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Friday, January 29, 2010

BaseballTwit: Beyond WAR: Using WAR per PA and Wins Above Excellence to Rank Catchers

1-2-3-4, I declare a catcher WAR!

You would expect Johnny Bench (4.99), Mike Piazza (4.61), Gary Carter (4.47), Yogi Berra (4.45), Ivan Rodriguez (4.16), and Carlton Fisk (4.15) to rank highly. After all, they are the top six in career WAR for catchers (just in a different order). However, in WAR/600 PA there are quite a few players sprinkled in between them.

Four players actually rank higher than Bench. Joe Mauer (6.71) is far and away the best, though he has less than 3000 career at bats and has yet to experience a decline. The truth is, though, that he’s probably going to wind up as the best catcher ever. Hall of Famer Buck Ewing follows Mauer at 5.39. He played in the 19th century with shorter schedules and therefore compiled “only” 5764 plate appearances.

Next is an interesting one—Gene Tenace. Tenace doesn’t have overwhelming traditional stats (.241, 201 HR, 674 RBI), but his WAR (48.6) is impressive and his WAR/600 PA (5.34) is even more impressive. Hall of Famer Mickey Cochrane (5.07) ranks right after Tenace and before Bench.

So Taguchi is My Sensei Posted: January 29, 2010 at 11:15 PM | 3 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history

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   1. jonas Posted: January 30, 2010 at 04:18 AM (#3450411)
I think the only list Ivan Rodriguez goes above Yogi Berra on is the 'biggest change in collar size among catchers following the introduction of steroid testing' ranking.
   2. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: January 30, 2010 at 04:55 AM (#3450421)
The truth is, though, that he’s probably going to wind up as the best catcher ever.


Waaaay too early to be saying this. Catchers have an extremely high attrition rate -- not as high as pitchers, but high. Jason Kendall looked like a future Hall of Famer at Mauer's age; he had just two seasons left at that level after an injury killed his power and speed. Thurman Munson's career ended for other reasons, but in the two years before that -- at 30 and 31 -- his production had cratered to the point that he was no longer a star. (He was still an above-average hitter for position; I've no idea how his defense was.) On Mauer's B-R comps list is Frankie Hayes, whose star faded at 27 and who was done at 32. Campy was cooked long before his tragic accident. This is a pattern among catchers of all stripes.

Of course there are counter-examples like Berra and Posada, who remained stars into their late 30s, and Bench, who was still a great hitter at 33. Not to mention Carlton Fisk. But I wouldn't be making any bets on Mauer winning the Greatest Catcher of All Time derby. Here are the scenarios I see, in descending order of likelihood:

1. In his early 30s, after a series of small dings costs him playing time, he is shifted to 3B or the outfield, and remains a very good player for several years afterward.
2. He remains at catcher but his playing time tails off in his 30s to the point that it's a bit of a stretch to call him a regular.
3. He remains at catcher but his production sags in his early 30s and he's no longer the huge star he is today.
4. He remains at catcher into his mid-30s and breezes past Bench and Piazza and Berra to become the greatest catcher of all time.
5. Nightmare scenario: He Kendalls out.
6. He cures AIDS, balances the budget and ends the Iranian nuclear program, all before 40. Also continues to play baseball.
   3. adarowski Posted: January 31, 2010 at 02:32 AM (#3450886)
@Voxter

Yeah... the comment was probably a bit premature. Mauer is starting at SUCH a high level, though (higher than Kendall & Munson... and really anyone ever) that he'd have to come a LONG way down. Sure, that can happen. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "probably", but otherwise I like the track he's on.

-adam/baseballtwit

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