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Saturday, July 26, 2008

AP: Dodgers Acquire Casey Blake From Indians

The Cleveland Indians have traded third baseman Casey Blake and cash to the Los Angeles Dodgers for two minor leaguers, a person familiar with the deal told The Associated Press on Saturday.

Blake, who is eligible for free agency following this season, has been dealt for catcher Carlos Santana and right-hander Jonathan Meloan, said the source who spoke on condition of anonymity because the teams are still awaiting approval of the deal from the commissioner’s office.

Tony H. Posted: July 26, 2008 at 04:55 PM | 50 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, indians

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Stately, Plump Buck Mulligan Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:08 PM (#2874945)
Smooth.
   2. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:12 PM (#2874947)
I don't hate this deal, provided the FO lets Blake walk at season's end.
   3. still hunting for a halo-red october (in Delphi) Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:12 PM (#2874948)
And the universe's hatred of Andy LaRoche continues unabated.
   4. OrioleJMC Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:13 PM (#2874951)
What about Andruw?
   5. shoewizard Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:27 PM (#2874973)
Andy LaRoche = Carlos Quentin.

I'd make fun of Ned if it weren't for that.
   6. JuanGone..except1game Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:32 PM (#2874976)
Goodbye sweet, sweet beard.

I'm pretty pleased with the haul that Shapiro got. Meleon looked devastating as a power-arm out of the bullpen, so hopefully he'll convert back to that instead of as a starter, and Santana seems like an impressive young catcher who can stay at the position, and makes up a little for the overpay in Max Ramirez for K-Love last year.
   7. robneyer Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2874977)
FREE ANDY LaROCHE
   8. rr Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:39 PM (#2874985)
I'm pretty pleased with the haul that Shapiro got.


Agree. Getting Meloan makes it worth it. Solid move.

I think Ibanez will be a Met within 48 hours, and Bay, Holliday and Dunn will stay put.
   9. Ziggy's screen name Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:43 PM (#2874988)
Santana? Really? I mean, some of his work in the 70's was great, and he had that one hit a couple years ago, but he's way over the hill. And when did he start catching?
   10. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:44 PM (#2874990)
And the universe's hatred of Andy LaRoche continues unabated.
It's all about timing. The job was his to win in March, but he busts up his thumb in a freak play and now it's wait 'til next year.
   11. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#2874996)
Why has Santana been held in A+ all season?

This is a great haul for free-agent-to-be Casey Blake. It's a lot more than the Pirates just got for Nady and Marte.
   12. JuanGone..except1game Posted: July 26, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2875001)
Santana? Really? I mean, some of his work in the 70's was great, and he had that one hit a couple years ago, but he's way over the hill. And when did he start catching?


Ziggy,

I was going to attempt to slip a joke about Black Magic in my last post, but it just looked like overkill.
   13. rfloh Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:04 PM (#2875005)
There's a pretty good chance Blake ends up as a type A. He was the highest ranked type B in the AL after 2007, among 3bs, 2bs, and SS. If he was in the NL, he would have been a type A.
   14. akrasian Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:05 PM (#2875006)
Why has Santana been held in A+ all season?

He's fairly new to catching, and they wanted him to play every day. Lucas May, also converted to catcher a couple of years ago and also a good catching prospect, has the AA job. AJ Ellis (who will probably be the backup to Martin next year) is at AAA.
   15. PerroX Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2875009)
FREE ANDY LaROCHE

You mean the guy with the 68 OPS+?
   16. jayjay Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:15 PM (#2875012)
In 68 plate appearances. Spread over a month and a half.
   17. JJ1986 Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:19 PM (#2875020)
The Indians also just reportedly got Anthony Reyes for a relief prospect named Luis Perdomo. I don't know anything about him.
   18. MM1f Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:19 PM (#2875021)
Someone explain to me the "Adam LaRoche needs to play" BS.
I'd agree that he should probably still in the Dodgers long-term plans, and acquiring a rental like Blake seems to show that he is, but I don't see how a contender can count on him this year.
It isn't just a 60 AB "small sample" thing concerning his MLB performance but his AAA line does not look good AT ALL, especially considering it comes in Vegas.

Whether because of injury or suck he can't, or at least isn't, swinging the bat well AT ALL right now. Walks are fine but you can't tell me it is a good thing for a prospect to be able to do little else but walk when he is, supposedly, MLB ready and hitting in Vegas.

I don't see how the low average, low XBHs and super-high walks don't give others the impression of a guy who is struggling to swing the bat right now.



16,
What about his AAA line?
   19. The District Attorney Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:24 PM (#2875028)
You're arguing that 277/444/420 is "not good AT ALL"? We could argue about exactly how good it is, but not good AT ALL? BTW, capitalizing "AT ALL" is fun!
   20. Len Lansford, Carney Barker Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:26 PM (#2875033)
Alas, poor Casey, I knew him well. And his facial hair. There's people in the area dancing in the streets at Blake's departure, which is odd given he was essentially the second coming of Brook Jacoby. Nice haul, regardless. Santana has a great name and, with his power, could push Shoppach/VMart in a couple years. Meloan might be closer of the future material too. I'll take it.
   21. Flynn Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2875040)
The Indians just got Anthony Reyes for an AA reliever.
   22. MM1f Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:35 PM (#2875042)
"You're arguing that 277/444/420 is "not good AT ALL"? We could argue about exactly how good it is, but not good AT ALL? BTW, capitalizing "AT ALL" is fun!"

The line itself is superficially OK but how it is made up is concerning. The guy is a power hitter is a sluggers paradise and he can't hit more than .277, has 2 doubles and his walking all the damn time? That doesn't concern you that maybe it is the result of a guy swinging the bat poorly right now, and knowing that he can't hit solidly?

You really want a guy whose only plus ability at the moment, in AAA, is to try to squeeze a walk out and see if that will play at the MLB level?
   23. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2875045)
Please.
Stop.
Misquoting.
Shakespeare.


That will be all, thank you.
   24. BFFB Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:43 PM (#2875046)
I'm always suspicious of guys who do sod all but walk in the minors, where pitchers don't always have the greatest control. So I'd say that line would be great for the majors but not great for a minor leaguer.
   25. Endless Trash Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:44 PM (#2875049)
.309 /.399 / .589 isn't good at all?
   26. Halofan Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:44 PM (#2875050)
To Blake or not to Blake, that is the Casey.
   27. MM1f Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2875054)
25,
That was his line LAST YEAR. It is pretty painfully clear that this year is a 100% different story. Whether due to injuries or suck (probably injuries), he is at all the same kind of hitter right now as he was then.
It isn't just some sample size thing, look at how he is putting up his numbers. Theres no HITTING there, just a bunch of walking. The player that put up those numbers in 07 ISN"T THERE so far this year. Isn't it obvious that if a power hitter can't do more than draw walks in Vegas something is probably pretty wrong?
Now you could wait around and hope that he starts feeling better or snaps out of it or whatever it is that is happening and maybe lose an easy to win pennant or you could make a move to win this year and give him a shot in '09 when he might be at his best.
   28. Endless Trash Posted: July 26, 2008 at 07:55 PM (#2875067)
25,
That was his line LAST YEAR.


Yes, I know that. So what? Ignoring last year and focusing only on this year is as arbitrary as ignoring April and focusing only on July. Gee, over the last 5 days LaRoche is hitting .308! Who cares what he did before that!

His line in AAA THIS YEAR isn't great, but it's not horrible and it's based on a sample that is 1/5th of his total career in AAA.

If he'd been playing all year in AAA I would be with you, but 119 AB's while being jerked around? Come on.

For his career he is .307 / .410 / .541 in 586 AAA AB's, including this year.
   29. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 26, 2008 at 08:00 PM (#2875079)
#27

Honestly, what it says to me is that he is probably in a pretty sucky lineup. When you can draw that many walks, evan in the minors, it means pitchers are pitching way around you. If he was really hitting like suck, pitchers would be challenging him.

I certainly wouldn't worry about those numbers one bit, unless his swing is looking really ugly (which I can't say cause I haven't seen it lately).
   30. greenback slays lewks Posted: July 26, 2008 at 08:07 PM (#2875104)
The Indians just got Anthony Reyes for an AA reliever.

That sounds like something to help La Russa.
   31. MM1f Posted: July 26, 2008 at 08:08 PM (#2875109)
29,
The Las Vegas lineup features 3 hitters with .900+ OPSs in 300 or more at-bats and two more with OPSs over .900 in over 100 at-bats.
   32. MM1f Posted: July 26, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2875132)
Yes, I know that. So what? Ignoring last year and focusing only on this year is as arbitrary as ignoring April and focusing only on July. Gee, over the last 5 days LaRoche is hitting .308! Who cares what he did before that!

His line in AAA THIS YEAR isn't great, but it's not horrible and it's based on a sample that is 1/5th of his total career in AAA.


Firstly, comparing year-to-year performance to month-by-month performance is a stretch.

Secondly, if you read anything I wrote you'd see that my concern doesn't come from someone having a down year. My concern is that the LaRoche of '08 bares hardly any similarities to the LaRoche of '07 or '06 or whenever.
For whatever reason, the same hitter is not taking the field right now. This isn't about the amount of variation one can expect from year to year.. it is about the fact that his stats are showing a guy whose talent level right now is pretty obviously different, and lower, than before.

And while his AAA line this year "isn't great but isn't horrible" that is true from a pure production standpoint only. I would say that, as far as projecting his hitting onto the MLB stage it is actually pretty poor, especially considering that (as I've said many times before) he is a power hitter in one of the easiest places in the world to hit a baseball a mile. An anonymous minor league vet named John Lindsey has 19 homers and almost 50 XBH in less than 100 games. Terry Tiffee has 37 doubles already, Luis Maza was hitting .400. Mike FREAKIN' Koplove (a 160 pound sidearming relief pitcher) has one homer and 3 RBIs in 4 at-bats!
   33. PerroX Posted: July 26, 2008 at 08:30 PM (#2875159)
For his career he is .307 / .410 / .541 in 586 AAA AB's, including this year.

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
   34. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 26, 2008 at 09:12 PM (#2875303)
That sounds like something to help La Russa.

Well played, sir.
   35. sardonic Posted: July 26, 2008 at 10:18 PM (#2875407)
I really hope Colletti is thinking like some Dodgers fans and trades LaRoche to the A's for Street and Crosby. No way I do that trade if I'm the Dodgers, but man LaRoche would be a perfect fit for what Oakland needs right now.
   36. OrioleJMC Posted: July 26, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2875434)
Could it be that Andy LaRoche is simply a gimp? I think the Dodgers should give him a shot, but I have my doubts that he will be some super duper player given his injury history, and his lacklustre performance in the majors.
   37. Jimmy P Posted: July 26, 2008 at 10:59 PM (#2875482)
Someone explain to me the "Adam LaRoche needs to play" BS.

Exactly. He's 24, never gotten regular playing time in the bigs, and has killed the ball at every level of the minors. It's pretty obvious that he needs to improve, and until he improves, he should sit! He needs to get his numbers up before he gets in the lineup!
   38. akrasian Posted: July 26, 2008 at 11:36 PM (#2875616)
Andy LaRoche had surgery on his thumb during spring training. Even though he's officially healthy now, he wouldn't be the first player who temporarily lost a lot of power coming back from a hand or wrist injury - which sure seems to fit in with his performance this season at two levels. He should get the power back - the question is - should he be taking playing time in the majors during a pennant race while trying to regain his power, or should he be doing it in AAA until he shows he has his swing back?
   39. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: July 27, 2008 at 01:26 AM (#2875844)
Shapiro says he'll be pursuing Blake in the free agent market over the winter. That seems entirely reasonable to me, given that the Indians have nobody useful at 3B/LF/RF, but I expect there to be rioting in Cleveland if he comes back.

We had this discussion a couple of weeks ago, so there's no need to have it again, but I think Blake's a damn good four-corners utility guy. An unspectacular, league-averageish everyday third baseman, but really a useful player to have around if you use him well.
   40. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 27, 2008 at 01:45 AM (#2875874)
I really hope Colletti is thinking like some Dodgers fans and trades LaRoche to the A's for Street and Crosby. No way I do that trade if I'm the Dodgers, but man LaRoche would be a perfect fit for what Oakland needs right now.

Isn't the issue that Colletti is only allowed to do payroll neutral deals. Aren't the Indians picking up all of Blake's salary? In a hypothetical Crosby-Street deal, the A's would likely have to pick up all the salary or take back someone like Nomar. I'd be fine with the latter. Of course the Dodgers couldn't then trade for Orlando Cabrera.
   41. NTNgod Posted: July 27, 2008 at 03:05 AM (#2876082)
Gammo on ESPN's trade blog:
The reason the Indians were able to get Carlos Santana, a very high-level prospect, in the Casey Blake deal is that the Indians took on all of Blake's remaining $2 million salary. Several general managers around baseball wonder if L.A. doesn't have cash flow problems.
   42. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: July 27, 2008 at 03:09 AM (#2876091)
Or they could just, you know, be cheapskates. McCourt's loony.
   43. akrasian Posted: July 27, 2008 at 03:14 AM (#2876100)
I suspect it's more that McCourt has had enough of Colletti wasting a lot of money on expensive players that don't produce. I think Colletti is likely gone after this season, unless something major happens.
   44. Esoteric Posted: July 27, 2008 at 03:53 AM (#2876194)
I think Colletti is likely gone after this season, unless something major happens.
Bad news for the rest of the NL West.

How on earth could a team like the Dodgers be having cashflow problems, anyway? I guess I'm not really up-to-speed on what the ownership is really like, but isn't this supposed to be a big-market team?

Rather, I suspect Colletti's short leash is related to the Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones debacles.
   45. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: July 27, 2008 at 05:22 AM (#2876284)
After this trade, the Dodgers ain't got nobody in the minor leagues that they can depend on.
   46. akrasian Posted: July 27, 2008 at 05:34 AM (#2876290)
That's just not true. Meloan wasn't a sure thing, although I do like him. But I'd rather have McDonald, for instance. Even for this season, much less the future.

Carlos Santana is the better hitting prospect, but Lucas May is supposedly better defensively than Santana, with both having similar amount of time behind the plate (so Santana's inexperience isn't an excuse).

Not that I'm crazy about this trade. Just because a team has players they prefer, doesn't mean good prospects should be traded for non-exceptional players.
   47. scareduck Posted: July 27, 2008 at 07:25 AM (#2876346)
Bad news for the rest of the NL West.


That assumes McCourt understands what it was that caused him to go from a competent GM to a grossly incompetent one, how he arrived at that decision, and how to avoid a similar mistake in the future. The plain facts are that he simply doesn't. Parking lots, he understands. How to run a ball club, or anyway, how to pick people to run a ball club, not so much.

The black helicopter part of me wonders what part Tommy Lasorda has played in this drama.
   48. akrasian Posted: July 27, 2008 at 07:34 AM (#2876351)
That assumes McCourt understands what it was that caused him to go from a competent GM to a grossly incompetent one, how he arrived at that decision, and how to avoid a similar mistake in the future. The plain facts are that he simply doesn't. Parking lots, he understands. How to run a ball club, or anyway, how to pick people to run a ball club, not so much.

Well, he went with an outsider with good baseball skills who lacked some people skills at first. Then he went with a classic insider without actual baseball skills. The third try will probably be Logan White - an insider who actually has shown good skills at baseball evaluation. And one who values young (and inexpensive) quality players. Colletti's best move was picking up Ethier - on the direct advice of White.
   49. scareduck Posted: July 27, 2008 at 04:15 PM (#2876523)
Well, he went with an outsider with good baseball skills who lacked some people skills at first.

DePodesta? He was the A's AGM! That's no insider, that's someone you'd expect to find as a GM candidate.
   50. JPWF13 Posted: July 28, 2008 at 02:02 PM (#2877635)
it is about the fact that his stats are showing a guy whose talent level right now is pretty obviously different, and lower, than before.


You *could* be right (uin fact I think the odds are in your favor given the injury and all), but statistically given the # of at bats and the normal variation ballplayers have anyway, his numbers do not come close to any "proof" that he's a different ballplayer than 2006-07

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