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Saturday, February 07, 2009

Amore: Rice Struck Fear Into Yankees

There is nothing to fear but Derf Scratch himself.

It’s not often professional athletes admit to being scared, especially old-time Yankees.

But when the topic is Jim Rice, talk of fear flows freely.

“I know I was scared when he came up,” said Graig Nettles, who played third base for the Yankees when Rice was hitting screamers for the Red Sox in the 1970s and ‘80s. “I knew he was trying to hit the ball hard down the third base line. I used to play back on the outfield grass because I knew he wasn’t going to bunt.”

Nettles, Ron Guidry, Goose Gossage, Bucky Dent and Rick Cerone surrounded Rice, the newest Hall of Famer, Friday at the Connecticut Sports Foundation against Cancer dinner at Mohegan Sun. Gossage, inducted into the Hall last year, was the guest of honor, but Rice was the center of attention.

“George Brett was the best hitter I ever faced,” Guidry said. “The best hitter. But the hitter who scared me the most was J.R. I was afraid to pitch to this man because you knew if you made a mistake, somebody was going to get hurt.”

Repoz Posted: February 07, 2009 at 12:17 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: hall of fame, history, red sox, yankees

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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 01:40 PM (#3070030)

Instead of the BBHOF, shouldn't Rice have been inducted into the Horror Hall of Fame?

2. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 07, 2009 at 01:47 PM (#3070031)

the only thing we have to Rice is Rice itself

3. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 01:56 PM (#3070033)

Anthony Perkins starred in Rice Strikes Out, based on Jimmy Piersall's autobiography.

4. Swedish Chef Posted: February 07, 2009 at 02:00 PM (#3070034)

The way the whole Rice mythos is growing it is just a question of time before people start sacrificing their firstborn in the mighty temple of Rice the Dreaded.

5. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 07, 2009 at 02:09 PM (#3070036)

the mighty temple of Rice the Dreaded.

"..of Doom!"

6. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: February 07, 2009 at 02:29 PM (#3070039)

I believe in Keyser Soze and the only thing I'm afraid of is Jim Rice.

7. michaelplank Posted: February 07, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3070043)

The Dread <strike>Pirate</strike> Red Sock <strike>Roberts</strike> Rice

8. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:09 PM (#3070047)

“George Brett was the best hitter I ever faced,” Guidry said. “The best hitter. But the hitter who scared me the most was J.R. I was afraid to pitch to this man because you knew if you made a mistake, somebody was going to get hurt.”

I'm positive more pitchers were afraid of Brett in '80 than they were of Rice in '78. It's not even close or arguable.

9. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:18 PM (#3070048)

I realize it's simply become the theme for discussing Rice among his contemporaries, but Dave Winfield popped up on a pre-game show on NESN a year or so ago and chatted with Rice and the host, and pretty much said all these same things; that when he was with the Yankees, they would have pre-game meetings and say not to get Rice 'riled up,' whatever that meant.

Old ballplayers' memories and all that, and I wouldn't rely on them to put a man in the Hall of Fame, but it's at least worth mentioning.

10. philly Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3070052)

I think people who dislike Rice's election to the Hall and fear that his election will water down Hall standards are missing the fact that these stories are actually good things.

Rice is in the Hall, so nothing is going to effect that. But the more media and old player accounts that make Rice a player who evoked a singular fear amongst his contemporaries the less likely he will be a gate keeper to a watered down Hall.

You may think that Rice and players with similar numbers have equivalent Hall cases, but the people who write and beleif these stories most certainly do not. The more outlandish the fear claims, the less likely that Rice's numbers will water down Hall standards.

11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:27 PM (#3070053)

they would have pre-game meetings and say not to get Rice 'riled up,' whatever that meant.

I'm sure that you would agree that Rice wasn't the only slugger that the Yanks had pre-game meetings about.

12. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:34 PM (#3070054)

"You fellas are wrong. You didn't fear Rice. We know you didn't, because of his numbers."

13. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:46 PM (#3070058)

"You fellas are wrong. You didn't fear Rice. We know you didn't, because of his numbers."

Nobody is saying that Rice wasn't feared, Joe. Some of us are only contending that Rice wasn't the most feared player during his career, except for a couple-year stretch during the late '70s.

14. Dan Szymborski

Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:49 PM (#3070060)

Of course, Ron Guidry had reason to fear Rice considering Rice killed Guidry out there.

Now, I wonder how frightened Jim Slaton, who held Rice to 233/281/311 in 96 plate apperances, was of Rice.

15. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3070061)

Nobody is saying that Rice wasn't feared, Joe. Some of us are only contending that Rice wasn't the most feared player during his career, except for a couple-year stretch during the late '70s.

The same rationale applies to this statement.

16. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 03:58 PM (#3070064)

I want to hear players say that they feared Brett, or Parker, or whoever. They're so mesmerized, so brainwashed into thinking that they feared only Rice. I wish they'd snap out of it.

Some guys, like Slaton, they knew the score.

17. Swedish Chef Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:08 PM (#3070068)

The more outlandish the fear claims, the less likely that Rice's numbers will water down Hall standards.

The more likely it is that other players are inducted based on similar ridiculous stories.

18. Repoz

Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:28 PM (#3070073)

I was afraid to pitch to this man because you knew if you made a mistake, somebody was going to get hurt.”

Outside of Red Sox rallies...is there any documentation of Rice actually hurting someone with his hitting?

19. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:32 PM (#3070074)

Outside of Red Sox rallies...is there any documentation of Rice actually hurting someone with his hitting?

SCIENCE!!!!

20. Howie Menckel Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:34 PM (#3070076)

"Nobody is saying that Rice wasn't feared, Joe."

Um, I believe a regular poster here said exactly that, on many occasions.

21. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:45 PM (#3070085)

More than one, with all the "me too" ers.

22. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:48 PM (#3070089)

Um, I believe a regular poster here said exactly that, on many occasions.

I was just talking about on this particular thread, Howie.

23. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 04:50 PM (#3070092)

Nobody is saying that Rice wasn't feared, Joe. Some of us are only contending that Rice wasn't the most feared player during his career, except for a couple-year stretch during the late '70s.

The same rationale applies to this statement.

What does this mean, Joe? Are you implying that Rice was the most feared hitter of his time?

24. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 05:19 PM (#3070151)

Not "most". How can anyone make that claim? All I say is that he was feared, by the accounts from his peers. That's all.

25. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2009 at 05:27 PM (#3070172)

All I say is that he was feared, by the accounts from his peers. That's all.

Which I didn't dispute at all here on this thread.

26. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: February 07, 2009 at 05:33 PM (#3070184)

Of course, Ron Guidry had reason to fear Rice considering Rice killed Guidry out there.

I looked that up, and you're right. For his career, in 83 PA's Rice hit .360 / .422 / .653 / 1.075. Not shabby.

But in 1978, when both of them had their career years, those numbers were .154 / .214 / .154 / .368. And he had more PA's against Guidry that year than in any other.

27. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 07, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3070230)

I agree with philly in #10--as i said in one of the ENDLESS Rice threads during/after the HOF vote--Rice's election was sui generis--it will NOT "dilute" the Hall w players w/ similar numbers--this "TEH FEAR" booshit actually ensures that

why has no one has ever mounted a fear-based campaign for Hondo?

my memory is that after about 1980/81--other players (and announcers) paid lip service to TEH FEAR, but, secretly, Rice wasn't that feared any longer

(he had a very short fear peak)

28. Ray (RDP)

Posted: February 07, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3070382)

During the interview Rice stated:

1. That he hit Guidry well.
2. That he didn't like facing Eckersley or Quisenberry.
3. That he doesn't think Fenway helped him because he was a right-center hitter.
4. That he hit well in Yankee Stadium because he was a right-center hitter.

What impressed me about Rice during the interview is that he seemed to take the time to think about the answer to a question instead of just blurting something out. He also seemed to be aware of what his actual numbers were in various splits -- he specifically mentioned at one point that his numbers in a particular situation were X.

Of course, I can't explain why he thinks he wasn't helped by Fenway.

29. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: February 07, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3070386)

Of course, I can't explain why he thinks he wasn't helped by Fenway.

uhhh..has ANY Red Sock EVER admitted that possibility?

30. Chris Hansen, NBC Dateline Posted: February 07, 2009 at 07:15 PM (#3070390)

So when do the Albert Belle, Hall of Famer articles start popping up? I mean, if you wanted someone who instilled fear to everyone within five miles of the ballpark...

31. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: February 07, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3070455)

So when do the Albert Belle, Hall of Famer articles start popping up? I mean, if you wanted someone who instilled fear to everyone within five miles of the ballpark...

And every sportswriter has trick-or-treated. That's fear they can relate to.

32. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 07, 2009 at 11:40 PM (#3070731)

Which I didn't dispute at all here on this thread.

I wasn't addressing anyone in particular, just the tone in general towards Rice.

33. AROM Posted: February 08, 2009 at 12:54 AM (#3070763)

Stupid talking point which just will not die. Instead it just feeds on itself.

34. AROM Posted: February 08, 2009 at 12:58 AM (#3070766)

Gossage faced Rice 34 times and usually got him out. A line of .235./.235/.412. Rice did homer off him once.

So Gossage shut Rice down, but because Gossage was afraid while doing it, Rice deserves the HOF anyway.

35. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: February 08, 2009 at 01:10 AM (#3070770)

Aren't we long past this Rice-Fear stuff? It's all about A-Roid now.

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Amore: Rice Struck Fear Into Yankees

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