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Friday, June 12, 2009

AJC:  Mark Bradley All-Trade Friday: Should the Braves deal Jeff Francoeur?

I thought it would work. I thought Jeff Francoeur would remember how to hit and the masses would forget he’d forgotten and all would be bliss for the hometown kid and the team of his dreams. But it’s not working, and I’ve come to believe it won’t.

Too much has happened. He got too big too fast. It wasn’t his fault. He was great from the moment of his big-league arrival in July 2005 and we — meaning the fans and the media and the Braves themselves — loved him and reveled in every detail of his charmed young life. But then, after two mostly solid full seasons, he stopped hitting. And everything changed.

Francoeur was upset when the Braves sent him to Class AA on the Fourth of July. “I don’t think there’s any way I can [feel as warmly toward the organization] 100 percent,” he said in February. “I want to play here forever; I’ve said that all along. But the business part of it is different.”

The Braves weren’t thrilled when Francoeur went to Texas to work with Rangers hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo. Said Terry Pendleton, the Braves’ hitting coach: “I asked Jeff, ‘Why didn’t you come to me?’ Obviously he felt the need to go elsewhere. It’s his winter. [But] it bugged me at first. Not hearing it from him, that got me more than anything. I told him, ‘I thought our relationship was better than that.’ ”

Where once there was sunshine, there’s distrust and frustration. The Braves wonder if Francoeur can be coached. Francoeur wonders if the Braves have his best interests at heart. He tries too hard and falls back on bad habits. The Braves drop him in the order and struggle to be patient. And here he is, batting. 245 with a microscopic on-base percentage of .280. He’s on pace to finish with 11 homers and 71 RBIs — same as he did last year.

Tripon Posted: June 12, 2009 at 06:21 PM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, media, online

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   1. Maxwn Posted: June 12, 2009 at 08:36 PM (#3216609)
But then, after two mostly solid full seasons, he stopped hitting.

Not exactly, although I guess that depends on your definition of mostly solid.
   2. RJ in TO Posted: June 12, 2009 at 08:38 PM (#3216613)
"Great trade. Who'd we get?"
   3. RJ in TO Posted: June 12, 2009 at 08:41 PM (#3216616)
Not exactly, although I guess that depends on your definition of mostly solid.


22/23 year old, putting up a combined 48 HR and 208 RBI, with an average around .280, while playing decent defense, and mot missing any games? By mainstream standards, those are solid numbers. Hell, to a lot of old-school fans, those numbers indicate a future star.
   4. Shock Posted: June 12, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3216618)
Funny that these quotes from Pendleton are coming out now. When the story was "Frenchy has learned to hit again!" And people were talking about Jaramillo, I remember wondering what Pendleton had to say about it and not hearing anything. Now that the story is "Frenchy kind of isn't very good," now the quotes come out.
   5. Maxwn Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:07 PM (#3216647)
By mainstream standards, those are solid numbers.


Yes, I understand, which is why said it depends on your definition. I'll even give him credit for being actually solid in 2007 when he OPS+ed 103. But I refuse to agree with the notion in this article that he used to know how to hit and has forgotten. He used to get by on talent and ???, but his approach has always been terrible and now the talent isn't doing it any more either. I wish I had a nickel for every terrible at-bat I've watched him have.
   6. Craig in MN Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3216649)
The Twins are in kind of the same situation with Delmon Young. It would make for an interesting challenge trade. I'd rather have Young than Francoeur, but I think I could be convinced. Mostly, I think they both need a change of scenery.
   7. Maxwn Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:16 PM (#3216656)
I'd take Delmon Young for Francoeur. Who's Delmon Young?
   8. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:35 PM (#3216665)
22/23 year old, putting up a combined 48 HR and 208 RBI, with an average around .280, while playing decent defense, and mot missing any games? By mainstream standards, those are solid numbers. Hell, to a lot of old-school fans, those numbers indicate a future star.

The problem is that those weren't solid seasons to base a career on. They were good counting seasons only in the abstract. Considering he played a power position and he struggled to get on base, he wasn't very good. And somebody at the AJC could have suggested this belief before all the stupidity the AJC has pumped out for about what? 2, 1.5 years?
   9. Latnam's first name is Bob Lemon's middl Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3216673)
Yes. If anyone would take him, yes. If someone would actually give the Braves something back, then HELL Yes.
   10. flournoy Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:44 PM (#3216674)
#8: You seem to think that someone should have told some guys at the AJC, "Hey, Francoeur secretly sucks, don't write about him like that anymore." I'm sure the AJC would have taken action on that, and axed the story that their readers wanted to read in favor of one they didn't.
   11. RJ in TO Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:45 PM (#3216675)
At this point, even if the only thing they got back in return was the Clap, the Braves should still trade him.
   12. konaforever Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:46 PM (#3216676)
22/23 year old, putting up a combined 48 HR and 208 RBI, with an average around .280, while playing decent defense, and mot missing any games? By mainstream standards, those are solid numbers. Hell, to a lot of old-school fans, those numbers indicate a future star.


Missing in this is the sheer number of plate appearances he had and at bats, which renders his slugging to be much less impressive than the raw 48 homeruns would indicate.
   13. RJ in TO Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:48 PM (#3216680)
Missing in this is the sheer number of plate appearances he had and at bats,


And, to a lot of the mainstream guys, that number will be used to show just how durable he is - he led the league in games played in back-to-back years.
   14. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 12, 2009 at 09:54 PM (#3216686)
Isn't the question actually "Could the Braves trade Jeff Francouer?" The "Should" question would make for a pretty short discussion.
   15. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: June 12, 2009 at 10:00 PM (#3216688)
#8: You seem to think that someone should have told some guys at the AJC, "Hey, Francoeur secretly sucks, don't write about him like that anymore." I'm sure the AJC would have taken action on that, and axed the story that their readers wanted to read in favor of one they didn't.

Is your suggestion that the whole AJC Frenchy campaign was a grab for readership?

My only point is that the site was inundated with AJC articles telling the world how much the local Golden Boy had changed/developed all the while ignoring the fact that the guy sucked for over two seasons. They tried to keep up the Golden Boy banner, but it fell under its weight.

I find it laughable that the AJC now has something about how little the Braves could trade for Frenchy.
   16. JPWF13 Posted: June 12, 2009 at 10:08 PM (#3216694)
I thought that game winning HR last week would buy him a month at least... but he;'s been 5 for 25 since, no XBHs, 4 walks...

2008-2009, I have Francouer being worse by 25.1 runs on offense than replacement (replacement being set at .816 of the average RF).

the next worse OF is Wladimir Balentien at -17.2

Wladdy may actually be worse rate wise- but Frenchie has a PT edge.

the bottom 10:
Jay Payton -9.9
Darin Erstad -10.1
Gary Matthews -10.9
Jacque Jones -11.6
Austin Kearns -14.9
Wily Mo Pena -16.2
Eric Byrnes -16.3
Corey Patterson -17.1
Wladimir Balentie -17.2
Jeff Francoeur -25.1
   17. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: June 12, 2009 at 10:26 PM (#3216708)
I wish I had a nickel for every terrible at-bat I've watched him have.

Eh, at best, you'd've made like $120 by now.
   18. Shock Posted: June 12, 2009 at 10:39 PM (#3216717)

I wish I had a nickel for every terrible at-bat I've watched him have.


Francoeur gets 100,000 of them. . .
   19. Colin Posted: June 12, 2009 at 11:31 PM (#3216772)
I never did expect the AJC to catch on to how sucky Francoeur was in his supposedly "good" seasons. Still, my favorite summary of how awful he was in that big 29 HR/103 RBI sophomore year is that it was a pretty similar season to Andruw Jones' final season as a Brave. Stenchy posted an 87 OPS+, to AJ's 88. Stenchy hit one HR every 22.4 AB, AJ one every 22. Stenchy had an RBI every 6.3 AB, AJ one every 6.1. Stenchy was lauded as the next great thing, AJ was the big disappointment (hah! We hadn't seen anything yet from AJ in that department...).
   20. Bitter Calculus Instructor Posted: June 13, 2009 at 02:11 AM (#3217344)
He got too big too fast


Steroids.

Somebody had to say it.
   21. ValueArb Posted: June 13, 2009 at 07:42 AM (#3217815)
http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2009/06/excuse-me/

Good ol JC has a few more harsh words for Bradley. This is what JC wrote a year ago.


Bradley has the nerve, THE NERVE, to lecture fans on giving Francoeur criticism, which the media neglected to do for three years. In New York, they give grief to players who are far better than Francoeur. Jerry Manuel is making David Wright practice plate discipline, and he has a career OBP of .390. Wright’s slumps are equal to Frenchy’s peaks, but Terry Pendleton just keeps telling Frenchy to “stay aggressive.”

Why didn’t Mark Bradley ask about sending Francoeur to the minors in 2006, when it was clear that he had more to learn? Why didn’t Mark Bradley question Frenchy’s presence in the line-up every day for over two years? I don’t know whether demoting or resting him would have helped, but they were legitimate options that should have been put to the general manager and the manager.
   22. Good cripple hitter Posted: June 13, 2009 at 07:51 AM (#3217816)
From JC's response linked above:

David Price was a hero in Tampa Bay, a franchise without any history of stars. Yet, the Rays front office just said, “Hey folks, he’s young. We know he’s done some good stuff up here, but he needs more work.” Some fans were pissed, but the storm didn’t last long.

I don't really follow any Tampa Bay news, so what's the story here? Eyeballing Price's 2009 stats, I don't really see how he's a good example of a team being patient with a star prospect.
   23. Jim Wisinski Posted: June 13, 2009 at 01:08 PM (#3217838)
I'd take Delmon Young for Francoeur. Who's Delmon Young?


Jeff Francoeur with a bad attitude!

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