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Wednesday, March 07, 2012

A’s Make Statement: Let Us Move To San Jose

Over the weekend, Bill Madden of the New York Daily News suggested that MLB would uphold the Giants’ territorial rights in San Jose and not let the Athletics move there.

This report was denied by the commissioner’s office, but it apparently made the A’s so upset they issued a statement on the matter Wednesday. It includes the following:

Of the four two-team markets in MLB, only the Giants and A’s do not share the exact same geographic boundaries. MLB-recorded minutes clearly indicate that the Giants were granted Santa Clara, subject to relocating to the city of Santa Clara. The granting of Santa Clara to the Giants was by agreement with the A’s late owner Walter Haas, who approved the request without compensation. The Giants were unable to obtain a vote to move and the return of Santa Clara to its original status was not formally accomplished.

The Giants, clearly, did not relocate to Santa Clara, and the A’s statement further mentions that the team wants to move farther away from the Giants’ current location:

We are not seeking a move that seeks to alter or in any manner disturb MLB territorial rights. We simply seek an approval to create a new venue that our organization and MLB fully recognizes is needed to eliminate our dependence on revenue sharing, to offer our fans and players a modern ballpark, to move over 35 miles further away from the Giants’ great venue and to establish an exciting competition between the Giants and A’s.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 03:35 PM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: March 07, 2012 at 03:56 PM (#4076113)
The A's and Giants should fight a cage match. The winner gets SF, loser gets Fresno.
   2. Lassus Posted: March 07, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4076125)
...and all the owners and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."
   3. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:19 PM (#4076219)
I think the A's are 100% right on this one.
   4. Downtown Bookie Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4076227)
I think the Giants should be forced to move back to Manhattan.

DB
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4076241)
I think the Giants should be forced to move back to Manhattan.

DB


Only if they rebuild the Polo Grounds in the exact location and the exact dimensions.

How fricking cool would it be to see baseball with a 258' RF line that went went straight out to a 440' RCF.
   6. John Northey Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4076253)
Always loved using the Polo Grounds in computer baseball games. Much more fun than parks today. Super deep CF, super short down the lines. Major challenge for all players to figure out how to use it to their advantage. Sigh.

As to the A's - that is what you get for having a nice guy owner I guess, you get screwed.
   7. Tom (and his broom) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4076268)
Your next door neighbor has a garage sale, you see a painting you like, and being a good neighbor he gives it you.

You leave it in a closet.

Years later a new neighbor moves in, he decides he wants that painting and throws a fit because you won't give it to him the way the previous neighbor gave it to you.

The circumstances around the giants getting the rights to the southbay market are completely irrelevant now, the fact is that by the MLB constitution they have exclusive rights there. That has value and it would be a violation of their responsibilities to their shareholders to give them away. IT would cost them tens of millions of dollars to settle with their shareholders if they simply gave the rights away.

The long and short of this mess is that there is no way the A's move without the blessing of the Giants, MLB does not want this to go to a vote with the two teams lobbying the other owners to take sides. Either money changes hands or some other agreement is reached, there are a lot of pieces here. Things like regional cable contracts, media contracts, rights to put a minor league team in oakland, limitations on advertising, options for what happens if one or the other leaves the are.. etc. I could see the Giants giving them the southbay rights in return for the A's signing an agreement to have their games aired on the Giants owned regional network, and the SJ Giants becoming the Oakland Giants, and Fresno and Sacramento swapping Affiliations.


   8. Squash Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4076272)
Your next door neighbor has a garage sale, you see a painting you like, and being a good neighbor he gives it you.

You leave it in a closet.

Years later a new neighbor moves in, he decides he wants that painting and throws a fit because you won't give it to him the way the previous neighbor gave it to you.


I'll take tortured analogies for $600, Alex.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4076285)
Your next door neighbor has a garage sale, you see a painting you like, and being a good neighbor he gives it you.

You leave it in a closet.

Years later a new neighbor moves in, he decides he wants that painting and throws a fit because you won't give it to him the way the previous neighbor gave it to you.


A tree hits your roof in a rain storm and water is pouring in. Your neighbor gives you a tarp, but before you can put it up, it stops raining. He never bothers to ask for it back.

Next year, a tree hits his roof, and you refuse to give him the tarp. He beats the #### out of you for being a world class #######, and the jury acquits.
   10. Tom (and his broom) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4076294)
Yeah snapper, except that the current A's ownership has absolutely nothing to do with and no relationship with the alleged generosity of the Haas family.

A tree hits your roof in a rain storm and water is pouring in. Your neighbor gives you a tarp, but before you can put it up, it stops raining. He never bothers to ask for it back.

he sells his house to a new guy, a total ####### who lets the place run down.


Next year, a tree hits his roof, and you refuse to give him the tarp. He whines a lot about it. The end


   11. The Piehole of David Wells Posted: March 07, 2012 at 06:32 PM (#4076327)
A tree hits your roof in a rain storm and water is pouring in. Your neighbor gives you a tarp, but before you can put it up, it stops raining. He never bothers to ask for it back.

Next year, a tree hits his roof, and you refuse to give him the tarp. He beats the #### out of you for being a world class #######, and the jury acquits.


Then you write a story about the injustice of the beating and the jury verdict, it's published by a major publisher and the rights are optioned by a major studio. It turns into one of the highest grossing movies of the year and wins an Oscar for best screenplay.

With your new found millions, you sell your house for $50 to a crack whore and move to an estate in Malibu overlooking the Pacific. Where, it turns out, your neighbor is having a garage sale, and you see a painting you really like....
   12. Danny Posted: March 07, 2012 at 06:34 PM (#4076329)
I'm glad to see Tom has moved on from his "the A's never had any rights to San Jose, which they acknowledged in the 1990 agreement" line to "whatever happened then is irrelevant" (with a bonus undisplayed painting analogy).

But, of course, the Haas gesture is as relevant as the other owners want it to be. I'd love to see the meeting minutes referred to in the press release.
   13. Squash Posted: March 07, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4076338)
With your new found millions, you sell your house for $50 to a crack whore and move to an estate in Malibu overlooking the Pacific. Where, it turns out, your neighbor is having a garage sale, and you see a painting you really like....

We call this the circle of life.
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4076342)
Why did MLB block a move of the Giants to Santa Clara?
   15. Nasty Nate Posted: March 07, 2012 at 06:55 PM (#4076348)
A tree hits your roof in a rain storm and water is pouring in. Your neighbor gives you a tarp, but before you can put it up, it stops raining. He never bothers to ask for it back.

he sells his house to a new guy, a total ####### who lets the place run down.


Next year, a tree hits his roof, and you refuse to give him the tarp. He whines a lot about it. The end


The neighbor has to have been a real jerk for me to withhold a rain tarp if a tree hits his roof and the water is pouring into his crappy house....
   16. Danny Posted: March 07, 2012 at 07:00 PM (#4076351)
Why did MLB block a move of the Giants to Santa Clara?

They didn't; the referendum for public financing of the stadium failed.
   17. DL from MN Posted: March 07, 2012 at 07:01 PM (#4076353)
We call this the circle of life.


I thought it was the new "If you Give a Mouse a Cookie" book
   18. Bhaakon Posted: March 07, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4076360)
Yeah snapper, except that the current A's ownership has absolutely nothing to do with and no relationship with the alleged generosity of the Haas family.


Nor does the current Giants ownership.


It's more like There are two neighboring farms. One farmer's well dries up, and the best place to dig a new one is over the property line. The second farmer, being perhaps too good a neighbor, gives the first farmer the land around the proposed well, but, while digging, they find out that the water table is deeper than expected and the effort is abandoned. Since the land has little value, no one bothers to revert the ownership.

Twenty-five or so years later, both farms have changed hands. The new owners of the first farm have turned that gifted land into a very profitable orchard. The new owner of farm two heard about the foolish generosity of his predecessor, and bought farm two, which has fallen on hard times, cheaply in the hopes of contesting the orchard's ownership. Farmer one, of course, says "screw you. I paid for that land, and I've gone to a lot of effort to turn it into a productive part of my farm. You, however, got your farm cheaply precisely because that land is mine."

   19. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 07, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4076403)
Of course the real question surrounding "Let us move to San Jose" is..

Do they know the way? Yeah, it's bad.

It's more like There are two neighboring farms

And there's this one run by pigs...oh wait, wrong metaphor. OK, I'll stop now.
   20. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 07, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4076418)
except that the current A's ownership has absolutely nothing to do with and no relationship with the alleged generosity of the Haas family.

The current owners are the successors of the prior owners. That's not exactly trivial.
   21. zachtoma Posted: March 07, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4076432)
The A's and Giants should fight a cage match. The winner gets SF, loser gets Fresno.


No one deserves Fresno, that's just cruel.
   22. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 07, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4076447)
It's more like There are two neighboring farms


OK, imagine a large wooden badger...
   23. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 09:37 PM (#4076450)
All of these analogies have been ludicrous, because none of them take into account the fact that they all take place within the context of a monopoly. "Rights", when you are a subsidiary frachise of a monopoly, are not the same.
   24. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 07, 2012 at 09:43 PM (#4076451)
All of these analogies have been ludicrous, because none of them take into account the fact that they all take place within the context of a monopoly. "Rights", when you are a subsidiary frachise of a monopoly, are not the same.


So, you're saying the badger wouldn't work?
   25. depletion Posted: March 07, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4076453)
No one deserves Fresno, that's just cruel.

So will you take Bakersfield? Stockton?
   26. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: March 07, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4076457)
I've seen the signs for Bakersfield, but I am not convinced it actually exists.
   27. tshipman Posted: March 07, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4076459)
I've seen the signs for Bakersfield, but I am not convinced it actually exists.


When a mommy Methhead and a Daddy methhead love each other very much, sometimes they move to Bakersfield.
   28. Lassus Posted: March 07, 2012 at 10:12 PM (#4076462)
Fresno smells worse than anywhere I've ever been, and it's still probably preferable to Bakersfield.
   29. zachtoma Posted: March 07, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4076472)

So will you take Bakersfield? Stockton?


Sacramento? I never thought that was such a terrible option for the A's.
   30. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4076495)
"Let us move to San Jose" sounds so ... biblical. I'm reminded of "let us build us a city."
   31. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: March 07, 2012 at 11:37 PM (#4076526)
It's more like There are two neighboring farms

and one farmer diverts the water from his farm onto the other farm, thereby flooding the land... No, wait, that doesn't work either.
   32. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 07, 2012 at 11:47 PM (#4076532)
I miss that guy.
Hey - stop lurking, get back to posting!
   33. McCoy Posted: March 07, 2012 at 11:48 PM (#4076533)
Okay, so there are two guys and each owns a McDonalds. One of the guys is struggling because his neighborhood has changed and he wants to move his place. The only problem is that the other guy owns the territory rights to where he wants to go. McDonalds Corp nudges guy two to relinquish the area for the first guy. The first guy then doesn't make the move to the new territory. He instead sells his McDonalds to a new guy and that guy builds within the original territory. The second guy many years later sells his McDonalds to a new guy as well who discovers that his neighborhood is struggling. so he wishes to move to the new territory that now belongs to the first new guy. Once again McDonalds Corp comes in and tells the first new guy to relinquish the territory but this time the guy says "stick it".
   34. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: March 07, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4076540)
Oakland should just say "to hell with it" and move to Memphis. Yeah, the city still sucks but the food is way better.
   35. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: March 07, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4076541)
   36. McCoy Posted: March 07, 2012 at 11:58 PM (#4076542)
The A's should just build their stadium on the river or on an Indian reservation.
   37. Tripon Posted: March 08, 2012 at 12:12 AM (#4076544)
34. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: March 07, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4076540)
Oakland should just say "to hell with it" and move to Memphis. Yeah, the city still sucks but the food is way better.


What? Really? Oakland may not be a food mecca, but its right next to San Francisco (Which is considered a good food city), and it has a long history of ethic communities that brought their culinary traditions with them.
   38. Lassus Posted: March 08, 2012 at 12:38 AM (#4076553)
What did happen to Harveys, anyhow?
   39. DEFCON: jive Posted: March 08, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4076560)
My dad and I took a trip to SF/Oakland to see some games a few years ago, and had one of the most memorable meals of my life. We had some time to kill, stopped at a Korean restaurant in a strip mall, and were blown away. 20 or so little dishes of strange pickles, sweet dried fish, mayonnaisey potato salad, and seaweeds, followed by some killer grilled meats and tofu stews. Watching Giants and A's fans brawl at the Coliseum during a packed interleague game was the capper.

That said, my brother-in-law, a Bay area native, swears by the Memphis music and food scene.
   40. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 08, 2012 at 01:08 AM (#4076564)
What did happen to Harveys, anyhow?

Dam burst?
   41. my2cents Posted: March 08, 2012 at 05:34 AM (#4076610)
I'd like to see Baseball prosper in the Bay Area. Giving back the rights to San Jose will only increase the number of fans of both teams and help all of Baseball. Frustrating fans of the game isn't helping the situation. The Giant's owners have lost their perspective. Baseball as an organization is incompetent. This should have been resolved a long time ago.
   42. Tom (and his broom) Posted: March 08, 2012 at 07:34 AM (#4076625)
Giving back the rights to San Jose
Excuse me, you seem to be under the wrongful impression that at some time the A's had some kind of formal rights to the San Jose area. There was no formal division of rights to the various bay area counties until 1990, the giving of the rights was fundamentally an acknowledgement of the relative fan bases in writing...

And I like your logic, by that logic the Yankees should just give AROD to the A's because it would increase the fans of both teams, it doesn't matter what the value of what you want the other team to give you is.
   43. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: March 08, 2012 at 07:49 AM (#4076627)
I think the Yankees would probably give A-Rod to the A's if Oakland would take him.
   44. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: March 08, 2012 at 09:08 AM (#4076635)
No one deserves Fresno, that's just cruel.

"There's a new ballclub in town. Now who wants to kill 'em?"
"ME! ME! I DO! PICK ME!"
"Why don't we give 'em...to FRESNO...?"
"Fresno?! Sh!t, that's too cruel!"
   45. Danny Posted: March 08, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4076670)
Excuse me, you seem to be under the wrongful impression that at some time the A's had some kind of formal rights to the San Jose area.

WHAT KIND OF GARAGE SALE IS THIS??
   46. Dave Spiwak Posted: March 08, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4076799)
Too many analogies in this thread. Which reminds me of a story my grandpa used to tell...
   47. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 08, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4076829)
Wait, its gotta be your butcher.
   48. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 08, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4077266)
A's, Giants issue territorial-rights statements

Giants retort:

The Giants' argument is that A's owners John Fisher - who once was part of the Giants' current ownership - and Lew Wolff agreed to the rights when purchasing the team "for just $172 million in 2005."

The Giants' statement added: "Indeed, the A's fail to mention that MLB's 1990 territorial rights designation has been explicitly re-affirmed by Major League Baseball on four separate occasions."

The Giants said Santa Clara County represents 43 percent of their territory, which they said they heavily targeted after purchasing the team in 1992.


Odd that Bud is allowing the teams to air this out so publicly.

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