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Monday, August 14, 2017

BAR: One Joey Votto streak ended, another continues

Joey Votto’s 17-game hit streak ended on Sunday, but he still has another even more impressive streak going – he’s reached base more than once in 18 straight games, the longest such streak in Reds history.

He’s only three games from tying the longest streak in baseball since 1900, according to Elias Sports Bureau. Ted Williams, Votto’s hitting role model, owns the record, reaching base in 21 consecutive games in 1948. Pete Rose and Barry Bonds both had 20-game streaks. Rose with the Phillies in 1979 and Bonds in 2004.

Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:56 AM | 17 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: joey votto, reds, streaks

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   1. caspian88 Posted: August 14, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5513009)
Uuh, didn't Joe DiMaggio reach base in at least 56 consecutive games?
   2. Batman Posted: August 14, 2017 at 03:21 PM (#5513012)
It looks like DiMaggio's longest reaching-more-than-once streak during his big streak was only seven games. There were 29 longer multiple-reach streaks that year.

Williams also had a 23-game multiple-reach streak in 1957 if you go by MLB's hitting streak rules. He had a game in the middle of it when he only hit once and drew a walk.
   3. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: August 14, 2017 at 03:25 PM (#5513015)
Didn't someone on this site use play index and find that Williams had a 23-game streak and a 21 game streak?
   4. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: August 14, 2017 at 03:35 PM (#5513026)
Yes. From last Thursday's dugout:

70. Batman Posted: August 10, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5510710)
The Play Index says the longest two-times-on-base streak since 1913 was Ted Williams with 23 in 1957. He broke the record of 21 set by 1948 Ted Williams. Pete Rose (1979) is next at 20, then Bonds at 19. Jason Giambi, Steve Finley, Ted Williams, Ted Williams again, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, and Steve Evans of the 1914 Brooklyn Tip Tops had 18-gamers.
   5. TDF, FCL Posted: August 14, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5513036)
70. Batman Posted: August 10, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5510710)
The Play Index says the longest two-times-on-base streak since 1913 was Ted Williams with 23 in 1957. He broke the record of 21 set by 1948 Ted Williams. Pete Rose (1979) is next at 20, then Bonds at 19. Jason Giambi, Steve Finley, Ted Williams, Ted Williams again, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, and Steve Evans of the 1914 Brooklyn Tip Tops had 18-gamers.
Unless you're including something other than H, BB, HBP, or ROE Williams had no such streak in '57. His longest streak that year was 17.
   6. Batman Posted: August 14, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5513041)
Williams walked in his only plate appearance in the game after his 17-game streak. The Play Index must apply the hitting streak rules that say a streak doesn't end in a game like that. He added six more games after that.
   7. BDC Posted: August 14, 2017 at 04:06 PM (#5513044)
I guess the spirit of that rule is that if you don't get two chances to do something, then your streak of doing it twice should be intact.
   8. PeteF3 Posted: August 14, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5513093)
I guess the spirit of that rule is that if you don't get two chances to do something, then your streak of doing it twice should be intact.


That's consistent with MLB rules. A hitting streak does not end if a player has a PA in a game but no ABs (i.e., he walks three times and gets hit by a pitch or sacrifices).
   9. JAHV Posted: August 14, 2017 at 07:35 PM (#5513155)

That's consistent with MLB rules. A hitting streak does not end if a player has a PA in a game but no ABs (i.e., he walks three times and gets hit by a pitch or sacrifices).


Is that true? First, I wouldn't think that MLB rules would specifically address statistics that don't have anything to do with scorekeeping during a game. Second, I thought hitting streaks ended if you got at least one plate appearance (not at bat) but didn't get a hit. I very well could be wrong on both, but that would surprise me.
   10. cardsfanboy Posted: August 14, 2017 at 07:54 PM (#5513165)
I'm pretty sure that 8 is correct, you need an at bat to qualify for a game played for a hitting streak.

According to Wikipedia
In baseball, a hitting streak is the number of consecutive official games in which a player appears and gets at least one base hit. According to the Official Baseball Rules, such a streak is ended when a player has at least 1 plate appearance and no hits. A streak shall not be terminated if all official plate appearances result in a base on balls, hit by pitch, defensive interference or a sacrifice bunt. The streak shall terminate if the player has a sacrifice fly and no hit.[1]


It references mlb rules, but not exactly points to the proper rule. Which is rule 9.23....



(b) Consecutive-Game Hitting Streaks
(b) A consecutive-game hitting streak shall not be terminated if all
of a batter’s plate appearances (one or more) in a game result
in a base on balls, hit batsman, defensive interference or
obstruction or a sacrifice bunt. The streak shall terminate if the
player has a sacrifice fly and no hit.
(b) A player’s individual consecutive-game hitting streak shall be
determined by the consecutive games in which such player
appears and is not determined by his club’s games.
   11. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: August 14, 2017 at 10:49 PM (#5513299)
Votto raps a single in the 7th for his second hit. The streak lives.
   12. SoSH U at work Posted: August 14, 2017 at 11:35 PM (#5513335)
The streak shall terminate if the player has a sacrifice fly and no hit.[1]

Interesting that hitting streaks treat sacrifice flies correctly. Too bad BA doesn't.
   13. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: August 15, 2017 at 08:18 PM (#5514045)
A BB in his first PA tonight
   14. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: August 15, 2017 at 10:28 PM (#5514162)
3 walks tonight, 20 straight
   15. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: August 15, 2017 at 11:20 PM (#5514233)
@ckamka: Joey Votto 20-game on-base streak:
.435/.611/.742, 55 times on base (27 hits, 26 walks, 2 HBP) #Reds
   16. Ithaca2323 Posted: August 16, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5514318)
So, Votto's a HOFer, right?

I mean, given how Edgar Martinez has shot up in voting, and the possibility of another MVP award, he's got to be in, barring a collapse. I can't see how you could vote for Edgar and not Votto
   17. BDC Posted: August 16, 2017 at 09:32 AM (#5514324)
Bucket list for Joey Votto (the most similar complete careers by PA and OPS+:

Player            dWAR   PA OPSRbaser  HR  RBI   BA  OBP  SLG    Pos
Hank Greenberg    
-4.4 6098  158    7.0 331 1274 .313 .412 .605  *37/H
Elmer Flick       
-5.6 6414  149    0.0  48  756 .313 .389 .445 *98/47
Joey Votto        
-5.8 5958  158  -23.0 252  813 .313 .427 .541 *3/H7D
Ralph Kiner      
-10.8 6256  149    0.0 369 1015 .279 .398 .548 *7/83H 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 8/16/2017.

They are all HOF/HOM guys: short careers, because Votto didn't become a regular till 24 and is only 33 now, but great players. (Greenberg is obviously greater, but missed much time to the war.)

Votto's top comps through age 33 are quite a bit more impressive, naturally:

Player         dWAR   PA OPSRbaser  HR  RBI   BA  OBP  SLG        Pos
Honus Wagner    9.5 6241  161   33.0  55 1005 .345 .405 .493 
*6953/8471
Mike Piazza     3.2 5734  154  
-21.0 347 1073 .321 .388 .576     *2/HD3
Joe DiMaggio    2.7 6255  157    9.0 303 1277 .330 .398 .589     
*8/79H
Joey Votto     
-5.8 5958  158  -23.0 252  813 .313 .427 .541     *3/H7D 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 8/16/2017.

I think Votto will sail into the Hall of Merit. Whether the BBWAA finds him as qualified … I think they will, eventually. He has had substantial MVP support and has won that voting once. His OBP is otherworldly, and by the time he's eligible, the six or more OBP titles may be as impressive for the voters as they once found all the batting titles that Carew or Boggs racked up. The only negative might his and his team's postseason record – or rather, a ring and some heroics would be a very nice "kicker" to his record.

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