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Sunday, September 25, 2011

Alfonso Soriano no fan of seventh spot

“I’m not a guy that fights with people,” Soriano told ESPNChicago.com. “The way they treat me this year, I don’t like it. The way they have me hit in the No. 7, 5 and 6 spots, I have trouble concentrating on the job hitting in those different spots. But (Mike) Quade is the manager and does his best to try to make the team better.

...

Asked why he didn’t go to Quade earlier in the season to voice his displeasure about his spot in the lineup, Soriano said: “I don’t think I should go to his office because I’m not like that. That’s not me. He puts me in the seventh spot, and he thinks we can win like that then I’m OK with that.”

The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 25, 2011 at 06:02 AM | 39 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: amateur, cubs

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Dan Hirsch Posted: September 25, 2011 at 11:54 AM (#3935540)
Maybe if he raised his .288 OBP, Quade would put him towards the top of the lineup.
   2. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: September 25, 2011 at 11:58 AM (#3935542)
Asked why he didn’t go to Quade earlier in the season to voice his displeasure about his spot in the lineup, Soriano said: “I don’t think I should go to his office because I’m not like that.


Why complain to the manager when I have the media so handy.
   3. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: September 25, 2011 at 12:53 PM (#3935555)
He could bat third in the Mexican league. Which is where he would be if not for having signed one of the worst contracts in the history of baseball.
   4. Tricky Dick Posted: September 25, 2011 at 12:56 PM (#3935556)
I have trouble concentrating on the job hitting in those different spots.


What? I don't understand why. And, even if it were true and I was in Soriano's place, I wouldn't want to admit it.
   5. Dale Sams Posted: September 25, 2011 at 02:25 PM (#3935578)
I have trouble concentrating on the job hitting in those different spots.


Carl Crawford on moving from sixth to second in the line-up:

"I can cause a little more havoc, play the way I've always played," he said. "You know steal bases, get on base for the guys behind me. Don't have to try to hit a home run."


Baseball players have the most easily bruised vaginas this side of a soccer game.
   6. kcgard2 Posted: September 25, 2011 at 03:14 PM (#3935596)
I have trouble concentrating on the job hitting in those different spots.

I feel like this borders on being an insult to me as a baseball fan. The Cubs have treated you badly by not letting you hit where you want to in the order, in a season where you have sucked hardcore at the plate? And framing the whole situation like you are not a whiner and are a team player? The sense of entitlement is incredible. The cliché qualifiers and backhanded shots at the manager put the perfect finishing touches on this immature and hypocritical blabbering of excuses.
   7. nick swisher hygiene Posted: September 25, 2011 at 03:54 PM (#3935614)
the "role" is to hit the ball with the bat
or to throw the ball past guys who are trying to hit it with said bat.

the idea that hitting fifth is a "role"--that pitching the 8th inning is a "role"--these notions are stupid.

your role, Meat, is to help the club win ballgames.

I would love, love to see some low-payroll team hire a manager who felt he could get an edge by ignoring this big stupid contemporary myth.
   8. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: September 25, 2011 at 04:09 PM (#3935615)
Soriano's skills deteriorated so quickly into the new contract that it's been years since I had expectations of him higher than "please don't fall down trying to catch a flyball." He's been an albatross for so long that I don't even really get mad at him anymore, because I honestly don't expect him to provide any positives.

To his credit, though, he has quietly put up an OK season in the power number department. He's just not worth anything close to what he's paid.
   9. Greg K Posted: September 25, 2011 at 05:03 PM (#3935644)
Maybe the manager could just TELL Soriano he's batting 5th, but then distract him inside the clubhouse for the 1st inning so he misses the first two batters of the game and doesn't realize he's actually 7th.
   10. Brian C Posted: September 25, 2011 at 06:09 PM (#3935721)
Reading stuff like this makes me start believing in "team chemistry." As in, "how can a team win when they have pathetic losers like this around." Say what you will about Zambrano, at least he gets pissed off when he's playing poorly, instead of whining like this.
   11. Dale Sams Posted: September 25, 2011 at 06:42 PM (#3935760)
"how can a team win when they have pathetic losers like this around."


It exists, it's just hard to quantify and account for how much influence it has.
   12. Boxkutter Posted: September 25, 2011 at 07:36 PM (#3935815)
Mission accomplished. He is batting 5th in today's game.
   13. Dan Posted: September 25, 2011 at 08:07 PM (#3935861)
Mission accomplished. He is batting 5th in today's game.


That might be the biggest indictment of Quade as a manager yet. Way to let the inmates run the asylum there, Mike.
   14. BDC Posted: September 25, 2011 at 08:18 PM (#3935876)
This attitude, though foolish, is pretty common in any workplace. "I'm just not comfortable teaching freshmen, I really think I'd do better teaching a graduate course" is the version where I work.
   15. SteveM. Posted: September 25, 2011 at 08:50 PM (#3935900)
Go #### yourself Soriano. We Cubs fans have to look at your sorry ass for three more years. You want to complain? You are lucky you aren't being arrested for grand theft, you sorry sack of ####.
   16. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: September 25, 2011 at 10:00 PM (#3935950)
He's hit 5th plenty lately. It's not like he's been anchored at 7 since June and then today moves to 5 after saying this.
   17. McCoy Posted: September 25, 2011 at 10:04 PM (#3935953)
This attitude, though foolish, is pretty common in any union workplace.

FTFY
   18. Ebessan Posted: September 25, 2011 at 10:17 PM (#3935974)
Educators: The Scourge of America.
   19. BDC Posted: September 25, 2011 at 10:43 PM (#3936022)
I'll admit my workplace is stocked with educators, but there isn't a faculty union within 500 miles of here :)
   20. Something Other Posted: September 26, 2011 at 01:03 AM (#3936360)
"I can cause a little more havoc, play the way I've always played," he said. "You know steal bases, get on base for the guys behind me. Don't have to try to hit a home run."

Baseball players have the most easily bruised vaginas this side of a soccer game.
I'm sure I spend too much time thinking about vaginas already, but your post made me wonder, do female soccer players ever wear a female version of the cup? Or do they ever wear breast protectors? Hmm.

This attitude, though foolish, is pretty common in any workplace. "I'm just not comfortable teaching freshmen, I really think I'd do better teaching a graduate course" is the version where I work.
Whoa. As a teacher I thrived on teaching the toughest, smartest, most vocal students anyone could wish for, and I found those kinds of students at the grad level, mostly. The difference between freshman comp and a seminar on Derrida where three of the six students are writing publishable papers is a helluva lot greater than the difference between hitting sixth and seventh.
   21. puck Posted: September 26, 2011 at 01:26 AM (#3936415)
do female soccer players ever wear a female version of the cup?


Do softball players? I don't think many male soccer players wear a baseball-style cup.
   22. SoSH U at work Posted: September 26, 2011 at 01:32 AM (#3936434)
Do softball players? I don't think many male soccer players wear a baseball-style cup.


The rule in my son's little league was that all catchers had to wear a cup. We honestly had no idea what to do about that particular edict when the tiny little girl on our team expressed interest in donning the tools of ignorance.
   23. The District Attorney Posted: September 26, 2011 at 01:35 AM (#3936448)
I'm sure I spend too much time thinking about vaginas already
Have you been watching a lot of TV? Because "For network television this is the season of the vagina."

The rule in my son's little league was that all catchers had to wear a cup. We honestly had no idea what to do about that particular edict when the tiny little girl on our team expressed interest in donning the tools of ignorance.
Well, in TNA Wrestling, womens' matches are often ended by low blows, which incapacitate the recipient. So I guess she should wear one.
   24. SteveM. Posted: September 26, 2011 at 01:54 AM (#3936524)
This attitude, though foolish, is pretty common in any workplace. "I'm just not comfortable teaching freshmen, I really think I'd do better teaching a graduate course" is the version where I work.

If I had my choice, I would MUCH rather teach grad students then teach survey classes. Teach freshmen can be soul killing because the vast majority don't give a damn about the subject or material. I teach two surveys a semester and am burned out. I long to teach at a R1 institute.
   25. Ron J Posted: September 26, 2011 at 02:09 AM (#3936558)
#17 It happened in baseball long before there was a union.

Kiki Cuyler ended up on the Cubs because he objected so loudly to being asked to bat second by the Pirates. He didn't see himself as a bat control and bunt guy. (which is how a #2 hitter was looked at back then)

Not that he'd have ever known it, but he actually was very successful as a #2 hitter. Including .341/.426/.519 (and only 2 sac bunts) in the 157 PAs he had batting 2nd in 1927.
   26. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: September 26, 2011 at 02:09 AM (#3936560)
"I can cause a little more havoc, play the way I've always played," he said. "You know steal bases, get on base for the guys behind me. Don't have to try to hit a home run."


Baseball players have the most easily bruised vaginas this side of a soccer game.


No, I'm pretty sure it's Primer posters. You know, players likely do play differently (and thus prepare differently) when hitting 2nd in a lineup and 6th. And while people here may say that's stupid, if his manager and coaching staff expect a different style from a #2 hitter than a #6 hitter, it sure makes sense for the player to act on that. If a team expects more power out of a #6 hitter or more base-stealing from a #2, then that *should* impact how the player spends practice time, scouting opponents, etc.

I didn't get the idea that Soriano was saying that, though. He was just whining. Crawford's quote actually does make sense, assuming the team feels the same way about lineup roles.
   27. SoSH U at work Posted: September 26, 2011 at 02:17 AM (#3936580)
I didn't get the idea that Soriano was saying that, though. He was just whining. Crawford's quote actually does make sense, assuming the team feels the same way about lineup roles.


Not only that, but Crawford was saying it in a response to being moved to the No. 2 hole, and it very easily could have been his attempt to convince himself that such a move will lead to better results than what he's enjoyed up 'til now.
   28. Something Other Posted: September 26, 2011 at 09:19 AM (#3937083)

I'm sure I spend too much time thinking about vaginas already

Have you been watching a lot of TV? Because "For network television this is the season of the vagina."
No, but it never did take much, anyway. Seriously, leave the damn thing alone. It doesn't need to be deromanticized with a lot of discussion or accoutrements. A little trimming now and then and that's that, dammit.
   29. bobm Posted: September 26, 2011 at 11:45 AM (#3937092)
[25] Kiki Cuyler ... didn't see himself as a bat control and bunt guy. (which is how a #2 hitter was looked at back then)... batting 2nd in 1927.

Don't at least some managers still look at the #2 hitter this way?
   30. BDC Posted: September 26, 2011 at 12:15 PM (#3937103)
Steve and something other, I would imagine you are both terrific teachers with outstanding publications. But imagine the academic equivalent of Alfonso Soriano: long-tenured on the basis of long-ago work, highly-paid, uninspired and unproductive, and blocking good young teacher/scholars like the two of you. Maybe the Sorianos of the academic world should go back to teaching freshmen for a while – it might inspire them to raise their batting average :)
   31. Ron J Posted: September 26, 2011 at 12:27 PM (#3937107)
#29 It's weakened over time, but you'll still hear references to bat control in discussing who should bat second. More from the various talking heads than the managers it seems to me. Can't recall the last manager I've heard talking about this.

Back in the 20s though I'd say the #2 hitter had the most clearly defined role. You had to be a good hit and run guy to bat second -- even if the hit and run itself had become less than automatic as the offensive levels rose.
   32. Jose Canusee Posted: September 26, 2011 at 04:33 PM (#3937391)
Just looking at the words I don't see anything to get riled up about. Guy is overpaid and declining but likely better than whoever else they have to replace him. Reporter tries to stir up something and asks questions. Player does not lie. Manager throws him a bone. No big deal.
   33. McCoy Posted: September 26, 2011 at 04:41 PM (#3937400)
Guy is overpaid and declining but likely better than whoever else they have to replace him.

Bryan LaHair.
   34. JJ1986 Posted: September 26, 2011 at 04:41 PM (#3937401)
Alex Cora hit 2nd for the Mets a bunch of times in 2009 and 2010.
   35. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 26, 2011 at 05:03 PM (#3937429)
We honestly had no idea what to do about that particular edict when the tiny little girl on our team expressed interest in donning the tools of ignorance.


They make a female analogue for precisely this situation. I'm not going to google it at work, but I remember reading about it in a past thread.
   36. Nasty Nate Posted: September 26, 2011 at 05:04 PM (#3937431)
I always noticed that managers often bat the second basemen in the #2 spot, regardless of whether the actual hitter has the stereotypical bat-control skills (or whatever you would want for a #2 guy)... I assume these are the same people who vote on gold gloves based on hitting performance.
   37. Brian C Posted: September 26, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#3937459)
#29 It's weakened over time, but you'll still hear references to bat control in discussing who should bat second. More from the various talking heads than the managers it seems to me. Can't recall the last manager I've heard talking about this.

Well, Darwin Barney has over 400 PA in the second spot this year, and he's as much of a "bat control" guy as the Cubs have. Since he's otherwise a pretty terrible hitter, I can only assume that Quade subscribes to this, whether he's said so explicitly or not.
   38. SteveM. Posted: September 26, 2011 at 05:28 PM (#3937470)
Steve and something other, I would imagine you are both terrific teachers with outstanding publications. But imagine the academic equivalent of Alfonso Soriano: long-tenured on the basis of long-ago work, highly-paid, uninspired and unproductive, and blocking good young teacher/scholars like the two of you. Maybe the Sorianos of the academic world should go back to teaching freshmen for a while – it might inspire them to raise their batting average :)


That may be true. But trust me-trying to explain to freshmen that Watergate is not ancient history and relevant can be wearisome.
   39. The Good Face Posted: September 26, 2011 at 05:57 PM (#3937503)
That may be true. But trust me-trying to explain to freshmen that Watergate is not ancient history and relevant can be wearisome.


It's bound to be an uphill slog considering the golden age of American waterparks was over by the early 90s. Ancient history indeed.

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