My (large) ballot: Tim Raines, Bert Blyleven, Mark McGwire, Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammell, Barry Larkin, Andre Dawson.

If Eric Karros doesn't make the Hall of Fame, they should just shut the place down.

So, GSfRB, you think Andre Dawson -- 119 OPS+ and 314 SB in 10,769 PA in CF and RF, is a Hall of Famer, but Roberto Alomar, 116 OPS+ and 474 SB (for only 5 more CS) at second base, is not?

My BIG HALL ballot:


Bert Blyleven
Roberto Alomar
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines
Mark McGwire
Alan Trammell
Andre Dawson
Edgar Martinez

My small hall ballot:
Bert Blyleven
Roberto Alomar
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines
Mark McGwire
Alan Trammell

Of course Dawson>Rice

Alomar
McGwire
Larkin
Blyleven
Raines
Trammell

Alomar
Larkin
McGriff
Martinez
Raines
Blyleven
McGwire
Trammell
Murphy
Dawson

Appier
Smith
Ventura

I would have put five names in the headline here, adding Ventura.

The Hall of Merit is voting right now, and will be done at the end of the weekend. For Hall of Merit purposes, we don't have a very intimidating backlog against which to compare these new candidates - Phil Rizzuto, Gavy Cravath, David Cone, Luis Tiant. The Hall of Fame has a rather large viable backlog.

In years past, we've hosted a HoF-rules vote on the HoM site. Since I'm not Joe or John, I can't say whether we'll do that this year, but we might (but we'll have to wait until the HoM election is over).

On that ballot last year, I voted for Blyleven, Henderson, McGwire, Raines, and Trammell, having only 5 on my ballot. (In other words, I didn't vote for Dawson.) This time around, I'd probably go for 8 on the ballot - the four that didn't make it last year, plus Alomar, Larkin, Martinez, and McGriff.

Last year's HoM-hosted HoF vote results:

All voters:

(Henderson 100%)
Raines 100%
Blyleven 97%
Trammell 94%
McGwire 84%
Dawson 37%
Tommy John 29%
Dale Murphy 28%
David Cone 26%
Lee Smith 24%
Dave Parker 17%
(Jim Rice 12%)
Don Mattingly 6%
with scattered other votes.

The HoM regular electorate was generally friendlier to everyone. Within that subset of the electorate:

(Henderson 100%)
Blyleven 100%
Raines 100%
Trammell 100%
McGwire 96%
Dawson 59%
Cone 56%
Murphy 41%
John 33%
Parker 30%
Smith 26%
(Rice 15%)
Mattingly 11%

Forgot Alomar.

Ballot:

Tim Raines
Bert Blyleven
Roberto Alomar
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Alan Trammell
Barry Larkin
Andre Dawson

Blyleven
Alomar
Larkin
Raines
Trammell

I think there are a clear top 10 here, all deserving

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

If Eric Karros doesn't make the Hall of Fame, they should just shut the place down.

If he would stop analyzing games immediately, I would support his candidacy just to shut him up.

Alomar
Blyleven
Larkin
Martinez
Raines
Trammell

I see Andy is leaving his ballot blank in protest.

Really? None of you are going to reward Shane Reynolds for being the poor soul who had to face Kerry Wood on May 6, 1998? What's a HoF without Reynolds and Ray Lankford?

Seriously though, my ballot:
Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

I see Andy is leaving his ballot blank in protest.

Nah, it was just for about two seconds I didn't see that I'd already listed my choices up top in the intro:

Gotta go with Robbie, Bert, Barry, Edgar, Tim, and Trammell. Good luck to me with any of that.

And nice to see that Barrett casts a wise ballot as well. Major props to Barrett.

At no time were any of those players feared

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell


That's nine. If I had to go to ten, I'd put Martinez on there, but I'm leaning against him for now.

A hearty BOO to every one of you who excludes Dale Murphy or Fred McGriff.

Mark McLemore got screwed. A distinctly better player than Segui or Reynolds, about even with Karros and Hentgen.

Raines
Blyleven
Trammell

.....

Alomar
Larkin
McGriff
McGwire
Murphy
Howard, F.
Santo, R.
Whitaker, L.

.....

.....

Dawson
Morris

that's twice that McLemore's bb-ref page has been linked here this week...

If anybody doesn't think Alomar should be in the HOF, I'd like to know why. 12-time all star, 10 gold gloves...

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Barry Larkin
Tim Raines

I think Alomar's new team every 3 years career will hurt his vote total. He's the first Hall of Fame-caliber player (isn't he?) who had a career that looked, in that way, like what we have traditionally thought of as a journeyman's career. He was a guy who bounced around. I bet that hurts him.

But is that balanced out by having more reporters than most who saw him regularly, as a hometown guy, when he was really good?

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Barry Larkin
Dale Murphy
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

Alomar
Blyleven
Larkin
Martinez
McGriff
McGwire
Raines
Trammell

Ballot seems light in pitching candidates.

I might vote for Appier just to see if I could help keep him on the ballot an extra year.

Alomar, Blyleven, Dawson, Larkin, McGwire, Raines.

King - I think you can make a pretty strong case that this is what has kept Blyleven out. His years with each team went 6.5, 1.5, 3, 4.5, 3.5, 3.

Ballot seems light in pitching candidates.

Of course, you did just vote for Blyleven.

They're coming. Kevin Brown in 2011. Clemens and Schilling in 2013. Maddux and Glavine in 2014.

Bert
Larkin
Martinez
Trammell
Raines
Alomar
Mcgriff
Dawson
McGwire
Ventura

"Bouncing around" didn't hurt Gaylord Perry. There's other counterexamples I'm sure.

Alomar
Appier
Blyleven
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Raines
Trammell

Roberto Alomar
Mark McGwire,
Bert Blyleven.
Barry Larkin
Fred McGriff
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

Could be persuaded on Edgar and Dawson, and I suppose Murphy, but none of them make my first cut.


Or there's the all-Oriole ballot:

Alomar
Raines
Hentgen
Segui
Zeile
Baines
Smith

I'd vote for
Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell

I'm not sure what to make of Edgar Martinez - I could still be convinced. Murphy and Dawson, maybe I'd feel differently if I'd seen them play more. All of these guys, along with McGriff, should be in if Jim Rice is the in/out line.

Alomar
Larkin
McGwire
Raines
McGriff
Trammell
Blyleven
Dawson

Murphy and Edgar are just outside for me.

"Bouncing around" didn't hurt Gaylord Perry. There's other counterexamples I'm sure.

Hoyt Wilhelm
Goose Gossage
Dave Winfield

I'm not sure what to make of Edgar Martinez - I could still be convinced. Murphy and Dawson, maybe I'd feel differently if I'd seen them play more. All of these guys, along with McGriff, should be in if Jim Rice is the in/out line.

This is the HOF in/out line Jim Rice, Edgar Martinez and Fred McGriff should be on.

Bert Blyleven
Robbie Alomar
Barry Larkin

Tim Raines
Alan Trammel
Fred McGriff


Dale Murphy

I predict a surprising lack of support for Alomar, a la Sandberg his first couple years on the ballot. In fact, I think Larkin might get more votes.

Alomar
McGwire
Blyleven
Larkin
Raines
Trammell
Martinez
and what the hell,
Dawson
McGriff
Murphy

If I got to pick from the reject pile, there are others I'd choose first, but with this ballot those last three guys get in. The Hall's too small.

"Bouncing around" didn't hurt Gaylord Perry. There's other counterexamples I'm sure.

Hoyt Wilhelm
Goose Gossage
Dave Winfield

Perry spent 10 years with the Giants and was in his 30s before he started bouncing, and he had the 300-win magic number.

Wilhelm's a special case in 1,000 ways.

Gossage 5 years with the White Sox and 6 with the Yanks, and he didn't exactly slide in.

Winfield was in his 18th year, counting the year he missed with injury, when he went to his third team. That's not a journeyman's career.

In fact, I think Larkin might get more votes.

Well, he should; Larkin was pretty clearly a better player than Alomar (I also think he'll get more votes than Alomar).

I agree with those above who named 10 players on their ballots. Roughly, in the order in which I'd take them I'd go:

Larkin
Raines
Blyleven
Alomar
Trammell
McGwire
Dawson
Martinez
Murphy
McGriff

My ballot, without looking anyone up again:

Yes

Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Barry Larkin
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines

Border - No

Andre Dawson
Edgar Martinez


No
Kevin Appier
Dale Murphy
Robin Ventura
Harold Baines
Ellis Burks
Andres Galarraga
Pat Hentgen
Mike Jackson
Eric Karros
Ray Lankford
Don Mattingly
Jack Morris
Dave Parker
Shane Reynolds
David Segui
Lee Smith
Todd Zeile

Alomar
Raines
McGwire
Blyleven
Larkin
Dawson

No particular order:

Alomar
Blyleven
Larkin
Edgar
Trammell
Raines
McGriff
Lee Smith
McGwire

In years past, we've hosted a HoF-rules vote on the HoM site. Since I'm not Joe or John, I can't say whether we'll do that this year, but we might (but we'll have to wait until the HoM election is over).

Hopefully this gets done again this year. It's a lot of fun for us non-HOM voters.

I personally am a small hall guy. My hall would have about the number of guys the BBWAA has selected over the years, among 20C MLBs anyway. (Obviously I would have some 19C guys and NgLers.)

But Cooperstown is not a small hall. Not even close.

So my small hall ballot would be McGwire, Blyleven, Larkin and Raines.

But my real hall ballot would also include Trammell, Morris, Edgar, Alomar, Dawson and Mattingly, because there's a limit of 10.

When I had the chance I would also vote for Murphy and maybe Parker and maybe Ventura. Obviously there are lots of guys who should go in before some of these guys, (but no, Keith, not Concepcion) but they're not on the ballot. And I'm still not even coming close to the Hall's established lower limit.

Some voters apparently either don't know who is in the HoF or don't care that they're imposing a totally different standard. It's like saying Ronald Reagan was a crappy president because he didn't wear a powdered wig or a beard.

Holy backlog Batman! http://community.baseballhall.org/Page.aspx?pid=414

I'm sure others have mentioned this in the past (heck I may have), but wow is there ever going to be a logjam if a couple guys don't go in this year or next. Not saying all the players will or should get in, but the ones bolded will get enough support to affect the potential of reaching 75% of some and chance of reaching 5% for others.

Future Candidates

Provided that they remain retired, the following is a partial list of former Major League ballplayers who will become eligible for consideration by the BBWAA for election into the Hall of Fame in upcoming years. Players who are eligible have played 10 seasons of Major League Baseball and have been retired from for five full seasons. For example, those players eligible for consideration in 2010 will have played their final game in 2004. Those players eligible for consideration in 2011 will have last played in 2005, etc.

2010: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Dave Burba, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

2011: Jeff Bagwell, Rafael Palmeiro, John Olerud, Kevin Brown, Larry Walker, Juan Gonzalez, Tino Martinez, B.J. Surhoff, Marquis Grissom, John Franco, Bret Boone, Al Leiter, Benito Santiago, Carlos Baerga, Raul Mondesi, Bobby Higginson, Wilson Alvarez, Rey Sanchez, Charles Johnson, Jose Offerman, Ugueth Urbina, Ismael Valdez, Dan Wilson, Paul Quantrill, Cal Eldred, Kirk Rueter, Steve Reed

2012: Edgardo Alfonzo, Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Kenny Lofton, David Wells, Julio Franco, Shawn Green, Steve Finley, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Cirillo, Jose Valentin, Reggie Sanders, Jeff Conine, Jose Mesa, Royce Clayton, Bob Wickman, Ryan Klesko, Aaron Sele, Woody Williams, Rondell White, Mike Lieberthal, Tony Batista, Mike Stanton, Sandy Alomar Jr., Damian Miller, Todd Walker

2014: Moises Alou, Armando Benitez, Sean Casey, Jose Cruz Jr., Ray Durham, Damion Easley, Jim Edmonds, Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez, Mark Grudzielanek, Scott Hatteberg, Jacque Jones, Todd Jones, Jeff Kent, Jon Lieber, Esteban Loaiza, Paul Lo Duca, Greg Maddux, Matt Morris, Mike Mussina, Trot Nixon, Hideo Nomo, Jay Payton, Kenny Rogers, Richie Sexson, J.T. Snow, Shannon Stewart, Frank Thomas, Mike Timlin, Steve Trachsel, Jose Vidro

It's like saying Ronald Reagan was a crappy president because he didn't wear a powdered wig or a beard.

Reagan would have been a better president if he wore a powdered wig. I like some obvious insanity in my political figures, and wearing a powdered wig in the 80s would have satisfied that need.

LargeBill, while I agree with you that a backlog will be an issue (especially if there's a big steroid-boycott vote), I think you're overstating it a bit. Of the guys you've got bolded, there's a decent number who will not get the 5% needed to stay on the ballot. I'd be very surprised if any of the following made it to year two: Burks, Galarraga, Tino, Boone, Juan Gonzalez (although he does have 2 MVPs, so who knows), Radke, Lofton (which is a dissapointment, since he should be seriously considered), Julio Franco, Alou, Casey, Gagne, and Luis Gonzalez.

Blyleven, Larkin, Raines, Trammell, McGwire, Alomar, Appier, Martinez.

I do believe Appier contributed more value to his teams than Edgar Martinez.

Nuthin' wrong with a backlog. The obvious winners are:

C-Piazza
1B-Bags and Hurt
2B-Biggio
SS-Larkin
3B-You'd have to toss Alomar or Kent over there
LF-Bonds
CF-Edmonds
RF-L. Walker
DH-I'd put Frank Thomas here
SP-Clemens, Maddux (ya think?), Glavine, Mussina, Schilling
RP-Franco

If all on one ballot:

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Maddux
4. F. Thomas
5. Biggio
6. Bagwell
7. Larkin
8. Piazza
9. Alomar
10. Glavine

Palmeiro, Kent, Mussina and Schilling are next but borderline.

Ryan,

Look back some of the guys that stayed on the ballot for a few years with 5 to 10%. Those are exactly the kind of players you mentioned a couple really good seasons maybe one great season, popular with the media.
Galarraga batted .370 one season 150 and 140 RBI in other seasons and close to 400 HR.
Burks has 1996 (.341, 40 HR, 142 runs, 128 RBI
Tino multiple rings in 9 trips to playoffs great 1997 season
Boone couple great offensive seasons for a 2B
Juan 2 MVP's almost automatically ensures a few years on ballot
Radke poor man's Jack Morris - okay no case to make
Lofton batted .325 or higher three times, led league in SB's 5 times (top 5 eight times)and always in playoffs (11 of 17 seasons) extra credit for switching to baseball late after college basketball career.
Franco played forever - okay no case to make, but hey he was last player older than me in majors.
Alou career .303 average and neat trick to keep people from shaking his hand
Casey everyone loved him he'll get some mercy votes, but probably less than 5%
Gagne holds/held a couple saves records
Gonzalez 57 homers in 2001 and helped keep the Yankees from winning a WS title (has to be worth something) :-)

My point in highlighting those players and others was not to argue they should be elected, but to emphasize how many players who would normally get some level of support will be on the ballot at once. When that happens usually all players see their total diluted. If that causes a few guys who should be first ballot selections to hang on the ballot then it will just get worse.

My point in highlighting those players and others was not to argue they should be elected, but to emphasize how many players who would normally get some level of support will be on the ballot at once.

Don't worry, I didn't think that you thought they would be elected. Rather, I just differ with you on the likelihood of them staying on the ballot long enough to clutter things up - the writers have generally (but not always, which is I guess what you're getting at) been fairly ruthless over the years on pruning out the sub-marginal candidates.

Nuthin' wrong with a backlog.

the writers have generally been fairly ruthless over the years on pruning out the sub-marginal candidates.

The math is going to be very merciless. With a maximum of 10 slots per voter, anybody who is even remotely marginal is going to vanish between 2013-2015. 2012, with only Bernie having anything close to a real argument, will be the Last Stop for 20 Miles (as in years, as in how long they'll have to wait for the VC to give them a chance) for anybody lingering from past years. Starting in 2013 it will get mighty crowded.

Winfield was in his 18th year, counting the year he missed with injury, when he went to his third team. That's not a journeyman's career.

I thought of Winfield first, too; you're right though he doesn't fit well because of the extended stays with the Padres and Yankees. Eddie Murray is a bit more like it. Despite the long run with Baltimore, he did play for 6 teams in his last 9 seasons. It's still different than Alomar, but more similar than Winfield.

I still can't see how playing for multiple teams can hurt him when he was stellar everywhere until his precipitous decline began with the Mets. A fantastic young player for the Padres and then a great player for playoff teams with Toronto, Baltimore and Cleveland. A clear HOF to me.

Rickey Henderson is a better example than Dave Winfield, with his two longest stays each being shorter than Winfield's two longest. Henderson had 11 stops during the last 11 years of his career, not counting the Surf Dawgs.

Rickey Henderson is a better example than Dave Winfield, with his two longest stays each being shorter than Winfield's two longest. Henderson had 11 stops during the last 11 years of his career, not counting the Surf Dawgs.

IMO Winfield was a no brainer, but I'll bet that what got him the final 5% - 10% of his vote was that seeing eye ground ball double that scored the go ahead run in the 1992 World Series, and got the "Mr. May" monkey off his back. IIRC that was the only extra base hit he got in that Series, but he picked the right moment to get it.