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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Saturday, March 09, 2013Alfredo Aceves in Middle of Massive Brawl During Canada-Mexico World Baseball Classic Game (Video)El Santo vs. the Infernal Canadian Men!
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1. Joe Bivens Recognizes the Kenyan Precedent Posted: March 09, 2013 at 06:46 PM (#4385158)Not sure I saw all the skirmishes, but it looked like Aceves took more punishment than he dished out. Which raises the question as to whether Aceves Red Sox teammates were cheering him on or celebrating his beating?
Also, what are the rules for this? How would they decide the suspensions? Not that it matters for mexico.
There you go folks, Alfredo Aceves is possessed.
"NAFTA transformed our economy more!"
"No it didn't!"
"Yes it did!"
"Hoser!"
"Stinking, fat, Canuck bastard!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
This part of the article is curious. I wonder what was said, and how close the stands were to boiling over.
I think it was more the back problems that limited him to 12 innings in 2010, compounded by a broken collarbone in a later bike accident. Perhaps he was a clubhouse problem, since it would not have cost that much to retain him, but I don't recall anything like that surfacing, so my guess is it was mostly the injuries.
I was watching live, and it appeared that calm was well on the way to be restored when Aceves charged out of the dugout into the fray, throwing punches.
Anyone else see it?
I don't think the video in #9 is the whole thing. It starts off with an overhead cam where things look fairly calm, and then cuts to a closeup where all hell had broken loose. I think there is some time in between those two shots that might give a better since of where the first-throwing instigated.
1) The announcers speculate that the this fight might stem from a leadoff bunt single by the Canadians leadoff hitter of the top of the 9th inning. Team Canada was up 9-3 at the time. Apparently, Team Mexico took this as running up the score. The problem with that is: 1) run differential is a factor in breaking ties in the standings, and Canada had lost its first game by a large margin yesterday; 2)Is a six-run lead really that overwhelming?; 3) If this was a serious tourney, "running up the score" wouldn't be an issue. In the Olympics, Team USA Basketball would regularly keep playing even after being up by enormous amounts. In the NCAA basketball tourney, teams up 20 with 5 minutes to go are OK with continuing to push forward - because it's a tournament! If this were a real tournament, the same would apply in this game.
2) Who is getting suspended? For how long? Somebody might miss the rest of the WBC...but who cares? If you are an MLB team with a player on the roster, wouldn't you rather they miss the rest of the WBC than to miss, say, a couple of regular-season games?
2) why would people miss regular season games?
It may be that the presence of A-rod kinda just suck all the douchery out of everyone else ? ;)
This sounds more like a criticism of baseball generally. Is there as much whining about "unwritten rule" infractions in other sports? ie. don't but for a hit when you're ahead, don't steal...I believe the Cubs actually started a tussle with the Nationals last year because Jayson Werth SWUNG AT A 3-0 PITCH when the Nats were up big. Whining about losing badly seems to be a part of baseball no matter what the event.
Or is this a criticism of the pool/round robin format rather than single elimination? I'm confused about how the running up the score issue applies specifically to the WBC.
One complaint I have about the WBC, which is more a complaint about the format, is that the American team last night got to play a pivotal game against a team that really didn't care about it. I don't think that's all that fair, but then again is not unique to the WBC. Ideally, all games should mean the same to both sides. Italy wasn't going to pull out all the stops against the US which doesn't seem fair when the other three teams have to face an opponent giving 100% in all three games.
Secondly, this is an international tournament, and as mentioned run differential is a tie breaker. This ain't a September sleeper game between two teams that are 30 games out of first. Be mad at yourself for being so lazy or unattentive that you let someone lay down a bunt single on you, and answer with your bat or better pitching.
Thirdly, this is baseball. If the Marlins can score 8 runs in the 8th inning of a playoff game, you also have a chance to do the same off whatever A or AA relief pitcher Canada will be sending to the hill. It's not over until the 27th out.
Instead of looking at it this way, Mexico throws at their opponents and tries to fight them. That's not showing pride, or having a fire inside, or patriotism. This is actually the opposite, this is publicly giving up and saying "we don't think we can come back and win this game, so we are going to try to injure some of our opponents on our way out of the building." Unsportsmanlike is the most polite word to describe it; pathetic is a more acurate description but it is probably not strong enough.
1) The announcers speculate that the this fight might stem from a leadoff bunt single by the Canadians leadoff hitter of the top of the 9th inning. Team Canada was up 9-3 at the time. Apparently, Team Mexico took this as running up the score. The problem with that is: 1) run differential is a factor in breaking ties in the standings, and Canada had lost its first game by a large margin yesterday; 2)Is a six-run lead really that overwhelming?; 3) If this was a serious tourney, "running up the score" wouldn't be an issue. In the Olympics, Team USA Basketball would regularly keep playing even after being up by enormous amounts. In the NCAA basketball tourney, teams up 20 with 5 minutes to go are OK with continuing to push forward - because it's a tournament! If this were a real tournament, the same would apply in this game.
2) Who is getting suspended? For how long? Somebody might miss the rest of the WBC...but who cares? If you are an MLB team with a player on the roster, wouldn't you rather they miss the rest of the WBC than to miss, say, a couple of regular-season games?
3) I'm Canadian, and I don't care if Team Canada wins this game, or this tourney, or whatever. The American team obviously should be the best team, just on sheet numbers of players from which to choose. I mean, Verlander, Sabathia, etc., for a rotation...oh, yeah, none of them are actually pitching in the WBC. If they don't care, why should I?
1) The announcers speculate that the this fight might stem from a leadoff bunt single by the Canadians leadoff hitter of the top of the 9th inning. Team Canada was up 9-3 at the time. Apparently, Team Mexico took this as running up the score. The problem with that is: 1) run differential is a factor in breaking ties in the standings, and Canada had lost its first game by a large margin yesterday; 2)Is a six-run lead really that overwhelming?; 3) If this was a serious tourney, "running up the score" wouldn't be an issue. In the Olympics, Team USA Basketball would regularly keep playing even after being up by enormous amounts. In the NCAA basketball tourney, teams up 20 with 5 minutes to go are OK with continuing to push forward - because it's a tournament! If this were a real tournament, the same would apply in this game.
2) Who is getting suspended? For how long? Somebody might miss the rest of the WBC...but who cares? If you are an MLB team with a player on the roster, wouldn't you rather they miss the rest of the WBC than to miss, say, a couple of regular-season games?
3) I'm Canadian, and I don't care if Team Canada wins this game, or this tourney, or whatever. The American team obviously should be the best team, just on sheet numbers of players from which to choose. I mean, Verlander, Sabathia, etc., for a rotation...oh, yeah, none of them are actually pitching in the WBC. If they don't care, why should I?
I assume this is the wonky edit feature acting up again. This, for me, seems like a much more troubling aspect of the WBC as currently constituted. While some nations (both fans and players) take the tournament seriously, that attitude is nowhere near universal in the USA. It is a problem, and a significant one, but I've wanted to see a Canadian baseball team play at the highest possible international level since I was a kid, so I'll take what I can get.
Don't like the WBC? Don't watch it. Problem solved.
No sporting event is meaningful in itself. They only become meaningful because of the feelings of fans and players. For some fans and players, the WBC is a valuable competition. I care about it, so do lots of other folks on this site. The East Asian teams have been taking it very seriously, and the Latin American teams more and more so. That's enough to make most of the games a lot of fun.
I love it, I love international competitions, and I really wish more US players took it seriously. Whatever, just watching the Japanese, Koreans, and Cubans alone (never mind the sheer talent of the DR, Venezuela, Puerto Rico...and HONKBAL) is worth the existence of the WBC.
I'm biased, because I'm sitting here wearing the Samurai Japan Hoodie that I bought at Petco Park in 2006 when I watched Japan beat South Korea in that year's semis, but that game and the 2009 finals are two of the finest and funnest and most intense baseball games I've ever had the pleasure to witness in person.
I mean, do what you like (unless you like gang-banging), but it seems to me that passing up appreciation of the WBC feels like the slightest kind of spite ...
Mexico's only chance was to clock them when they threw down their imaginary gloves.
And, really, a mediocre US team can only help in that respect. You hope that ultimately, one of the countries where we're trying to promote baseball beats the US, drawing a lot of attention to baseball in that country. (And that humiliating loss will of course, in turn, incentivize the US and its potential players to care more about the tournament.)
It's broadcast on MLB Network, which is obviously not going to cancel it.
The only problem I see with it being unpopular in the US is that many of the games are held in the US and you do want to sell tickets. But hey, if you fill stadiums with visiting fans, that's fine too.
Who is Karim Garcia?
Canada needed USSR/Russia (then USA) in hockey to really feel a passion for international hockey.
USA needed...well...anyone competitive (and a couple of losses) to care about international basketball.
That took me a few seconds to get...
The only thing better than baseball is more baseball.
I don't know. I mean, I want the US to be more competitive, and honestly I think the game would be better if top guys from other countries (Felix Hernandez being one) played. However, the intensity between Japan and Korea last time around was pretty awesome. Though I don't know, I imagine they have a complicated history, so I think the WBC is source of pride for individuals in those countries. I can enjoy that stuff, kind of like watching a hockey game between Canada and Russia.
I sort of want to see the reaction if Cuba wins the WBC and, en route to doing so, thrashes the US soundly.
I'm just saying the WBC would be better with the US as a bully. That wouldn't diminish Japan-Korea or any of the rest, I think it would elevate it.
Yeah, player safety is paramount.
Which is why Team Canada should have kept Mark Prior in there longer, regardless of the consequences.
50 games? The poor guy wouldn't get to participate in a WBC game until he was 78!
That'd be one way of keeping Pedro Martinez out of the HOF.
Want to suspend guys: you run afoul of the teams that contributed players (particularly non-suspended pitchers who face inning limits)
Fine them: they won't pay, won't play in the tournament again
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