Brooks Robinson: .265/268/1357. 14 Gold Gloves of course, and WAR has them at 69 Brooks, 55 Robin, Brooksie's peak is arguably better, he has about +100 runs more on defense, but they're closer than you think. The Position Adjustment is typically 4/season for Robinson, but Ventura averages only about 1/season-no idea why.

I like the way this is phrased:

Barry Larkin: Luis Aparicio played one fewer season and 481 games more than Larkin, but Larkin's occasional ouchiness is his only significant knock. There are 21 HOF shortstops, and I'd rather have Larkin than most of them.

Raines was better than everyone he voted for except Blyleven and Alomar. He ignores Trammmell yet votes for Larkin easily. Baines, Dawson, and Edgar.

He ignores Trammmell yet votes for Larkin easily.

Is that so absurd?

I'd take Ventura on my team any day, but he falls short of the HOF. Not a long career; many consistently very good seasons but -- I was surprised in looking at this just now -- never any really huge seasons.

Is that so absurd?

Kind of, yeah. I see Larkin and Trammell as fairly similar players. I'd put Larkin ahead, but the difference between the two is not so great that one should be ignored while the other sails easily through.

Is that so absurd?

I was going to say, there's plenty of room between Larkin and Trammell to draw your in/out line (which I'd draw well below both of them). But I checked AROM's WAR just to put a number to it, and, while AROM confirms my view that Larkin was better, his WAR also LOVES Alan Trammell - 67th-best position player in MLB history at 66.8 WAR (0.1 ahead of Eddie Murray, for example). Larkin's #58 @ 68.8, Tim Raines is #79 @ 64.9, and, going back to Trammell, AROM has HOF shortstops Ozzie Smith and Ernie Banks at #80 (64.7) and #81 (64.3), respectively.

Raines was better than everyone he voted for except Blyleven and Alomar.

Again, by AROM's WAR, he has Raines worse than Larkin (see above) and better than Alomar (63.6, #84 among position players). He also has both of them better than McGwire (Arvia doesn't vote for him; I'm just mentioning this since he's also on the ballot) - #87, 63.2 WAR. Blyleven's far and away the best player on this year's HOF ballot by WAR - 90.1 (13th-best pitcher in MLB history).

Not that I think raw career WAR should be the end-all/be-all way of ranking these guys. I just think it's an interesting starting point (and, coupled with Eugene's and Ray's comments here, suggests that I've probably been under-rating Alan Trammell).

Ventura is welcome to the Hall of Very Good.

Brooks Robinson: .265/268/1357. 14 Gold Gloves of course, and WAR has them at 69 Brooks, 55 Robin, Brooksie's peak is arguably better, he has about +100 runs more on defense, but they're closer than you think.

Well, they were both 3B and they both have "Robin" in their names, but Brooks has an extra 800 games and presumably better defense while their peaks are similar. I'm not sure it's all that close.

Is that so absurd?

He feared the Wrath of Anno!!

Kind of, yeah. I see Larkin and Trammell as fairly similar players. I'd put Larkin ahead, but the difference between the two is not so great that one should be ignored while the other sails easily through.

I'd take Larkin fairly easily over Trammell (and I think Trammy should have been a 1st-ballot HOF selection).

Well, they were both 3B and they both have "Robin" in their names, but Brooks has an extra 800 games and presumably better defense while their peaks are similar. I'm not sure it's all that close.

Only because it isn't, Ray. :-)

AROM has HOF shortstops Ozzie Smith and Ernie Banks at #80 (64.7) and #81 (64.3), respectively.

Banks' case is all peak of course ... well, plus hanging around for 500 HR.

Banks' case is all peak of course ... well, plus hanging around for 500 HR.

True, Walt. Those years at first base do not add much to his HOF resume at all, excepting for his counting stats. After 1961, Banks just wasn't close to being a great player anymore.

My father in law played on a traveling team in high school with Robin Ventura's older brother, and he loves their whole family.