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Thursday, March 14, 2019

Alonso’s status an issue for union watching service time

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. (AP) — Pete Alonso is hitting .406 at spring training and leads the Mets with three home runs. Yet, if New York keeps him in the minor leagues for the first 15 days of the season, his eligibility for free agency would be pushed back a year until after the 2025 season.

“Seeing what players are going through where their service time is being manipulated, on the front end and/or in the middle, is a concern, has been a concern and will continue to be a concern,” union head Tony Clark said after meeting with the Mets.

Alonso nearly homered again Wednesday, but wind knocked down his fourth-inning drive off Houston’s Gerrit Cole. Alonso had 36 homers and 119 RBIs at Double-A and Triple-A last season.

Another to add to the list…

QLE Posted: March 14, 2019 at 06:08 AM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets being mets, pete alonso, service time

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   1. JJ1986 Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:16 AM (#5822689)
I'll bet he makes the big league club, but goes down for 20 days at some point when Todd Frazier is healthy.
   2. PreservedFish Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:58 AM (#5822708)
I'm not convinced that Alonso is definitely of the "eke out an extra year" echelon of prospects. And with the Mets this year, every game may count. I'd put him on the opening day roster.
   3. puck Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5822722)
He's got his first base blocking skills down pat but he might have to work on his overall fielding.
   4. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 11:02 AM (#5822742)
Seems like Dominic Smith gives them a pretty good fig leaf to justify sending Alonso down. Smith was in front of Alonso last year, as evinced by the fact that he got called up and Alonso didn't, and he's played just as well as Alonso has this spring. The Mets can just say that both guys were good, and they didn't see any reason to let Alonso jump the line.
   5. formerly dp Posted: March 14, 2019 at 01:32 PM (#5822814)
Seems like Dominic Smith gives them a pretty good fig leaf to justify sending Alonso down. Smith was in front of Alonso last year, as evinced by the fact that he got called up and Alonso didn't, and he's played just as well as Alonso has this spring. The Mets can just say that both guys were good, and they didn't see any reason to let Alonso jump the line.
All while knowing with a metaphysical degree of certainty that Smith will be hitting .185 mid-April, justifying an Alonso call-up coincidentally at the 15-day point.
   6. depletion Posted: March 14, 2019 at 09:25 PM (#5822920)
I'm not sure what the point of a "grievance" is ,as mentioned in the article. Rules are rules, and the service time rules were negotiated with the union. If the Mets were going nowhere this year, it would absolutely make sense to delay his service. But they just brought in talent that is supposed to make them competitive now, so you pretty much have to open the season with him.
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5822930)
I'm not sure what the point of a "grievance" is ,as mentioned in the article. Rules are rules, and the service time rules were negotiated with the union.

There's still an expectation of good faith on the part of both parties.
   8. Howie Menckel Posted: March 14, 2019 at 10:36 PM (#5822932)
the Mets' wunderkind GM claims Alonso will open the season with the big club if justified.

wait, they all say that - don't they? so we'll see.
   9. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 06:57 AM (#5822950)
All while knowing with a metaphysical degree of certainty that Smith will be hitting .185 mid-April, justifying an Alonso call-up coincidentally at the 15-day point.


Yes, exactly! He’s not a good player, but it’s hard for the MLBPA to portray him getting a chance over Alonso as totally unjustified, given that Smith is a former first-round pick, multi-year minor league All-Star, participant in the Futures Game, etc.
   10. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 08:42 AM (#5822962)

I'm not convinced that Alonso is definitely of the "eke out an extra year" echelon of prospects. And with the Mets this year, every game may count. I'd put him on the opening day roster.

100% this. The Mets are in a division with 4 teams that will likely win 80-90 games. And this is a franchise that missed the postseason by one game three times in the past 21 years (1998, 2007 and 2008).
   11. formerly dp Posted: March 15, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5822987)
I dunno...I'm not convinced the difference between Alonso and Smith/Davis for 15 games is going to cost them the division.

Smith is such a weird case on this team--there's basically no room for him, he doesn't have much by way of trade value, and probably can't do much to rebuild that value at Syracuse this year (though at least his numbers won't have The Vegas Taint). He's not worth blocking Alonso for long-term, and he doesn't have the bat to carry mediocre defense in LF that would justify playing him there and Nimmo in CF over Larages/Broxton/Gomez. Let's say he hits .400 for a couple of weeks. What then? Won't really move the needle much...
   12. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5822995)
The Mets can just say that both guys were good, and they didn't see any reason to let Alonso jump the line.


And the can justify it by saying Smith was a first round draft pick once upon a time and Alonso was...not...

EDIT: frosty one to Vlad.
   13. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5823022)
Man, with margins as razor thin as they seem likely to be in the NL East this year, I wouldn't go monkeying around with service time for a player the team might actually need in the lineup, even if it is for just a couple of weeks.
   14. Howie Menckel Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5823031)
gotta live without a safety net, guys!

the 2010 Giants left Buster Posey in AAA - where he had a .995 OPS - til May 29. he then got 3 hits in each of his first two games as a Giant.

the team, meanwhile, cruised to a whopping 2-game margin of victory in the NL West and won the World Series that year.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5823032)
Man, with margins as razor thin as they seem likely to be in the NL East this year, I wouldn't go monkeying around with service time for a player the team might actually need in the lineup, even if it is for just a couple of weeks.

Agree.

Also, even if they're being totally mercenary, he's not that young. Is his age30 season really going to be all that valuable?

Even if he's good, what are you saving yourself having him be Arb4 vs. a FA buyout, or a QO? 5 million?
   16. JJ1986 Posted: March 15, 2019 at 12:50 PM (#5823033)
gotta live without a safety net, guys!
I don't get it.
   17. JJ1986 Posted: March 15, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5823041)
Steven Matz is getting hit hard in the first today.
   18. formerly dp Posted: March 15, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5823043)
Steven Matz is getting hit hard in the first today.

I will selectively decide to avoid reading into spring training performances...
   19. Walt Davis Posted: March 15, 2019 at 04:59 PM (#5823084)
the 2010 Giants left Buster Posey in AAA

In their "defense", that offseason they signed Bengie Molina to a decent-sized -- i.e. they actually seemed to think Posey wasn't ready. They'd even had him play in the Fall League that offseason. For the first month-plus that he was up, he played 1B almost exclusively (two starts at C) until the Giants finally traded Bengie. At least They wait for him to miss the super-2 deadline.
   20. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: March 15, 2019 at 05:39 PM (#5823087)
Also, even if they're being totally mercenary, he's not that young. Is his age30 season really going to be all that valuable?


Also this. He could surprise us all, I suppose, but this isn't a dude whose 6th year you need to be precious about, 90% of the time.
   21. Buck Coats Posted: March 15, 2019 at 11:52 PM (#5823104)
Not only do the Mets have Dom Smith, they also have JD Davis who they just traded for and who put up a 988 OPS in AAA last year
   22. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 16, 2019 at 01:25 AM (#5823109)
Dominic Smith is 6 months younger than Alonso. I haven't watched much of Alonso but would it be that surprising if Smith was better than Alonso this year?

This situation seems to remind me of the Ike Davis/Lucas Duda situation.

Either way, neither is going to be that good for the Mets because the Mets are not allowed to have good homegrown firstbasemen.
   23. formerly dp Posted: March 16, 2019 at 09:26 AM (#5823120)
I haven't watched much of Alonso but would it be that surprising if Smith was better than Alonso this year?

Smith was younger than Alonso when he posted these numbers, so grain of salt and all, but:
Career minors: Smith .285/.350/.422 Alonso: .290/.381/.560
AAA/Vegas: Smith: .300/.361/.460 Alonso: .260/.355/.585
ZiPS: Smith: .244/.296/.380 Alonso .239/.324/.450

I'd be pretty damn shocked, barring injury, if Smith outhit Alonso in 2019. The reality is that Smith was never all that great of a prospect--a lot of the hope around him was based on giving his mediocre numbers a pass b/c of his age relative to his competition. But 2018 took a lot of air out of that balloon.

I like the Duda/Davis comp, except iirc Duda was a fair bit older than Davis (edit--just checked, Duda is a young 33. Davis about to turn 32). And Davis had more of Smith's profile coming up, yeah? Not a ton of power, but good defense and would hit for average...though looking over his stats now, he really hit the f out of the ball at AA.
   24. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5823134)
No, Davis was projected as a power hitter since the day he was drafted.
   25. formerly dp Posted: March 16, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5823145)
Thanks...I guess I'm missing the point of the comp, then? I remember the doubts around Duda mainly focusing on his defense and sort of quad-A type reputation.

It's really hard to evaluate Davis's career arc, though, because of the Valley Fever issue. Was never the same afterwards.
   26. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 12:09 PM (#5823149)
I think the comp is just that Duda was older and had less prospect pedigree, and that one was always going to make the other superfluous.
   27. Brian White Posted: March 16, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5823155)
In their "defense", that offseason they signed Bengie Molina to a decent-sized -- i.e. they actually seemed to think Posey wasn't ready. They'd even had him play in the Fall League that offseason. For the first month-plus that he was up, he played 1B almost exclusively (two starts at C) until the Giants finally traded Bengie. At least They wait for him to miss the super-2 deadline.


Posey had played all of 35 games in the high minors prior to 2010. He did hit .321/.391/.511 in that stretch, but still, 35 games. And he didn't exactly set the AFL on fire in the fall of 2009. I don't think it was at all unreasonable to have sent him down to start the 2010 season. It isn't that analogous to Alonso's situation, where he's got an entire year of destroying AA/AAA under his belt.
   28. formerly dp Posted: March 16, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5823156)
That's kinda fair...but Smith had *more* prospect pedigree than Alonso coming into 2018, yeah? Duda never had any, that I can remember.
   29. PreservedFish Posted: March 16, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5823169)
Yeah, isn't it Smith:Davis::Alonso:Duda? I don't know, I didn't bring it up.
   30. formerly dp Posted: March 16, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5823204)
While we might suck at developing guys who can play 1b, I'm astounded that the farm has managed to cough up two very good outfielders.
   31. JJ1986 Posted: March 27, 2019 at 12:41 PM (#5825727)
Alonso has made the Mets.

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