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Wednesday, June 04, 2014

Baseball icon Don Zimmer dies at 83 | MLB.com

A unique baseball personality passes. The world is not the same.

Jim Furtado Posted: June 04, 2014 at 09:35 PM | 220 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: don zimmer, obituaries

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   101. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:18 PM (#4719880)
There are definitely some fantastic movies/TV shows from that era but a lot of that stuff is not appealing to me. I won't argue quality so much as taste. Just as I find much of the music from that era unenjoyable the movie/TV stuff from those days is often much slower and deliberate than more recent stuff.
   102. Rob_Wood Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:19 PM (#4719882)
Shadow of a Doubt was another Hitchcock film (my all time favorite) that can easily be considered by a modern audience to be boring and slow (nothing really happens at all in the movie).
   103. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:23 PM (#4719886)
Of course, I don't like the new tv shows these days either, since they're more like soap operas now where the plots string along from episode to episode, rather than getting wrapped up by the end of the hour. I watched a couple of the James Spader episodes, starting with the pilot. What was it called.... The Blacklist. It was perfectly fine. (Although Spader's character is a bit too much to take.) But you have to watch the whole series to see what happens with the various plotlines, and I just don't have any interest in doing that. For example, the girl finds some money and a gun in a box that her husband has tucked away in this house. What is he up to.... is there a dark secret in his past... who is he? We have to watch future episodes to find out, and I'm just not that interested in it to do that. I don't want to watch 8 episodes to learn how this plotline resolves itself. But I get that's the way the new shows are structured these days.
   104. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:26 PM (#4719888)
There are definitely some fantastic movies/TV shows from that era but a lot of that stuff is not appealing to me. I won't argue quality so much as taste. Just as I find much of the music from that era unenjoyable the movie/TV stuff from those days is often much slower and deliberate than more recent stuff.

I'm the exact opposite. There are precious few movies of the last 15 years that I like at all.

I think the last movie I saw live in a theatre was Kung Fu Panda. Everytime my wife and I want to go to the movies, we look at what's available and say, "Eh, let's just watch some random 50's Film Noire on NetFlix".
   105. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4719892)

I think the last movie I saw live in a theatre was Kung Fu Panda. Everytime my wife and I want to go to the movies, we look at what's available and say, "Eh, let's just watch some random 50's Film Noire on NetFlix".


Andy? Is that you?
   106. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:33 PM (#4719897)
Andy? Is that you?

hey, Andy can't be wrong about everything ;-)

Seriously though, what are the "Great Movies" made since 2000?

The Lord of the Rings trilogy is probably the best, IMHO.
   107. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4719899)
Seriously though, what are the "Great Movies" made since 2000?


Amelie. Up. The Fountain. Moonrise Kingdom. There Will Be Blood. Das Leben Die Andren. Spirited Away. Pan's Labyrinth.

And maybe not "great" by objective standards but I really loved "Master and Commander" and "Ghost World".

"Lord of the Rings", more like LOLord of the Rings. Femme elves surfing down stairs on shields, wotta mess.
   108. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4719906)
Amelie. Up. The Fountain. Moonrise Kingdom. There Will Be Blood. Das Leben Die Andren. Spirited Away. Pan's Labyrinth.

Up was OK. Amelie, didn't like much at all. I can't stand Daniel Day Lewis's descent into scenery chewing, so I skipped There Will be Blood.

The rest, I've never heard of. Some quick googling and the titles suggest they're all foreign or arthouse films. Not the Hollywood stuff that's going to be in my local multiplex.

Hollywood use to make great, great pictures that were major releases. Now they don't.

There may well be some good arthouse and foreign stuff out there, but if I have to search for it, I'll just watch the old stuff. Also, I don't really like subtitled or dubbed movies; so, foreign films lack appeal.

And maybe not "great" by objective standards but I really loved "Master and Commander" and "Ghost World".

If you liked Master in Commander (OK IMO), you should seek out the Ioan Gruffud Hornblower movies. Much better and very true to the books. C.S. Forester runs rings around Patrick O'Brian as a writer.

   109. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4719907)
Seriously though, what are the "Great Movies" made since 2000?


I'm not particularly artsy. The movies that are considered "great" are often movies that bore me to tears.

Having said that I think it is difficult to identify what are great movies so soon after they have come out. A lot of times things that are deemed great have their greatness demonstrated in their staying power.
   110. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4719910)
Up was OK. Amelie, didn't like much at all. I can't stand Daniel Day Lewis's descent into scenery chewing, so I skipped There Will be Blood.


And instead gushed over "Lord of the Rings." *cough*

The rest, I've never heard of.


Your loss. Frankly I'm amazed that someone who thinks the 10 hours of LOTR represents the epitome of filmmaking from the last 15 years can't find something equally entertaining amongst the spate of super-hero/giant robot/Hobbit-y summertime explode-fests every year.
   111. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:53 PM (#4719913)
And instead gushed over "Lord of the Rings." *cough*

I hardly gushed. "Best" does not equal "Great". It was entertaining fantasy, though all the films to date could have used a good editing down.

Your loss. Frankly I'm amazed that someone who thinks the 10 hours of LOTR represents the epitome of filmmaking from the last 15 years can't find something equally entertaining amongst the spate of super-hero/giant robot/Hobbit-y summertime explode-fests every year.

LOTR and the Hobbit have a real plot and backstory. Much different than comic book tripe.

Still, I find them entertaining, but not "great".

A great movie (I watched just last night) is Cabaret. Also watched "A Face in the Crowd", earlier in the week. Which I hadn't really heard of, but was quite good.
   112. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4719916)
If you liked Master in Commander (OK IMO), you should seek out the Ioan Gruffud Hornblower movies. Much better and very true to the books. C.S. Forester runs rings around Patrick O'Brian as a writer.


Are those the ones that came out about 10 years ago? They were good, not great. Didn't have the budget to do the naval scenes justice. What I liked about Master and Commander was that after reading all of the O'Brien books many years ago I had a fairly firm mental image of Jack Aubrey and I thought Crowe was spot-on. Dr. Maturin wasn't quite there but I didn't mind.
   113. villageidiom Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4719918)
I used to sell posters of the 1978 Yanks-Red Sox playoff program cover, featuring a big mug shot of Zimmer but no mention of the fact that it was the 163rd game and not just a midseason game.
The fact that it's listed as "Third Edition" makes me think that it was just the usual program.
Confirmed. I have that program at home. Not the game-163 version... The one sold in the last 2 months of the season. That's exactly how they did programs back then, basically a magazine issued three times a season, with a scorecard for that game inserted in the middle.

That cover is one of the ugliest souvenirs I have.
   114. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 04:59 PM (#4719919)
Are those the ones that came out about 10 years ago? They were good, not great. Didn't have the budget to do the naval scenes justice. What I liked about Master and Commander was that after reading all of the O'Brien books many years ago I had a fairly firm mental image of Jack Aubrey and I thought Crowe was spot-on. Dr. Maturin wasn't quite there but I didn't mind.

Yes. The frigate was too small to be HMS Indefatigable (a 44), but I thought it was well done. Always loved the books, and I thought they were spot on.

Never could empathize with Aubrey the same way I could with Hornblower. Always struck me as a bit too larger-than-life.
   115. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4719923)
And instead gushed over "Lord of the Rings." *cough*

I hardly gushed. "Best" does not equal "Great".


If you think that's the best thing of the last 15 years you wouldn't know great if it poked your butt with a Morgul blade.

LOTR and the Hobbit have a real plot and backstory. Much different than comic book tripe.


The Nolan "Batman" films have real plot and backstory. Real corny, but when your whole epic 15 hours of whoop-dee-do relies on the ultimate evil invincible warlord of the universe getting his fingers chopped off because he wanted to use the Bionic Claw on a felled enemy you're in a fairly glassified house.
   116. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 05:11 PM (#4719929)
If you think that's the best thing of the last 15 years you wouldn't know great if it poked your butt with a Morgul blade.

And I, likewise, think your taste in films is poor.
   117. Morty Causa Posted: June 05, 2014 at 05:38 PM (#4719958)
Good to discover that snapper and I have finally found common ground: the peerless Hitchcock.

   118. Srul Itza Posted: June 05, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4719959)
Either that or Ed Sullivan, whose show was wildly popular for years while all he did was introduce the acts.


Topo Gigio!
   119. Srul Itza Posted: June 05, 2014 at 05:48 PM (#4719965)
Are you serious, Ray? Please tell me you're not serious?


You're arguing movie criticism with a Robot? Why?

I remember when Vertigo, Rear Window, Rope and another Hitchcock film were re-released in teh 1980's, and were as popular again as they had been when first shown, decades earlier.

   120. Rob_Wood Posted: June 05, 2014 at 05:57 PM (#4719979)
the others were The Man Who Knew Too Much and The Trouble With Harry
   121. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4719986)
Snapper, I won't claim that all of the below movies (2000-2009 era) are "great" per se, but they are good movies that made an impression on me and I enjoyed watching.

"Great" candidates in bold:

Almost Famous, Walk the Line, Proof of Life, Million Dollar Baby, Cast Away, Bourne Identity, O Brother Where Art Thou, Vicky Cristina Barcelona, Road To Perdition, Valkyrie, The Da Vinci Code, Changeling, Match Point, Cinderella Man, Collateral, A History of Violence, The Perfect Storm, Unfaithful, Cold Mountain, Fracture, Eastern Promises, Sideways, The Lake House, Vantage Point.

And I don't think comedies can ever be "great" but the best of that decade to me were:

Hangover
Wedding Crashers
Meet The Parents

----

Do any of the above strike your fancy?
   122. Publius Publicola Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:12 PM (#4719996)
TV from the sixties was so far superior to today's reality crap it's not even funny. You had shows like Twilight Zone, Secret Agent, the Prisoner, Dick Van Dyke, Have Gun, Will Travel, Star Trek, the
Man From U.N.C.L.E., Batman, etc, etc.

What do you have today? Keeping Up With the Kardashians, The Bachelor, American Idol...give me a break.
   123. Publius Publicola Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:18 PM (#4720003)
And look at the movies that were made in the sixties: Lawrence of Arabia, Dr. Strangelove, The Longest Day, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Psycho, Midnight Cowboy, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, the Connery Bond films, The Train, etc, etc. All these films are first-rate. Soem of them are immemorial.

I feel sorry for those here who can't appreciate them.
   124. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4720004)
If you think that's the best thing of the last 15 years you wouldn't know great if it poked your butt with a Morgul blade.

And I, likewise, think your taste in films is poor.


Bah, you admit to not having heard of half the films I listed.

Peter Jackson is a complete hack. I somehow managed to fall asleep during his bastardization of King Kong and both "Hobbit" movies. His obnoxiously overlong mutilation of The Hobbit made me seriously nostalgic for the animated hippy-dippy version from the 70s.
   125. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4720005)
The tragedy of the Master and Commander movie was that they pulled what could have been a really intriguing punch. The central plot of chasing an enemy privateer around Cape Horn came from the 10th book in the series, only in the novel it's not a 1790s fight against the French, it's 1812 and they're chasing an American frigate. Aubrey thinks it's stupid that the Americans and British have gone to war, but he still spends a huge amount of time doing his duty and trying to hunt down the Yanks. American audiences have no trouble identifying with British heroes; it would have been really interesting to see what a smart filmmaker could have done with those British heroes chasing a shipload of Americans.

EDIT: Another tragedy was that Barret Bonden, who in the books was the bare knuckle boxing champion of the Channel Fleet, was playing by Billy Boyd, aka the hobbit Pippin from LOTR.
   126. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4720006)
Give you a break? I'll give you a noogie!

But seriously, folks, TV and movies had its good and bad moments back in the '50s and '60s, and it still the same today.

AFA old movies being boring, I guess if you need lots of bells and whistles to hold your attention, I understand your point. If you can appreciate subtlety, then you might appreciate older movies.
   127. Publius Publicola Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:22 PM (#4720007)
Topo Gigio!


Senor Wences!
   128. Into the Void Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:23 PM (#4720008)
What do you have today? Keeping Up With the Kardashians, The Bachelor, American Idol...give me a break.


The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Deadwood, True Detective, Eastbound and Down, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Simpsons, Seinfeld...
   129. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:27 PM (#4720012)
The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Deadwood, True Detective, Eastbound and Down, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Simpsons, Seinfeld...


All suck except for Seinfeld and Frasier, the only two comedies of the last 20 years that have been worth a damn.

Although I must confess that I dipped into some of Andy Samberg's "Brooklyn Nine" on a recent plane trip and was losing it from that. It's quite funny.
   130. Into the Void Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4720015)
Ah yes, the argument of a true dolt: "I don't like it so it must suck!"
   131. Publius Publicola Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:42 PM (#4720016)
Those are pay channel shows.
   132. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: June 05, 2014 at 06:48 PM (#4720018)
Some were. Some were on regular TV, some were on basic cable.
   133. alilisd Posted: June 05, 2014 at 07:10 PM (#4720028)
Guess I'm too late to the party, but found it interesting Zimmer caught 35 games for the Senators at the end of his career, and pitched 27 innings in the minors at 36 years of age, in 1967. Apparently he was trying to make a comeback after not having played in 1966 and was even trying on the mound! I have only the vaguest of memories of him managing the Padres in the early 70's. Fascinating baseball life! Thanks for all the stories everyone!
   134. dr. scott Posted: June 05, 2014 at 08:26 PM (#4720073)
Those are pay channel shows.


its where much of the good television is.... TV has certainly had a bit of a renaissance when people determined that you could have serials without them being soap operas... that you could sustain a large interested audience with shows that continued the story from one episode to the next. Shows in the 90's tried this a bit with back stories that would build over multiple seasons, but for the most part each episode stood on its own. I cant think of examples of TV from the 70's or 80's that tried this approach much.

edit: apart from the prime time soap operas like Dallas etc...
   135. dr. scott Posted: June 05, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4720075)
All suck except for Seinfeld and Frasier


suck huh... i know that there are people who don't much like shows like The Wire that require a decent amount of attention to appreciate the show, but Ive never heard anyone say it sucks... given your taste in movies over the past 10 years, I find that odd, almost reactionary...
   136. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 05, 2014 at 08:41 PM (#4720080)
TV is at its best right now. As publicist notes there's a ton of crap out there but there is some really terrific stuff. A good tv show can establish characters in a way not possible in a two hour film. Ray mentioned he doesn't like the serial style of TV but I absolutely love it. A show like Lost is just incredible.
   137. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 09:35 PM (#4720105)
Ah yes, the argument of a true dolt: "I don't like it so it must suck!"


Calm down. These are all opinions. About frivolous topics.
   138. Don Malcolm Posted: June 05, 2014 at 09:53 PM (#4720111)
A unique baseball personality passes. The world is not the same.


Sorry, Jimbo, wrong again. Things are just the same here in the little world of BTF. A guy dies--and his thread is hijacked.

But wouldn't you all be surprised to know that Zim's favorite TV show was not Gunsmoke, or I Love Lucy, but one he could truly identify with...

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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Burn Notice.
   139. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:11 PM (#4720145)
Seriously though, what are the "Great Movies" made since 2000?

Obviously it's a small sample size for me, since I'm still catching up with the 20's through the 90's. But off the top of my head I'd go with these 20, with the first 5 in order and no particular order after that:

There Will Be Blood
The Wrestler
Mystic River
City of God
The Lives of Others

Downfall
The Human Stain
The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada
Moneyball
Cinderella Man
Katyn
City By the Sea
Gangs of New York
12 Years a Slave
Proof
Million Dollar Baby
Crash
Sophie Scholl: The Final Days
Letters From Iwo Jima
The Last King of Scotland

I've probably seen about 50 to 100 times as many 20th century movies as 21st century movies, but I think that I'd put nearly all of the above films in my all time top 100. The formula movies of today may be complete crap, but the best movies of today stand up against the ones of any era.

   140. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:22 PM (#4720152)
I'm surprised you like Gangs of New York that much. Of course DDL was magnificent but I came away thinking that and some damn fine settings were about all the movie had going for it. But then I personally have never been smart enough to understand DiCaprio's genius.
   141. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:26 PM (#4720154)
I really enjoyed The Lives of Others. I have little kids now, so I rarely see movies any more in a theater, but that was the last great movie I saw at a theater (2006?).
   142. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:32 PM (#4720158)
I was actually expecting not to like it, but Day-Lewis was his usual great self even if the role wasn't as compelling as his Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood, which IMO may be the best film of the 21st century. I don't know much about DiCaprio other than that I liked him a lot in The Departed, which I'd add to my list and bring it up to the top 21. The only other movie of his I've seen was the mostly forgettable What's Eating Gilbert Grape?
   143. PreservedFish Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4720160)
Television is commonly said to be in a golden age. I think it's true. At no point in its history has the medium attracted and rewarded creative ambition the way it does today.
   144. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:35 PM (#4720161)
I didn't like The Departed either; I watched it after having like 20 different people rave about it and came away distinctly disappointed. The whole thing felt pointless, and--I realize this is old-fashioned of me--I prefer to have a story feature at least one likable character.

Probably the best DiCaprio performance I can remember seeing was Blood Diamond, despite the fact I hated the movie in general.

I'm convinced television, or at least the short-form medium it represents, is in the process of permanently displacing movies, or at least the longer-form medium they represent.

Actually, calling television 'short-form' isn't strictly accurate; with the TV format you get a lot MORE screen time to work with, you just have to cut it into 42-minute chapters. But in today's never-a-moment-to-rest world, most people prefer the TV episode format to the movie format because it demands much less of your time in one go.

The tipping point, probably, will be when Hollywood's biggest stars are working TV rather than movies. That's probably still a long way off yet.
   145. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:40 PM (#4720164)
I really enjoyed The Lives of Others. I have little kids now, so I rarely see movies any more in a theater, but that was the last great movie I saw at a theater (2006?).

That's my wife's favorite movie of all time. She was born in Germany and maybe appreciates it even more for that.
   146. PreservedFish Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:48 PM (#4720168)
I'm convinced television, or at least the short-form medium it represents, is in the process of permanently displacing movies, or at least the longer-form medium they represent.


This will be fascinating to watch over the next couple decades.

I prefer movies to television (at least in theory - I probably watch more of the latter than the former, for exactly the reason you cite, its easily digestible form). I still have a lingering feeling the movies are real art in a way that television is not, that it is the more respectable medium, that film's triumphs are greater than television's. I cannot decide if there is some truth in that judgment or if I'm just being old-fashioned.

I find them so difficult to compare. How do you compare The Godfather to The Wire?
   147. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:50 PM (#4720169)
I didn't like The Departed either; I watched it after having like 20 different people rave about it and came away distinctly disappointed. The whole thing felt pointless, and--I realize this is old-fashioned of me--I prefer to have a story feature at least one likable character.

One of my semi-ongoing projects is to try to watch all 100 movies in George Anastasia's The Ultimate Book of Gangster Movies. (Nicely appropriate name for the author, BTW.) He listed The Departed at #7, and while I wouldn't go that far it would definitely get into my top 100 gangster/noirs. When your taste in movies runs as much to the dark side of life as mine does, I probably should expect to see my share of movies with no really likable characters. I'm sure I'll see The Wolf of Wall Street when it hits the DVD, and I doubt if I'm going to identify with too many people in that movie----give me an honest murderer any day.
   148. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:53 PM (#4720170)
I prefer movies to television (at least in theory - I probably watch more of the latter than the former, for exactly the reason you cite, its easily digestible form). I still have a lingering feeling the movies are real art in a way that television is not, that it is the more respectable medium, that film's triumphs are greater than television's. I cannot decide if there is some truth in that judgment or if I'm just being old-fashioned.

My main problem with TV is that other than TCM or PBS, you're usually stuck between the rock of commercials and the hard place of premium channels, and for me ExtraInnings is about as far as I want to go in that direction.
   149. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 05, 2014 at 11:57 PM (#4720171)
I think the market on TV shows, at least on the high end, is slowly moving toward the space movies already occupy and will eventually displace movies from it: no commercials except entirely optionally at the beginning, the product is sold directly to the viewer at whatever price produces profitability.
   150. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:00 AM (#4720172)
My main problem with TV is that other than TCM or PBS, you're usually stuck between the rock of commercials and the hard place of premium channels, and for me ExtraInnings is about as far as I want to go in that direction.


Newsflash, Andy: It's 2014. The DVR has been invented. Nobody under the age of 45 watches commercials anymore. (Or records movies on VHS tapes, or whatever medium you're using.) I realize you're pushing 70, but if you're with it enough to figure out the internets, you should be with it enough to figure out DVRs and storage drives.
   151. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: June 06, 2014 at 04:31 AM (#4720201)
Seriously though, what are the "Great Movies" made since 2000?


Mulholland Drive, The New World, A.I.: Artificial Intelligence, Drive, The Departed, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, There Will Be Blood, Her, No Country for Old Men, A History of Violence, Inglourious Basterds, The Tree of Life, Werckmeister Harmonies, Spirited Away, A Separation, Killer Joe, No Country for Old Men, In the Mood for Love, It's Such a Beautiful Day, The Rules of Attraction, and Spring Breakers are my favorites. Only a few foreign (Werckmeister Harmonies, In the Mood for Love, Spirited Away), and only a few in which I'd find myself in a minority of critical acclaim (particularly Spring Breakers, but also The Rules of Attraction and possibly A.I. - for which the revisionists have come on fairly strong).

edit: Huh, I see Ray of all people already mentioned A History of Violence, which is way overlooked since it's neither as weird as Cronenberg's most famous films nor as gratifying in its portrayal of violence as the average gangster film (and I have no problem with the average gangster film). But I can't think of a more effective examination of the cognitive dissonance between the uncomfortable reality of violence and the satisfaction it can provide, vicariously or otherwise.
   152. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: June 06, 2014 at 06:14 AM (#4720202)
How the f--- did the thread about Don Zimmer's passing turn into a discussion about tv shows and movies?
   153. BrianBrianson Posted: June 06, 2014 at 07:04 AM (#4720204)
Nobody under the age of 45 watches commercials anymore


Hey! Sometimes we watch live sports. And, err, product placements. And, of course, we watch commercials on bus stops, and gas pumps, and shopping carts, and billboards, and painted on cars, and written on the sky.

But not during television shows or in dreams. No siree!
   154. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 07:18 AM (#4720205)
I'm surprised you like Gangs of New York that much. Of course DDL was magnificent but I came away thinking that and some damn fine settings were about all the movie had going for it. But then I personally have never been smart enough to understand DiCaprio's genius.


I liked the movie but it was hamstrung by a pointless and tacked-on romantic subplot. Because, ya know, gotta give Leo a love interest for the dames.
   155. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 07:47 AM (#4720210)
Cinderella Man


Two votes for this slanderous ahistorical baloney? BAH! Max Baer's carefree, unserious attitude absolutely defined him outside of the ring. That glowering, menacing goon Ron Howard fabricated out of whole cloth wasn't Max Baer. THIS was Max Baer. THIS was Max Baer. "Cinderella Man" was a good enough movie from a technical standpoint but from a historical perspective it would be akin to making the mediocre "Ali" biopic with Joe Frazier cast as a white man to add racial tension.
   156. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 07:50 AM (#4720212)
My main problem with TV is that other than TCM or PBS, you're usually stuck between the rock of commercials and the hard place of premium channels, and for me ExtraInnings is about as far as I want to go in that direction.

Newsflash, Andy: It's 2014. The DVR has been invented. Nobody under the age of 45 watches commercials anymore. (Or records movies on VHS tapes, or whatever medium you're using.) I realize you're pushing 70, but if you're with it enough to figure out the internets, you should be with it enough to figure out DVRs and storage drives.


All that's fine but irrelevant, since (1) DVRs come with a hefty monthly rental surcharge; (2) to get recordings from DVRs onto DVDs requires an extra transfer step; and (3) even the DVRs with the biggest storage capacity couldn't hold the number of movies I've recorded.

Bottom line: Different strokes for different folks. You can enjoy your magnificent collection of sci-fi movies, tennis tournaments, and Frasier reruns on your DVR, and I'll enjoy my collection of DVDs.
   157. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 07:58 AM (#4720213)
Cinderella Man

Two votes for this slanderous ahistorical baloney?


Yeah, in spite of the historical butchering of Baer's character, of which I was quickly made aware by my former shop manager about ten minutes after I got back from the movie theater. I try not to mistake biopics for serious history, and Russell Crowe was terrific.

BTW I'm sure you've seen it, but I'd also recommend The Prizefighter and the Lady, a 1931 movie with Baer and Myrna Loy as romantic leads and Primo Carnera and Jack Dempsey in important supporting roles. You can fill in the history of the film and how much it corresponded to future events.
   158. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 07:59 AM (#4720214)
BTW I'm sure you've seen it, but I'd also recommend The Prizefighter and the Lady, a 1931 movie with Baer and Myrna Loy as romantic leads and Primo Carnera and Jack Dempsey in important supporting roles.


Oh I'm well aware of it. Baer's big musical number was the first link in the post above :)

Baer and Jack Dempsey were actually quite friendly, especially during Baer's rise to the championship. I have a clip of film with Jack and Maxie in Max's training camp just prior to the Carnera championship fight that highlight Baer's comedic nature as well as the magnificent condition he whipped himself into for that fight. Dempsey eventually grew fed up with Baer's lackadaisical approach to fighting (Dempsey being, of course, the ferocious single-minded killer in the ring) and said on several occasions that Baer was the most physically gifted heavyweight he'd ever seen, but had no real desire to fight.

I'll upload the clip to YouTube tonight if I can find it.
   159. Lassus Posted: June 06, 2014 at 08:07 AM (#4720215)
Two votes for this slanderous ahistorical baloney?

In the slanderous ahistorical baloney championship bout, Immortal Beloved knocks out Cinderalla Man before the latter even stands up in its corner. Perhaps on the walk to the ring.
   160. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 08:48 AM (#4720231)
Never saw it, but if what you say is true I expect to see Beethoven playing "Great Balls of Fire" while the audience does The Wave, knocking their wigs askew.
   161. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:02 AM (#4720245)
All that's fine but irrelevant, since (1) DVRs come with a hefty monthly rental surcharge; (2) to get recordings from DVRs onto DVDs requires an extra transfer step; and (3) even the DVRs with the biggest storage capacity couldn't hold the number of movies I've recorded.


2TB external hard drives, $90. Compact, portable, holds well over 100 HD movies and in the case of your musty old standard-definition films, over 1000. I plug mine into my BluRay player.
   162. Publius Publicola Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:23 AM (#4720255)
That glowering, menacing goon Ron Howard fabricated out of whole cloth wasn't Max Baer.


That waas my reaction too, YR. I was kind of irritated Howard invented his version of Baer to create a narrative and was was completely devoid of historical reality. It was just as bad as Tracy's Edison being portrayed as a button-down family man.
   163. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:27 AM (#4720258)
I'm sorry but this whole Max Baer/Cinderella Man things gets my dander up.

Watch this clip of Baer goofing off, and then at 1:05 he specifically starts talking about defending his title against Jimmy Braddock. THIS is the real Max Baer talking about the real Jim Braddock in real-time immediately before the fight.
   164. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:32 AM (#4720261)
That's one of the reasons I usually don't like biopics and haven't seen 42. I find myself spending too much time wondering how much is real and how much is either exaggerated or flat out invented to tell the story.

What gets me is that a lot of times the movies don't need to take such liberties to make an interesting story. As often as not the story is compelling enough on its own (which is why they are making a movie about it) to let the events unfold.
   165. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:33 AM (#4720262)
I was actually expecting not to like it, but Day-Lewis was his usual great self even if the role wasn't as compelling as his Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood, which IMO may be the best film of the 21st century. I don't know much about DiCaprio other than that I liked him a lot in The Departed, which I'd add to my list and bring it up to the top 21. The only other movie of his I've seen was the mostly forgettable What's Eating Gilbert Grape?

I don't at all get what people love about Daniel Day-Lewis's way over the top performance in that movie. I liked his earlier work. But his recent turn has puzzled me.

It's like Brando, who I can't stand (outside of the Godfather). We don't need to be able to tell you're trying really hard to act.

I also thought The Departed was crap. The whole plot made very little sense, and, again, everyone was over-acting.
   166. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:40 AM (#4720265)
All that's fine but irrelevant, since (1) DVRs come with a hefty monthly rental surcharge; (2) to get recordings from DVRs onto DVDs requires an extra transfer step; and (3) even the DVRs with the biggest storage capacity couldn't hold the number of movies I've recorded.

2TB external hard drives, $90. Compact, portable, holds well over 100 HD movies and in the case of your musty old standard-definition films, over 1000. I plug mine into my BluRay player.


Which means that I'd already be on my fourth one, and I've been recording for less than five years. Let me know when the capacity reaches about 10,000. As I said, different strokes for different folks.

Nice Baer clip, though I still like Cinderella Man for other reasons.

   167. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4720274)
That's one of the reasons I usually don't like biopics and haven't seen 42. I find myself spending too much time wondering how much is real and how much is either exaggerated or flat out invented to tell the story.

I agree with your jaundiced view of biopics, and I usually avoid them for the same reason, but there are always a few exceptions. 42 was another one.

What gets me is that a lot of times the movies don't need to take such liberties to make an interesting story. As often as not the story is compelling enough on its own (which is why they are making a movie about it) to let the events unfold.

I completely agree with that point, but this is the same Hollywood that's given us travesties like Mississippi Burning, with contextual distortions that make Cinderella Man and 42 seem like documentaries by comparison.

And it could be worse. Bad as some biopics from the past 20 years have been, for the most part they're still light years better than the hagiographies that were churned out during the B&W era. Saccharine sentimentalism and whitewashing of history wasn't just invented yesterday.
   168. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:53 AM (#4720276)
Which means that I'd already be on my fourth one,


You could probably fit 10 of these in a shoebox. How much space is your current storage technology taking up?

Let me know when the capacity reaches about 10,000.


5TB drive, $200. That's enough for about 4950 1GB movies, and I will bet you dollars to donuts that your 1940s SD movies are probably close to half that size. The future is now!

Nice Baer clip, though I still like Cinderella Man for other reasons.


Oh yeah, I liked lots of things about it, the costumes and the sets and lots of what Russell Crowe did. It's just hard to get past the really overt dishonesty they thought they needed to make the conflict relatable. It wasn't even a case where they just shaded Baer's complex character - the guy was a legitimate goofball who was seriously frightened of killing another man in the ring and would NEVER have made the sort of dark threats depicted in the movie. It wasn't just ahistorical, it was dishonestly and slanderously ahistorical.
   169. Lassus Posted: June 06, 2014 at 09:54 AM (#4720278)
Never saw it, but if what you say is true I expect to see Beethoven playing "Great Balls of Fire" while the audience does The Wave, knocking their wigs askew.

A half-dozen "immortal beloveds" from a dozen or so possibles and a 9th symphony composed because he was abused by his father is close enough.
   170. tfbg9 Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:03 AM (#4720282)
The 2 greatest films of all time are:

Hardcore - starring George C. Scott.

The Friends of Eddie Coyle - starring Bob Mitchum.

As for Don Zimmer, I remember reading somewhere that he would piss off his players sometimes by insisting the team's travel schedule be tweaked to accommodate his off-day outings to road cities' race tracks.
   171. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:17 AM (#4720286)
I believe that, tfbg9. He was often seen at Wonderland Dog Track when the team was at home.

(Zimmer lived in Burlington, MA. for a while, in the '70's, while he worked for the Red Sox. He had a little co-op apartment in a development I lived in, (after he left)).
   172. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4720291)
Which means that I'd already be on my fourth one,

You could probably fit 10 of these in a shoebox. How much space is your current storage technology taking up?


About one third of one small linen closet in a fairly large four bedroom house. BFD.

And BTW how much time would it take to transfer my current collection of DVDs onto that 5TB drive you're recommending?

Nice Baer clip, though I still like Cinderella Man for other reasons.

Oh yeah, I liked lots of things about it, the costumes and the sets and lots of what Russell Crowe did. It's just hard to get past the really overt dishonesty they thought they needed to make the conflict relatable. It wasn't even a case where they just shaded Baer's complex character - the guy was a legitimate goofball who was seriously frightened of killing another man in the ring and would NEVER have made the sort of dark threats depicted in the movie. It wasn't just ahistorical, it was dishonestly and slanderously ahistorical.


I think the difference in our reactions is that you came to the movie with much more knowledge of Baer's true character than I did. When I was watching the movie, I was more interested in the way that Crowe portrayed the resurrection of Braddock than the way that Baer was presented as a stock villain. Your reaction to Cinderella Man reminds me of the way I came out of Mississippi Burning almost ready to burn down the theater, while my wife, who was only four years old at the time of the actual murders, was much more sanguine about the historical misrepresentations and concentrated on the drama depicted on the screen. The generic point is that the more you're aware of the actual facts surrounding a movie based on history or biography, the more likely you're apt to be critical of the movie's factual shortcomings.
   173. Morty Causa Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:21 AM (#4720293)
When it comes to biopics and histories, and just general historical accuracies, Hollywood has always followed Irving Thalberg's dictum: "We can't cater to a handful of people who know Paris." History is always just mere fodder for art--whether pop art or "high" art. That applies to Homer, Shakespeare, and D. W. Griffith. And, in turn, according to none other than Orson Welles, Shakespeare should not be treated with any more respect than that which he himself gave to history.

Having said that, Young Winston was a fine biopic. El Cid is a great movie. Does The Ten Commandments count as a biopic?

Oh, and to those lamenting that we've veered from paying respects to Zimmer, this guy got more posts than either Stan Musial or Earl Weaver, or a whole hosts of others who recently died.
   174. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4720303)
Having said that, Young Winston was a fine biopic. El Cid is a great movie. Does The Ten Commandments count as a biopic?

Lawrence of Arabia, Patton.
   175. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:54 AM (#4720320)
When it comes to biopics and histories, and just general historical accuracies, Hollywood has always followed Irving Thalberg's dictum: "We can't cater to a handful of people who know Paris."

That's perfectly understandable from a business POV, since "people who know Paris" will always form a minority of the target audience for any given movie, but you also can't blame people who do know something about "Paris" for pointing out the BS for the record.

History is always just mere fodder for art--whether pop art or "high" art. That applies to Homer, Shakespeare, and D. W. Griffith. And, in turn, according to none other than Orson Welles, Shakespeare should not be treated with any more respect than that which he himself gave to history.

No argument there, just so long as you don't substitute movies for history books, which many moviegoers are often apt to do.
   176. kthejoker Posted: June 06, 2014 at 10:57 AM (#4720324)
Just limiting myself to movies that grossed over $200 million in the 2000s (so definitely crowd-pleasers), the "great" movies of the 2000s are

Frozen
Lego Movie
Spiderman 2
The Avengers
The Dark Knight
Inception
Gravity
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl
Skyfall
The Incredibles
Finding Nemo
Toy Story 3
Monsters, Inc.
WALL-E
Night at the Museum
Lord of the Rings 1 and 2
<strike>Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel</strike>

So basically a lot of kid-friendly action-packed sci-fi/fantasy fare.

What's funny is the movies in this sort of wheelhouse was particularly barren until Star Wars: look at the top 47 grossing movies from 1950 to 1976

http://www.imdb.com/search/title?boxoffice_gross_us=37000000,&release_date=1950,1976&sort=boxoffice_gross_us,desc&title_type=feature

Lots of prestige pictures, it really shows you the power distributors and producers had back then.

And almost completely devoid of sci-fi/fantasy (King Kong in 1976 right at the end of the filter, and 2001, though I think a lot of the box office is in re-releases.)




   177. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:07 AM (#4720334)
When it comes to biopics and histories, and just general historical accuracies, Hollywood has always followed Irving Thalberg's dictum: "We can't cater to a handful of people who know Paris."


From my vantage point as a boxing historian my concern wasn't so much overall accuracy - I wouldn't care if they made Braddock a blonde, or used the wrong gloves, or whatever. I object only to the very insulting and inaccurate way they portrayed a real person, and again not in a "Hitler was a wonderful dancer" sort of way, but in a truly dishonest and hurtful depiction that had no real basis in reality.
   178. Spahn Insane Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:17 AM (#4720338)
The Lives of Others

That's my wife's favorite movie of all time. She was born in Germany and maybe appreciates it even more for that.

That's a great movie indeed. I need to rewatch it, though, having recently visited the Stasi museum in Berlin. I imagine I'll appreciate it even more now.
   179. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:34 AM (#4720346)
The only other movie of his I've seen was the mostly forgettable What's Eating Gilbert Grape?


Please, sir -- you're insulting the home movie of my youth.

Sort of. If leavened with Sling Blade.

Pretty much.
   180. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:38 AM (#4720348)
Cinderella Man should be properly viewed as fiction, YR.
   181. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:41 AM (#4720349)
That waas my reaction too, YR. I was kind of irritated Howard invented his version of Baer to create a narrative and was was completely devoid of historical reality. It was just as bad as Tracy's Edison being portrayed as a button-down family man.


Welcome to movies.
   182. Dale Sams Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:42 AM (#4720350)
I think there was a mini-golden age of movies, probably from Shawshank Redemption to Gladiator. Yes I know that will elicit groans, I'm not saying Gladiator is the greatest ever, but Harris and Oliver Reed require no defense.

But like Snapper, I haven't seen #### in the theatre in the last several years. In the last 10 years or so, it's been the Tenacious D movie, that Will Ferrell-Zach whassisname movie, the two Hobbit movies....and I think that's it. Between a ton of commercials, cell-phones, people talking loudly, and having a great system at home...why should I go see a movie?

And I agree on TV nowadays also. And no, this isn't get off my lawn. My biggest beef is the death of the character actor. Him/her being replaced with former models. Example: The Night Stalker remake that lasted 1/2 a season.
   183. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 11:58 AM (#4720360)
I think there was a mini-golden age of movies worldwide, probably from Shawshank Redemption Laura to Gladiator All About Eve. Yes I know that will elicit groans cheers...

FIFY (smile)
   184. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4720364)
I don't at all get what people love about Daniel Day-Lewis's way over the top performance in that movie. I liked his earlier work. But his recent turn has puzzled me.

It's like Brando, who I can't stand (outside of the Godfather). We don't need to be able to tell you're trying really hard to act.


Agreed on all points (except that Brando was harmless in Superman and in The Score).

Daniel Day-Lewis is tough to take. I've stopped watching his movies.
   185. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4720367)
2TB external hard drives, $90. Compact, portable, holds well over 100 HD movies and in the case of your musty old standard-definition films, over 1000. I plug mine into my BluRay player.

Which means that I'd already be on my fourth one, and I've been recording for less than five years. Let me know when the capacity reaches about 10,000. As I said, different strokes for different folks.


How is VHS tapes better than the above system?
   186. Morty Causa Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4720369)
Lawrence of Arabia, Patton.

Two great movies in my estimation also, but they also were criticized by some for their respective takes on the personages, including the protagonists.

   187. Morty Causa Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:07 PM (#4720372)
No argument there, just so long as you don't substitute movies for history books, which many moviegoers are often apt to do.

And many schools and teachers.
   188. Dale Sams Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:09 PM (#4720373)
I also *get* the slowness talked about in pre-70's movies. Hey, I love slow movies, but I get it. I watched Birdman of Alcatraz the other day. Holy crap. Three hours of orthinology. I liked it, but it may not be for everyone.

As for Brando, On the Waterfront?? I thought the appeal of Brando was he *didn't* appear to be trying really hard.
   189. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:14 PM (#4720377)
As for Brando, On the Waterfront?? I thought the appeal of Brando was he *didn't* appear to be trying really hard.

Liked the movie, thought Brando was the weakest part. I can't stand "emoting".
   190. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:19 PM (#4720380)
Cinderella Man should be properly viewed as fiction, YR.


Aside from the inaccurate depiction of Baer it was a reasonably appropriate depiction of Braddock during that period. The back-story was correct, they dropped all the right names of boxing luminaries during that period, and the equipment and training methods used were period-appropriate. The did a very good job of telling us Braddock's story with some fidelity, but that attention to detail didn't extend to Max Baer.

Braddock's unlikely ascendancy to heavyweight champion was remarkable enough as it is, but I do understand the thematic need to create this additional tension by building up Baer as a monster. I just don't think they needed to besmirch Baer's character to do so. It's a simple fact that Max Baer killed Frankie Campbell (brother of Brooklyn Dodger Dolph Camelli in case you didn't know) in the ring. While Baer shouldn't really be held responsible for the death of boxer Ernie Schaaf, it's a simple fact that he was indeed charged with manslaughter after Schaaf died. It was widely spoken in boxing circles that Baer had the most powerful single punch perhaps in the history of the sport. Why couldn't this be enough? You could make Baer ominous without making him Clubber Lang.
   191. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:21 PM (#4720382)
2TB external hard drives, $90. Compact, portable, holds well over 100 HD movies and in the case of your musty old standard-definition films, over 1000. I plug mine into my BluRay player.

Which means that I'd already be on my fourth one, and I've been recording for less than five years. Let me know when the capacity reaches about 10,000. As I said, different strokes for different folks.


How is VHS tapes better than the above system?


First, my collection is 100% DVDs, not VHS tapes. There is a difference, just as there's a difference between the cars made in the 2000's and the cars made in the 70's.

Second, since I've already got over 3000 feature length movies on DVD, plus many hundred shorts, how much time would it take to transfer them onto either that system or the one that YR mentioned after that? Whatever the answer to that might be, it's more time than I care to devote to it.

Third, the monthly charge for those DVR boxes runs $20 on Verizon. What's the point, unless your sole objective is to save a relatively tiny amount of storage space in a closet? That may be a problem for someone living in a one bedroom apartment, but not for someone in a four bedroom house. The next thing you'll be telling me is that I should convert my 8000+ books onto Kindle.

   192. Dale Sams Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:21 PM (#4720383)
Re: Cinderella Man

There are movies that don't pretend to be anything but fiction that are unfairly attacked for details like "U-571" and there are historical movies with an agenda like "The Hurricane" where, quite rightly, the producers had to pay off Joey Giardello for libeling him.
   193. Dale Sams Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:29 PM (#4720392)
And to touch back on TV and character actors. Two of the greatest series in recent history, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad did very well with non-attractive leads. It can work.

...and then there's Walking Dead, where aside from a few guys, apparently a pre-requisite of survival is impossibly high cheekbones.
   194. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4720394)
Aside from the inaccurate depiction of Baer it was a reasonably appropriate depiction of Braddock during that period. The back-story was correct, they dropped all the right names of boxing luminaries during that period, and the equipment and training methods used were period-appropriate. The did a very good job of telling us Braddock's story with some fidelity, but that attention to detail didn't extend to Max Baer.

Braddock's unlikely ascendancy to heavyweight champion was remarkable enough as it is, but I do understand the thematic need to create this additional tension by building up Baer as a monster. I just don't think they needed to besmirch Baer's character to do so. It's a simple fact that Max Baer killed Frankie Campbell (brother of Brooklyn Dodger Dolph Camelli in case you didn't know) in the ring. While Baer shouldn't really be held responsible for the death of boxer Ernie Schaaf, it's a simple fact that he was indeed charged with manslaughter after Schaaf died. It was widely spoken in boxing circles that Baer had the most powerful single punch perhaps in the history of the sport. Why couldn't this be enough? You could make Baer ominous without making him Clubber Lang.


OTOH it could have been worse. At least they didn't put a crucifix on Braddock's trunks.
   195. Morty Causa Posted: June 06, 2014 at 12:56 PM (#4720421)
Cinderella Man should be properly viewed as fiction, YR.

True, but there is a definite cachet in it seeming to be a true account.

And didn't Ron Howard do the same thing with A Beautiful Mind?

I think John Ford in his westerns intentionally brings to mind historical resonances, that he uses for his own purposes, but he never makes the descent (or usually doesn't, The Long Gray Line being an exception, The Prisoner of Shark Island, a few others, being exceptions). The Errol Flynn movie about Custer, They Died With Their Boots On, is a fine, entertaining romantic epic. Just make sure you don't see it in tandem with Ford's masterpiece of a Custer movie, Fort Apache, which doesn't pretend to be a biopic at all.

I guess there's a spectrum when it comes to movies that pretend to be historically accurate. There's The Longest Day or Sergeant York, or Patton and Lawrence of Arabia, which take some pains and make great efforts at accuracy, while having a thesis to propound, and you can work your way up from there to movies that are fictional except for the outright admission, like They Died With Their Boots On or Night and Day, movies that take so many liberties with history that they can be called whitewashes.
   196. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: June 06, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4720433)
I guess there's a spectrum when it comes to movies that pretend to be historically accurate. There's The Longest Day or Sergeant York, or Patton and Lawrence of Arabia, which take some pains and make great efforts at accuracy, while having a thesis to propound, and you can work your way up from there to movies that are fictional except for the outright admission, like They Died With Their Boots On or Night and Day, movies that take so many liberties with history that they can be called whitewashes.

And then there are movies that from all accounts succeed on all accounts, like Letters From Iwo Jima and Come and See, or at least keep the distortions to a bare minimum.
   197. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: June 06, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4720457)
Television is commonly said to be in a golden age. I think it's true. At no point in its history has the medium attracted and rewarded creative ambition the way it does today.

This is absolutely true for documentary movies in 2014: the combination of cheap, light, quality equipment and more sources of funding (Kickstarter, etc.) has meant that more great docs are getting made now than ever before; the Internet means these movies are accessible to more people than ever before. I've just come off a month of well-programmed festival screenings (the SF Int'l Film Fest & the Green Film Fest), and am about to start another binge (Documentary Film Fest), and I feel really fortunate to have the opportunity.
   198. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 06, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4720555)
People have already listed a bunch of great movies that have come out since 2000, but I also want to give some love to some documentaries that have come out since then:

Murderball
Bowling for Columbine
Inside Job
The Fog of War
Enron : The Smartest Guys in the Room
Sicko


There are also many others that have come out that I haven't had a chance to watch or forgot about.
Inside Job and The Fog of War were my favourites of the ones above.


   199. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 04:18 PM (#4720573)
Third, the monthly charge for those DVR boxes runs $20 on Verizon. What's the point, unless your sole objective is to save a relatively tiny amount of storage space in a closet?


Hmm. I thought the monthly charge was like $8.95 or something. Regardless, you can purchase DVRs (e.g., Tivo)
   200. Ray (RDP) Posted: June 06, 2014 at 04:19 PM (#4720575)
Re: Cinderella Man

There are movies that don't pretend to be anything but fiction that are unfairly attacked for details like "U-571" and there are historical movies with an agenda like "The Hurricane" where, quite rightly, the producers had to pay off Joey Giardello for libeling him.


Well, they'd have had to pay of Baer too, if he were alive. But you can't defame a dead man, so they were off the hook.
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