Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, June 18, 2019

Angel Hernandez’s Lawsuit Against MLB Just Got Really Interesting | FanGraphs Baseball

But Hernandez missed something. Hernandez’s lawyers should have pointed out to the court that whether or not a labor relations privilege exists depends not on the forum state of the lawsuit, but instead based on the law of the state where the communications occurred. If Hernandez spoke with his union in St. Louis, for example, he would have done so in reliance on Missouri law, not New York procedural law. Without that, though, Hernandez was arguing only public policy – what the court should do, not what the court can do. As a matter of public policy, Hernandez had the better argument. As a matter of procedure, MLB had the far better argument. The court heard oral arguments on this issue, and on June 12 decided to side with MLB: the union was required to produce those documents. That’s a significant ruling, because there is now federal case law in MLB’s home federal forum that communications between an employee and their union is not confidential.

This holding is a game-changer for more than just the umpires. Should there be litigation between MLB and the MLBPA or a player, there will be no privilege protecting the player’s communications with the union from disclosure to MLB. For the MLBPA, that should be deeply troubling, especially given the fraught nature of its relationship with the league as we approach new CBA talks in 2021.

Jim Furtado Posted: June 18, 2019 at 11:07 AM | 18 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angel hernandez, angel hernandez sucks

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. The Duke Posted: June 18, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5853141)
Still not clear to me why they simply can’t fire him, pay him what he wants and move on. All umpires will be gone in 10-15 years - it’s not time the precedent matters
   2. Scott Ross Posted: June 18, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5853197)
Woah woah woah -- all umpires will be gone? That seems extreme. I've been itching for robo-umps for 15 years, but even I want to keep a couple of humans around.
   3. Lassus Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5853219)
All umpires will be gone in 10-15 years

Predicting the Driverless Car - in 1958
   4. Sunday silence Posted: June 18, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5853236)
so glad I may be alive to see the end of human umps.
   5. Bote Man Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:38 PM (#5853256)
There's no doubt about it, next year every car in America will have holes in the side.
   6. Rusty Priske Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:40 PM (#5853259)
We will not lose human umpires in the next... we'll say 30 years.

That doesn't mean we won't get robo-umps in that time, but it will just be for balls & strikes. There are lots of other umpiring decisions to be made
   7. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: June 18, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5853269)
Still not clear to me why they simply can’t fire him, pay him what he wants and move on.


Because businesses don't like giving millions of dollars to people without getting something in return. I don't know the pay scale for MLB umps but even if Hernandez only expects 8 more years of employment (he's 57) I'm betting his lost wages he would be looking for in a wrongful termination suit or severance package would be in the millions. Even at $250K a year you're looking at $2,000,000 not counting interest.
   8. The Duke Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:14 PM (#5853277)
Exactly what other decisions do umps make other than balls and strikes that can’t be completely automated? Almost all plays at bases can be automated right now. 90% of plays don’t even need an ump ( just my guess ). You could play the honor system and defer to replay when their is a disagreement. The question isn’t whether we can do it in 15 years but whether there is a will to do it.

The I-phone didn’t exist 15 years ago and the commercial internet didn’t really exist 25 years ago.
   9. Zonk Will Have the Chicken Kiev Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:27 PM (#5853283)
Woah woah woah -- all umpires will be gone? That seems extreme. I've been itching for robo-umps for 15 years, but even I want to keep a couple of humans around.


Meh... Even when he was a Cub, I'm not sure I'd have objected to a Dalek-type umpire grinding John Lackey into pulp.
   10. Bote Man Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5853292)
You guys suggesting that they do things by half...PFFFFT! Just automate the whole thing and enjoy eSports!!
   11. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 18, 2019 at 04:53 PM (#5853295)

The I-phone didn’t exist 15 years ago and the commercial internet didn’t really exist 25 years ago.


The fact that major changes happened in short time frame does indicate that major changes to baseball (or whatever aspect of society) could happen in a short time frame -- but that _doesn't_ mean any specific major change is more likely.
   12. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: June 18, 2019 at 06:58 PM (#5853332)
I’ll play along.

Stuff that will be hard to automate: balk calls, infield fly, time out, catcher interference, runner interference, catch/no catch, check swing strikes, tag plays, tagging up, missing bases.

None insurmountable but it’d be a pretty choppy game if every one of them requires replay.
   13. The Duke Posted: June 18, 2019 at 07:22 PM (#5853335)
Other than check swings and catch/no catch I’ve seen literally none of those that required umpire intervention in my daily perusal of ballgames. But fine, put a referee out there for things like that. I concede you need someone to project manage a few issues like that and to coordinate replay. Not sure you even need them on the field
   14. Jose is Absurdly Unemployed Posted: June 18, 2019 at 08:36 PM (#5853372)
So we all get to wait for the guy in the booth to report back what he (or she) saw on the screen? That should speed things up.

I understand why people want things to be automated, replay has been a smashing success.
   15. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:10 PM (#5853394)
I agree with Harmon Microbrew. Many activities on the field will be hard to automate. Using the list in 12:

Balks - The only way to do this it to apply a hyper literal interpretation of the balk rule which will drastically increase the number of balks called.

Infield Fly - The rule includes a subjective interpretation ("reasonable effort") which makes a completely automated approach suspect and likely lead to inconsistent results

Time out - Either you need extremely good microphones to hear an infielder or runner at a base call time out or you an unmistakable visual signal (which can be done without thought in a split second). Certainly possible, but not necessarily easy.

Catcher interference - automatable

runner interference - This has some subjective elements, so might not be real easy to automate fully

catch/no catch and check swings were conceded in 13, so not addressed

tag plays - This might be difficult to get right. With all the camera angles we have today, reply on tags is often inconclusive.

tagging up - Since this depends on catch/no catch, it has all the same problems

missing base - automatable
   16. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:31 PM (#5853402)
I'll add a few:

Obstruction
Interference
Illegal slide
Illegal blocking the plate

   17. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: June 18, 2019 at 09:41 PM (#5853405)
And just like that, Jose Abreu commits interference as a batter striking out on a SB attempt. I don't know how one automates that.
   18. Javy Joan Baez (chris h.) Posted: June 19, 2019 at 11:47 AM (#5853557)
Meh... Even when he was a Cub, I'm not sure I'd have objected to a Dalek-type umpire grinding John Lackey into pulp.

I think having Dalek umps would be...something.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Infinite Yost (Voxter)
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogCubs are living to regret Craig Kimbrel's $43 million contract
(34 - 12:38am, Sep 23)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogFallacy of lively ball
(100 - 12:27am, Sep 23)
Last: caiman

NewsblogOlney: Why nobody might want to be Boston's GM ($)
(11 - 12:14am, Sep 23)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogHow did World Series champions who missed the subsequent postseason respond the year after?
(13 - 12:05am, Sep 23)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogIn first, Israel qualifies for Olympic games in baseball
(6 - 12:05am, Sep 23)
Last: Brian C

NewsblogKC Royals’ Danny Duffy talks bullying, anxiety, depression | The Kansas City Star
(49 - 11:59pm, Sep 22)
Last: Darren

NewsblogJoe West ejects Yankees’ Boone amid clash with rookie ump
(28 - 11:31pm, Sep 22)
Last: Jose is Absurdly Unemployed

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (September 2019)
(191 - 11:16pm, Sep 22)
Last: vortex of dissipation

Gonfalon CubsApproaching the Finish Line
(91 - 10:49pm, Sep 22)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogPadres fire manager Andy Green; communication issues cited
(11 - 9:56pm, Sep 22)
Last: Mr Dashwood

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - A New Season is Upon Baldrick
(874 - 9:45pm, Sep 22)
Last: Jose is Absurdly Unemployed

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for the weekend of September 21-22, 2019
(233 - 7:57pm, Sep 22)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogAubrey Huff, Seth McClung feuding on Twitter
(6 - 6:55pm, Sep 22)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOT - August/September 2019 College Football thread
(423 - 6:00pm, Sep 22)
Last: it's hittin' 53450n.

NewsblogHall of Fame manager Tony La Russa remaining with Red Sox
(7 - 3:50pm, Sep 22)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

Page rendered in 0.3711 seconds
46 querie(s) executed