The Mets have fired manager Willie Randolph, pitching coach Rick Peterson and first base coach Tom Nieto, the team announced shortly after 3 a.m. Eastern time Tuesday.

Bench coach Jerry Manuel has been named the team's interim manager, while Ken Oberkfell, Dan Warthen and Luis Aguayo will join the staff.
...
GM Omar Minaya, who let Randolph twist in the wind without a bona fide vote of confidence for the past month, will hold at press conference at the Angels' stadium at 5 p.m. EDT Tuesday. If the Mets continue to flounder, the scrutiny will undoubtedly shift to Minaya, who is signed through the 2009 season.

NY Daily News

So they fly everyone to the West Coast from New York, play one game, win the game, and THEN fire the staff?
I'm sure the team will go far handling things like that.

The whole Randolph situation has been handled horribly. I feel sorry for Willie, even though he was the manager of the Phillies' rival. It was completely not his fault.

Wait, they beat the Angels tonight. One would have thought this would have happened AFTER a particularly embarrassing loss, not a victory!

Then again, the Mets bullpen almost did blow the lead...

Agree with NTN - why make them fly to LA to only fire them all???

Who did Tom Nieto piss off?

The whole Randolph situation has been handled horribly.

I agree. This was horribly drawn out and to fire him after making him travel is ridiculous. Awfully classless to fire him after making him travel across the country.

It was completely not his fault.

I'd re-word that. It was not completely his fault but he does deserve his share of the blame. More importantly, you had to fire him if the Mets didn't go on an extended winning streak because after every loss, the players had to wonder if their manager was going to be fired. They were tired of answering these questions.

The bull's eye is on Omar's back now. They don't make the playoffs, he is probably gone.

How much is my ticket stub from the game worth? It has a picture of Howie Kendrick on it...

They don't make the playoffs, he is probably gone for sure.

Really? Then why not just get rid of him now? Do you really want a guy who has to make the playoffs (when the team is already 6.5 out) to save his job to be in charge of the team at the trading deadline?

If that is the case, it's a stupid move by the Mets, imo.

I have yet to see evidence of anything wrong that Randolph has done. I've heard "bullpen management" cited but never any examples, just generalizations. And a lot of the Randolph-blame explanations lie in the intangibles, which is an immediate red flag that exclaims "B.S."

Agree with NTN - why make them fly to LA to only fire them all???

Because Minaya has no balls and no class, it appears.

This should have happened before the Mets left New York. Now Minaya comes off as even more indecisive by putting it off that final extra, unnecessary day, and like a cretin for sending Randolph and staff out on the long flight to the West Coast, when not even winning was going to be enough to save their jobs.

The firing happened too late to make most Tuesday editions in-depth, but Minaya is probably going to be absolutely destroyed for the way he handled this in Wednesday's editions, and rightfully so.

NY radio should be fun today.

I have yet to see evidence of anything wrong that Randolph has done. I've heard "bullpen management" cited but never any examples, just generalizations. And a lot of the Randolph-blame explanations lie in the intangibles, which is an immediate red flag that exclaims "B.S."

The Mets are 88-91 since starting off hot early last season. Now, the Mets simply might not be very good but a lot of people think that the Mets are one of the better teams in the NL.

Anyway, the question shouldn't be what Randolph has done wrong. What has he done that is right is the better question.

More importantly, the Willie Watch had become a distraction. Beltran said as much a few weeks ago. The players were growing tired of answering these questions.

It's not fair but sometimes a change needs to happen simply for change's sake.

I have yet to see evidence of anything wrong that Randolph has done.

He is a mediocre manager. I don't think he's awful, certainly not single-handedly sabotaging the season. But I've never even seen anyone argue that he was good at his job.

NY Post: Vaccaro: MIDNIGHT MASSACRE AN AMAZIN' ACT OF COWARDICE

The e-mail was time-stamped 3:14 a.m., Eastern time. In a simpler time, in a different world maybe the Mets New York Mets would have succeeded completely in this cowardly purge of their baseball team. Maybe then they would have been able to hold off on telling everybody what they'd planned to do until long past their vessels in the media were fast asleep.

Ah, but there is this wonderful thing known as the Internet now, and here we are, telling you that while you were sleeping, at 3:14 a.m. New York time, at 12:14 a.m. California time, two hours after the Mets beat the Angels 9-6, the Mets finally got around to firing Willie Randolph.
...
What a crowd these bums are, all of them, from the Wilpons at the top to Omar Minaya down below, all of them who conspired to botch this firing worse than any firing has ever been botched. Ever. You wouldn't trust these guys to run a 7-11, let alone a National League baseball team. What a joke. What a cowardly, dastardly joke.

A midnight massacre.

A three-a.m. thrashing.

Disgraceful. Utterly, completely, disgraceful.

And here's the ridiculous part: they could have gone through the transaction of what they did – firing Randolph, firing Rick Peterson, firing Tom Nieto, elevating Jerry Manuel and Ken Oberkfell and Luis Aguayo and Dan Warthen, at any time across the past few weeks and they would have been perfectly justified.
...
This? This is unspeakable. These men couldn't have been fired in New York, before heading on a plane and flying 3,000 miles to their doom? They couldn't have been spared the ignominy of a public perp walk back east, their dignity thrown into their carry-on luggage?

I have yet to see evidence of anything wrong that Randolph has done. I've heard "bullpen management" cited but never any examples, just generalizations

Really? Mets fans here have repeatedly pointed to Randolph's misuse of Schoeneweiss, Feliciano, Sosa when he was still on the team, and his stubborn usage of Mota when the Mets had him. Just go look at Schoeneweiss' splits. Look at how Randolph used him last year. Look at Sosa's splits. Look at how Randolph used him.

Is is a "generalisation" to say that Schoenweiss is a LOOGY and should be used as a LOOGY?

Is is a "generalisation" to say that Schoenweiss is a LOOGY and should be used as a LOOGY?

Which is exactly how Randolph has used him this year, actually.

Met management (Omar, the Wilpons, whoever is responsible) couldn't have bungled this any worse than they did though.

Could the Mets find a manager that is more similar to Randolph than Manuel? Oberkfell is a favorite of Met fans.

Met management (Omar, the Wilpons, whoever is responsible) couldn't have bungled this any worse than they did though.

Nope. I'm sure Sam will have a message for little Jeffy tomorrow.

As I said in the thread a few weeks ago (which I'm sure many others have said) after the meeting where Willie supposedly saved his job by asking for one more chance or somesuch, once you've gotten to that point, the writing is on the wall and they should have just fired him then. IMO, the only way he was keeping his job much past this point was if the Mets ran off a very good to great streak. Of course, they didn't really come close to that.

The Mets must have read Wally Matthews column in "Newsday" urging Fred to keep Randolph and decided to do the opposite. Which is usually pretty good reasoning.
How did Alomar escape the axe? Both he and Nieto were Randolph hires.
Must be because Roberto was such a great Met.
Mets should have hired Gary Carter. He resembles Jeff.

Nope. I'm sure Sam will have a message for little Jeffy tomorrow.

I've always liked Omar personally but the way he handled this has left a bad taste in my mouth. You just don't treat people like that. Unless he was ordered to fire Willie tonight, he deserves criticism as well.

I've always liked Omar personally but the way he handled this has left a bad taste in my mouth. You just don't treat people like that. Unless he was ordered to fire Willie tonight, he deserves criticism as well.

Whenever Omar screws up, I always harken back to the time (I've told this before) when I was working at Bobby Valentine's, Bobby was in and out over a few months during the offseason, and I argued with him why he should have started Mike Stanley all those years over Geno Petralli. I mentioned that Minaya (gone from the Rangers by then, this was in 2000) had said Stanley was one of the best game-callers he had ever seen. Bobby's response was "Well, Omar likes to drink a lot and run his mouth off."

I'm well-known as not the biggest fan of Bobby V, but I wonder if there isn't some truth to Minaya doing things rashly, or at least not thinking them all the way through once in a while.

If I recall correctly, didn't Jerry Manuel battle the media in his last managing job? This is the guy you want, even on an interim basis?

An appalling finish to an unfortunate situation.

But the earlier message of why make the change was correct. People need to stop thinking of managerial changes in terms of "baseball" and think in terms of MANAGEMENT. You have an organization that is not performing the leadership is duty bound to make a change. It's that simple.

It could be that the goals of the organization have changed and the current person in charge isn't suited for that mission.

It could be that the employees are no longer responding to the individual's message.

If the person "on the ground" is no longer aligned with the needs of the organization then nice person or not they have to be let go.

Perception is (almost) everything and the Mets just keep finding new ways to appear like they have no idea what they're doing. They looked bad after the late-season collapse last year. But they still had a decent season at the end of the day, a core of good players and they went out and got Johan Santana. They appeared to be contenders for 2008. Then they get off to a bad start. Then they start holding press conferences announcing that....ah-hahaha no, we're not firing the manager! Then they do fire the manager after they fly out to the west coast AND WIN A GAME. Okay, fine. A win over the Angels in June isn't going to turn a season around. It doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. But you can't wait a day or two for a loss to happen? Fire the guy after a loss, so it at least looks like a "Look, enough's enough! We've gotta do somethin'!" scenario. I still don't understand firing the guy at all. It's not like Willie Randolph has been managing this team through a decade of late-season collapses and years of managing talented teams that didn't make it to the promised land year after year (hi, Torre). What a mess.

But the earlier message of why make the change was correct. People need to stop thinking of managerial changes in terms of "baseball" and think in terms of MANAGEMENT.

Interesting point, HW. I'm pretty sure I'd disagree, in that I think the differences between managing a professional sports team and the typical environment one studies in business school or includes in large research projects are too great to make anything close to a one-to-one transfer of knowledge. But you're right that there seems to be little to no use of any management techniques that you'd find in a typical corporation (on the baseball side). Hell, almost all the "new thinkers" in the GM spots, if you read between the lines or otherwise, have well-known practices and personalities that wouldn't be hallmarks of good people managers.

Perhaps that's another avenue for maximization a la Moneyball. It's all well and good to encourage new thinking and efficiency, but if you're not establishing a good environment for growth and disagreement and sensible people managing practices, you're still going to have dysfunction.

Newsday:

Waiting at the team hotel in Costa Mesa was general manager Omar Minaya, who made a special trip to Anaheim on Monday but did not take the 15-minute drive up to Angel Stadium to watch the game. Unlike last month in Colorado, this was not to offer his support for a flailing manager and his besieged coaching staff.

No, this visit was to make sweeping changes to the underachieving Mets, and Minaya apparently fired Randolph, along with the two coaches, from his room at the team hotel. The shocking news was delivered by a mass e-mail sent to the media at 3:11 a.m. EST...
...
Minaya was not available for comment, but a person familiar with the situation said that the Mets had come to the decision to fire all three by Monday morning – only hours after the team arrived from New York. And yet they waited more than 12 hours to deliver the news in the middle of the night after one of the more impressive wins of the year.
...
As the Mets filtered into the team hotel late Monday night, many were floored by the news, which was delivered by a couple of reporters in the lobby. Pedro Martinez walked in and was told by Mets equipment manager Charlie Samuels. A few minutes later, he headed for the elevators without comment.

“It doesn’t really change what we have to do,” said Aaron Heilman. “We have to win games. We haven’t played well, but a lot of the pressure that was put on the staff, it’s not necessarily their fault because we haven’t done what all of us expected we would do. Obviously they felt it was time for a change.”
...
Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran both seemed indifferent to the news when approached by reporters and declined to speak any further. Luis Castillo reacted with surprise before turning to tell Fernando Tatis, but they also refused to elaborate on the news.

“I’m in shock,” said Ramon Castro. “I don’t know what to say.”

Jeff:

Willie wasn't canned because of his use of pinchitters, his lineups or his bullpen management. It was because the team wasn't generating expected results. Period.

Now, that other stuff are factors that can impact the output. But ownership doesn't CARE how the results are generated.

They give a goal at the beginning of the year.

Is the company on track? No? Well, they can give that person "x" amount if time to get it on track or he's OUT.

Works that way everywhere whether it's Cisco or the russian mob.

The good news for Willie is he's now an Official Veteran Manager™, which means getting his next job will be much easier than getting his first was.

Willie wasn't canned because of his use of pinchitters, his lineups or his bullpen management. It was because the team wasn't generating expected results. Period.

Now, that other stuff are factors that can impact the output. But ownership doesn't CARE how the results are generated.

They give a goal at the beginning of the year.

Is the company on track? No? Well, they can give that person "x" amount if time to get it on track or he's OUT.

Works that way everywhere whether it's Cisco or the russian mob.

Certainly true. But a good organization provides more than just goals. It provides a structure that is conducive to achieving those goals, among other things. Teams, like business, are varyingly good or bad at doing this, but I haven't seen any indication that anyone is actually using management philosophies to fix their bad organization or improve their good, even the guys that went to Harvard MBA. Now, they probably think like I do with my Finance degree, that Management is for layabouts, but they do teach some awfully valuable stuff in top business school management classes.

I just thought you brought up a good point with that.

Jeff:

I am sure that Omar believes he HAS provided the needed structure.

Having been in management for 50 years I am amused that the Finance guys STILL think they can do better.

Of course, back in the day they were accountants. And spare me the lecture abput the difference. I understand. I also know that once the rebranding took place companies began doing silly and reckless things under the guise of financial management or "the use of financial engineering"

Bah

The Mets have fired manager Willie Randolph

Will the Rangers allow the Mets to speak to Art Howe?

Metsies:

Any validity to Steve Phillips' claim that the Mets didn't want to fire Willie on Father's Day?

This whole pathetic act pretty much confirms that they fired the wrong person, and the problems go way deeper than the manager.

Willie was a terrible manager. I don't care that they punished that poor, poor grown man with an extra couple of flights.

About ####### time.

I think they should have thought about it for another month or two.

Seriously, I think people are getting way too bent out of shape over a flight to the West Coast. It's part of Willie's job and something that he does all the time. It's no big deal to him, I'm sure. The real problem is that they have dragged things out for the weeks leading up to this.

I am sure that Omar believes he HAS provided the needed structure.

Has he, though? From an outsider's perspective it looks like Minaya's at fault more than Willie.

Now that I've walked to work, I think the reason for this was the back pages. NONE of them had this bombshell on it, as it was too late. And tomorrow, in this internet cycle, the madness will have worn off.

#39: That's a good point. I had no idea until I sat down at work.

Darren:

It isn't as bad as an e-mail blast informing employees en masse that they have been terminated or telling someone via confernce call.

But it's pretty sorry leadership.

The Tuesday morning massacre.

Gutless.

Which is exactly how Randolph has used him this year, actually.

He wanted evidence of anything wrong that Randolph has done. Specific examples of Randolph mismanaging the bullpen last year are not "generalisations".

It was completely not his fault.

Of everything everyone has said so far on this thread, this is probably the only thing (I've only skimmed it) I disagree with 100%. Willie Randolph totally deserved to be fired, although certainly there were issues with the team that were beyond his control and for which Omar Minaya, too, may deserve to be fired. Randolph is one of those managers who for the life of him cannot see that there are ways to be a major leaguer other than the way HE was a major leaguer, and that one absolutely essential attribute of a good manager (in any profession, I believe) is to let your staff perform have sufficient freedom to do their jobs in the way that THEY do best, within only the limits appropriate to the organization and the profession, but not in unnecessarily restrictive ways that are simply because you like it that way, or because it was always that way.

Randolph wanted only veteran players because that's all he trusted. Randolph tried to squeeze the life and passion out of the players who played with life and passion because . . . well, because he is a stoic guy who probably hated everything Reggie Jackson ever did on a baseball field to call attention to himself, and thinks the quiet dignity of a Joe Torre is the ONLY way to conduct yourself.

Well, let me tell you something. When you think and insist that one way is the only way, you are a martinet. You are inflexible, and you have no business managing 25 people, and you will fail.

All that said, he conducted himself with absolute class and treated others that way, and for his inability to do the job and his deserving to be fired, he sure as hell didn't deserve to go out THAT way. The Mets just don't seem to be able to figure out the simple things, do they? This sure as hell isn't going to sit well with players who, I'm pretty sure, don't think Willie Randolph deserved to stay (they know a good manager from a bad one, and the signs he'd lost them were abundant), but who surely thought he was a good man and can tell when someone's been screwed around with.

Frankly, I wish they'd given the job to Oberkfell. And honestly, I think there's a decent chance that Warthen may make a bigger difference as the new pitching coach than changing managers may make. Much as I think Peterson was a good coach, even I had become utterly fed up with the consistent inability of Mets' pitchers to just throw strikes. This fundamental flaw has persisted now for Peterson's entire tenure, as pitchers have come and gone, and ultimately I have to believe he is just not emphasizing the importance of this enough. It is the biggest reason why the starters are running up ridiculous pitch counts and thus not consistently able to go into and complete the seventh inning, which puts more pressure on the bullpen. As pitchers (all of them, starters and relievers) get behind in counts, they get mashed. If somehow Warthen can change that one thing -- which is doubtful, but hey, you never know -- and say to them, "JUST THROW STRIKES," I'll be happy.

will Randolph still manage the all star game? that could be deliciously awkward.

The Mets just don't seem to be able to figure out the simple things, do they?

They don't seem to understand how people will react to the things they do. It happened with Black Friday, and now it's happened with the Tuesday Morning Massacre.

will Randolph still manage the all star game? that could be deliciously awkward.

Did they change the rules about who manages all star games?

Oh yeah, and this was 100% bush league by the Mets. You don't treat people like this no matter what business you're in and, if you're Minaya, you have the balls to announce this at a press conference and take the heat.

Along the lines of 44, my favorite was the rule that players couldn't have facial hair unless it was a mustache, like Willie's mustache.

will Randolph still manage the all star game?

He was invited to be a coach, not manage. Clint Hurdle, the manager of the Rockies, will be the ASG manager.

In any event, he will not be participating in this year's All Star game.

The Mets just don't seem to be able to figure out the simple things, do they?

I wouldn't put it past the Yankees (i.e., the Steinbrenners) to suit him up in pinstripes and trot him out on the field at some point during the evening, just to stick it to the Mets.

But the Mets can't have fired him; Mike and the Mad Dog told us that the "window" for doing so had passed.

Regardless of how poorly ownership handled this, it's hard to be impressed by Randolph as a manager, either on the field or off. Despite all of those stories before he landed the Mets job about how discrimination was keeping him from getting a chance, at the end of the day he may just have not been interviewing well.

Are the Mets one of the five most dysfunctional organizations in baseball?
Before this Randolph situation I would have said Mariners, Giants, Blue Jays, White Sox, and then maybe some random lousy team like the Astros, Orioles, or Pirates.

Hey, Willie is in LA. Maybe Torre will take him on as bench coach.

Pretty shabby action by the Mets. Bill Maddon was on Mike and Mike this morning (I was looking for golf highlights when the scroll that Willie had been fired caught my eye) and he pinned all of this on an assistant GM with an Italian name - can't recall it exactly (Tony B...something?). Whoever it is, Maddon seems to really, really not like him.

Anyone know what he's talking about? It sounded like a rant to me.

Anyone know what he's talking about? It sounded like a rant to me.

Tony Bernazard, who wanted Manny Acta as manager back in '04 when the current regime took power.

Tony Bernazard. Second baseman for the White Sox 25 years ago.

They are claiming that Omar didn't do it in person.

IF true----SHAME!!!

Beyond repugnant.

We'll see how much of George Steinbrenner Hank has in him. Because George, in this situation, would hire Randolph as a coach for back-page PR if nothing else...especially since the Yankees play their final series at Shea in less than two weeks. (Yes, haplo beat me to the punch while I was first writing this.)

Over the years, some of us Nats fans -- dismayed with Jim Bowden's procliviity for ex-Reds and "toolsy outfielders" -- have at times wondered whether life would have been better for this franchise had Omar Minaya made the trip to Washington with the Expos instead of getting off the bus in Queens. Based upon moves like this, we don't wonder anymore...even those of us who can't stand Bowden.

#39: I really doubt the media madness will have worn off by tomorrow, almost entirely because of how it was handled (other than that it was not an unexpected or controversial move).
What this will do is keep the Bavasi firing from getting more than a five second mention on ESPN.

Because George, in this situation, would hire Randolph as a coach for back-page PR if nothing else

I said something similar... but thinking about it, it's tough to imagine Willie letting himself get used like that.

Hell, the Yanks ought to sign him to pitch.

Willie is not a good manager, so it's hard to be too upset about him not being there any more, but it's hard to see where Jerry Manuel is going to make any sort of difference. While the pitch count issues were troubling, I do think that Peterson's organizational pitching stuff had made somewhat of a difference, and so I'm more worried about getting rid of him. And tossing Nieto in there is pretty weird, unless they really wanted the three new guys all together.

All the timing does is to put them further under the microscope and make them look crappy, which is an odd thing for an organization to want to do, and which doesn't provide a lot of optimism for the future.

As I understand it, the process went like this:

1) Last year the Mets blew it badly.

2) In the immediate aftermath, Randolph threw the team under the bus, complaining that his team lacked the character and fortitude to win it. (Check primer archives, there was at least one interview with the media where he openly called out the character of the '07 Mets).

3) Minaya kept Randolph and traded away the players seen as having the most questionable character, ranging from the doghoused Milledge, to the cancerous LoDuca, and that middle reliever all Mets fans were happy to see go to Milwuakee. Thus Minaya through his actions backed up Randolph's notions on why the team flopped miserably.

4) Then they obtained Johann Santana, arguably the best pitcher in baseball.

5) Though they began the year heavy favorites to win, they scuffled badly for the first third of a season.

6) Randolph fired.

I have no problem with the decision made by the Mets, though they certainly handled it in as bad a fashion as I've seen in recent times.

When managers blow leads they are always retained the next year, but unless they are bulletproof, the collapse always hurts their status. Minaya spent the off-season engaging in the "give him enough rope" technique. Randolph could either lasso a pennant or hang himself.

it's tough to imagine Willie letting himself get used like that.

True -- the guy has some dignity about him, and is nowhere as pathetic as Billy Martin was in his later years -- but at the same time, he has to know that Joe Girardi may soon be on the hot seat himself, and he might be perceived as the Bob Lemon to Girardi's Martin.

And a lot of the Randolph-blame explanations lie in the intangibles, which is an immediate red flag that exclaims "B.S."

Do you think there's any difference in managing a strat-o-matic team and managing an actual team? Being unable to work with players is a legitimate negative mark. Randolph blamed the players for last year, the roster was altered in accordance with his statements, and now they're in fourth place.

Wow, gutless.

But whatever, the purge is done.

True -- the guy has some dignity about him, and is nowhere as pathetic as Billy Martin was in his later years -- but at the same time, he has to know that Joe Girardi may soon be on the hot seat himself, and he might be perceived as the Bob Lemon to Girardi's Martin.

I think this is almost certainly going through his mind. Or will, once he sobers up. If the Yanks finish the year near or below .500 and out of the playoffs, JoeG will probably be gone. Willie would have to be on the short list for that job, one would think. I don't think he needs to be their bench coach for taht to happen. And, seriously, Willie probably needs to go lay on a beach or something for a bit. Say what you will for stoicism, he has to be smarting.

the purge is done.

For now.

True -- the guy has some dignity about him, and is nowhere as pathetic as Billy Martin was in his later years -- but at the same time, he has to know that Joe Girardi may soon be on the hot seat himself, and he might be perceived as the Bob Lemon to Girardi's Martin.

You've got to think it is almost a certainty that Willie will manage the Yankees sometime in the next 10 years. I think Girardi is safe for at least this year and next, given how the team approached this year. But, if things don't go well this year, AND in 2009, you're looking at either Randolph or Mattingly in 2010.

Despite all of those stories before he landed the Mets job about how discrimination was keeping him from getting a chance, at the end of the day he may just have not been interviewing well.

Well, Randolph interviewed well enough to get offered the Cincinnati job, only to turn it down because, with his World Series share, he'd make more as a Yankees coach. I'd say that it was that attitude which did just as much as discrimination, if not more, to ensure that it was going to be a while before someone else offered him the manager's job - until the Mets gave in.

If the Yanks finish the year near or below .500 and out of the playoffs, JoeG will probably be gone. Willie would have to be on the short list for that job, one would think.

I dunno, this isn't 1985... it's hard to believe that the Yankees would fire a manager after one year.

As for Willie, the Yankees never showed any inclination to make him the "heir apparent" when he was there... I don't see what's changed.

Randolph didn't get along with Jackson back in the 70s or didn't, at the very least, like his antics? I don't remember that, but I think he was one of the more quiet personalities in the Bronx Zoo. I don't recall much of anything about him other than what he did on the field.

If I recall correctly, didn't Jerry Manuel battle the media in his last managing job?

I don't think so. He did have it out with Frank Thomas during spring training over lack of effort. But Manuel is not generally a combative sort.

They are claiming that Omar didn't do it in person.

If you don't like someone, you can blame them for anything when you don't know the facts. That's where I see Maddon sitting on this one.

Are the Mets one of the five most dysfunctional organizations in baseball? Before this Randolph situation I would have said Mariners, Giants, Blue Jays, White Sox

I don't think the Sox qualify as "dysfunctional".

He deserved his firing, but only an organization as utterly incompetent as the Mets could make Willy seem like a martyr. They could have fired him at a half dozen different points in the last six months and replaced him someone as useless as Jerry Manuel without anyone doing anything but cheering the move. Somehow, they managed to screw this up. It's unfathomable.

Omar Minaya: good at trading for John Maine and spending Fred Wilpon's money
Omar Minaya: bad at pretty much everything else

Are the Mets one of the five most dysfunctional organizations in baseball? Before this Randolph situation I would have said Mariners, Giants, Blue Jays, White Sox

Have you never heard of the Orioles?

Also, I'll agree with the above and say that the White Sox shouldn't be on that list - they've got a manager who likes to shoot off his mouth, but the players seem to like him, and the GM recognizes it for what it is, which is largely blowing off steam. Plus, currently, they're winning.

It's also interesting to see that the Blue Jays, who have been consistent in finishing about .500, are considered to be "dysfunctional".

How on Earth did Alomar keep his job?

It's also interesting to see that the Blue Jays, who have been consistent in finishing about .500, are considered to be "dysfunctional".

I think there's a good argument to be made that they're the most dysfunctional organization in baseball.

Awfully generous of Omar to give Randolph 8,000 frequent flyer miles as a going away present.

Meet the Mess, Greet the Mess...

Did anyone wake any of the players from their siesta to get a comment?

A Mets fan friend of mine made a good point to me. On the double-header Sunday, Willie didn't rest anyone, especially Wright, the second game and generally appeared to manage each game like it was a do or die situation, which for Willie I suppose it was. Minaya might have had the realization after that game that a win-or-else mentality is no way to run a baseball team, but he didn't have time to get the replacement coaches to the team from New Orleans in time for the trip to Anaheim, so they had to drag the thing out another day. This makes sense to me. The real mistake for the Mets was not firing him in Colorado a couple fo weeks ago. Once Willie felt pressure to win quickly or else, then it was time to end the charade.

Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran both seemed indifferent to the news when approached by reporters

That's interesting.

Minaya might have had the realization after that game that a win-or-else mentality is no way to run a baseball team,

In light of the constant Willie-death-watch and May meeting with the Wilpons on Willie's future, they clearly fired the wrong guy if it took Minaya until Sunday to realize that Randolph was going to manage the rest of the season that way.

Have you never heard of the Orioles?

If you reread my comment, you'll notice I did in fact mention the Orioles.

Correct, the White Sox and Blue Jays may not be the among the worst organizations based on their winning percentages, but the Mets are also reasonably successful. I was putting them all among the most dysfunctional organizations. Not just the success of the players on the field, but ownership, front office, coaches, etc.

In light of the constant Willie-death-watch and May meeting with the Wilpons on Willie's future, they clearly fired the wrong guy if it took Minaya until Sunday to realize that Randolph was going to manage the rest of the season that way.

I can't argue with this. I thought Minaya was a good hire for the Mets, and he has done some good work, but I just don't know about the guy anymore. Good gm's are decisive.

I have been with Sam philoshically about Willie for a long time. When Gotay and Milledge were purged before the season, I had seen enough. Omar should go as well. He is yet another cog in the succession of 90 day plans upon which this franchise has been based for 20 years.

The completely inept and classless handling of Willie's firing means to me that we have now gone full circle since the day Kazmir was exiled. Its funny how this organization, which places so much emphasis on avoiding the controversy that was characteristic of the best team in its history, should so often arouse controversy through its own ineptitude. Its the Wilpons who ultimately need to exit the scene here. Hopefully, once Fred has built his shrine (which btw pays homage to a franchise other than the one he owns) he will exit gracefully and take that recipient of a rapidly thinning gene pool with him.

How on Earth did Alomar keep his job?

As if all of us don't already know.

In light of the constant Willie-death-watch and May meeting with the Wilpons on Willie's future, they clearly fired the wrong guy if it took Minaya until Sunday to realize that Randolph was going to manage the rest of the season that way.

I dunno, man... it feels like there's a LOT of palace intrigue going on behind the scenes here, more than we think. I'm not convinced of the "Omar is a coward" meme, or whatever other simplistic storyline the NY media is running with right now.

The one thing I will say is that one way or another, Omar's head is the one squarely in the guillotine now.

He is a mediocre manager. I don't think he's awful, certainly not single-handedly sabotaging the season. But I've never even seen anyone argue that he was good at his job.

So he's like 75% of the managers in MLB.

Not only was this handled poorly by everyone, the ownership then basically threw Omar to the wolves in the release saying "ask Omar all questions about this". It's pretty obvious the way this was handled that Omar wasn't acting alone, if he had any hand in the decision at all.

Stay classy, Mets.

If you reread my comment, you'll notice I did in fact mention the Orioles.

Sorry about that. I grabbed the partial quote from another comment, rather than from your source. That was just careless on my part. I should have realized that the Orioles would have been mentioned somewhere.

Correct, the White Sox and Blue Jays may not be the among the worst organizations based on their winning percentages, but the Mets are also reasonably successful. I was putting them all among the most dysfunctional organizations. Not just the success of the players on the field, but ownership, front office, coaches, etc.

And yet, in both cases, the teams have had stable ownership, and consistency in both the GM and head coaching positions, as well as consistency in message from the GM and head coach. While the organizations may have also made mistakes in some player evaluations, the players that they've had have generally performed to the level of expectations. Also, in both cases, attendance has been good and/or improved under the current regime. It just seems hard to put them under the category of "dysfunctional" merely because the coach (in the case of the White Sox) and GM (in the case of the Jays) like to hear themselves speak. In both cases, I think the perceived problems have been greatly overstated.

The Mets have the problem of a GM who often seems at odds with his coach, a coach who has no problem blaming his players, an owner who doesn't seem to like either the coach or the GM, and a series of players who seem to underperform expectations. And that doesn't even include what appears to be a generally poor relationship between all aspects of the team and the local media.

My favorite part of this is that it was a clearly calculated decision to do it in the AM, after the East Coast newspapers could get the story on the back pages, on the West Coast (I mean, its not like anything happened last night that was the tipping point).

If you're a Mets fan, it is absolutely frightening that the "brains" of the organization collectively concluded that this was the best way to handle the situation. That they could not see the blowback from this is....I can't even think of the word

Some sportswriter on ESPN (from NY Daily News?) blamed most of the problems not on Minaya, but on his assistant (Tony Bernazard?). I'm not sure if that's the name, I'm actually just getting it from the discussion in this thread.

I'm not sure if any of this is new info, but I'm bored.
According to him:
-Many of the Latin American players hated Randolph, whereas Bernazard was their buddy and they used him to circumvrent Randolph in the chain of command.
-The chain of command was completely broken in the Mets clubhouse (Steve Phillips backed this up I think, saying it had always been too informal).
-Bernazard was responsible for media leaks and otherwise undermined Minaya and/or Randolph.
-Bernazard disliked Randolph because he was buddies with Manny Acta, and when in DC he would hang out with Acta in the Nats clubhouse.
-The owner also resented Randolph, because he had gotten his way in a contract negotiation.
-It was implied that there may be a rift between the owner/Bernazard anti-Randolph camp and Minaya, which may have been the reason things went down the way they did.

I don't think the Sox qualify as "dysfunctional".

Unless you consider Jay Mariotti an honorary part of the Sox organization, I'd agree.

-Many of the Latin American players hated Randolph, whereas Bernazard was their buddy and they used him to circumvrent Randolph in the chain of command.

Wasn't Bernazard one of the reasons that Delgado signed with the Marlins? I seem to remember that a story came out about how Bernazard tried to be all buddy-buddy with Delgado, while recruiting him with street-spanish. Delgado, who is a highly intelligent guy, didn't appreciate the technique, and the perceived lack of respect.

Its funny how this organization, which places so much emphasis on avoiding the controversy that was characteristic of the best team in its history, should so often arouse controversy through its own ineptitude. Its the Wilpons who ultimately need to exit the scene here. Hopefully, once Fred has built his shrine (which btw pays homage to a franchise other than the one he owns) he will exit gracefully and take that recipient of a rapidly thinning gene pool with him.

This is exactly right. The Wilpons make decisions based on headlines and what Mike and the Mad Dog are saying on the radio and that obviously isn't a good idea. One of Minaya's biggest strengths, in my opinion, was that he had the trust of the Wilpons. He may be a barely competent GM but at least he was the one making the baseball decisions instead of Fred or Jeff or the other son who lives in Japan. That no longer seems to be the case.

No idea, but they could have become close after that, or Delgado may not be on of the Latin American players, as they were not named (I assumed Reyes and Beltran, maybe Delgado).
Also this guy clearly had a problem with Bernazard, he didn't say anything negative about Minaya or Randolph, so I doubt that's the complete story here.

Bernazard was responsible for media leaks and otherwise undermined Minaya and/or Randolph.

If true, it seems odd Madden would be ripping the guy... unless Madden wasn't in the loop.

It all seems like the Wilpons were still angry at Willie for the SNY stuff that he had to apologize for a while back. The whole thing is very Sopranos-ish. Willie comes in to pay his respects to the bosses and apologize for his actions, the bosses take it under consideration but decide he needs to be gotten rid of. So they have one of their goons go out to California with him to do this "job" they have for him out there. And then the goon puts a bullet in his head and the heads of his closest pals who might have held a grudge against the bosses.

I was putting them all among the most dysfunctional organizations. Not just the success of the players on the field, but ownership, front office, coaches, etc.

It's hard to refute that without more to go on, but they haven't changed much of anything for quite some time, so they have stability. They've won more than they've lost the last few years, have a WS win, and for the most part seem to be on an even keel (Guillen's popping off is gamesmanship, not a sign of a loose cannon). I'm not seeing the dysfunction.

Many of the Latin American players hated Randolph, whereas Bernazard was their buddy and they used him to circumvrent Randolph in the chain of command.

FWIW I've heard that Delgado despises Bernazard...

-The chain of command was completely broken in the Mets clubhouse (Steve Phillips backed this up I think, saying it had always been too informal).

It's allegedly been broken along time...

-Bernazard disliked Randolph because he was buddies with Manny Acta, and when in DC he would hang out with Acta in the Nats clubhouse.

As a Met fan I'd much rather have seen Acta as manager than Randolph- and I'm not hispanic and Willie was one of my favorite players years ago (even though he played for the wrong team)...

-It was implied that there may be a rift between the owner/Bernazard anti-Randolph camp and Minaya, which may have been the reason things went down the way they did.

There was something going on...

I've been anti-Willie since almost day one- but I've got to say, the majority of what's gone wrong this year looks like Omar's fault more than Willie's- plus at this point the combination of Fred & Jeff's constant desire to win yesterday combined with Omar's well established track record of trading tomorrow for yesterday makes me very nervous- but then again there is no one who resembles Kazmir in the Met's farm for Omar to throw away...

The whole Randolph situation has been handled horribly. I feel sorry for Willie, even though he was the manager of the Phillies' rival. It was completely not his fault.

Why do we always say a sports manager/coach firing is not called for. We always act like a national tragedy has occurred, when we are talking about just a fired sports coach? How about a change of scenery? It wasn't working? Those are good enough reasons for me.

I seem to remember that a story came out about how Bernazard tried to be all buddy-buddy with Delgado, while recruiting him with street-spanish.

Thanks to 1ksv3l, I have that etched into my brain.

Look, the Bernazard thing is nothing new. It simply repeats the exact same pattern that existed when Duquette was the GM, and everybody with a half-assed title in that front office was back-stabbing him, leaking to the press, trying to influence Jeff Wilpon, and making it impossible to run a functional major league franchise. The problem is not Tony Bernazard and Omar Minaya, at least not directly. The problem is Jeff Wilpon (and to a lesser extent Fred Wilpon). He has set up a framework in which he cultivates the sense in these people that they can operate this way -- succeed by undermining their boss, by kissing up to him and telling him what he wants to hear. If Omar Minaya is fired, any sensible GM candidate should say to the Mets:

"Look. I will take this job under one condition. The only person in this entire operation that Jeff Wilpon talks to is me. The first time he says hello to any person with the word "assistant" in his title is the day I say goodbye. This will be written into my contract, and it will trigger a $5,000,000 bonus on my way out the door. He may exchange pleasantries with the manager if, and only if, it occurs in my presence."

Until that happens, this pattern will recur again and again, because Jeff Wilpon will make sure it does. He cannot help himself, and there are always ambitious snakes around anxious to take advantage of the situation. It doesn't reflect well on Tony Bernazard, obviously, but it isn't the first time and it won't be the last with this team.