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Wednesday, September 13, 2017

A’s want to build new ballpark next to Laney College in Oakland

The Oakland A’s have settled on land near Laney College as their preferred spot for a 35,000-seat, privately financed ballpark to replace the Coliseum, team officials said Tuesday.
“Finally, we’ve got our site,” team President Dave Kaval said of the 13-acre location near downtown, which the A’s selected after also considering the Oakland Coliseum site and land on the waterfront northwest of Jack London Square. “It’s really the strongest location when it comes to private financing, and that’s really an important component to be successful.”
The A’s hope to play their first game at their $500 million-plus ballpark in 2023. But there’s a lot that has to happen first — starting with cutting a deal with the Peralta Community College District, which owns the site and has its headquarters there.

IMO this is a lousy idea.  The site is a mile from BART, has very little parking and the lawsuits (this is the Bay Area, complaint is our National Pastime) will add years to the project.  The Coliseum site, by contrast, has ample parking and is connected to BART station.  The site is already a sports complex which eliminates or reduces the lawsuit problem.  Plus, the Peralta site would be the end of tailgating, which is a dying art.

Traderdave Posted: September 13, 2017 at 12:03 PM | 85 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: oakland a's, oakland coliseum

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   1. You're a clown, RMc! I'm tired of it! Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:17 AM (#5531339)
this is America, complaint is our National Pastime

Fixed.
   2. Lassus Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:28 AM (#5531347)
Been awhile since I've been to A's stadium, where I would go to watch AL games instead of traveling for an hour from the Castro in order to freeze to death at Candlestick.

What were the compelling reasons not to simply make improvements/upgrades to the Stadium that seems in the perfect spot right next to BART and the basketball arena?
   3. eddieot Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:49 AM (#5531359)
A privately financed stadium? How could this possibly fly with Manfred and his poor corporate-welfared plump MLB owners?
   4. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:53 AM (#5531364)
It might not be ideal, but I think this is ####### terrific. Forget tailgaiting, this is a short walk from Downtown Oakland.
   5. Russ Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:23 AM (#5531390)
A privately financed stadium? How could this possibly fly with Manfred and his poor corporate-welfared plump MLB owners?


I think privately financed means that they're not going to tell the public how it's being paid for using public funds.
   6. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:23 AM (#5531391)
Any location in Oakland would create traffic congestion but this location really takes that to the Nth degree. It's right where 880 South loses a lane which creates a snarl with port traffic starting at 2PM most days. The Northbound side is splitting off to 24 which usually starts to snarl by 3-4PM. Throw in a few thousand more cars into the 6-6:30 commute and you have a traffic disaster even by East Bay standards, which says a lot. There's very little space for parking in the area and the BART service is much less helpful than at the Coliseum.

And no, I cannot & will not forget tailgating. There are fewer & fewer places to do it these days & it is one of life's great & most underrated pleasures. It is both easy & great fun at the Coliseum. We've had a few Primate tailgates there over the years.
   7. Baldrick Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5531394)
IMO this is a lousy idea. The site is a mile from BART, has very little parking and the lawsuits (this is the Bay Area, complaint is our National Pastime) will add years to the project. The Coliseum site, by contrast, has ample parking and is connected to BART station. The site is already a sports complex which eliminates or reduces the lawsuit problem. Plus, the Peralta site would be the end of tailgating, which is a dying art.

It's like 1000 feet from the Lake Merritt BART.
   8. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5531398)
That's true, it would be a traffic disaster. 880 is already a huge problem. I guess I'm imagining my life in Oakland - I could have walked to this stadium.

I lived in San Diego in similar circumstances, 1.5 miles from Petco, and I would go to games on a whim. It was wonderful. AT&T is wonderful for the same reason.

I also love tailgaiting but I'll take downtown access any time.
   9. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5531406)
It's like 1000 feet from the Lake Merritt BART.


It's more than double that


Now indeed, it IS close, it's not a horrible walk, but you must admit it's a substantial downgrade from the current BART service.

And PF, it's farther from downtown Oakland than you think. It's bounded by the Lake Merritt channel on West and 5th Ave on East. While new restaurants etc may well spring up around it, many fewer people will be walking to the corner of Broadway and Grand or even to City Center than you think will.
   10. Baldrick Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:02 AM (#5531414)
Now indeed, it IS close, it's not a horrible walk, but you must admit it's a substantial downgrade from the current BART service.

The humanity! An 8 minute walk compared to the current 5 minute walk.

And it's at a BART station which is much closer to the city, making it a substantial UPGRADE to the current BART service for anyone who doesn't live in Fremont.
   11. Ziggy: The Platonic Form of Russell Branyan Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5531495)
When do we get to rename this one?
   12. GregD Posted: September 14, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5531541)
We've had a few Primate tailgates there over the years.
I'm in if there's another.

Selfishly, I like the potential site. I like to go to As games and like to go to downtown Oakland, and can put two great tastes together. And I also like the potential boost to downtown (which may no longer need a boost but still...)

I like baseball stadiums in the middle of cities. Football, no. Basketball, either way. But baseball brings people in often enough that it can actually make a difference.

I get that parking and traffic seem like a nightmare but I'd take the BART anyway.

And I think there's no way to make a stadium at the Coliseum site seem cool or fun or something more than functional (especially once the Warriors and Raiders vacate the site), and this, if done well,could be cool and fun, and I'd like for Oakland to have nice things.
   13. A triple short of the cycle Posted: September 14, 2017 at 12:33 PM (#5531550)
Great location relative to DTO (Downtown Oakland) and BART. Yeah it's about half a mile from Lake Merritt Station. Only the Uptown site (long off the table) would have been better.

Dave you are the king of tailgating no doubt. I feel for you. You can come hang out at Radio Bar with me before games if you want.
   14. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5531563)
I'm in if there's another.


Next year.

I like baseball stadiums in the middle of cities. Football, no. Basketball, either way. But baseball brings people in often enough that it can actually make a difference.


I generally agree with this.

And I think there's no way to make a stadium at the Coliseum site seem cool or fun or something more than functional (especially once the Warriors and Raiders vacate the site), and this, if done well,could be cool and fun, and I'd like for Oakland to have nice things.


May I suggest taking another look at the map? This location, while not far from downtown, is NOT really in downtown Oakland. It's even closer to the freeway than the Coliseum, not saying that's a dealbreaker but it does reduce the ambience. It's next to a rail yard and a bunch of homeless camps & surrounded by a combination of light industry/warehouse and residential. It's a mile or more to the up & coming "cool" parts of Oakland and its burgeoning restaurant & entertainment zone.

Will it bring some good vibes to that area? Almost certainly yes, but qualitatively the site is only a bit better than the Coliseum. It's fair to say the Coliseum's existing parking & transit more than make up for that, and the Coliseum site could just as easily sprout a hip new district. Perhaps more easily given that it has fewer constraints.
   15. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5531566)
Dave you are the king of tailgating no doubt


That is the third greatest compliment that's ever been paid me. Thanks!
   16. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2017 at 01:25 PM (#5531593)
It's right where 880 South loses a lane which creates a snarl with port traffic starting at 2PM most days. The Northbound side is splitting off to 24 which usually starts to snarl by 3-4PM. Throw in a few thousand more cars into the 6-6:30 commute and you have a traffic disaster even by East Bay standards, which says a lot.

Wouldn't the A's [reasonably] expect the state & local governments to upgrade the transportation infrastructure, especially if the stadium is privately financed? Not sure how much such improvements would mitigate the problems, but it doesn't seem likely they would just drop a stadium into the existing mix.

I don't have any knowledge of the area, but given the A's difficulties over the years, I'd be wary of making the perfect the enemy of the good here. Any new stadium is going to have some compromises.
   17. johnseal Posted: September 14, 2017 at 01:39 PM (#5531603)
Walking from Lake Merritt BART to a new stadium might be a tiny bit further than walking to the Coliseum from Coliseum BART, but it will be infinitely more pleasant. Does anyone actually enjoy walking across the current elevated bridge? Is there anything about that walk or the bridge itself to recommend it?

And heck...if I want to get my exercise, I will be able to walk from home to the stadium in about 40 minutes.

Never understood the attraction of tailgating, and to be perfectly honest I've always resented tailgaters taking up two or three parking spaces when they've only paid for one.
   18. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 01:42 PM (#5531605)
Wouldn't the A's [reasonably] expect the state & local governments to upgrade the transportation infrastructure, especially if the stadium is privately financed? Not sure how much such improvements would mitigate the problems, but it doesn't seem likely they would just drop a stadium into the existing mix.


The freeway is elevated at that location. a good 40 feet or so. That would be a significant expense. There's also been an ongoing repaving and earthquake retrofitting happening there for the last few years. I'm not sure how willing Oakland would be to re-do that in the middle.

Edit: Northbound exit is at surface level but then inclines upward immediately after. There isn't a direct Southbound exit, it would require some street jockeying.
   19. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 01:47 PM (#5531610)

Never understood the attraction of tailgating


You don't understand the attraction of grilling meat, drinking beer, throwing a ball, chatting up and even swapping food & drink with neighboring tailgaters, listening to the pre game show & having a blast before attending one of life's most pleasing spectacles, all under a lovely azure sky in comfortable mid 70's sunshine?

   20. johnseal Posted: September 14, 2017 at 01:55 PM (#5531619)

You don't understand the attraction of grilling meat, drinking beer, throwing a ball, chatting up and even swapping food & drink with neighboring tailgaters, listening to the pre game show & having a blast before attending one of life's most pleasing spectacles, all under a lovely azure sky in comfortable mid 70's sunshine?


1. I like meat.
2. I hate beer and basically don't drink.
3. I have a weenie arm.
4. I'm an introvert and hate talking to people I don't know.
5. Listening to Ray more than I already do? No thanks.
6. I prefer night games because I hate direct sunlight. If I go to a day game I want seats in the shade.

So, er, basically, no I don't understand! :)
   21. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 02:01 PM (#5531627)
Wow. I bet you hate ice cream and blow jobs too.
   22. I am going to be Frank Posted: September 14, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5531628)
I bought two seasons of Rutgers football tickets just because of the tailgating. My buddies and I eventually figured out that you don't have to buy tickets to go tailgate (we're a smart bunch).
   23. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5531630)
Wow. I bet you hate ice cream and blow jobs too.


He's:

1. Allergic to dairy
2. Never had one
   24. A triple short of the cycle Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:14 PM (#5531729)
To the best of my knowledge, the Primer A's tailgates have not included Ray or any blowjobs.
   25. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:23 PM (#5531749)
Tailgating at the Coliseum is awesome but it would also be fun (albeit more expensive) to hit bars beforehand so hopefully a few pop up close enough to the new stadium. I hope they do a better job than the 49ers did. I went to an A's game last Saturday and then 49ers on Sunday. The stadium in Santa Clara wasn't full, not very loud, hard and expensive to get to and they ran out of hot dog buns before halftime!!!

I love the Coliseum but it's super outdated and consistently empty. I don't mind a 10 minute walk from BART.
   26. johnseal Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5531760)
Wow. I bet you hate ice cream and blow jobs too.


I love baseball. A's season ticket holder since 1990 (bar three years of self-imposed exile when the team was 'going to Fremont').

For me, everything besides the game itself is totally inessential and inconsequential.

   27. A triple short of the cycle Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5531761)
Does anyone actually enjoy walking across the current elevated bridge?

Before the game? That is where I smoke weed. So, yeah. After the game, not so much. It is a huge bottleneck.

EDIT: There are often musicians (sax player or drummer) on the bridge, which is nice.
   28. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5531762)
Even if the stadium is a bit disappointing it will be nice to have a competitive payroll and keep the types of young players they are usually trading when they get expensive. When they lose revenue sharing they will be either losing money or have an even tinier payroll.
   29. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5531782)
Even if the stadium is a bit disappointing it will be nice to have a competitive payroll and keep the types of young players they are usually trading when they get expensive. When they lose revenue sharing they will be either losing money or have an even tinier payroll.


It's really hard to be an A's fan right now, but the years between loss of revenue sharing & new park could be brutal.
   30. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5531783)
Fischer is the richest owner in baseball right? Hopefully he can lose a bit of money to keep them competitive or do something creative with the young guys and/or free agents.
   31. DL from MN Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:56 PM (#5531812)
I don't mind a 10 minute walk from BART.


Hopefully there is some help for those who might not be able bodied to enjoy the game also. That 10 minute walk could be 40 minutes for some.
   32. A triple short of the cycle Posted: September 14, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5531814)
It's really hard to be an A's fan right now

Have you seen Matt Chapman? He's making me forget Josh Donaldson.
   33. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 14, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5531883)
I bought two seasons of Rutgers football tickets just because of the tailgating. My buddies and I eventually figured out that you don't have to buy tickets to go tailgate (we're a smart bunch).

I had season tickets to the 49ers at Candlestick for a couple of years when they weren't very good. On more than one occasion, friends and I went to the parking lot before the game, tailgated for a while, then left and scalped our tickets on the way out to make back some of the cost.

It was really an ideal Sunday.
   34. Bote Man Posted: September 14, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5531897)
I'm only here for the BJs.
   35. GregD Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:14 PM (#5531960)
May I suggest taking another look at the map? This location, while not far from downtown, is NOT really in downtown Oakland. It's even closer to the freeway than the Coliseum, not saying that's a dealbreaker but it does reduce the ambience. It's next to a rail yard and a bunch of homeless camps & surrounded by a combination of light industry/warehouse and residential. It's a mile or more to the up & coming "cool" parts of Oakland and its burgeoning restaurant & entertainment zone.
This is fair. And the homeless camp is no small consideration by the freeway.

the Coliseum site could just as easily sprout a hip new district. Perhaps more easily given that it has fewer constraints.
this I doubt. The problem with the Coliseum site is, as with Philly's sports complex, no one has ever in history gone there for any reason except to get to the stadiums. At best you could hope for some development across from the BART stop. But there aren't signs of that now, which strikes me as good evidence of the future.
   36. You're a clown, RMc! I'm tired of it! Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:15 PM (#5531963)
Can these guys play there?
   37. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:31 PM (#5531969)
Highly recommend tailgating (and staying in the lot) on A's fireworks nights. I mean, it's plenty of fun from the field too, but if you're in the north lot, right by where the pedestrian ramp comes down, you're basically directly under the fireworks.
   38. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:40 PM (#5531978)
This is fair. And the homeless camp is no small consideration by the freeway.


This being the Bay Area, I fully expect at least one lawsuit filed on behalf of the homeless campers, citing displacement & disruption of their thriving bike theft & street prostitution businesses.
   39. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5531983)
this I doubt. The problem with the Coliseum site is, as with Philly's sports complex, no one has ever in history gone there for any reason except to get to the stadiums. At best you could hope for some development across from the BART stop. But there aren't signs of that now, which strikes me as good evidence of the future.


20-25 years ago nobody went to downtown Oakland unless they HAD to. What activity there was during the day ended promptly at 5PM when the sidewalks rolled up.

What changed was MONEY. Jerry Brown poured a ton in & while it took awhile to come to fruition, it has shown significant results, helped mightily by the tech booms and housing shortage (those two things are money also, in a roundabout way.) If
the Tenderloin can attract buyers of million dollar pads and West Oakland can sell out of $800,000 condos next to the freeway --150 yards from the sewage plant -- positive development can surely come to 66th Ave.

Indeed some already has. There are new apartment complexes just on the other side of San Leandro St, though it's easy for A's fans to miss them because they won't notice them from the BART ramp or parking lot. If the city has the desire and the bucks, it can happen.
   40. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 14, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5531984)
This being the Bay Area, I fully expect at least one lawsuit filed on behalf of the homeless campers, citing displacement & disruption of their thriving bike theft & street prostitution businesses.

You're probably right. We've seen a large influx of homeless encampments and petty crime in my neighborhood in San Francisco over the last 6-12 months. On NextDoor opinions on the matter are running about 70/30, with 30% of people saying they wished we had more police presence to deal with the crime, and 70% chastising the 30% for being unfeeling shitlords who should just leave their cars unlocked so that people didn't have to break into them looking for a place to sleep. I saw a bitter argument between two people, one of whom couldn't believe that the other didn't want to just start leaving food and blankets out on his porch every night so that people would know that was a safe place for them to sleep.

Though given the way things are going, in 5 years wherever you build in the Bay Area is going to be adjacent to many large homeless encampments, so the A's might as well just pick a place and go with it.
   41. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 07:05 PM (#5531992)
Seems like a chunk of that 70% has now moved over to Alameda (where I live) and is squawking about adding homeless services. Sure enough, we're seeing more & more bums panhandling and peeing etc on Park St (our main drag) and these folks are going on about "services" so we can attract more. Homelessness is a seemingly intractable problem in the Bay Area & I don't claim to have a ready solution myself, but tolerating that crap & attracting more of it is NOT the way I'd go.

   42. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:01 PM (#5532018)
I love Alameda.
   43. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5532019)
Having spent the early 80's wasted and not getting enough sex whilst faking my way through a uni degree at Berkeley, I know the area and I like the idea. I lived around Lake Merritt for my first 2 years at uni before moving across to SF. The area, though a bit dodgy in the early 80's, I assume is totally gentrified now and would be a terrific spot for a stadium.

You are concerned about walking a mile from BART...in California, in the summer? Dude, of the 81 home games they'd have, there'd be like 5 times Where is wouldn't be a pleasant 20 minute walk. People are fat, they need to walk more.

The last game I went to with my kids, we saw the Giants play at Pac Bell Park and walked to the stadium from our hotel near Union Square. A lot of people did this on the day we attended. People will walk if it's reasonably easy to do. If you don't provide parking, then no one will drive to the game. Being near the downtown is a huge plus in my book. After the game you can go to pub, grab a feed, anything.

Tailgating is for overweight people in the midwest.
   44. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:17 PM (#5532028)
What have I missed? Why won't the A's be getting revenue sharing?
   45. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:31 PM (#5532035)
The new cba is giving less each year until no more in 3 or 4 years. Yankees fans rejoice!
   46. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 14, 2017 at 08:39 PM (#5532042)
What have I missed? Why won't the A's be getting revenue sharing?

Because MLB revenue sharing is restricted to the 10 or 15 smallest markets. The A's are not one of them. They were given a special exemption in past CBAs. and now that is being phased out.
   47. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:07 PM (#5532058)
You are concerned about walking a mile from BART...in California, in the summer? Dude, of the 81 home games they'd have, there'd be like 5 times Where is wouldn't be a pleasant 20 minute walk. People are fat, they need to walk more.

The last game I went to with my kids, we saw the Giants play at Pac Bell Park and walked to the stadium from our hotel near Union Square. A lot of people did this on the day we attended. People will walk if it's reasonably easy to do. If you don't provide parking, then no one will drive to the game. Being near the downtown is a huge plus in my book. After the game you can go to pub, grab a feed, anything.


It's not that I am concerned about the distance, I am a walker by nature. I walk to work often (and when I don't I ride my bike).

It's that I doubt the projections & beliefs that people will suddenly start walking to/from Oakland's restaurants etc because it's a longer distance than most will be willing to do before or after a game. Look at the map. Perhaps such attractions will spring up around the park, which would be a positive thing, but again, look at the map. Hard by the freeway, next to estuary, industrial and residential on the other 2 sides. It's not the tabula rasa that SOMA was when AT&T was built. And frankly, it's Oakland, not SF. The jobs, income and fan base are less.

The lack of parking is a real concern because a fair number of people will drive to the games. Just because they shouldn't doesn't mean they don't. Look at SF. Foolish as it is -- and I would certainly never do it -- a large chunk of fans do drive to Giants games. The neighborhood is a snarled zoo on game days, which really complicates life for the residents and businesses there. It's so damn crowded people pay $50-80 to park. Nuts, but it happens. We have to rationally expect a fair chunk of A's fans to drive as well and the Coliseum is equipped for that, with ~10,000 parking spaces, 3 lane wide exits plus a BART station adjacent.

It just makes more sense.
   48. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:18 PM (#5532075)
I love Oakland and I feel like a downtownish stadium would be a marvelous galvanizing force for the city.
   49. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:18 PM (#5532076)
It's so damn crowded people pay $50-80 to park. Nuts, but it happens.

If you've got a family of four going to the game, $50 for parking is probably cheaper than railroad and subway tickets. And a lot faster.

I'm going to Yankee Stadium on Saturday with my dad and my two nephews. We'll probably pay $30-50 for parking. But even off-peak, for children and seniors, our Metro-North tickets would be $30 round-trip, And then another $20 for the subway round-trip. And the whole thing would take twice as long each way.
   50. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:26 PM (#5532086)
If you've got a family of four going to the game, $50 for parking is probably cheaper than railroad and subway tickets. And a lot faster.


Not too far off, but BART is still cheaper than the parking. Depending on distance figure $7-9 per head. Ferry is $15 for adults, $10 for kids but it's super easy and very pleasant. Time wise there is no contest: BART and ferry are much faster for most people. The Central Freeway in SF is a ########### on a good day, ballgame traffic makes it a parking lot.

I wouldn't drive to a Giants game unless I had a damn good reason, and that reason is hard to imagine. But many do.
   51. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:32 PM (#5532093)
Not too far off, but BART is still cheaper than the parking. Depending on distance figure $7-9 per head. Ferry is $15 for adults, $10 for kids

What if you're from the suburbs? Then you need to get to BART, first, right?

but it's super easy and very pleasant.

Two things no one has ever said about the NYC subways. I walk 15 blocks every day (including in 95 degree heat, rain and snow) to avoid a 5 minute subway ride.

No matter how bad the traffic, your car is climate controlled, and free of drunks and lunatics.
   52. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:35 PM (#5532096)
I love Oakland and I feel like a downtownish stadium would be a marvelous galvanizing force for the city.


Concur, except that ideal site at 19th and Telegraph was taken by Jerry Brown. As much as I preferred that location, though, that preference is from a baseball fan's POV. I disagreed with Brown's housing plan back then but time has proven his was the best option for the city as a whole.

Downtownish is a more accurate description of this plan than downtown. Do I hope it's a smashing success for Oakland, in the way of AT&T or Camden or Jacobs?? Yes, of course. Oakland is a wonderful and deeply underrated city that I'm very glad to see moving in a positive direction. I'm just not sure that's the way to bet re: this park plan.
   53. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:35 PM (#5532097)
What if you're from the suburbs? Then you need to get to BART, first, right?


BART is actually more of a commuter deal than an intra-city thing. It's goes right into several of the big suburban communities. I think parking at those BART stations is next to nothing, and, on evenings and weekends, it might even be free.
   54. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:38 PM (#5532101)
but it's super easy and very pleasant.

Two things no one has ever said about the NYC subways.


Taking the ferry to a game, especially a day game or mid-June night game, is a lovely experience. The boat docks just outside center field and it takes about 18 seconds to walk to the turnstile. The view never gets old, and enjoying a beer topside in the sunshine is a big fat cherry on top of the already great experience.
   55. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:39 PM (#5532103)
Fish:

Where you living now?
   56. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:43 PM (#5532109)
Maine!

But I lived in Temescal 10-12 years ago, had a sojourn in Noe Valley, then moved to Adams Point. Miss it a lot.
   57. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 09:47 PM (#5532113)
You moved to Maine?

What's her name?
   58. Brian C Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM (#5532120)
You're probably right. We've seen a large influx of homeless encampments and petty crime in my neighborhood in San Francisco over the last 6-12 months. On NextDoor opinions on the matter are running about 70/30, with 30% of people saying they wished we had more police presence to deal with the crime, and 70% chastising the 30% for being unfeeling shitlords who should just leave their cars unlocked so that people didn't have to break into them looking for a place to sleep. I saw a bitter argument between two people, one of whom couldn't believe that the other didn't want to just start leaving food and blankets out on his porch every night so that people would know that was a safe place for them to sleep.

I can believe that 70% of online commenters pretend to be super concerned about the homeless, but it seems extremely dubious to me that 70% of residents are actually leaving food and blankets on their porches at night. How does this shake out in practice?
   59. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:06 PM (#5532123)
No matter how bad the traffic, your car is climate controlled, and free of drunks and lunatics.

New here? Consider your audience.
   60. Brian C Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:17 PM (#5532133)
Personally, assuming that I had the money to spend, I'd much rather pay a little extra to take a train to a baseball game, especially with kids. When I was a kid growing up in Jacksonville, FL, my dad would take us to Wrigley every other year or so. I'm not exaggerating when I say that taking the 'L' to the ballpark were some of the most exciting days of my childhood. We took the train out to Shea on a family trip to NYC and that was an amazing night too.

I still love doing it, even now that I live in Chicago and I take the CTA every day. Taking a train full of fans to a sporting event is great fun. And usually when I see kids on the train on gamedays, they seem to love it, too.
   61. PreservedFish Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:51 PM (#5532166)

What's her name?


Mrs. PreservedFish
   62. Chicago Joe Posted: September 14, 2017 at 10:53 PM (#5532168)
I'm a little surprised at the beefing about NYC subways. I think it's a better system than Chicago's with about the same level of cleanliness.


And the kids on the CTA always seem to have a blast. My daughter prefers it to car travel, probably because it means we're doing something fun.
   63. Traderdave Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5532173)
I'm not exaggerating when I say that taking the 'L' to the ballpark were some of the most exciting days of my childhood. We took the train out to Shea on a family trip to NYC and that was an amazing night too.

I still love doing it, even now that I live in Chicago and I take the CTA every day. Taking a train full of fans to a sporting event is great fun. And usually when I see kids on the train on gamedays, they seem to love it, too.


Indeed. I like the way you distill a great experience into a couple of sentences. Reminds me of second shift at a factory when the line mysteriously snafu'd and we had a long break for a few dozen of us to crowd around a radio to listen to a World Series game.

Baseball can be magic that way.
   64. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:13 PM (#5532180)
I can believe that 70% of online commenters pretend to be super concerned about the homeless, but it seems extremely dubious to me that 70% of residents are actually leaving food and blankets on their porches at night. How does this shake out in practice?

I suspect it's very, very low. This is a true "don't feed the stray cat situation" - if you put food and blankets out one night, starting the next day you'd have 25 people sleeping in your lawn indefinitely. And given that the police have basically stopped enforcing any kind of laws against that, it would be up to you to figure out how to get rid of them (and then be shamed by your neighbors for not being more helpful).
   65. dave h Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:38 PM (#5532191)
But even off-peak, for children and seniors, our Metro-North tickets would be $30 round-trip, And then another $20 for the subway round-trip.


Kids are $1 on metro north (unless they're older than 11) - are they full fare on the subway? And if you're paying that much, I'm guessing you're pretty far down the line so there's gas and tolls. But yeah, the costs aren't that different, and it really comes down to preference. Some like the comfort and control of the car, others like the atmosphere and relaxation of the train. But I think as long as one or the other is doable the park is okay, and if I were a planner in the bay area I'd pick train access.
   66. dejarouehg Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:40 PM (#5532193)
I'm looking forward to the ballpark being built. Hoping to do a West Coast trip where I can get in SEA, OAK, SF & SD.

NYC Subways are much better than they were 25 years ago but that bar is pretty low. My daughter just started her first job in Manhattan and we calculated that it would cost (me!!!) $2000 a year for her to Uber to work, which is preferable to being cattle.

Taking the 7 to Shea from Woodside was very convenient. Was surprised how easy it was/is to get to YS by subway though I still usually drive. I guess it's a control thing.

Best tailgaters I've ever observed is still Milwaukee. They'd tailgate a good funeral.
But what is the deal with them taking up multiple parking spots? Is it some sense of entitlement bestowed upon them by the Barbecue Gods?
   67. dejarouehg Posted: September 14, 2017 at 11:50 PM (#5532203)
Having never gotten to Northern CA, I've only followed the stadium issue from afar and no sense of the local concerns though hearing about the homeless problem makes me just want to strictly limit visit to ballparks and the big trees.

It's been my impression that the Giants owners were being a little humpish and Selig obliged them. (I've always believed when territorial rights are an issue, push for very limited cross-ownership to compensate.) Is this location a better answer than what the A's were hoping for a decade ago?
   68. Traderdave Posted: September 15, 2017 at 12:13 AM (#5532214)

Best tailgaters I've ever observed is still Milwaukee. They'd tailgate a good funeral.


Agree. And agree.


Having never gotten to Northern CA, I've only followed the stadium issue from afar and no sense of the local concerns though hearing about the homeless problem makes me just want to strictly limit visit to ballparks and the big trees.


Homeless camps are a fact of life in every large city. They are likely a bit more prevalent here than other places but it certainly doesn't define a vacation here. We locals see camps under the freeway and behind strip malls etc. These are not the places you're going to be on a vacation, whether it's a baseball trip or any other kind.
   69. manchestermets Posted: September 15, 2017 at 06:16 AM (#5532232)
but it's super easy and very pleasant.

Two things no one has ever said about the NYC subways.


Pleasantness is clearly in the eye of the beholder, but what isn't easy about the NYC subway? You consult the map to determine which train to catch, you swipe your card at the turnstile, you get on the train. Hopefully, you remember to get off at the appropriate station.
   70. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 15, 2017 at 08:52 AM (#5532264)
Indeed, sounds like an attitude that formed in the 1970s and hasn't budged. When I've visited New York, I've found the subway to be far the best way to get around.
   71. PreservedFish Posted: September 15, 2017 at 08:57 AM (#5532266)
Snapper is the only one to criticize the subways in this thread, and he's a famous incorrigible grumpypants.
   72. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 15, 2017 at 09:00 AM (#5532268)
I'm a little surprised at the beefing about NYC subways. I think it's a better system than Chicago's with about the same level of cleanliness.


And the kids on the CTA always seem to have a blast. My daughter prefers it to car travel, probably because it means we're doing something fun.


Taking the green line to Fenway has really enhanced the ballpark experience for me since I moved to Boston. No worries about parking, easy access to a station near my house (not quite walking distance unless I had an hour to walk it, but still easy), and I can relax and read or close my eyes for 30-40 minutes while someone else stays vigilant. Getting back is a bit of a crush but the Fenway station is reasonable spacious and easy to navigate. I think it's about $2 each way, as opposed to ~$50 to park a car in the vicinity - even though I get my tickets for free through business, I'm much more willing to go to the games because the hassle of getting there is minimal.
   73. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 15, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5532297)
but what isn't easy about the NYC subway?

The system has been plagued with random, extensive delays for the past couple of years. As well as major line closings on weekends and evenings.
   74. jmurph Posted: September 15, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5532305)
I understand the closure/delay issue has increased in NY of late, but it's still miles better and more comprehensive than every other system in the country (with the possible exception of Boston? Smaller scale, though).
   75. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 15, 2017 at 10:16 AM (#5532313)
I understand the closure/delay issue has increased in NY of late, but it's still miles better and more comprehensive than every other system in the country

Sure. But if I can avoid it by using Metro-North/walking/driving, I will.

When I used to work downtown and take the subway from GCT to Bowling Green, probably 7 of 10 trips were perfectly smooth. 2 of 10 involved waiting for 2 or 3 trains to pass b/c of overcrowding, and being late. 1 of 10 involved either a 30 minute plus delay, or a mentally unstable or otherwise objectionable passenger making everyone miserable.
   76. johnseal Posted: September 15, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5532649)
Distressing that people still regard the homeless as moral lepers. Homelessness is increasing in the Bay Area because a)we don't build truly affordable housing, b)the housing that already exists is unaffordable, and c)the economic system we participate in is less and less willing to pay people a living wage.

   77. Ardo Posted: September 15, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5532707)
People are fat, they need to walk more.
Absolutely true. Primey for #43.
   78. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 15, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5532744)
Distressing that people still regard the homeless as moral lepers. Homelessness is increasing in the Bay Area because a)we don't build truly affordable housing, b)the housing that already exists is unaffordable, and c)the economic system we participate in is less and less willing to pay people a living wage.

Except that the homeless people that actually cause trouble for other people are the mentally ill and addicts (usually both) who should be institutionalized.

If you've got a major untreated mental illness, and a drug problem, there could be ample jobs digging ditches for $25/hr, and plentiful apartments for $500/month, and you'll still be on the street.
   79. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 15, 2017 at 07:10 PM (#5532775)
Ronald Reagan closed all of the state mental institutions and let the nuts out on the streets. It's a huge issue and in many cities the same few people go to the ER and cost the city a ton of money. Sad.

Crappy wages and high rent is a big problem too.
   80. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 15, 2017 at 07:17 PM (#5532778)
Ronald Reagan closed all of the state mental institutions and let the nuts out on the streets.

It's not a California thing. It happened everywhere.

The "de-institutionalization" movement sued and forced them to release anyone who could be OK on the outside if they took their meds. Unfortunately, most of these people seem not to like to take their meds.

California probably suffers particularly badly though because of the temperate climate.
   81. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 15, 2017 at 07:41 PM (#5532790)
When I've visited New York, I've found the subway to be far the best way to get around.

And now it's free for those agile enough to jump the turnstile.!
   82. Traderdave Posted: September 15, 2017 at 08:09 PM (#5532800)
Distressing that people still regard the homeless as moral lepers. Homelessness is increasing in the Bay Area because a)we don't build truly affordable housing, b)the housing that already exists is unaffordable, and c)the economic system we participate in is less and less willing to pay people a living wage.


I wouldn't go so far as to call them all "moral lepers" but the ones who have stolen our bikes, piss and #### on the sidewalk, pile up garbage in front their camps and other such lovely things may well qualify for that label.

Do we need more mental health services? Yes, several fold what we offer now. But I can be in favor of mental health services and still annoyed by anti social behavior sullying a nice community, can I not?
   83. Jose Canusee Posted: September 15, 2017 at 09:08 PM (#5532828)
If the parking garages are built to be shared by the college, that would generally be a win except it might mean the end of Wednesday day games during the school year.
   84. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 15, 2017 at 09:24 PM (#5532833)
Distressing that people still regard the homeless as moral lepers. Homelessness is increasing in the Bay Area because a)we don't build truly affordable housing, b)the housing that already exists is unaffordable, and c)the economic system we participate in is less and less willing to pay people a living wage.

I'm with Dave on this one. All of what you say is true, but it shouldn't give them carte blanche to turn downtown San Francisco (and increasingly the residential areas of the city) into some urine-soaked crime hot spot. Because right now that's where we are. Petty crime is through the roof, and the rates would be higher if people hadn't stopped bothering to report things when they learn that the police won't even bother to show up.

Excusing the homeless for their behavior because of their situation is like excusing the looters who were running around loading big screen TVs in their cars after Katrina hit New Orleans. Yeah, it's a mess and people are in a bad way. Doesn't mean you should make things worse by being a dick.
   85. Traderdave Posted: September 17, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5533317)

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