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Sunday, June 22, 2014

Angels release 42-year-old Raul Ibanez

He finishes his Angels tenure with a .157/.258/.265 slash line, three home runs and 21 RBIs in 190 plate appearances.

Another notch in the belt for Father Time.  That bastard never loses.

Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 22, 2014 at 03:25 AM | 64 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, final call, raul ibanez

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   1. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:48 AM (#4732627)
One of only 66 players in MLB history with 1,000 runs, 300 HR, 2,000 hits and 50 SB.

(Keep scrolling.)
   2. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: June 22, 2014 at 11:14 AM (#4732638)
Dayton Moore just HAS to pick him up now. HAS to.
   3. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 22, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4732643)
Re: #1
I couldn't figure out why the SB>=50 requirement was needed, and then I realized it left out a LOT of big name players:
Ted Williams
Joe DiMaggio
Frank Thomas
Cal Ripken

The list goes from 66 to 91 if you remove that requirement.
   4. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: June 22, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4732728)
I think this leaves Chris Ianetta as the active HR leader in players whose name begins with the letter I. Ibanez can feel safe that he'll hold the career record for the foreseeable future.
   5. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 22, 2014 at 02:13 PM (#4732732)
Paging Mr. Amaro, Mr. Ruben Amaro.
   6. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: June 22, 2014 at 02:16 PM (#4732735)
Great career for someone that got such a late start to it.
   7. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: June 22, 2014 at 02:22 PM (#4732737)
Ibanez' 276 HR from age 30 onward is tied with Killebrew for 22nd. (Giambi is 291 and counting, Ortiz 270, Barry 503. Yow.)
   8. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: June 22, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4732790)
I think this leaves Chris Ianetta as the active HR leader in players whose name begins with the letter I. Ibanez can feel safe that he'll hold the career record for the foreseeable future.


At least until Tommy Imgonnahitlotsahomersmuthafucka makes the majors.
   9. Bourbon Samurai Posted: June 22, 2014 at 04:10 PM (#4732806)
At least until Tommy Imgonnahitlotsahomersmuthafucka makes the majors.


in a suprise to everyone, he turned out to be a middle reliever.
   10. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 22, 2014 at 04:27 PM (#4732817)
Ibanez is the poor man's Bobby Abreu.
   11. JRVJ Posted: June 22, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4732839)
5, Ibáñez did the Phils a solid by WINK WINK agreeing to be offered arbitration as a Class B FA and then not accepting it WINK WINK. Pretty sure that got the Phils an extra 2nd round pick in a draft a few years back.

(My recollection may be slightly inaccurate, and I'm on my cellphone so I can't really look it up, but I do remember when it happened).


   12. Cooper Nielson Posted: June 22, 2014 at 07:15 PM (#4732983)
Ibanez is one week younger than me, and he was the second-oldest player in the majors this year.

I'm rooting for Jason Giambi to last forever. (Or for Jose Contreras to come back from Mexico.) Incidentally, Benji Gil was the first player in the majors younger than me.
   13. bobm Posted: June 22, 2014 at 08:07 PM (#4733125)
[11]

Buster Olney:

In case anyone wondering, PHI's arbitration offer to Raul Ibanez was a wink/nod situation; they know he'll reject offer, they get a pick.
7:49am - 24 Nov 11


https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/139686981557956608
   14. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: June 22, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4733164)
[Ibanez' 276 HR from age 30 onward is tied with Killebrew for 22nd./quote]
it's not only that he hit a lot of homers after age 30, it's that he had only 27 through age 29
   15. Matt Welch Posted: June 22, 2014 at 09:31 PM (#4733184)
First younger than me: Gary Sheffield, 1988.
Last oldest than me: Omar Vizquel, 2012.
   16. GregD Posted: June 22, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4733187)
Ibanez is the poor man's Bobby Abreu.
He's not really a fit for Abreu, though, since he was such a different player. Not just inferior but different.

In fact I find it hard to think of a good comp for Ibanez. Obviously a highly unusual career arc. But also a strange mix of talents, somebody who was both hugely respected and also comically overmatched on defense, at least at his worst.

I thought the Phils' signing was laughable, but he gave them two good years. After his 2011 collapse, I figured he was through, but he had two more decent years in front of him.

The guys who come up as comps--Conine--seem comically different from him. The guys whom he kind of resembles with a squint--Paulie O or Alou or maybe even Bonilla--were way way better than him.

Hal McRae pops up on his list and is an interesting comparison, a good and widely respected ballplayer who had no defensive position and who didn't play a complete season until he was 28 but then had an at-times distinguished career. But McRae was quite a bit better at the plate...
   17. steagles Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:08 PM (#4733198)
how about geoff jenkins as a comp?
   18. DanG Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:11 PM (#4733199)
One of only 66 players in MLB history with 1,000 runs, 300 HR, 2,000 hits and 50 SB.
Adding in 700 walks brings the list down to 50 players. On top of that, a 400 doubles requirement ejects nine more.
   19. theboyqueen Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:22 PM (#4733210)
Geoff Jenkins was a very good defensive player, wasn't he?
   20. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:26 PM (#4733213)
Ruben Sierra isn't a bad comp; they just had the opposite career arcs.
   21. Walt Davis Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:30 PM (#4733216)
how about geoff jenkins as a comp?

Jenkins was an excellent defender in his prime.

With some help from PI ... maybe Klesko. Probably walked too much and didn't last long enough. Bob Watson is close on rate stats but didn't really have that much post-30 playing time.

Looking at guys with lots of PAs from 30 on, the second half of Eddie Murray or Tony Perez look pretty close and they'd have surely had laughable moments in the OF if anybody had been silly enough to play them there. Dawson is quite close as a hitter but maintained defensive decency for too long for the comp to hold real well.

Ibanez's lack of walks mess this up. A fair number have similar OBP/SLG but they mostly are in the 260/350/460 sort of group.

Some even older farts can correct me but my memory is that McRae's lack of playing time early was injury-related and that really the whole trade to KC was because his ankles were shot and the AL had that new DH thingy. He played more OF early in KC than I remembered but pretty much stopped playing there after 31.
   22. DanG Posted: June 22, 2014 at 10:51 PM (#4733223)
George Hendrick and Don Baylor have very similar numbers to Ibanez - except they were running about four years younger than Raul when they posted them.
   23. GregD Posted: June 22, 2014 at 11:20 PM (#4733235)
Hendrick is interesting, different shape and somewhat better hitter, but likewise a guy who hit the ball pretty hard but didn't take many walks. They seem like polar opposites in the personality department.
   24. PreservedFish Posted: June 22, 2014 at 11:46 PM (#4733250)
My Ibanez memory is of Rob & Rany complaining, when the Royals acquired him, that he would never have anything to offer the team.
   25. danup Posted: June 23, 2014 at 02:05 AM (#4733280)
Ruben Sierra isn't a bad comp; they just had the opposite career arcs.

Ruben Ibañez is an all-time-great combined-career guy—3325 hits, 490 home runs, 2000 RBI, and all of 40 career WAR. Eat your heart out, Johnny Damon.
   26. DanG Posted: June 23, 2014 at 02:13 AM (#4733282)
First younger than me: Tim Conroy, 1978.
Last older than me: Julio Franco, 2007.
   27. Walt Davis Posted: June 23, 2014 at 03:27 AM (#4733289)
If, like me, you were wondering how Ruben Ibanez could have only 40 WAR ... that is nearly 17000 PA between them so it's also -20 WAA. Ibanez actually has slightly more PA than Larry Walker ... and some claim there's a God.

They also combine for an impressive -145 Rfield ... which is still 50 runs better than Sheffield.
   28. Walt Davis Posted: June 23, 2014 at 03:37 AM (#4733290)
I might have found the right comp ... Kevin Millar. Millar had only 2 PA before 27, Ibanez less than 150. From ages 27-36:

KM: 277/360/457, 112 OPS+, 5100 PA, 17 oWAR, -9 dWAR (remember they don't add)
RI: 288/349/474, 114 OPS+, 5150 PA, 21 oWAR, -8 dWAR

So better walk rate for Millar but Ibanez almost makes it up in BA and they have the same ISO. Millar was mainly at 1B but still got over 300 starts in the OF and, I'd forgotten this, 27 starts at 3B. Ibanez was a bit better but close enough I think.

Ibanez of course kept playing after 36 but adds only 2 WAR (8 oWAR but -60 Rfield) with one good and one horrific season.
   29. Cooper Nielson Posted: June 23, 2014 at 04:39 AM (#4733291)
Last older than me: Julio Franco, 2007.

That's probably the case for 50% of all baseball fans. :)
   30. alkeiper Posted: June 23, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4733417)
All Stars with lowest career WAR at age 28

A few players with similar career paths. Dale Long, Al Zarilla, Mike Easler, Bob Cerv, Jim Lemon. All became marginal stars in their early 30s, though none of them carried out their good years as long as Ibanez. Cerv I always pictured having a significant career, but he had less than 3000 PAs total.

Cy Williams looks like a good comp if you want to go way back. The live ball era highlighted his skills and made him a star. He played center but I suspect that was because the Baker Bowl didn't have much of an outfield anyway.
   31. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: June 23, 2014 at 10:40 AM (#4733421)
First younger than me: Rich Garces
Last older than me: Mariano Rivera

If I'm reading things right, I would think that Mariano aged a lot of people out, looks like from there it jumped more than a year to Giambi. Nowhere near the Moyer tsunami but still.
   32. GregD Posted: June 23, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4733439)
If Giambi holds on, I'm still a blank on the last player older than me. Pudge was the first player younger than me. (It doesn't come up that way in the year by year list since Van Poppel was even younger but came up later in 1991.)

   33. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 23, 2014 at 11:44 AM (#4733484)
First younger than me: Ivan Rodriguez (November 21, 1971 - debuted June 20, 1991)
Last older than me: Jason Giambi (January 8, 1971 - still active)
   34. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4733500)
First younger than me -- Ryne Sandberg, who was born 9/18/59, a day after I was; Tim Raines was born the day before me. Pretty good company.

Last older -- Julio Franco, of course.
   35. GregD Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4733508)
RTF,
I think Pudge's birthday is Nov 27, not Nov 21
   36. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4733513)
The first player younger than Ivan Rodriguez to debut was Todd Van Poppel.
   37. GEB4000 Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4733516)
A poor man's Hank Sauer.
   38. dlf Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:14 PM (#4733518)
First player younger: Junior Griffey
Last player older: Omar Vizquel

First person enshrined in Cooperstown younger than me: Robbie Alomar

   39. esseff Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4733537)
First younger than me -- Ryne Sandberg, who was born 9/18/59, a day after I was; Tim Raines was born the day before me. Pretty good company.

Last older -- Julio Franco, of course.


Of course, the first player younger than you isn't necessarily the one born closest after your birthday. For example, Tom Brunansky is nearly a year younger than you and Sandberg and played in the majors before Sandberg did. (Don't know if he's the answer for you, but he's one that comes up quickly as players younger than Sandberg debuting in 1981 before Sept. 2).
   40. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4733542)
RTF,
I think Pudge's birthday is Nov 27, not Nov 21


Whoops. Doesn't change anything for me, however.
   41. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:39 PM (#4733544)
First younger than me: Rick Porcello
Last player older: TBD (hoping it's Clayton Kershaw)
   42. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:41 PM (#4733546)
How are you guys figuring this player thing out?
   43. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM (#4733548)
Of course, the first player younger than you isn't necessarily the one born closest after your birthday. For example, Tom Brunansky is nearly a year younger than you and Sandberg and played in the majors before Sandberg did.


Good point.

It's Monday, though; I don't have the energy for that level of research.
   44. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:44 PM (#4733552)
Re: #1
I couldn't figure out why the SB>=50 requirement was needed, and then I realized it left out a LOT of big name players:


use 1200 ribbies instead of 1000 runs and you get 62 players

Make it 2000+ hits, 300+ HR, 1175+ RBI and 50+SB, after age 26, you get him as 1 of just 23 players
   45. dlf Posted: June 23, 2014 at 12:45 PM (#4733555)
#42 - Look at the 'other leaders' pages by season at baseball-reference. For example, last years: linkity link
   46. esseff Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:05 PM (#4733573)
How are you guys figuring this player thing out?


Exhaustively, unless there's a shortcut I'm not seeing. After 30 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, I determined Andy Hassler was the first major-leaguer younger than me and Nolan Ryan the last who was older.

Real answer: Started with the table of players born in 1951, the year of my birth, at bbref. The season of each player's first and last game is listed in the table, so you can start by finding the guys who played the earliest and latest seasons. But, of course, if you find eight guys who played their first game in, say, 1970, you have to find individually which one came up first. And, if your born smack dab in the middle of the year as I was, you also have to click on every candidate to determine which are younger than you and which older. If you're born Jan. 1 or Dec. 1, the job will be easier. Finally, you have to check a range of a few years before and after your birth year for players who played earlier or later. For example in my case, Nolan Ryan and Carlton Fisk, both born in 1948, were still in the majors longer than anyone born in 1949, 1950 or 1951. Simple.
   47. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4733576)
First younger than me: CC Sabathia
First older than me: TBD

   48. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:12 PM (#4733583)
At least one of the answers for HW has to be Cap Anson, no?
   49. cardsfanboy Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:14 PM (#4733586)
First younger than me: Rich Garces
Last older than me: Mariano Rivera


Me too. I still remember when Griffey Jr came up that he was "my age"(although technically older, he was the first name guy to be my age)
   50. cardsfanboy Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:16 PM (#4733588)
I think Pudge's birthday is Nov 27, not Nov 21


If Irod was Nov 21st that would put at least 3 (current/future)hofers on the birthdate.(oops four...didn't know about Freddie Lindstrom)
   51. cardsfanboy Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:20 PM (#4733592)
Exhaustively, unless there's a shortcut I'm not seeing. After 30 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, I determined Andy Hassler was the first major-leaguer younger than me and Nolan Ryan the last who was older.


There is an easier way. Go to the seasonal leaderboard there is a list of the youngest and oldest players each year with the birthdays. Keep going down the years until you find a qualifier.
   52. Nasty Nate Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:37 PM (#4733611)
There is an easier way. Go to the seasonal leaderboard


Using this, there were no players younger than me to play in the 2000 season. But for 2001, all ten players in the mixed leaderboard were younger than me. Apparently a bunch of people slightly younger than me made their debut that year (Dunn, Pujols, Zambrano, Beckett, Izturis, Berroa) but, by coincidence, none of them had cups of coffee in 2000.
   53. Cooper Nielson Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:37 PM (#4733613)
This helps, if you're at least in your mid-30s:
http://www.seanlahman.com/baseball-archive/youngest-active-player-chronology/
   54. GregD Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4733621)
There is an easier way. Go to the seasonal leaderboard there is a list of the youngest and oldest players each year with the birthdays. Keep going down the years until you find a qualifier.
That's what I did then checked the youngest players in the year where someone came up younger than me (since Van Poppel was the youngest player that year, but Pudge came up earlier in the year. It took me 2-3 minutes, not 30, going this route.)

   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4733624)
This helps, if you're at least in your mid-30s:
http://www.seanlahman.com/baseball-archive/youngest-active-player-chronology/


There is an easier way. Go to the seasonal leaderboard there is a list of the youngest and oldest players each year with the birthdays. Keep going down the years until you find a qualifier.

Thanks.

Looks like Rich Garces was the first player younger than me, and Giambi is the last player older still active, barring a Darren Oliver comeback.
   56. esseff Posted: June 23, 2014 at 01:56 PM (#4733639)
So not only did I waste time by going the scenic route, I got the wrong answer. #53 shows Forster to be the first player younger than I am.
   57. steagles Posted: June 23, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4733700)
justin upton for me.
   58. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4733719)
First guy younger than me was Ankiel. There are still lots that are older.
   59. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: June 23, 2014 at 03:33 PM (#4733750)
First younger than me: Edgar Renteria
Last older: Not sure. There are still more than a dozen active players older than me.
   60. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 23, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4733787)
I've done this exercise before, and used CFB's method in #51. The first younger than me is Aramis Ramirez;

I'm 36 so there are still plenty (though getting fewer) of guys older.
   61. cardsfanboy Posted: June 23, 2014 at 04:00 PM (#4733801)
(Dunn, Pujols, Zambrano, Beckett, Izturis, Berroa) but, by coincidence, none of them had cups of coffee in 2000.


Albert Pujols played in the first game of the season, so there is a good chance he qualifies for you.
   62. Nasty Nate Posted: June 23, 2014 at 04:08 PM (#4733813)
Albert Pujols played in the first game of the season, so there is a good chance he qualifies for you.


Yes it's probably him, assuming... ////insert joke about Pujols' real age/////
   63. Canker Soriano Posted: June 23, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4733855)
With Rivera and Darren Oliver retired, there's no one older than me anymore. Le sigh.

First player younger was Rich Garces. I commemorate that fact by trying to mimic his body type.
   64. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 23, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4733872)
With Rivera and Darren Oliver retired, there's no one older than me anymore. Le sigh.

First player younger was Rich Garces. I commemorate that fact by trying to mimic his body type.


We must have been born very close to the same time. Giambi is a month and 12 days older than me.

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