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Tuesday, October 22, 2019

Astros Staffer’s Outburst at Female Reporters Illustrates MLB’s Forgive-and-Forget Attitude Toward Domestic Violence

More than an hour after José Altuve won the Astros the pennant, the party in the Houston clubhouse still raged. Rightfielder Josh Reddick was crushing vodka Red Bulls. Starter Gerrit Cole smoked a cigar. Shortstop Carlos Correa gazed lovingly at the American League championship trophy.

And in the center of the room, assistant general manager Brandon Taubman turned to a group of three female reporters, including one wearing a purple domestic-violence awareness bracelet, and yelled, half a dozen times, “Thank God we got Osuna! I’m so f———glad we got Osuna!”

The outburst was offensive and frightening enough that another Houston staffer apologized. The Astros declined to comment. They also declined to make Taubman available for an interview.

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 09:21 AM | 324 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: asshats, astros, domestic violence, general, houston, houston astros, media

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   1. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5892730)
What an #######.
   2. JJ1986 Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:01 AM (#5892732)
The Astros press office later denied this, after which it was corroborated by a half-dozen reporters. They seem to be generally shitty human beings. I'm not sure what they get out of reflexively lying about it, except for giving their most tribal fans cover to defend them on twitter. Just ####### own up.
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:05 AM (#5892734)
Go Nats.

   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:20 AM (#5892737)
"Forgive and Forget"? The Astros exec in the story was surely not forgetting Osuna's history of domestic violence. He was reveling in it.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:23 AM (#5892740)
The evidence seems strongly against the Astros, but the SI piece is a little.... emphatic.

Like the bracelet detail, not sure what to make of that. a dude notices a woman's jewelry choice, and factors it into this rant?

there's definitely more to this story to come - though it might make it even worse for the Astros, if that's possible. but something is missing.
   6. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5892743)
The business model of the internet is to get you outraged and to keep you outraged.
   7. Charles S., looking 4 band-aids instead of dreams Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5892746)
The business model of the internet is to get you outraged and to keep you outraged.
That sounds like the business model of Brandon Taubman, too. To quote a noted contributor, "What an #######."
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:31 AM (#5892747)
Dude's got to be fired, right? Nothing to do with domestic violence. Just verbally abusing reporters at a team event is enough.

I'm pretty sure if I screamed at reporters, using profanity, at a company event, I'd be gone the next day.
   9. spycake Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5892748)
All Osuna did in game 6 was delay the celebration...
   10. spycake Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5892750)
Maybe he was talking about Al Osuna? How his early 90's middle reliever paved the way for this more recent success?
   11. pikepredator Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5892751)
It seems like it's fairly easy - if this was an honest mistake - to accept that the comments are tone-deaf/a bad look and acknowledge that "understanding the impact of comments like this is part of the learning process for all of us".

Whereas, doubling down and *insisting* this is being made into something it's not starts to feel a little victim-blamey. Like "Well it's not my fault you're offended that I gave props to the wife-beater who almost cost us the game today."

And if he really said it over and over, that has even more of a taunting feel.
   12. Tony S Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5892752)
What, exactly, was Taubman trying to accomplish there?
   13. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:36 AM (#5892753)
That sounds like the business model of Brandon Taubman, too.


And SugarBear himself, for that matter.
   14. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5892754)
Dude's got to be fired, right?


Well, you'd like to think so, but this is the #2 guy in baseball operations - basically Luhnow's protege. So they're going to look for any possible reason to give him a pass.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:40 AM (#5892755)
It seems like it's fairly easy - if this was an honest mistake - to accept that the comments are tone-deaf/a bad look and acknowledge that "understanding the impact of comments like this is part of the learning process for all of us".

How is screaming profanity at someone an "honest mistake"?
   16. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5892756)
What, exactly, was Taubman trying to accomplish there?

I'd say intimidation.

Ask SBB, he seems an expert on humans. Although his response looks more like a drive-by.

   17. Gary Truth Serum Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:42 AM (#5892758)
Maybe he was talking about Al Osuna? How his early 90's middle reliever paved the way for this more recent success?

It was actually a reference to Antonio Osuna, whose 178 ERA+ season for the Dodgers in 1997 provided an inspiration for the 2019 ALCS.
   18. Tony S Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:44 AM (#5892760)

I'd say intimidation.

Maybe so. So how weak and useless does a person have to be that he feels the NEED to intimidate others who were causing him no harm or even inconvenience?
   19. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5892761)
Well, you'd like to think so, but this is the #2 guy in baseball operations - basically Luhnow's protege. So they're going to look for any possible reason to give him a pass.


He'll be placed on a paid leave of absence pending investigation--which amounts to he'll be working from home for a couple months--and then they'll try to bring him back as quietly as possible, hoping it's all blown over.

At least, that's what likely will happen if it's left up to the Astros. The Commissioner's office could step in.
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5892762)
He'll be placed on a paid leave of absence pending investigation--which amounts to he'll be working from home for a couple months--and then they'll try to bring him back as quietly as possible, hoping it's all blown over.

At least, that's what likely will happen if it's left up to the Astros. The Commissioner's office could step in.


Commissioner needs to step in. You can't be verbally abusing the press at league events. The domestic violence stuff doesn't even matter. If you scream at people repeatedly, using profanity, bye bye. Either he was drunk, he's a bully, or he has no impulse control. All of those are unacceptable,
   21. PreservedFish Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:51 AM (#5892763)
Was he drunk? Does it matter?
   22. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5892764)
this is the #2 guy in baseball operations
He certainly comes off as a #2.
   23. PreservedFish Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:54 AM (#5892765)
That was your #2 #2 joke in the last week.
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5892767)
You're keeping track?
   25. PreservedFish Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5892769)
Antonio Osuna's 1997 season has helped inspire me to be a more attentive and mindful BTF member.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 10:59 AM (#5892770)
Was he drunk? Does it matter?

see #20, no. It makes the screaming offense less egregious, but it adds the offense of getting #### faced at a work event in front of media.
   27. Stevis Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5892774)
That was your #2 #2 joke in the last week.

It's important to stay regular.
   28. bunyon Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:10 AM (#5892779)
see #20, no. It makes the screaming offense less egregious, but it adds the offense of getting #### faced at a work event in front of media.

I assume he was drunk. Could be all the team supplied alcohol provided.

And, no, it isn't a mitigating factor. He has to go.
   29. PreservedFish Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:12 AM (#5892780)
It makes the screaming offense less egregious, but it adds the offense of getting #### faced at a work event in front of media.


But getting shitfacted is sort of the victory party culture, isn't it?

Not that I'm not really trying to defend the guy, I think his outburst as described in the excerpt is at best deeply strange and concerning.
   30. Rally Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5892782)
Dude's got to be fired, right? Nothing to do with domestic violence. Just verbally abusing reporters at a team event is enough.


I think that's going too far to call this verbally abusing the reporters. I know about Osuna's problems, but at face value he's celebrating a player on his team right after they win the pennant. He's not threatening or insulting the reporters directly, though I can see how this can be considered taunting.

Agree he has to be fired though. There are two alternatives:

1. He's responding to the purple bracelet and deliberately taunting the reporters
2. He genuinely believes that because Osuna was credited with the 'W', a pitcher with a game ERA of 18.00 actually made an important contribution.

Either way, that's not a guy I want in my front office. Should have been saying "I’m so f———glad we have Altuve!” Certainly nothing wrong with dropping a few celebratory F-bombs in the aftermath of a pennant win.
   31. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5892783)
What, exactly, was Taubman trying to accomplish there?

Be an edgelord, troll epically, own the SJWs, etc.
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5892786)
But getting shitfacted is sort of the victory party culture, isn't it?

Not if you're a senior executive, and can't control yourself.

To be clear, I wouldn't discipline an employee simply for getting drunk at a victory party, or any party. If you can get drunk and not be an offensive #######, go for it.

But, if you choose to get drunk, you're fully responsible for whatever foolish #### you do, be it getting in a fight, being loud and obnoxious, or making out with Carol from HR.
   33. Accent Shallow is borderline fanatic Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:16 AM (#5892787)
Especially because it's not like Osuna was the difference in this series.
   34. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:18 AM (#5892788)
I think that's going too far to call this verbally abusing the reporters. I know about Osuna's problems, but at face value he's celebrating a player on his team right after they win the pennant. He's not threatening or insulting the reporters directly, though I can see how this can be considered taunting.

If he yelled it at them half a dozen times, how is that not taunting? Once, OK.
   35. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5892789)
Ask SBB, he seems an expert on humans.


I'd suggest the Taxi episode with Jim Ignatowski, a bunch of TVs, and the great Delawarians vs. Delawarites debate. That was the precursor to all this. Trick Mirror by Jia Tolentino is an extremely good very recent treatment. I highly recommend it.

If you and yours want to spend your entire lives being "outraged" by obscure "events" that don't remotely involve you, it's still kind of a free country. Have at it.
   36. Rally Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5892790)
Antonio Osuna's 1997 season has helped inspire me to be a more attentive and mindful BTF member.


Not out of the realm of possibility that Antonio was at the ballpark cheering him on, and maybe even made it to the clubhouse. He's doesn't just have the same name, he's Roberto's uncle.
   37. bunyon Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:19 AM (#5892791)
I don't think it's strange, PF. The Astros think they were very smart in getting a quality reliever cheap, while unloading a problem reliever of their own. Basically, they exchanged a problem on the field for a problem off. That, after a fashion, has paid off in a pennant and, so, they think they're really smart. However, people keep bringing up the off-field issue(s) and it irritates the decision makers. He got drunk, saw some folks who keep calling him out for his using domestic violence to shore up the bullpen and told them off.

The weird thing, to me, is that clearly the vast majority of the baseball world doesn't care about domestic violence. Or, at least, thinks it shouldn't keep you off the field. So, the smart play is to just say nothing. Make your baseball moves and keep your mouth shut. If I'm the Astros, that's why I fire him. He brought up a topic, with reporters, that they would rather not talk about all in order to antagonize people they don't want to antagonize.

On the other hand, I think it's likely the entire front office, including ownership, feels like lashing out at people who keep bringing up the domestic violence charge and, so, may give him a pass, using booze as the fig leaf.
   38. The_Ex Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:21 AM (#5892792)
That article is almost an opinion piece and an FU back.

I get the impression that the Astros are not beloved in the baseball world, there are a lot of use of the word "arrogant". Is it just the winning or is there a swagger there too?
   39. Rally Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5892793)
If he yelled it at them half a dozen times, how is that not taunting? Once, OK.


Taunting, yes. But I can't call this "verbally abusing". That's another step up.
   40. Accent Shallow is borderline fanatic Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:25 AM (#5892795)
bunyon, I could absolutely understand that if Osuna Mariano Riveraed this series. But outside of Game 2, Osuna didn't do anything particularly notable, which why this is so bizarre to me.

(Obviously blowing the save in Game 6 is notable, but presumably they have others on the roster who could have blown that save)
   41. Tin Angel Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5892798)
If you do a Google image search, this guy looks pretty much exactly like the type of guy you would except to do something like this.
   42. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:28 AM (#5892799)
Despite being a "Senior Executive" this guy is 34 years old, was hired from an investment bank in 2013, and promoted to Manager of Baseball Operations in 2014, Director of Baseball Operations in 2015, Senior Director of Baseball Operations & Analytics in 2017, and Assistant General Manager in 2018, so I would expect a certain (enormous) amount of arrogance.
   43. bunyon Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:35 AM (#5892802)
bunyon, I could absolutely understand that if Osuna Mariano Riveraed this series. But outside of Game 2, Osuna didn't do anything particularly notable, which why this is so bizarre to me.

(Obviously blowing the save in Game 6 is notable, but presumably they have others on the roster who could have blown that save)


It isn't just that one game, though. He's been solid for them over two years while the guy they dumped to get him sucked ass for them. On the field, this is a hands-down win for the front office. If I'm them, I just acknowledge that it's ugly on a personal level and do as little as possible to bring attention to it. But it seems that the FO thinks they made a brilliant deal and rather than get praise for it, they've gotten criticism. To a certain type of person, that will be grating.
   44. Nasty Nate Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:37 AM (#5892804)
It isn't just that one game, though. He's been solid for them over two years while the guy they dumped to get him sucked ass for them. On the field, this is a hands-down win for the front office. If I'm them, I just acknowledge that it's ugly on a personal level and do as little as possible to bring attention to it. But it seems that the FO thinks they made a brilliant deal and rather than get praise for it, they've gotten criticism. To a certain type of person, that will be grating.
The timing is extremely strange for a "see! we were right to acquire this guy!"
   45. pikepredator Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5892805)
How is screaming profanity at someone an "honest mistake"?


I'm going full "benefit of the doubt" (which I don't actually believe). In order for the Astros' story to hold any water at all, Taubman wasn't actually screaming "at" anyone - he was just caught up in the euphoria of going to the World Series, and people happened to be nearby. But even in that case, the fact that the front office isn't even willing to recognize that "feelings may have been hurt" (that phrase makes my skin crawl) is sad and indicative of the truth - that he's literally throwing this back in the faces of female reporters who likely questioned his judgement. And so UM has to complete refute it as though it's preposterous. Which is one of the reasons women don't speak up about abuse in the first place.

Certainly nothing wrong with dropping a few celebratory F-bombs in the aftermath of a pennant win.


Agreed. And there isn't a shred of evidence that this was just that.
   46. PreservedFish Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5892806)
I don't think it's strange, PF. The Astros think they were very smart in getting a quality reliever cheap, while unloading a problem reliever of their own. Basically, they exchanged a problem on the field for a problem off. That, after a fashion, has paid off in a pennant and, so, they think they're really smart. However, people keep bringing up the off-field issue(s) and it irritates the decision makers. He got drunk, saw some folks who keep calling him out for his using domestic violence to shore up the bullpen and told them off.


I said that it was strange "at best." Like, the most charitable interpretation for me was that he was drunk, saw the women, immediately though "Osuna! Women hate him!" and just said some drunk edgelord #### that he would never say otherwise and that he doesn't really even believe. If the three writers have in fact repeatedly called out the Astros for "using domestic violence," then I agree it's not strange: it makes sense, and it's malicious, and reflects very negatively on his character.
   47. Cris E Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:42 AM (#5892807)
It's like the guy is thinking he made a brilliant baseball move when the rest of the league is aware it was more than a baseball move. That d-bag unawareness (intentional dis-awareness?) emerging after a couple beers is not a good look, and the team needs to make a move to acknowledge that there is more than baseball at stake here and that they know it. The league needs to make a call to ensure they don't stay doubled down on this.
   48. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5892808)
Despite being a "Senior Executive" this guy is 34 years old, was hired from an investment bank in 2013, and promoted to Manager of Baseball Operations in 2014, Director of Baseball Operations in 2015, Senior Director of Baseball Operations & Analytics in 2017, and Assistant General Manager in 2018, so I would expect a certain (enormous) amount of arrogance.

He should be easily replaceable then.
   49. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5892809)
I'd suggest the Taxi episode with Jim Ignatowski, a bunch of TVs, and the great Delawarians vs. Delawarites debate. That was the precursor to all this. Trick Mirror by Jia Tolentino is an extremely good very recent treatment. I highly recommend it. If you and yours want to spend your entire lives being "outraged" by obscure "events" that don't remotely involve you, it's still kind of a free country. Have at it.

This does not answer the question "What was Taubman trying to accomplish?" I don't actually consider this an outrage, but I do consider it actionable. Similar to one of your neighbors taking a piss in your doorway as you leave your building is not an outrage, but it is actionable.


If the three writers have in fact repeatedly called out the Astros for "using domestic violence," then I agree it's not strange: it makes sense, and it's malicious, and reflects very negatively on his character.

A reasonable take, although I would differ in that it reflects negatively on his character, period. Granted, I hate drunken belligerence.
   50. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:48 AM (#5892813)
A reasonable take, although I would differ in that it reflects negatively on his character, period. Granted, I hate drunken belligerence.

Concur. Although I view all belligerence equally. It's completely inappropriate at work, and Taubman was at work.
   51. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5892814)
I am admittedly more forgiving of sober belligerence.
   52. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5892815)
This does not answer the question "What was Taubman trying to accomplish".


There's no reason to care, and no one here would have cared pre-Internet, maybe even pre-like 2010. If he was trying to "accomplish" something no good, he'll be fired or disciplined. I'm sure there will be more corporate employees at roughly his level disciplined this year and next and the year after that, and there's no reason whatever to get outraged over that, just as there was no need to get outraged over the discipline of corporate employees from 1987-1989 or 1997-1999.

There's a big demand for outrage now, and -- what a shock -- the marketplace has responded by jacking the supply of outrage way up. If you want to feed the beast, like I said, have at it. Kind of a strange and narcissistic way to spend one's life, though.

   53. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5892817)
He should be easily replaceable then.

I don't know if this is serious but I do think he should be easily replaceable and most of those promotions were because everyone who built the team except Luhnow keeps leaving the organization.
   54. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5892818)
I am admittedly more forgiving of sober belligerence.

Really? That's weird to me.
   55. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5892819)
There's no reason to care, and no one here would have cared pre-Internet

The way no one cared if a husband swatted their wife pre-internet.
   56. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5892820)
I don't know if this is serious but I do think he should be easily replaceable and most of those promotions were because everyone who built the team except Luhnow keeps leaving the organization.

Dead serious. He's 34 and has 5 years of baseball experience, and likely no other relevant experience besides building cash flow spreadsheets. I'm certain I or 50 other Primates could step into his job tomorrow and do fine.

This is not the kind of talent an organization should take a PR beating for.
   57. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5892822)
The way no one cared if a husband swatted their wife pre-internet.


If this is what you need to tell yourself to feel better, have at it, and if you actually believe it, the animating causes of your "outrage" began to reveal themselves.
   58. Kiko Sakata Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5892823)
It isn't just that one game, though. He's been solid for them over two years while the guy they dumped to get him sucked ass for them. On the field, this is a hands-down win for the front office.


Osuna hasn't been that much better for the Astros than Giles has been for the Blue Jays (2.46 ERA for Osuna since the trade - 2.63 this year; 2.48 ERA for Giles since the trade - 1.87 this year). You actually don't have to give very much weight at all to the domestic violence thing to view that trade as meh at best. Given how Game 6 went, is there any reason to think that the Astros couldn't have made the World Series with Giles as their closer?
   59. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5892825)
If it had not been posted I would have so called this dude as coming from finance. Such utter ########## as a group. ####### outrageous really
   60. jmurph Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5892827)
One of the things I like to do when I DEFINITELY DON'T CARE ABOUT SOMETHING is to post about it 4 times (and counting?).
   61. JJ1986 Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5892828)
So SugerBear is pro- screaming at people because they don't want to pretend that domestic violence doesn't exist?
   62. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:02 PM (#5892829)
Really? That's weird to me.

I'm a teetotaler. Drunks are more annoying by default. YMMV.
   63. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:03 PM (#5892830)
If this is what you need to tell yourself to feel better

About.... what?
   64. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5892833)
About.... what?


Your politics and your outrage -- both of which depend on a boatload of tall tales about the pre-internet past.
   65. pikepredator Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5892834)
obscure "events" that don't remotely involve you


since I have a son and daughter, public perception of (alleged) domestic abusers involves me. I'd rather such people not be celebrated by men in positions of power, and if someone is going to take advantage of his position and this opportunity to actually taunt women, I'd say society as a whole still has a long way to go.

but if domestic violence isn't in any way part of your life or your loved ones' lives and/or you don't believe it to be a societal issue, your lack of concern for this very public celebration of an (alleged) abuser is completely understandable.

Also, obscure doesn't mean what you think it means. your posts are obscure to me, except when someone quotes them. SI stories are not, and I'm glad they are willing to shine a light on this kind of behavior.
   66. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:09 PM (#5892836)
Your politics and your outrage.

My politics are way to the right of yours, and I think this guy is an ####### who should have already been fired.
   67. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5892837)
Your politics and your outrage
49. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5892809) - I don't actually consider this an outrage, but I do consider it actionable. Similar to one of your neighbors taking a piss in your doorway as you leave your building is not an outrage, but it is actionable.
   68. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5892838)
Yea, it's now long established that the playbook of the outraged includes inevitably calling the people who bemoan the outrage culture supporters of the thing that's done the outraging.

   69. Traderdave Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5892839)
But getting shitfacted is sort of the victory party culture, isn't it?

Not if you're a senior executive, and can't control yourself.

To be clear, I wouldn't discipline an employee simply for getting drunk at a victory party, or any party. If you can get drunk and not be an offensive #######, go for it.

But, if you choose to get drunk, you're fully responsible for whatever foolish #### you do, be it getting in a fight, being loud and obnoxious, or making out with Carol from HR.


I work in an industry noted for boozy events, and noted for heavy hitters getting away with a lot because they are profitable. The above reminds me of a conversation I once had with a managing director who told me he never promotes anyone until he's seen how they handle drinking at several such affairs. He said something to the effect of "you gotta handle yourself when you're drinking, cuz you're gonna hafta handle ######## like this when they're drinking."




   70. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5892840)
69--Roger that. I shared this story with my aunt who is a managing director at Morgan Stanley and she said if this guy were still in finance and did that he would be fired or at minimum given a suspension and a written warning whic is equivalent to being told to find a new job, right?
   71. Quaker Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:15 PM (#5892841)
It's laughable that this is a story. The Asst GM said he was "so f'ing glad" they acquired Osuna. The mental gymnastics needed to turn this into some controversy where a guy should lose his job are incredible.
   72. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5892842)
I work in an industry noted for boozy events, and noted for heavy hitters getting away with a lot because they are profitable.

Sure, Jose Altuve gets away with this, an utterly replaceable drone like Taubman gets fired, in most all companies.
   73. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5892843)
71--it's not about the words dude, it's how stuff is perceived. You can ##### about it but this the current mode
   74. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5892844)
It's laughable that this is a story. The Asst GM said he was "so f'ing glad" they acquired Osuna. The mental gymnastics needed to turn this into some controversy where a guy should lose his job are incredible.

Of course that's not what the story claims. Yelling it 6 times directly at three female reporters is entirely different than what you just wrote.
   75. Traderdave Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5892845)
70

Morgan runs a tighter ship than most, and in general the big banks have cleaned up their act more than the regionals and boutiques have.

But at many shops, if the offender was a major producer, odds are very good that a Monday morning "hey, dial it back a bit next time" would be the only result, and it would take a few such events for meaningful action to occur.
   76. notdavo Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:21 PM (#5892846)
I know a couple members of the Astros front office personally (they post in the Lounge), and this news doesn’t surprise me in the least.
   77. Blastin Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5892847)

I don't even get why they're lying. Suspend the dude. Find another finance bro (or maybe get someone who isn't a finance bro).

Not that the Yankees aren't rife with some gross dudes, but the Astros org is not really covering itself in glory here.

That Verlander thing with the reporter was also weird.

   78. jmurph Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5892848)
 71. Quaker Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:15 PM (#5892841)
It's laughable that this is a story. The Asst GM said he was "so f'ing glad" they acquired Osuna. The mental gymnastics needed to turn this into some controversy where a guy should lose his job are incredible.

So not, like, a practicing Quaker.
   79. Quaker Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5892849)
Of course that's not what the story claims. Yelling it 6 times directly at three female reporters is entirely different than what you just wrote.


Who cares? Did he threaten them? Who in their right mind would be "frightened" by some 35 y/o Cornell bro yelling about a baseball player?

What is the crime that merits pissing this guy's career away? Using the F-word while drunk?

   80. Lassus Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:25 PM (#5892851)
Yea, it's now long established that the playbook of the outraged includes inevitably calling the people who bemoan the outrage culture supporters of the thing that's done the outraging.

Is this a response to #67? Also, I did not do this.
   81. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5892852)
It's laughable that this is a story. The Asst GM said he was "so f'ing glad" they acquired Osuna. The mental gymnastics needed to turn this into some controversy where a guy should lose his job are incredible.

If I were to have a player on my team who blew a lead in a deciding playoff game, and then we won anyway, I would definitely celebrate by singling that player out for praise.

No need to assume people are leaping from "this guy is an #######\" to "this guy should have his career ended". Or from "this guy seems to be an #######, based on a single incident" to "this guy should have his career ended, based on a single incident". People outraged by the outrage always do make that assumption though.
   82. RoyalFlush Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:27 PM (#5892854)
It's laughable that this is a story. The Asst GM said he was "so f'ing glad" they acquired Osuna. The mental gymnastics needed to turn this into some controversy where a guy should lose his job are incredible.


This checks a lot of boxes.
   83. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5892855)
79--not a crime. Behavior that is not aligned with the organization's values. With the vast majority of incoming workers being women because women are getting educated at a much higher percentage than men if your firm says nothing about this behavior you will have a retention/recruiting problem sooner than later.
   84. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5892857)
Is this a response to #67?


No.
   85. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5892858)
If you do a Google image search, this guy looks pretty much exactly like the type of guy you would except to do something like this.
Really? I was expecting someone much more bro-y than this guy.
   86. Bug Selig Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5892859)
The denial is worse than the thing (and I'm not defending the thing). #### the Astros, seriously.
   87. SoSH U at work Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5892860)
But it seems that the FO thinks they made a brilliant deal and rather than get praise for it, they've gotten criticism.


I'd say their brilliance has been tempered somewhat by the fact the guy they dealt was better this year.

   88. Jose is an Absurd Time Cube Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5892863)
Huh, this thread seems to be exactly what I'd expected. Quaker is a fun* addition.

* in the not fun kind of way.
   89. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5892864)
* in the not fun kind of way.
So, literally fun.
   90. Blastin Posted: October 22, 2019 at 12:47 PM (#5892869)
I'd say their brilliance has been tempered somewhat by the fact the guy they dealt was better this year.


I was hoping the Yankees acquired him and his face punching, but apparently they didn't like his medicals. Would have been funny if he'd helped them win against the guy they'd traded for him.


Anyway, Quaker is looking ripe for a blocking.
   91. Rusty Priske Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5892884)
The mental gymnastics required to make what he did anything BUT offensive in incredible.

In other words, Quaker is a troll. Probably an incel troll, but I don't want to assume. He probably uses the term 'politically correct' un-ironically, and considers SJW a legitimate insult.
   92. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5892887)
Oh awesome, OTP is back. Thanks, Jim!
   93. spycake Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5892888)
There's no reason to care, and no one here would have cared pre-Internet, maybe even pre-like 2010. If he was trying to "accomplish" something no good, he'll be fired or disciplined.


So you're assuming that if no attention was paid to it, the Astros would investigate/fire/discipline as appropriate, exactly the same? That seems... unlikely. More likely, it just makes it easier for the Astros to brush under the rug.
   94. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5892890)
So you're assuming that if no attention was paid to it, the Astros would investigate/fire/discipline as appropriate, exactly the same? That seems... unlikely. More likely, it just makes it easier for the Astros to brush under the rug.

I also find it highly unlikely that SI would have let this go, pre-internet. And SI had a much bigger platform in the old days.
   95. Blastin Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:26 PM (#5892891)
In the pre-internet days, sadly we probably never find out about what Osuna did, but yes, SI would have reported on this behavior if the specifics were different but the broad strokes were the same.
   96. . Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:31 PM (#5892893)
So you're assuming that if no attention was paid to it, the Astros would investigate/fire/discipline as appropriate, exactly the same?


No, I'm saying that I don't care if some corporation somewhere fires a guy. The fact that his conduct managed to make its way into the outrage machine is neither here nor there. Because the outrage machine is manufactured and stupid.
   97. Blastin Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:34 PM (#5892894)
Oops, double, sorry.
   98. Jeremy Renner App is Dead and I killed it Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5892895)
I thought the '.' post was just a bot but people have referred to it like it's an actual person. Is that correct??
   99. SoSH U at work Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:39 PM (#5892897)
I thought the '.' post was just a bot but people have referred to it like it's an actual person. Is that correct??


He's a long-time poster, formerly known as Sugar Bear. Whatever sobriquet he's employing, this annoying "I'm too advanced to care about anything you phonies pretend to care about" thing is one of his shticks. He has many, all equally tiresome.
   100. spycake Posted: October 22, 2019 at 01:40 PM (#5892898)
No, I'm saying that I don't care if some corporation somewhere fires a guy.


Good for you.

A bunch of other people do care about this kind of behavior and poor judgement, and want to see it stigmatized. Which is best accomplished, in this case, by giving the incident some attention, contrary to your ramblings on the subject.
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