thing, or do people actually think dominate is the right word? Sometimes my thoughts will cross and I'll type the wrong word, but I catch it immediately in a proofread.

I spent a year working for a non-native English speaker who frequently made this mistake and I would always have to fix it. I am sure she thought "dominate" was the correct spelling since it happened so often. She never seemed to notice that it had been changed in the final materials. I have since noticed it occasionally in correcting a subordinate's work, but I think they get it after I correct it once.
   71. yo la tengo Posted: November 13, 2012 at 07:50 PM (#4301851)
#66 - Jack, I began to think, after I was corrected, that 'in spite of' certainly sounds as if I would do that in opposition to the other event where 'despite' seems less hostile.
   72. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: November 13, 2012 at 07:53 PM (#4301855)
40, and knew a couple of people who actually pronounced it with an N occasionally as a joke back when I was in college.
   73. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: November 13, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4301858)
#66 - Jack, I began to think, after I was corrected, that 'in spite of' certainly sounds as if I would do that in opposition to the other event where 'despite' seems less hostile.
There are definitely flavorings like this throughout language, where correct usage sounds combative. "In spite of" can bring the taste of "spite" while "despite" weakens it a little. In this regard I'm all ears.
   74. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4301985)
Somewhere in the neighborhood of 50, grew up in the NE, both parents were English teachers, and dilemna is the only spelling I recall. A friend and I even used to (this would have been third grade or so) mock the silly (but, we thought, correct) spelling and in conversation pronounced it "duh-lem-NUH".


57, grew up in NE, and clearly remember seeing it as dilemna growing up, and having it pronounced "dilem-nuh" in a jokey way, by me and others.
   75. Srul Itza Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:16 PM (#4302075)

NE should be North East, not New England.
   76. RollingWave Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4302088)
GrammarThinkfactory.org

   77. puck Posted: November 13, 2012 at 11:36 PM (#4302092)
Is this really that common? Is it a spelling error/mental typing thing, or do people actually think dominate is the right word? Sometimes my thoughts will cross and I'll type the wrong word, but I catch it immediately in a proofread.

It seems to be cropping up more recently.
   78. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:38 AM (#4302129)
I imagine that people who think "dominate" is an adjective are actually thinking of the word "dominant", but don't realize there's an N before the T. People commonly pronounce it as if it was "dominat", because having those two Ns at the beginning and end of a single unaccented syllable is a bit awkward. So when you see "dominate" as an adjective the person thinks it has an unaccented final syllable, like "corporate" or "celibate".

That's my theory anyway.
   79. SoSH U at work Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:46 AM (#4302136)

That's my theory anyway.


Mine too.
   80. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 14, 2012 at 12:47 AM (#4302138)
Oh right, I didn't see your post above! We have reached a great mind consensus.
   81. Dr. Vaux Posted: November 14, 2012 at 01:39 AM (#4302159)
32, grade school in the upper midwest, college in the northeast and mid-Atlantic, have done some professional writing and editing. I've never heard of "dilemna" before this discussion.
   82. tshipman Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:07 AM (#4302172)
Not really on point, but sort of tangentially related:

Anyone over the age of about 40, how do you pronounce this word: "often"

This word is undergoing a shift in pronunciation. In 20 years, everyone will think you don't know how it's pronounced.
   83. rlc Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:26 AM (#4302175)
Anyone over 50 who has never heard of this spelling version? Raise your hand.


50, educated in New Jersey public schools, had never noticed the spelling "dilemna" before this thread. Doesn't mean I haven't encountered it - for all I know I've been whole word reading past it all my life.
   84. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:52 AM (#4302176)
Never heard of "dilemna" before today.
Had a TA in law school who would emphasize the n in "damned" just to mess with people. That's the closest I've got, right there.
   85. Squash Posted: November 14, 2012 at 02:54 AM (#4302177)
I prefer the word "conundrum", so this whole conversation is moot. However I always thought it was "dilemna", and have probably used both.
   86. Greg K Posted: November 14, 2012 at 04:39 AM (#4302186)
I prefer the word "conundrum", so this whole conversation is moot. However I always thought it was "dilemna", and have probably used both.

Another word I learned to spell through Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Re: Often, one thing I've learned from living in the UK is that us North Americans are really afraid of the letter "T". Quite often I soften my t's into d's, or in the case of "often" just get rid of it altogether.
   87. Rants Mulliniks Posted: November 14, 2012 at 10:07 AM (#4302236)
As a verb, loan is attested from 1540s, perhaps earlier, and formerly was current, but has now been supplanted in England by lend, though it survives in American English.


From Online Etymology Dictionary

I guess being an English colony is why I hate loan as a verb.

I say both "offen" and "of-ten".
   88. SoSH U at work Posted: November 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4302272)

I say both "offen" and "of-ten".


I thought about it last night, and I realized I'm also bioften.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Rough Carrigan
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 4-23-2014
(8 - 5:36pm, Apr 23)
Last: Eric J can SABER all he wants to

NewsblogJosh Lueke Is A Rapist, You Say? Keep Saying It.
(166 - 5:36pm, Apr 23)
Last: vivaelpujols

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for 4/23/2014
(74 - 5:36pm, Apr 23)
Last: Walks Clog Up the Bases

NewsblogOTP April 2014: BurstNET Sued for Not Making Equipment Lease Payments
(2318 - 5:35pm, Apr 23)
Last: 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people

NewsblogMLB takes a swing at the video game business
(20 - 5:32pm, Apr 23)
Last: Best Regards, President of Comfort

NewsblogThe Five “Acts” of Ike Davis’s Career, and Why Trading Ike Was a Mistake
(43 - 5:31pm, Apr 23)
Last: thetailor

NewsblogDoyel: How was Gerrit Cole not suspended? He basically started the brawl
(9 - 5:29pm, Apr 23)
Last: Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad)

NewsblogRoyals G.M. Dayton Moore believes hitting will come around
(17 - 5:28pm, Apr 23)
Last: Shibal

Newsblog4 balls, you’re out!
(43 - 5:06pm, Apr 23)
Last: A triple short of the cycle

NewsblogMike Trout And Bryce Harper Are Baseball’s Best Young Position-Player Duo Ever
(16 - 5:03pm, Apr 23)
Last: Steve Treder

NewsblogThe rise and fall of Ike Davis' New York Mets | Capital New York
(25 - 5:03pm, Apr 23)
Last: formerly dp

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread - April 2014
(492 - 4:44pm, Apr 23)
Last: NJ in DC (Now unemployed!)

NewsblogTwo Brewers, two Pirates suspended for fracas | MLB.com: News
(17 - 4:33pm, Apr 23)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogOT: The NHL is finally back thread, part 2
(196 - 4:15pm, Apr 23)
Last: Fear is Moses Taylor's Bacon Bits

NewsblogMatt Harvey of New York Mets deletes Twitter account after controversial tweet
(17 - 4:09pm, Apr 23)
Last: dr. scott

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

 

Page rendered in 0.5825 seconds
52 querie(s) executed