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Francisco made Chad Kreuter's rampage at Wrigley look like a pillow fight.
'Insane' Francisco loses it in Oakland?
if we could limit rhetorical questions.
True and Francisco did pitch a scoreless inning. Though I believe he left the bases loaded.
Stupid move on Francisco's part. No reason to elevate it to violence. And throwing a chair is even more stupid.
F
A fan has called in and is claiming that Francisco was swearing at fans, flipping them off, and challenging them to come on the field and fight him. Has to be taken with a grain of salt, of course.
Please tell me we had a primate in the vicinity to relay the real story.
Also, I want to ditto the fact that "nothing was thrown at the players...no fans went on the field...no verbal jarring went on that would eject a fan...". This falls on the Rangers and Francisco. He not only should be suspended, but arrested. It was simple assault.
Yeah, but that's because you're an A's fan. If you had been a Rangers fan, you might think differently :p.
F
On the old Primer, there would be a Lionel Hutz posting just about... NOW!
It says clearly on every ticket that there is a risk of flying objects going into the stands, and that fans must be aware at all times.
If this woman wasn't aware that these are major league pitchers, and that when they throw something it's gonna come hard and it's gonna come fast, well then, she shouldn't be at a baseball game, should she? Get outta the way, lady, and quit yer griping.
And what the hell was she doing sitting next to some loudmouth, anyway? Anybody with half a brain ought to know that sitting next to a drunken boob spouting off to the players is a major risk. She should have gotten out of there, pronto, much earlier.
It's these frivolous lawsuits that are killing our economy! Killing it, I tell you.
* * * * *
Seriously, if that idiot pitches another inning this year, the Rangers (and MLB) should be ashamed of themselves. Tom Hicks ought to trade him to Vince McMahon for Ric Flair and a wrestler to be named later.
WOOOOOO!!!!
Somewhere, Magnum TA weeps very quietly, knowing what could have been.
And I think we can easily explain Francisco's behavior when we remember that he went to college at Indiana...
Is there any video of this one? The Cubs thing went on for a while as multiple players went into the stands. This, from what I read, sounds like some yelling & one chair getting tossed. If the chair tossing wasn't on camera then there's no good video to play over and over and over.
Were you sitting over there? Is that all you can tell us? If you weren't sitting over there, how can you know what was said?
Texas To Play Sans Francisco
I don't think preterite was speaking as an eyewitness. I understood him to be relating what the A's are saying happened:
(per, the A's front office).
Which, of course, is important to know, but represents the classic one side of the story.
Regardless of how abusive the fans were verbally, of course, there's just no excuse for throwing a chair into the stands. It's reckless, dangerous, and more than likely to injure innocent bystanders. As, in fact, happened.
I should have been clearer. That was a response to the other Kurt, who said he was at the game and could verify that account.
I know Preterite wasn't at the game because he was in the chatter all night.
Baudib? Backlasher? Rauseo?
I thought Beane jokes about chair throwing was going to be the entire theme of this thread.
That what you had in mind Joe?
...on the second deck. So no, I couldn't hear anything that was said. But I saw what happened and no fans were ejected, which is why I said that.
Also, there is defninitly video of this incident. Some TVs at the park were showing the telecast of the game, and they showed the replay of the chair being thrown several times.
1. Brocail, after a night of steady bullpen heckling by a paricularly vituperative fan, finally has enough and calls a fan on! Readers of this will understand the incredulity of the collective fans at this. Anyway, he had to be restrained. At this point the entire donnybrook broke out, but Francisco just got caught up in mob mentality.
2. Showalter, after a night of his customary petulance over any close call, doesn't do anything to mellow his players out. Instead he struts truculently in front of the offended patrons. To add insult to injury, he brings in Brocail to pitch in the 9th and Cordero to save the 10th.
3. Francisco. Throwing a chair into the audience is absolutely inexcusable.
4. Cordero, who, after Brocail was being restrained by the bullpen coach, starts screaming at the fans and yelling "your mama" back at the fans and glaring menacingly at the very light crowd of 15,000.
5. Almanzar, who just thrust himself to the front of the rhubarb.
(Nice use of SAT word, Gabe)
I'm not questioning that. I saw the incident while I was watching the game. You just made it sound like you heard what was said.
The Dallas Morning News is reporting that Francisco was arrested this morning on a charge of aggravated battery. Francisco was quiet and cooperative after he was taken into custody according to an Oakland PD official.
Standard "you're terrible, going to get rocked, your mother is a tramp" stuff. The ESPN link proves my point about Showalter's culpability that his soundbite actually tries to spread the blame to the Oakland fans.
AND PARTIAL SENTENCES....
That Beane guy throws a chair, and he's a genius. I throw a chair, and I'm an idiot. It just isn't fair.
It seemed as if she was there with the heckler, because he left with her and appeared pretty concerned.
Was there any attempt by stadium personnel to quiet this guy down before Brocail went off? One question that comes up is what if anything the NA stadium people were doing while this situation was apparently escalating.
It should go without saying there is no excuse for what Francisco did, under any circumstances. However, this Rinatti guy has been running around making some pretty self-serving statements about who was wholly at fault here. Did security personnel not become involved in this until after the chair was thrown? If so, what does that say about the job Rinatti and his crew are doing?
There were about 10 security people between the Rangers and the fans by the time the chair was thrown.
Thanks. I spent the morning driving to work getting mostly bad information from the Mike & Mike Show.
Actually, it's just more evidence that chairs should be abolished. This could all have been avoided if they sat in beanbags.
That's a little hasty, don't you think? I, for one, hold more dear my Second Amendment right to throw things when I get upset than my First Amendment privilege to yell stupid #### at baseball players.
I think a good compromise would be to hand out plush replicas of Rob Neyer books for the fans and relievers to hurl at one another when things get testy.
That could be a good gimmick. Get a bunch of hard-throwers and call them Death Row. Have the manager dress like a guard and unlock the cuffs when they get to the mound.
i knew it was oakland that had all the miscreants!
Were you asked to provide a statement by police? Your testimony could be important if FF goes on trial for assault.
To be honest, I don't see how there was any excuse at all, no matter what happened. FF was well out of range of the fans at that point, so he was in no even theoretical danger from him. In fact, the likely reason he threw the chair was that he knew he couldn't get close enough to the guy to actually take a swing.
Those two are as inciteful about baseball as an Eskimo would be about citrus. They could talk for days about Cuttino Mobley stubbing his toe, or Jeremy Shockey catching his coat as he stepped out of the limo, but if you told them Tony Gwynn had retired it would be news to them.
I don't disagree with that. But I would probably go more lenient on the punishment if the guy had been physically assaulted, just because it's more understandable in that context that he might lose control and act recklessly.
It wouldn't excuse, but it might mitigate the punishment.
Haven't you ever heard of the delicious limes of Baffin Island. I love Baffin Lime Pie.
Now. The throw wasn't as bad as I was imagining, it was more of a general lob than the fast winging of a chair that I was imagining. It's kind of amazing that he hit the fan who was heckling him, in that huge crowd. It's also amazing that the fans were hurt, seeing as how the chair just kind of floats in there. I think I would duck.
With that said, you can't throw a chair into the crowd.
Mariano Rivera could get wheeled out Hannibal Lecter-style, with that face mask on.
This is a great idea!
Or, Eskimo Pie for short.
Sorry.
And, thanks Gabe, for the inside scoop.
A 10-game suspension should do it from baseball. But he should definitly be prosecuted in a court of law.
Wow. A man attacks and endangers the paying customers of your business with a heavy metal object, AND it causes major injuries to one of those customers, and you're going to give him about the same suspension you give Sosa for using a corked bat?
In almost any other line of work, an employee who did what Francisco did would be fired, no questions asked. If a suspension doesn't last the rest of this year and well into (if not through) 2005, I'll be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed.
It's gonna be a ##### for them to warm up with those cuffs on. Now that's pitcher abuse.
"That's the best control we've seen from Francisco all year."
"Three strikes and you're out!"
"With Francisco's suspension, the Rangers are looking to sign Bobby Knight..."
Are you trying to compare ML Baseball Player to a Real Job? hahahha!
I would be both surprised and disappointed. The picture of a bloodied woman is going to do Francisco in, I think. She is no William Ligue Jr.
I still would like to know what people could have said to bait Doug Brocail? It's Doug Brocail!
Then the A's need to bring back "Cuffs".
I'll get another easy one out of the way...This breaking news just in, Frank Francisco is still a jackass.
No excuse for what Francisco did, but between the playoff incident last year, the trash throwing last week, and now this, I'd say there's pretty good evidence that Coliseum security staff needs an upgrade.
Oh, and don't you hate pants?
Maybe something like: "I don't mean to insult you, but aren't you Doug Brocail?"
From ESPN.com game wrapup.
No, its the lack of a salary cap.
Since when is it security's job to make sure the fans don't say mean things to the poor widdle baseball players?
Well, that's his problem; he's Doug Brocail.
F
Exactly my point. "Hey Brocail, you're a slightly below league-average pitcher!"
I'm sure it had something to do with his family or someone else's family. I'm sure these guys have heard everything else, but to talk about a family could set someone off like that.
The offender will remain anonymous, but the point is: Anyone can be heckled.
Did I just miss it while looking away, or did the Texas broadcast sugarcoat the entire thing?
From the Oakland Tribune, we have: "Rangers reliever Doug Brocail was screaming at the fan as an A's security guard tried to hold the pitcher back, and then his teammates got to the action. An eyewitness later said the fan never cursed at Brocail, but was taunting him about his weight."
Which may explain why Francisco didn't just pick up Brocail and hurl him at the offending fan(s) . . . .
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