Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, July 31, 2014

A’s Acquire Lester, Gomes For Cespedes

Cespedes for Mabry???

The Athletics have acquired Jon Lester from the Red Sox, according to Alex Speier of WEEI.com (Twitter links). In what will be a blockbuster deal, Jonny Gomes and Yoenis Cespedes will head to Boston. Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports first reported that Lester had been traded to an unknown club.

Passan tweets that Oakland is also sending a competitive balance draft pick to the Red Sox in the trade, and Boston is sending cash to Oakland. The A’s landed the second pick in Comp Round B in last week’s lottery.

The District Attorney Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:03 AM | 132 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, jon lester, jonny gomes, red sox, trades, transactions, yoenis cespedes

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:06 AM (#4761190)
didn't see that coming.
   2. billyshears Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:08 AM (#4761192)
Somebody here basically called this deal a few days ago. Of course, he then had the Red Sox trading Cespedes to the Marlins for Stanton, but still.
   3. Rusty Priske Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:09 AM (#4761194)
Wait... what?

Why would Oakland do that?
   4. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:11 AM (#4761200)
I am surprised by this outcome.
   5. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:11 AM (#4761202)
A’s Acquire Lester, Gomes For Cespedes

In what will be a blockbuster deal, Jonny Gomes and Yoenis Cespedes will head to Boston.

The Gomes for Gomes element is what makes this deal truly innovative.
   6. Sonic Youk Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:12 AM (#4761205)
So Gomes is Oaklands LF now? He has been borderline unplayable even in Fenway.

It'll be easy to root for the A's this year, they have more recognizable Red Sox than the Red Sox.
   7. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:12 AM (#4761207)
The Gomes for Gomes element is what makes this deal truly innovative.


That's why Beane writes books.
   8. asinwreck Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:13 AM (#4761209)
That is a A+++ major-league trade. What fun.
   9. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:15 AM (#4761213)
Yeah--are we sure this isn't just my OOTP simulation?

How do I know what's real?
   10. The District Attorney Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:16 AM (#4761215)
The Gomes for Gomes element is what makes this deal truly innovative.
Heh. They fixed that, but I will leave it now ;-)
   11. Dag Nabbit is a cornucopia of errors Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:19 AM (#4761220)
The Gomes for Gomes element is what makes this deal truly innovative.

Imagine the two of them, going at it.
   12. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:19 AM (#4761222)
Everyone, brace yourself for the inevitable Cespedes plus prospects for Giancarlo Stanton suggestions/wishcasts that you will read around the internet for the next 8 months.
   13. Danny Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4761223)
I'll miss Cespedes--he's such a fun player to watch. They're not always fully calibrated, but his arm and power tools can be awesome sights. He's also surprisingly fast at top speed.

Gomes will presumably platoon in LF with Moss or Vogt until Gentry is back. Then he can DH against LHP.

I love the creativity, but it's a bit scary with Crisp and Gentry both out. Huge hit to the OF defense.

I would hope they're looking into flipping some SP depth (Hammel, Milone, or Pomeranz) for an OF who's better than Billy Burns.
   14. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4761228)
How long are Crisp and Gentry out?
   15. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4761230)
Crossposted from the trade chatter thread:

Why do we suppose Boston would target a proven player (who's a free agent after 2015) over a package of prospects?

Also a good question. Well, if Oakland was their trading partner, they don't have much to offer in the way of prospects, having traded both Russell and McKinney in the Shark deal. McKinney was their #2 prospect but isn't even in the Cubs' top 10, so if he's better than everyone left, the A's probably didn't have much to build a package with.

Perhaps the Sox were convinced they wouldn't get what they considered a suitable prospect/package of prospects from anybody (having struck out in their attempts to get Gausman or somebody), so they might as well trade for a guy with pretty good present major league value and perhaps some trade value next year if 2015 ends up being another bust for the team.
   16. Pleasant Nate (Upgraded from 'Nate') Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4761231)
Agree with Danny -- this team seems an OF short now. And I like Vogt a decent amount. Also not sure you want all of Gentry/Gomes/Blanks/Moss starting against LHP. I think a bigger LH masher would be the priority, be it a full time or part time player.
   17. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:25 AM (#4761232)
So is Jesse Chavez bumped from the rotation? Lester starts Sunday?
   18. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:26 AM (#4761234)
I like this a lot for the Red Sox.
   19. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:26 AM (#4761235)
Also crossposted from the chatter thread:

Final full trade: Jon Lester, Jonny Gomes and $ to Oakland for Yoenis Cespedes and the second pick in the competitive balance Comp B round.


Does this mean Hammel's days in the Oakland rotation are over? If so, that was quick...

Anyway, not that Cespedes is a superstar, but he seems like kind of a lot to give up for 2 months of Jon Lester for a team that already featured starting pitching as a strength.

EDIT: That this trade can be both questioned and defended from both teams' perspectives is what makes this one so fun.
   20. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:28 AM (#4761237)
And, as others have noted, it certainly gives Oakland a monster rotation for the here and now; I'd have to agree they're the team to beat at this point.
   21. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:28 AM (#4761238)
Which outfielders are available who might help? I know Chicago is shopping Dayan Viciedo, but his skills are redundant with Gomes on the roster.

One of those weirdly-named guys from the Padres--Wilson Venorfial? A Seth Smith reunion?
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4761242)
Why do we suppose Boston would target a proven player (who's a free agent after 2015) over a package of prospects?


Because they want to win baseball games in 2015.
   23. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4761243)
Well, the omni trade chatter thread lasted all of six seconds.
   24. Sonic Youk Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4761244)
Cespedes-Bradley-Victorino has got to be the best throwing OF the Red Sox have had in recent memory. Cespedes and JBJ are actually tied for the league lead in assists right now.
   25. billyshears Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:32 AM (#4761245)
In the course of five minutes, I've come around on this deal for the Red Sox. Cespedes is a good player and the competitive balance pick is valuable. I'm a bit surprised nobody stepped up with one big time prospect for Lester, which I think would be preferable. If the alternative to this deal was a deal centered around a player like Josh Bell, I can see why the Red Sox chose this package.
   26. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:34 AM (#4761249)
@SonnyGray2

Well I am awake.
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4761252)
I HOPE YOU LIKE POOP WATER IN THE DUGOUT LESTER
   28. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4761255)
By the way, I was wrong yesterday - Cespedes *can* receive a qualifying offer next year.
   29. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:38 AM (#4761257)
So is Jesse Chavez bumped from the rotation? Lester starts Sunday?

Why would they dump Chavez (3.44 ERA) but keep Hammel (a punching bag for the past 4 starts)?
   30. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4761261)
The CB pick has me convinced. As many have noted, the bare minimum for this deal was something better than the QO pick they'd get if they kept him & he walked. Cespedes is a fascinating addition to this team.

But I can't help but feel that it's an unbelievable waste to play him in front of the Monster for home games.
   31. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4761262)
Why would they dump Chavez (3.44 ERA) but keep Hammel (a punching bag for the past 4 starts)?

Yeah, I've gotta think Hammel's the odd man out.
   32. DKDC Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:42 AM (#4761263)
Odd trade for the A's, this only makes sense if Beane has another trade up his sleeve.

I'm glad to see the Red Sox don't pick up a long-term piece here, although I guess they could always flip Cesepedes if they aren't ready to compete next year (as I suspect they won't be).
   33. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:48 AM (#4761265)
I think the Sox have a chance of being very good next year, and if that's true then Cespedes makes a lot of sense for them. I like him a lot, even if this is as good as he gets I think he's a solid bet to put up a 3-4 WAR season next year (fWAR doesn't like him as much but expects him to finish with 3.3 WAR, bWAR has him at 3.0 already this season and 3.9 in his rookie season). For 10.5m that's very good value.

Given that the Sox are probably still frontrunners to sign Lester this offseason I can't see how this is a bad deal for them, especially as I don't think this rental adds that much to his price tag. I like it, and I can't wait to be able to see Yoenis again.
   34. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:48 AM (#4761266)
This is a great and necessary trade for the A's. They desperately want above everything else to avoid a wild card showdown with King Felix, and Lester puts them in a much better position to hold the division. Not that they necessarily got the "better" of the trade, but Lester's only two years older than Cespedes, and at this point he's a much greater known quantity.

You also have to look at it from the POV that in many ways the A's can't "afford" another postseason implosion, and Lester's addition positions them even more as the best team in baseball, with a deep rotation that's well suited for both a 5-game and a 7-game series.
   35. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:49 AM (#4761267)
I'd have gone younger and more prospect-y.

I don't love the deal. But for two months of a pitcher who is useless to you as you're out of the race... I guess it's ok. Better to get something for him than go the Mets-Reyes route.

Still, I think Cespedes is overrated. As evidenced by ESPN's "But the Athletics paid a hefty price for Lester in Cespedes, the two-time reigning Home Run Derby champion"

That and fifty cents...

But sure there's more. Cespedes is a good player. But there's a decent chance that he's peaked already.

(I guess Beane is really trying now to make his #### work in the playoffs.)
   36. JE (Jason) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:49 AM (#4761268)
And, as others have noted, it certainly gives Oakland a monster rotation for the here and now; I'd have to agree they're the team to beat at this point.

Yup, I think even Justin Verlander would agree with this comment.
This is a great and necessary trade for the A's. They desperately want above everything else to avoid a wild card showdown with King Felix, and Lester puts them in a much better position to hold the division. Not that they necessarily got the "better" of the trade, but Lester's only two years older than Cespedes, and at this point he's a much greater known quantity.

This. Some here have a difficult time accepting that the Halos are only two back in the loss column.
   37. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:51 AM (#4761270)
Poor Cespedes! Instead of a third straight trip to the post-season, he has to play out the string with a bunch of kids in Boston!
   38. DKDC Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:52 AM (#4761271)
Report: Steve Clevenger or Nick Hundley could be on the move. Orioles blockbuster coming next!
   39. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:53 AM (#4761273)
Buster Olney says that the A's are still shopping for a 2nd baseman and I am sure an OF now. So they have Millone, Hamel and possibly Pomeranz as trade bait so what makes sense for them right now?
   40. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:55 AM (#4761276)
They would bump Chavez because he has a grand total of 2 MLB starts prior to this season.

MLBTR updated that some cash (less than $1mil) is going to Oakland.

On Saturday the A's are scheduled to give away 10,000 "La Potencia" T-Shirts with Cespedes on them.
   41. jobu Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4761278)
The A's made this trade for one reason: so Billy Beane's $*%+ works in the playoffs. Lester, Samardzija, Gray, Kazmir.

Cespedes is a tremendous talent and a lot of fun to watch, but he's also got some holes in his game.

It can be difficult to be an A's fan because the players don't stay there very long, but I'm happy for what this does for the team's chances this year.
   42. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4761280)
EDIT: Wrong thread
   43. Kurt Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4761281)
Why would they dump Chavez (3.44 ERA) but keep Hammel (a punching bag for the past 4 starts)?


IIRC Chavez has already hit his career high in IP. Plus, he hasn't exactly been Sandy Koufax himself over the last month.
   44. DKDC Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4761283)
Millone to Twins per Robothal.

Billy Beane is fun.
   45. villageidiom Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4761284)
Cespedes-Bradley-Victorino has got to be the best throwing OF the Red Sox have had in recent memory.
Never mind the Red Sox... What was the last MLB OF with a better trio of throwing arms?
   46. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:01 AM (#4761286)
I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't love this trade for the Red Sox.
   47. Chris Fluit Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:03 AM (#4761289)
Why would they dump Chavez (3.44 ERA) but keep Hammel (a punching bag for the past 4 starts)?


Petunia beat me to it in #40 but the concern is that Chavez is starting to tire after pitching a career high in innings.
   48. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:03 AM (#4761290)
Millone to Twins per Robothal.

Billy Beane is fun.

I bet it's for Sam Fuld, who can now slot in as their center fielder while Crisp and Gentry are injured.
   49. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4761291)
Milone for Fuld? Why did Milone go so cheaply?
   50. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:09 AM (#4761294)
Fuld? But we had him on the roster in April! We're giving up a cost-controlled league average pitcher for Fuld? That is poor.
   51. Jean Claude Vander Wal (Pokey1228) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:11 AM (#4761296)
Milone for Fuld? Why did Milone go so cheaply?


Yeah. If you're the Phillies, I don't see why you don't try to get something done for Milone. Of course, maybe they did and the problem is that everyone on their team is either old, terrible, expensive, or all three. CBP isn't exactly great for a fly-ball pitcher either. And Milone *is* on the wrong side of 30 for Amaro and Co.
   52. Danny Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:12 AM (#4761297)
Milone for Fuld is incredibly stupid.
   53. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:12 AM (#4761299)
Maybe mentioned above but Cespedes can't be given a qualifying offer at the end of his deal per his original agreement.
   54. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4761308)
Maybe mentioned above but Cespedes can't be given a qualifying offer at the end of his deal per his original agreement.
No, I was wrong about that. The CBA says you can give qualifying offers to XX(B) Free Agents.
   55. DKDC Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4761311)
Never mind the Red Sox... What was the last MLB OF with a better trio of throwing arms?


Gordon-Frenchy-Cain
Jones-Markakis-Cruz
   56. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:29 AM (#4761316)
Best OF arms ever?

Barfield, Steve Lake, Evans, Bo Jackson, Puig, Ankiel...
   57. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4761317)
I thought they'd get more for Milone, but there aren't many guys who can play CF available. Obviously all about this year for Oakland - they have so many guys under only one more year of control (Shark, Kazmir's deal was only for two years) and a bunch of guys who are becoming arb eligible that I think Beane was going to tear it all down after this season anyway - he'll want to get the most value they can out of a number of players, so trading away guys this offseason was probably already in the cards. So this year really is IT in Oakland the way I see it and these deals are the best way to get the Flag That Will Fly Forever.
   58. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:30 AM (#4761319)
I'm lost. How does Cespedes become FA eligible so soon? Is that something that changed in the latest CBA?
   59. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:32 AM (#4761322)
The A's are going for the world's first eight-man rotation.
   60. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4761323)
I agree with the above posts, we couldnt have gotten more for maybe Milone and Hamel?
   61. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4761324)
58. I'm lost. How does Cespedes become FA eligible so soon? Is that something that changed in the latest CBA?

Me too. But from Dave Cameron's Twitter:

So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible. (...)So the Red Sox will not be able to get a compensation pick for him after next year, if he leaves as a free agent.
   62. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4761325)
54- has nothing to do with CBA. I mean maybe Dave Cameron is wrong but he's saying that the original agreement between Oakland and Cespedes stipulated he could not be extended a QA at the end of his contract.
   63. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4761328)
Yup (on Cespedes' out after 4 years) - that was how the signing was reported at the time as well.
   64. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4761329)

I'm lost. How does Cespedes become FA eligible so soon? Is that something that changed in the latest CBA?


He got the same deal Japanese FA sometimes get - they can opt out before their service time allows them to be FA.
   65. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4761330)
On MLB Newtork this morning (and I can't remember who said it) they said that Cespedes' contract stipulates that if he is not under contract within two days after the end of the 2015 season he is to be released.
   66. Squash Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4761333)
I really like this deal for the A's. They need to actually go somewhere in the playoffs, and pitching is the best way to do that. Cespedes is good and fun to watch, but he's not truly an impact player. Barring disaster, the A's are going to make the playoffs. This is the best way to actually do something once they get there.

EDIT: To add, Gentry and Crisp are both coming back. They'll be okay for OF. They're going to make the playoffs with or without Cespedes (again, very most likely). But they gotta win when they get there.

Milone for Fuld is incredibly stupid.

When discussing Milone, the stat to always keep in mind is:

YEAR HOME ROAD
2012 2.74 4.83
2013 3.44 4.69
2014 2.74 4.40

It's still awesome to have a guy who is that good in your park, of course, but his value comes with a caveat. Going to Minnesota will be good for him though as it's also large.
   67. It's a shame about Athletic Supporter Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4761335)
Ugh, hate this trade. Cespedes is about a million times more fun to root for than Jon Lester. I've spent so much time learning to hate Lester as a member of Evil Empire II.
   68. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4761337)
So, so far, gotta say, the Twins have been the biggest winner of the trade deadline swaps. They've turned the corpse of Kendrys Morales and waiver wire dreck like Sam Fuld into two very young pitching prospects who've had success at the Major League level.
   69. Danny Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:46 AM (#4761341)
At first glance, Milone for Fuld is awful value for the A's. Milone is a slightly below average SP, cheap, and under team control for four more years. Fuld is waiver wire fodder.

On the other hand, the A's desperately need a CF in the short term with Gentry out and Crisp aching. Fuld's defense is great, and I guess it's possible his bat isn't awful.

Strangely, Fuld and Cespedes both have 2.3 fWAR this year. And Fuld is projected for more WAR/PA for the rest of the year by both Steamer and Zips.

I guess it helps for this year, but it still seems like poor value for a cheap SP.
   70. zonk Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:49 AM (#4761347)
Fuld? But we had him on the roster in April! We're giving up a cost-controlled league average pitcher for Fuld? That is poor.


This is part of MLB's new competa-balance-deadline-extravaganza --- Each contender has to cede its roster management for 30 minutes on deadline day to a GM plucked out of the grabbag of idiot GMs.... After the deadline, it will be revealed whether Ruben Amaro or Jack Z got to helm the A's for half an hour.
   71. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:51 AM (#4761352)
69 - any part of that because fuld plays as a def replacement / pinch runner sometimes?

Fuld maybe shouldn't have been waiver wire material in the first place - depending on how much you believe in his glove when in center. Still...
   72. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4761355)
#69--Fuld took very well to the Twins' new hitting approach (which is, essentially, only swing the bat when it's absolutely necessary for your health--they rank 1st in the league in % of pitches taken). His walk rate, naturally, jumped way up, leading to his .370 OBP for them this year.

He'll be missed--he had become something of a fan favorite. (It helps to be really, really, really good-looking.)
   73. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:57 AM (#4761360)
I agree with 71 - both Tampa and Oakland had pretty stacked OFs when he played in those places previously. I do think the A's should have been able to get more for Milone, but probably couldn't get a better fit for this team this year, which is obviously all Beane cares about right now.
   74. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:58 AM (#4761362)
I've gotta think the Cubs could have beaten that offer with Bonifacio and Valbuena (upgrade on Sogard?). I feel like this was a missed opportunity for Chicago to get another interesting young pitcher.
   75. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4761365)
Milone would get killed in Wrigley.
   76. jingoist Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4761366)
"Best OF arms ever.....Barfield, Clemente, Kaline and maybe Parker
   77. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4761369)
I have to question trading for Samardzija and Hammel in the first place if you're gonna go out five minutes later and get another, better starter. What, Lester-Gray-Kazmir-Chavez-Milone-Pomeranz-Straily wouldn't have cut it? Had to give up one of the best prospects in baseball so there'd be enough pitching depth to give away cromulent starters for stopgap outfield help?
   78. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:09 PM (#4761372)
I agree there are real concerns with Milone but that hypothetical deal is trading two guys who are basically trade bait anyhow and it's tough to see Chicago doing better in return.

Now Chicago has expressed interest in keeping Valbuena but I don't really believe that and his trade value is probably at its peak right now. Spending him and Bonifacio (pure rental for Chicago) on young pitching is ideal. Heck, with Bonifacio's ability to play CF and 2B he might have given the A's better value than Fuld all by himself.
   79. zonk Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:10 PM (#4761373)
I don't know... with Doubront joining Arrieta and Wood -- plus Hendricks looking he's gonna stick from here on out AND still wanting to get some starts for Straily ... plus Wada.... plus you might still want to see some more turns by Beeler and maybe give Eric Jokisch a few starts... I don't think Milone is what I'd really want for the Don't You Dare Call Me F Troop.

For ValBon - I'd be looking more younger lottery ticket. You can never have too much pitching, of course, and a lottery ticket is certainly less valuable than a youngish pitcher who's already had success in the majors -- but I think we've got enough to look at for the last 2 months of the season.

   80. Bunny Vincennes Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:11 PM (#4761374)
Barfield and Parker, maybe Winfield were the best I've seen. Barfield for sure.
   81. villageidiom Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4761375)
I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't love this trade for the Red Sox.
I'm somewhat indifferent to it, but mostly because the trade removes Jon Lester from Boston and for rooting interest I'd preferred it not to have happened.

From Cherington's stated goal of trading to improve the team in 2015, I think this works very well. And it's more than just "We replaced 2 players who won't be here in 2015 with 1 player who will." Cespedes is a good player, even if he has peaked. And the 2015 team has a lot of options for pitching, but needs upgrades on offense.

Now, if we start from a premise that isn't focused on 2015, that's where a package of prospects would have been a nice return. I'm not sure what package of prospects would have been available, so it's hard to say whether it would have been better than Cespedes.

(FWIW, I do like the premise of trying to improve for 2015 in these deals. But I recognize that's not the only, nor necessarily the best, lens through which to view trades.)

Best OF arms ever?
...wasn't the question. Best trio of OF arms on one team.

I mean maybe Dave Cameron is wrong but he's saying that the original agreement between Oakland and Cespedes stipulated he could not be extended a QA at the end of his contract.
In 2012 when this contract was signed, the QO system had yet to be used. It wasn't until the 2013-14 offseason, the second year of the QO system, where we found there can be significant impacts to a player's value in free agency if he gets a QO. I highly doubt Cespedes had it written into his contract back then that he couldn't get a QO, because at that time what would he have known he'd gain by doing so?

It says he can opt to become a free agent after the 2015 season. If he opts to become a free agent, and he has been with a team for the full 2015 season, that team can make a QO.

I mean, if the other option is to assume Cameron is correct...
   82. DA Baracus Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:12 PM (#4761376)
I thought they'd get more for Milone, but there aren't many guys who can play CF available.


BJ Upton can be had for anything.
   83. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4761379)
For ValBon - I'd be looking more younger lottery ticket. You can never have too much pitching, of course, and a lottery ticket is certainly less valuable than a youngish pitcher who's already had success in the majors -- but I think we've got enough to look at for the last 2 months of the season.

But Milone can spend the rest of the year in Iowa (no idea if he has any options left after 2014). I think that helps avoid the logjam of young mediocrity on Chicago's hands.
   84. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4761380)
Kazmir hasn't pitched more than 158 innings since 2007, and is already around 125 this year and Chavez has already basically doubled his career high. I would have felt very uncomfortable going into the post-season with that much risk in the rotation as listed above.

Edited to say in response to #77.

Another edit to say that if Hammel had pitched even half way decent, I doubt Lester is an A today. But after that firrst inning yesterday, you have to know several chairs were thrown...
   85. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4761381)
I'm somewhat indifferent to it, but mostly because the trade removes Jon Lester from Boston and for rooting interest I'd preferred it not to have happened.

From Cherington's stated goal of trading to improve the team in 2015, I think this works very well. And it's more than just "We replaced 2 players who won't be here in 2015 with 1 player who will." Cespedes is a good player, even if he has peaked. And the 2015 team has a lot of options for pitching, but needs upgrades on offense.

Now, if we start from a premise that isn't focused on 2015, that's where a package of prospects would have been a nice return. I'm not sure what package of prospects would have been available, so it's hard to say whether it would have been better than Cespedes.

(FWIW, I do like the premise of trying to improve for 2015 in these deals. But I recognize that's not the only, nor necessarily the best, lens through which to view trades.)


Basically agree. I'd have liked to see them go for prospect(s). But if it's a choice between keeping Lester for no good reason or getting something for him, I like this route a lot better.

Is it just me or do others also think there's a decent chance the Sox end up re-signing Lester? There's no bad blood, it doesn't seem like Beane's typical play is to give out big contracts, Lester seems to like playing for Boston and living there, and if I'm correct the Sox only have something like $80M in commitments next year.
   86. Swedish Chef Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:21 PM (#4761383)
I highly doubt Cespedes had it written into his contract back then that he couldn't get a QO, because at that time what would he have known he'd gain by doing so?

It says he can opt to become a free agent after the 2015 season. If he opts to become a free agent, and he has been with a team for the full 2015 season, that team can make a QO.

I mean, if the other option is to assume Cameron is correct...


But he's not a free agent due to service time, so what the contract must say is that the team must non-tender him at the end of the contract. Otherwise he would be up for arbitration, not a QO.
   87. Sonic Youk Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:22 PM (#4761385)
I think it's a fine trade in a vacuum, but it's entirely different than what I assumed their intentions were. I guess I need to know what they are doing with Lackey and the offseason.
   88. MikeTorrez Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4761387)
Best OF arms ever?

Barfield, Steve Lake, Evans, Bo Jackson, Puig, Ankiel...


Ellis Valentine.
   89. theboyqueen Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:26 PM (#4761391)
I can't even think rationally about this trade. Cespedes is my favorite player since Hudson and Giambi were around.

The A's better win the World Series this year.
   90. Spahn Insane Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:28 PM (#4761393)
(It helps to be really, really, really good-looking.)

Yes, but there's more to life than that, I've discovered.
   91. The kids disappeared, now Der-K has too much candy Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4761405)
85/Ray - I think there's a real good chance.
   92. SteveM. Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:40 PM (#4761409)
Lackey to the Cardinals per Rotoworld.
   93. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4761421)
Kazmir hasn't pitched more than 158 innings since 2007, and is already around 125 this year and Chavez has already basically doubled his career high. I would have felt very uncomfortable going into the post-season with that much risk in the rotation as listed above.

There's no evidence any of that means anything, contrary to the voices in Tom Verducci's head.
   94. J. Sosa Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:48 PM (#4761424)
I would have to disagree. I don't think Lester will be coming back for the same reasons it rarely happens with other players. It won't happen unless the Red Sox change policy regarding long term contracts and players over thirty. Lester wasn't interested in taking a big home town discount, and nor should he. Somebody will give him something close to the deal he wants, and if they do, he isn't going to come running back to Boston for a four year deal.

As a Red Sox fan, I don't like the trade because of the thinking that caused it. I was ok with letting Ellsbury walk, I understood it, but at some point a club like the Red Sox need to stop acting like they are contending for the lowest dollar per win championship. The team won last year, which is great, I am not going to complain, but it is a concern that a team with the resources the club has trotted out this year's outfield and is on course to have another bad season. We will see.

In the interests of full disclosure, Carl Crawford is probably my least favorite Red Sox player of all time (non wife beating etc. division). I get why the club hates long term contracts. I'm just a little concerned at exactly what the plan is letting a guy like Lester walk after seeing what the club's plan involved after letting Ellsbury walk. We will see. Maybe there is a future trade to be made, and maybe Lester does come back.

edit to add: Lackey for Craig and Kelly? My snap reaction to that one is that it is pretty great for the Red Sox. Is that fair or just fanboy?
   95. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: July 31, 2014 at 12:50 PM (#4761430)
I'm not even sure Cespedes benefits much from hitting in Boston - people remember the HR Derby moonshots, but a lot of his homers seem to be screaming liners that barely clear the LF wall (and leave the park faster than you can turn your head). In Fenway, that's a BAM!-single.
Also, I hadn't realized this, but Cespedes has an OPS 100 points higher at O.Co than on the road (in more than a season's worth of home and road PAs).
   96. Roger McDowell spit on me! Posted: July 31, 2014 at 01:00 PM (#4761455)
There's no evidence any of that means anything, contrary to the voices in Tom Verducci's head.


OK, and to be honest I'm less concerned about Kazmir. But Chavez looked very toasty giving up those HRs in Houston three days ago, and is another guy with huge home/road splits. We'd seen Straily's act before too - hell, he couldn't last more than three weeks on the roster after opening day.

like I said earlier or in the Omni Chatter thread, given the commitments and arb-eligible guys, there might not ever have been a plan to try to keep the team together after this season. And there's almost no way the pitchers you mentioned get a World Series ring for the A's this year.
   97. Bourbon Samurai Posted: July 31, 2014 at 01:06 PM (#4761464)
Whoa. That's a crazy trade.
   98. PreservedFish Posted: July 31, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4761465)
I love that deal for the Red Sox.
   99. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 31, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4761466)
I can't even think rationally about this trade. Cespedes is my favorite player since Hudson and Giambi were around.

The A's better win the World Series this year.


Well, they're quite a bit better positioned to do that than they were a month or so ago, and better positioned now than they were yesterday. I get the attachment to a favorite player, but objectively this was a very good percentage move by Beane.
   100. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4761471)
Flip
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Francis
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(9271 - 5:53am, Dec 22)
Last: Win Big Stein's Money

NewsblogOT: Politics - December 2014: Baseball & Politics Collide in New Thriller
(5216 - 4:56am, Dec 22)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogRuben Amaro Jr. says it would be best if Phillies move on from Ryan Howard
(47 - 3:26am, Dec 22)
Last:     Hey Gurl

NewsblogA Salute to Sy Berger, From a Card-Carrying Fan - NYTimes.com
(5 - 3:26am, Dec 22)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogThe 2015 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!
(179 - 3:25am, Dec 22)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogThe right — and wrong — way for Mets to get Tulowitzki | New York Post
(14 - 1:01am, Dec 22)
Last: PreservedFish

Hall of Merit2015 Hall of Merit Ballot
(96 - 11:51pm, Dec 21)
Last: Rob_Wood

NewsblogDetermining Hall vote is no easy task | New York Post
(29 - 11:40pm, Dec 21)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogJUNICHI TAZAWA & CULTURE OF DENIAL
(4 - 11:37pm, Dec 21)
Last: Steve Parris, Je t'aime

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - December 2014
(776 - 11:33pm, Dec 21)
Last: The District Attorney

NewsblogMarty Noble's HOF Ballot
(45 - 11:32pm, Dec 21)
Last: bobm

NewsblogThe Yankees’ plan in case A-Rod can’t play at all
(25 - 10:12pm, Dec 21)
Last: Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogOT: Soccer December 2014
(344 - 9:50pm, Dec 21)
Last: Mefisto

Hall of MeritHerman Long
(11 - 9:22pm, Dec 21)
Last: Joey Numbaz (Scruff)

NewsblogThe Jeff Jacobs HOF Ballot: Keep The Voting Serious And Fair
(55 - 9:14pm, Dec 21)
Last: Ron J

Page rendered in 0.6435 seconds
48 querie(s) executed