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Sunday, May 06, 2012

ajc: Chipper rips Moyer over sign-stealing accusation

Distractions can cause Senior Moments!

“It got us all motivated — he woke a sleeping giant,” Jones said. “We didn’t do much before that point, and after that point I believe we scored 11 runs…. Everybody knew what was going on.”

Jones was at second base after hitting an RBI double in the fifth inning that cut the lead to 6-2. Television cameras showed Jones and Moyer exchange words while Moyer was standing on the mound, about to deliver a 3-and-0 pitch to Brian McCann. Jones said the 49-year-old left-hander accused him of relaying the catcher’s pitch sign to McCann.

“What incenses me is that I’m having a conversation with the shortstop [Colorado’s Troy Tulowitzki], not paying attention to [Moyer], and I get accused basically of cheating,” Jones said Sunday morning, before the series finale. “And that’s wrong. I’ve never accused him of doctoring a baseball or out milligramming somebody.

“That just doesn’t make sense – it’s a 6-2 ballgame and a 3-0 count. My hitter is taking no matter what in that situation. Because we play the game right. And he thinks I’m giving signs? He’s paranoid.”

...At one point, he got up from his seat in the visitor’s clubhouse Sunday to demonstrate what happened

“I literally am standing on second base and I’m talking to Tulo, and I turn around and [Moyer] is coming set,” he said. “So I get ready and take my lead, and [Moyer] goes, ‘I see you.’ And I go, what the [bleep] do you see? What the [bleep] are you talking about?’ I go, ‘I was [bleeping] talking to your shortstop. And he said something else with his back turned, like he yelled but didn’t face me. I go, that’s [bleeping] B.S. And I turned around to Tulo and Tulo’s like [holds hands up].”

Repoz Posted: May 06, 2012 at 05:22 PM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves

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   1. Justin T is expanding the aperture of awareness Posted: May 06, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4124787)
Wow, lots of golden quotes in the article of you click through.
   2. Shock Posted: May 06, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4124789)
protest too much
   3. Comic Strip Person Posted: May 06, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4124799)
The problem is clearly young punks who don't know how to play the game the right way.
   4. Bob Tufts Posted: May 06, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4124803)
What's wrong with stealing signs? Is it wrong for a player to do it, but OK for coaches like Joe Nossek (who was one of the best at it)?

Another unwritten rule that deserves to be shredded.
   5. Srul Itza At Home Posted: May 06, 2012 at 06:10 PM (#4124808)
Chipper's current line: .318/.370/.576/.946, for a 156 OPS+

So why again is this guy retiring after this year?
   6. bobm Posted: May 06, 2012 at 06:40 PM (#4124824)
I’ve never accused him of doctoring a baseball or out milligramming somebody.


Is this some kind of steroid reference?
   7. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: May 06, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4124830)
Wow, lots of golden quotes in the article of you click through.

This is the best quote of all. Thanks, Mr. Moylan!
   8. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: May 06, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4124849)
Is this some kind of steroid reference?
Amphetamine reference, I think
   9. Good cripple hitter Posted: May 06, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4124893)
Is this some kind of steroid reference?


I thought it was a reference to Tom House's famous quote about steroids in baseball: “We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed."
   10. Shock Posted: May 06, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4124998)
I hope this Jones/Moyer thing comes to blows so we can see something like this
   11. zachtoma Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:05 PM (#4125032)
Yeah that was what struck me about this too, I had thought that relaying signs from 2nd base was accepted strategy and not "cheating" - that's why pitchers and catchers have alternate signs.
   12. Jim Wisinski Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4125040)
Yeah that was what struck me about this too, I had thought that relaying signs from 2nd base was accepted strategy and not "cheating" - that's why pitchers and catchers have alternate signs.


It's not illegal in the way that having someone in the stands or a light somewhere in the outfield is, which is something that would get investigated by MLB if an accusation was made. I think it's the kind of thing that will get you drilled with a pitch though if the other team notices you doing it.
   13. Jim Wisinski Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4125044)
“It got us all motivated — he woke a sleeping giant,” Jones said. “We didn’t do much before that point, and after that point I believe we scored 11 runs…. Everybody knew what was going on.”


This is why I could never be a reporter taking quotes in the locker room. I'd be unable to resist asking Jones why the team was unable to play with any motivation before Moyer accused them of stealing signs.
   14. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4125049)
The best part of the story is two fold: 1) Matt Diaz pointing out that the Braves are the only team he's played for who don't steal signs, and that they don't steal signs because Chipper Jones believes that that makes hitters chase bad pitches they'd otherwise spit on, and 2) Chipper pointing out that Moyer's probably paranoid about that sort of not-quite-cheating behavior because he was a Philly for so long, and he just assumes everyone behaves like they do.
   15. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4125059)
Oh, and Troy Tulowitzki throwing Moyer under the bus, too.
   16. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4125063)
Oh, and Troy Tulowitzki throwing Moyer under the bus, too.


Moyer's not a True Rockie.
   17. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4125068)
I admit, I regret that it didn't turn into an old man fight on the mound.
   18. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: May 06, 2012 at 10:19 PM (#4125091)
I admit, I regret that it didn't turn into an old man fight on the mound

only one old man at a time
   19. bobm Posted: May 06, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4125117)
[18] only one old man at a time

Mark your calendar for the rematch: July 27-29.
   20. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 06, 2012 at 11:21 PM (#4125119)
Mark your calendar for the rematch: July 27-29.


Moyer is probably going to be retired by then.
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: May 06, 2012 at 11:29 PM (#4125124)
This is why I could never be a reporter taking quotes in the locker room. I'd be unable to resist asking Jones why the team was unable to play with any motivation before Moyer accused them of stealing signs.


It was extra motivation, they were only giving 100%, that got them to give 110%.
   22. cardsfanboy Posted: May 06, 2012 at 11:30 PM (#4125126)
Moyer is probably going to be retired by then.


Rivera and Chipper will both be out of baseball before Moyer retires.
   23. Loren F. Posted: May 06, 2012 at 11:41 PM (#4125134)
Bryce Harper will be out of baseball before Moyer retires.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: May 07, 2012 at 06:14 AM (#4125172)
That's one problem Moyer does have -- what's he gonna do, hit him with a 67 MPH fastball?
   25. baudib Posted: May 07, 2012 at 06:45 AM (#4125175)
Nobody gives 100%
   26. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: May 07, 2012 at 08:45 AM (#4125196)
Nobody gives 100%


Batman does.
   27. toratoratora Posted: May 07, 2012 at 10:05 AM (#4125236)
"When Moyer came up to bat in the bottom of the fifth inning, Jones said the pitcher stepped out of the batter’s box and had a message for Braves catcher McCann.

“What really kind of gets under my skin is the fact that he told Mac, ‘That’s how people get hurt,’” Jones said."


That's one problem Moyer does have -- what's he gonna do, hit him with a 67 MPH fastball?


"“I tell you what, the next time we face them I’ll stand with my back to him, and see what he says then,” Jones said. “What’s his excuse going to be when he gives it up then? I mean, dude, we don’t need signs, especially for him. I mean, my goodness, every pitch is 78 [mph]. Come on.”"
   28. stanmvp48 Posted: May 07, 2012 at 03:54 PM (#4125581)
Well duh. Obviously the base runner can see how many fingers the catcher holds down. That is why they use more complex signs with a runner on second. Just as everyone can see the third base coaches signs. Seeing them is not stealing them because you don't know what they mean. I saw Moyer's last two starts in person. He went through the Mets line up (six left handed hitters) three times allowing thirteen base runners including a homer and two doubles. He got out of the first with the bases loaded when J Santana lined out directly to the right fielder. They are absolutely stuck for starting pitchers but this can't go on much longer
   29. Greg (U)K Posted: May 07, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4125668)
I'm with #11. I don't quite understand the logic. You mix up the signals with a runner on second because you know he's trying to decode them. Then you get angry when those ones get decoded. If sign-stealing was so taboo wouldn't they just run the normal signs and have a gentleman's agreement not to relay them to the hitter? If, as Sam suggests, the vast majority of teams steal signs then it's not much of an unwritten rule. Kind of sounds more like a pitcher/hitter divide than anything else. I don't know that much about such scandals but do position player team-mates of the aggrieved pitcher ever chime in with support? It seems like part of the game that is encouraged and tacitly accepted by coaches, managers, and players...just not pitchers.
   30. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: May 07, 2012 at 05:44 PM (#4125681)
Morty would say Moyer should sue him. Maybe IP theft?
   31. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: May 07, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4125695)
Most teams will have some sort of system for "stealing signs" when a runner is on second. As Greg points out, this is *why teams have more complicated signs with runners on.* In the linked article Matt Diaz talks about how the Braves are the only team he's played for who don't have a process in place. That indicates pretty strongly that the Rays, Royals and Pirates all steal signs if they can. Diaz' point is that Chipper is the force for Atlanta not stealing signs, because Chipper believes that makes a batter over eager at the plate (having secret information) which leads to him getting himself out. That's awesome in and of itself.

Chipper also notes that the only Braves he's played with who stole signs were Jeff Blauser and Mark Lemke.

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