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1. Posada Posse Posted: November 09, 2010 at 09:49 PM (#3686848)Ugh. Now I guess Jeter can "justify" getting $20 million/year on his contract.
Posada too.
The mind boggles.
Largely, yes. The only complete laugher on there is Jeter. The other who probably didn't deserve it at least are plausible candidates.
I don't know if Cano is a terrible choice, though. Not a lot of the good 2B in the AL got a lot of playing time this year. Cano was at least out there everyday doing a pretty solid job.
I love the link opposite Jeter's name on B-Ref at the moment, Sean.
It is a nice change from how these things usually go.
I believe Andrus was the finest SS I have seen all year, he'll get his next year.
They weren't, other than a "Hey, isn't that Cano" sort of way.
He might not be the best choice, but he's not a terrible choice or anything. Like Ryan said, you can make a case for others at several positions, but only Jeter is egregious.
Worse pick for gold glove - Rafael Palmeiro in 1999 or Derek Jeter in 2010?
I should take it down, but like I said this stuff chaps my hide.
ROBBED.
Why should he have to wait? If he was the best fielding SS this year he should have gotten the award this year.
The Jeter award is a complete ####### joke. Just do away with the damn things at this point; clearly they're meaningless.
I was going to check on Fangraphs, then I remembered Palmeiro only played, like, a month's worth of games at 1B that year. At least Jeter was actually out there attempting to field.
That's a failing of the list. If they want to change things so that the awards are for left, right and center, that's fine. But as long as the award is supposed to go to the three best outfielders, corner men basically have no business being in the running unless they're true center fielders being pushed to right by an entrenched Willie Mays or something.
Go to the leaders section
I'm kinda shocked he wasn't picked. I thought after his first trip around the league, the coaches would be ready for him this year.
They weren't, other than in some sort of "Hey, isn't that Cano" sort of way.
I have a really hard time believing UZR is right about Cano. Fangraphs' DRS has him at +7 so its not like no system likes him. This is the first time in 5 years TZ hasn't thought he was a well above average 2nd baseman. I'm gonna go ahead and say Cano is a totally defensible choice and quite possibly the best choice given that the other AL candidates have all rated as negative defenders at times over the past few years.
Thanks. If they gave away Nobel prizes in baseball data presentation, they would name the award after you. How's that for a compliment?
I was refuting the statement they were judged by their peers (unless you consider one's bosses as peers), not their worthiness for the particular honor.
I can outcompliment you: Forman for HOF!
Oh I see. Whoops! Well, I'm sure my statement will preempt someone complaining that a Yankee with a slightly negative UZR won the gold glove (if the thread ever gets past the Jeter).
You mean like Ichiro and Crawford? Also, Brett Gardner was robbed.
Ozzie - 13 GG/202 fielding runs during those years, per BB-REF
Vizquel - 11/47
Aparicio - 9/108
Belanger - 8/181
Concepcion - 5/49
Jeter - 5/-9
I actually do think that public opinion on Jeter's defense has shifted well past the point that writers would be willing to vote for someone else. I think that Jeter has essentially lucked out, insofar as there simply isn't an obvious heir apparent, or at least one that Joe Bench Coach would be itching to vote for.
There were only nine AL shortstops with enough PA to qualify for the batting title.
Alexei Ramirez: UZR +10.8, +/- +16
Cliff Pennington: UZR +8.8, +/- +9
Cesar Izturis: UZR +5.1, +/- +3
Elvis Andrus: UZR +0.1, +/- +1
Erick Aybar: UZR -2.0, +/- 0
Marco Scutaro: UZR -2.9, +/- -7
Derek Jeter: UZR -4.7, +/- -13
Yuniesky Betancourt: UZR -9.5, +/- -21
Jason Bartlett: UZR -10.4, +/- +2
Alexei and Pennington were surely better fielders than Jeter this past year, but I certainly never heard anyone raving about their defensive brilliance. I'm not surprised the voters didn't flock to them. And honestly, I don't think we'll end up looking back at baseball history and considering it a travesty that Alexei Ramirez or Cliff Pennington never won a Gold Glove. I guess you could have given it to Izturis, who does have a good rep, but he had a 545 OPS on a 66-win team, and that doesn't happen.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have voted for Jeter... but you can totally see how it happened. Someone needs to step up and claim the crown. (presumably Elvis)
Heartily agreed.
As were Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher.
Brian Falkenborg?
How does one go about "stepping up," besides playing great defense? "Play shortstop for the Yankees" is already taken.
I was surprised that this was Carl Crowford's first GG, bu tthis is exactly why. Normally being the best fielding left fielder won't win you the award.
We live in a unfair and unjust world. The mere fact that we can get up in the morning and keep moving forward is a miracle. I have faith major league baseball players ability to recognize Elvus soon enough.
They weren't, other than in some sort of "Hey, isn't that Cano" sort of way
No, Cano plays a very impressive second base, he played nearly every game there, he ranges behind second often, and has the arm to convert some balls once he gets to them. In addition, he makes the turn at second like no one else, with a lightning fast catch and release from the throw coming from short or second.
It is very easy to see why other players would recognize Cano this season.
Haha, you so funny!!!! No, Gardner should have been playing CF instead of Granderson and was better in LF than Crawford.
Jeter stinks.
No one gets to the ball better ... once it has stopped rolling.
He doesn't play enough.
among players with >120 games
C: Joe Mauer (3rd award) - Fielding% #1
1B: Mark Teixeira (4th) - #1
2B: Robinson Cano (1st) - #1
3B: Evan Longoria (2nd) - #5
SS: Derek Jeter (5th) - #1
OF: Carl Crawford (1st) - #7 (#3 as LF)
OF: Franklin Gutierrez (1st) #1 (#1 as CF
OF: Ichiro Suzuki (10th) - #12 (#3 as RF)
Go to the leaders section
Man, I need to up my Benny Agbayani clicks.
Is this really true? Beckham and Hill had nearly as many turns if a lot fewer plays in the field.
I thought hitting ability was the main basis.
I've seen "players" and "writers" mentioned, and neither have a say. It's "managers and coaches."
Is this really true? Beckham and Hill had nearly as many turns if a lot fewer plays in the field.
DPT per inning:
Beckham .055
Hill .053
Cano .046
There are plenty of writers who tell us how they voted for HOF, Mvp, Cy Young but do any managers or coaches reveal their votes?
You must have missed a memo. Ichiro is considered a CF.
Funny, I sponsored Oswalt's page from the first time Sean allowed them until this past year, just before he shot up to become the #2 most popular page.
No, Cano makes the play like no one else, he stands straight up and flings the ball sidearmed with little to no weight distribution. It is flashy, and you can understand the kind of impression it makes. The style is unlike anyone else.
also, and I don't know, and I don't particularly care, but if Jeter really is the worst SS in the league, wouldn't that hurt Cano's DP numbers?
Hall of Fame CF Ray. Hall of Fame CF.
In fairness to the GG voters I would bet that less than 30 minutes was spent among the 14 AL Managers filling out their ballot. I assume they spend roughly the same amount of time on that process as they do autographing baseballs.
I believe Pennington led AL SS in WAR this year. Or maybe Alex Gonzalez beat him, I forget how he split his between AL and NL.
Alexei Ramirez got him by .1 according to FanGraphs. Pennington beat Ramirez in B-Ref's WAR by .1.
maybe if the voting had a 1st-2nd-3rd enough of hte 70% smart people would leave him off entirely.
or maybe I'm in fastasy la-la land
It's not that hard to get it past Jeter.
Indeed, with this win, Ichiro has now tied the AL record for outfield Gold Glove, to go with his records for most hits in a season and most consecutive seasons with 200 hits. When considered in light of his MVP and ROY honors leading the 2001 Mariners to the MLB record for most wins in a season, his 10 AS appearances, his 10 years of hitting .300 or better and his nearly 400 SB, you are looking at a bona fide, Grade A, No-Doubt-About-It Hall of Famer, yessiree.
Me neither. Was he really that good in the field this year? I see the +11 fielding runs according to WAR, but he was -7 and -7 the two previous years (surprisingly poor numbers given his playing time). If I had to guess just based on the numbers I'd guess he was an average SS with a lot of small sample size noise in his numbers. But he's young enough that he could have improved, and I've never seen him play, so I'll defer to those who have. What do those who have seen him play regularly think of his defense?
The A's are pretty happy with him to hit .260 and steal some bases and field the position.
He's not Ozzie or Belanger level good, and he's not even as good as Omar Vizquel in his twilight. But he is an excellent Major League defender.
nobody is saying that, they are saying that as the system is currently set up, three outfielders get the gold glove, then you would/should expect that centerfielders would win the vast majority of gold gloves because they are a more premium defensive position. If the gold gloves categories were two middle infielders get the award, then you would expect two shortstops to get the award.
QFT.
Dude's got a cannon, too.
The thing is, managers and coaches don't see players on other teams play very often, and they're not allowed to vote for their own players. So if they think about it at all, they might remember one play that happened against their team. Most likely, they're not thinking about it at all.
Of the people who are knowledgeable about these things, managers and coaches might be the people least suited to vote for an award that focuses on defense.
Personally, I'd be interested in what advance scouts, people who are paid to observe players on other teams and give their opinions, think on the subject.
Ramirez thumped him in Dewan's system --- +16 to +9 Runs Saved.
They had an heir apparent in Michael Young, who won the GG in 2008. Then the Rangers moved him off of SS in favor of the defensively superior Andrus. And the coaches went back to Jeter.
That they're obviously not voting based solely on fielding percentage, since Jeter has 5 GGs and just 2 FP titles.
I think the quote you were responding to was about WAR, not just fielding.
But what's up with Dewan's numbers on Fangraphs? He has MLB fielders as +270 runs above average, as a whole.
Perhaps it's a scoring environment thing? There were 1111 fewer runs scored in MLB in 2010 than there were in 2009.
That is normal and expected figure in the Lake Wobegon League.
We don't know this to be true. There are no voting totals released with Gold Glove voting. We don't know how many people voted, how many players are named on a ballot, how those votes are weighted. It's possible (although admittedly unlikely) that only 10 people turned in ballots each listing one player per position, Jeter was named on 2 of them, and the other 8 ballots each contained a single vote for 8 other players. Hell, for all we know Jeter was also named on exactly one ballot (perhaps the Yankees ballot - they seemed to do well in voting) and the tiebreaker for the Gold Glove is to award it to the most recent past winner. It's very difficult to read anything at all into this vote, because we simply don't know how the vote actually went.
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