User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats
|
AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets. |
For wholesale prices on baseball gifts and equipment, check these stores out! |
Page rendered in 0.5453 seconds
50 querie(s) executed
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
This is like Jose Lopez and other pieces of #### for John Danks.
Which is unfair to Corbin I suppose, but he’s so far away they’re basically just acquiring a roll of the dice.
Apparently they have asked the Dodgers for Kemp or Ethier.
It's Ed Wade. He traded Schilling and Rolen in the primes of their career for Vicente Padila, Travis Lee, Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Placido Polanco, Bud Smith, and Mike Timlin.
Sorry for all the questions. I am just puzzled.
Re: 15: It really does seem like they must have thoughts of flipping Saunders.
#6 - I assume that the prospect is Hank Conger. Conger is probably not going to be able to stay at catcher - he just re-injured his shoulder this week. A shoulder he had surgically repaired a couple of years ago. But, Conger should be able to hit in the bigs. His bat played better at catcher - but it might work at a corner in the NL. He has increased his walk rate and he looked pretty good in the Futures game. He looked like a hitter. His walk rate is solid (40BB in 300 AB's), but his power numbers are down.
Anyway, as it stands this is the steal for the Halos and even with Conger as the PTBNL, this is a clear win for LAAoA.
Nice to be on the right side of a trade for once.
Agreed.
Was Arizona under some kind of pressure? Did Haren demand to be traded? I thought he was signed at a reasonable price? How do you trade a quality pitcher in his prime? Who trades a rotation anchor unless the organization's back is to the wall?
I'll echo this -- I thought the smoke about AZ moving Haren was "if we're blown away". Clearly, this isn't a "blown away" type of package, even if the D-Backs' opinion of Saunders is significantly higher than everyone here's. This seems like a monetary issue, but since Saunders is about to get expensive, maybe they're flipping him.
I would have happily given them Porcello and crap prospects though.
Everyone else must have been asking Arizona to pick up some of the contract or something, but even so, Saunders is about to enter arbitration and has some shiny W/L numbers for his career (if not this season). This just doesn't make any sense on any level.
I think you have to conclude that Arizona's decisionmakers are complete morons. Occam's Razor and what not
I think with Pettitte reportedly progressing nicely, the Yankees had zero urgency.
They're not going to acquire someone that forces them to put two of Hughes, Burnett and Vazquez in the pen for the postseason.
I'm just remarking on how the Yankees have been acting just like the Theo-era Red Sox at the trade deadline - rumors flying around all the top players, multiple reports it's "close", and then... nothing. This is what Theo has done just about every single deadline since he's been GM. It's funny that for reasons I don't understand, now the Yankees are doing it.
I don't think Theo should have completed most of the trades he was rumored to have "almost" gotten done, for instance.
Perhaps Arizona has medical information on Haren that made them not want to risk giving him one more start before getting acceptable major-league level players in return for him . . .
That's Lincecum, not Haren.
Why? Because he's struggling?
Young starters do that. He has to pitch through it and learn. He's not going to learn anything pitching in the pen.
Sounds like Mr. Hall wants to take credit for this move. This is just a short sighted corporate financial move.
I'm not sure that Theo "did" anything at all those deadlines past, and I'm not sure that Cashman is doing anything this year. It's not like they can stop people from "reporting" any damned thing they please. Some of the same people who told us that the Yankees were on the verge of getting Haren two days ago are now saying that they were "never seriously engaged."
Chrizzist, that is an eye-spinningly horrible deal for Arizona.
Go A's! Oakland is the hottest team in the AL, now. They just finished off the White Sox, who were supposedly playing well coming into the series.
- Joe Saunders + 6 kidneys
= Profit!
Derrick Hall's definition of "A-plus deal" is getting 3 free tacos after the Dbacks score 6 runs.
That's a pretty good promotion. Who doesn't like free tacos?
My guess is they're looking at the Padres and thinking "Hey, Jeff Moorad did it over there, why can't we do it over here?" There are some basic problems with their thinking, of course, namely the fact that Jeff Moorad has people who know what they are doing, and they have some really good talent evaluators. I think Dipoto is a smart guy, but this is DHall and KKendrick calling the shots, and this won't end well.
Haren has been pretty darn mediocre for a year now. He had a bad 2nd half last year and a bad first half this year.
Over his last 35 Starts, 240 IP he is 12-13 with a 4.73 ERA, and has given up 38 homeruns amongst his 260 hits allowed Of course he has a stellar K/BB ratio, 227/49, so that would seem to indicate it's mostly bad luck with BABIP and HR/FB ratio. But I'm not so sure it's that simple. I think there has been a slight degradation of his stuff. Also, NL hitters are being more aggressive with his first offerings now......Haren always throws strike one.
His stuff has seemed straighter and more hittable, and there might be some evidence of that in pitchfx, especially with the cutter, which he was using for so much of his success his first year and a half in AZ.
This doesn't look like a good deal for AZ at first....it will look better if they get Skaggs. Maybe they should have just held out for more or not traded him, but clearly that was not an option financially. If it's true that they are planning to go to 60-65 million payroll, then they HAD to trade Haren.
Salary dump, with some potential return is about the best they could do when selling a guy low under duress.
edit: whoops! coke to the dude himself....
76 homers? No wonder they traded him!
What duress?
over my last 35 starts I've given up 38 home runs: only allowed 23, though.
what's my secret? pitching coaches everywhere ask........
That's not really going to change in Los Angeles of Anaheim.
Check back at the end of the year; his total won't be far off.
Nick speculated that earlier, seems like it's confirmed. He did write "barring something unexpected" - which to me, at least, says the Dbacks may opt out for 12 flea infested blankets instead.
Twenty-two year old Kenley Jansen picked up his first major league save today. This time last year, he was just being converted from a A ball catcher to pitcher (he was the Dutch's catcher in the WBC). In the brief time he was in the minors (56.7 IP), he had a K rate of 15.4/ 9 IP. Last year, his K/9 IP was 14.7, and he mostly was a starter. When Dwight Gooden struck out 300 batter in his A ball season, he K rate was 14.1. Granted, Gooden was just 19, but the Dodgers have something special in Jansen.
My neither Harvey. I've had hopes the Reds were in the Oswalt market, but c'mon if this is all it took to get Haren the Reds could have blown this offer out of the water (in fairness to LAA, I'm sure they would have gave up more for Haren if they had to).
I think you could make a very reasonable argument that, given the contracts, that Haren was worth than Lee this trading deadline.
Joe Saunders??
The Dbacks *must* think this is indicative of his true performance going forward. But his BABIP is by far the highest of his career (.350). This could be due to a degradation of stuff, though. It's hard to say without a scouting analysis or an analysis of the Dbacks defense.
(I understand some guys have a no-trade clause)
This is basically the equivalent of signing Haren to a 2 year deal at $16mil/per with an option, if he was a free agent this offseason he'd easily get a contract at least twice as long.
That has to be worth a package better than what the angels gave u (even one beter than he proposed yankees ones).
Couldn't the royals have thrown together a package? Haren would be better than any free agent signing they could possibly make, and would be cheaper too.
Arizona's struggles the past few years have to be a bit of a surprise don't they?
weak division, a system loaded with prospects, two great pitchers etc etc.
FWIW, I think he had Minnesota & Detroit on his no-trade list.
Counterintuitive Malcolm Gladwell explanation to follow.
Two great pitchers? Well, Billy Buckner thinks you're too kind.
Brandon Webb has started exactly 1 game over the last two seasons, and he was already toast mid-way through the 2008 season as well. They've had one great starter in Haren, and he's been pretty mediocre this year to boot.
Additionally, they traded the better prospects to acquire Haren; since being traded, Quentin has put up 127 OPS+ in Chicago, and CarGo has put up 117 OPS+ the last two seasons in Colorado. For comparison, the best hitter on the Dbacks roster since the Haren trade has been Upton, with 118+ OPS. All the other guys (Reynolds, Drew, Young, Jackson) have underwhelmed.
It didn't help that they invested 30m in Eric Byrnes. Heck, the Byrnes extension, followed by the Haren and Valverde trades, did so much damage to the Dbacks organization that it'll take them years to recover - by which time Upton, Reynolds, et al, will be nearing free agency, so they'll be traded for some projectable guys to fuel the inevitable run in 2019.
If I am reading you correctly, and I could be mistaken here, you are unhappy with the direction of the Diamondbacks?
Such a weak division that it includes the teams with the 1st and 3rd best records in the NL?
Sh*t son, I was born angry. And it just kept building. Ha!
I kind of meant the D-Backs over the last 5-6 years (I do agree that the NL west is now a strong division).
I remember back in 2005 their system seemed loaded.
Even now when I watch them I expect them to be better, just because I see all the old prospects I used to think would be super stars.
Is it just a fluke? did they just trade away the wrong prospects and keep all the guys who flopped?
Staff ace gets hurt; a stupid signing hamstrings the budget; the hiring of an unproven manager goes poorly; bad trades (Valverde, for one); black swans, such as CoJack coming down with Valley Fever, of all things...
The NL West has the best overall record of any division in the NL this season, despite the Dbacks.
They had the best overall record of any division in the NL last season, despite San Diego.
As you correctly point out, they haven't been weak for a while now. The average division in the NL is still weaker than the average in the AL, but that difference seems to be shrinking, and the NL West has been the strongest in the NL at least for the past year and a half. That may change if the Dodgers have to cut payroll because of the divorce, although losing Manny's contract will help. He still is hitting, but not at the same level, and can't stay healthy and can't play defense, so a cheaper option could replace him fine.
I like Corbin, he's a very good prospect, but that does not make you a super athlete. I'm 6'3". I can't jump now but when I was Corbin's age I could dunk with or without a running start. Two hands was easy, could almost but not quite dunk backwards. You can see where all that super-athleticism got me.
I suspect the majority of 6'3 athletes under 200 pounds could do the same.
Really? I'm 6'3" and could never dunk.
Many of the guys I played with (or more accurately watched play) who were my height couldn't dunk.
Two guys I came up with who were both 6'3" ended up playing scholarship ball at well-known colleges couldn't dunk without a running start (and not two handed).
Alternatively, the Astros will overplay their hand and demand too much for Oswalt since they know that most people's fallback position is no longer available.
So you're saying that you expect Manny Ramirez to join the Mets any day now?
DB
Harvey, maybe duress is too strong a word. But attendance has completely tanked. If they "need" to lop 15-20 million off the payroll...which is looking likely.....then they had to start with Haren. There was no other way.
Haren has a habit of getting worse as his seasons have gone along. His strike out-rate and walk-rate tends to hold steady. His problem is that his home runs allowed per AB goes up as the season drags on and he gets tired. His BABIP also inflates a lot (by .051 for his career) and I think that is mostly due to the fact that he is getting hit much harder when he gets hit--more line drives, more hard hit fly balls to the outfield, more home runs. I doubt his BABIP regularly inflates in the second half of Haren's seasons because each year the defense behind him goes bad.
So while it is true that his Tango numbers say he projects very well going forward, they don't account for his usual second half swoon. Go A's!
But trading your best pitcher for a lousy return will surely hurt attendance for the rest of the year and have an adverse impact on season ticket renewals next year. If this really was the best package they could get for Haren now -- which seems unlikely -- it's not obvious that they wouldn't have been better off holding onto him at least for the rest of the year and trying to make a better deal in the off-season.
Then there are season ticket renewals, which actually go out pretty soon...like in another month or so.
The only thing that is going to keep season ticket renewals from completely collapsing is the All Star game.
Link
Kudos to Zuvella (#71) and GS4RB (#81) for the Gladwell and "black swan" references. If someone makes an allusion to street-gang economics, this thread will be complete!
Valid arguement. The Royals and Pirates say hello. I'm just trying to offer some possible insight into what they MAY be thinking. Of course they may think that Corbin and Sakggs(?) are going to be great, and in the meantime Saunders is going to win 15 games the next two years. I have no idea.
One point .......Haren's market value is/was lower than everyone here and at fangraphs thinks....because the people who set the market value are the buyers. And the buyers look at his last year of poor results and feel he is not as sure a bet as he was 12 months ago. So there was never any chance that the d backs were going to get as good a haul as everyone thinks they should have. This deal appears to fall short of even pessimistic expectations though, I agree. You almost never make a good deal when you feel you HAVE to make a deal. That seems to be the case here.
In the article he mentions briefly Haren's HR/FB rate...(13.9% vs. lg avg 10%) The Fangraphs article referred to Haren's HR/FB rate as "unsustainable". That may well be the case in Anaheim. But in Chase Field, it's been pretty high the last two years running, and is high for his career. (Over 11%)
His HR/FB rate was over 12 the first two years he was a starter in Oakland, that bastion of the long ball. He had a two year "dip" in HR/Fb to just a bit better than league avg.... and now it's back up over 12 over the last two seasons combined.
So the HR problem Haren has is not a "fluke". His HR/FB rate is only about 1-2 percentage points higher than it should be expected to be.
The other point Sheehan tried to make is Harens batted ball profile hasn't changed. Thats not true. Haren is inducing a career low rate of GB. In fact the GB rate has dropped every year for 5 straight years. His LD rate has held steady. So the .350 BABIP of course looks unlucky, and is.......to a point. But Haren has definitely been more "Hittable" the last 12 months. It's not ALL bad luck. Nobody watching his every start would think it was bad luck. The quality of contact against him is clearly better. These aren't just bloopers falling in.
Still....a change of scenery and getting out of Chase Field and back in the NL West should help him.
We're talking donuts right?
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main