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Friday, January 10, 2014

BBWAA: 2014 Hall of Fame Ballots

Corky Simpson can sorta relax.

Lawrence Rocca - Honorary - Morris, Nomo, Raines, Trammell

Repoz Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:08 PM | 43 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

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   1. John Northey Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:38 PM (#4635836)
Oh my. Rocca's sure jumps out quickly. Just 142 entries so not as big as the Repoz list.

The 2 with 3 votes: Maddux & Thomas on both, Glavine on one, Morris on the other.
For the 8 with 4 votes we see Smith twice, Glavine/Thomas/Maddux often, Raines twice, but Biggio just once or as often as we see Nomo and Trammell and McGriff. Morris is a double as well.

I think it is safe to say if a writer put 4 or fewer names then odds were they did a very poor job identifying the best 3 or 4 players.
   2. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4635838)
If we start passing the hat now, could Deadspin buy everyone's vote next year?
   3. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:39 PM (#4635839)
By my count, 97 of the 142 ballots shown there were full. That's more than two-thirds (68.3%).
   4. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:45 PM (#4635843)
I'm not sure the categories quite represent what I think they do but;

28 of 49 "honorary" ballots were full (57%)

69 of 93 of the remaining ballots were full (74%)

I recognize enough names in the honorary list to know that these folks aren't unemployed or retired but that seems like "something" I just don't know what.
   5. JRVJ Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:48 PM (#4635847)
(1) Bruce Jenkins, (2) Danny Knobbler, (3) Mike Shalin, (4) Peter Botte, (5) John Black, (6) Bill Griffith, (7) Joe Christensen, (8) Mike Vaccaro and (9) Gordon Edes, voted for 10 players, including Morris, but not for Biggio.
   6. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:48 PM (#4635848)
And if I did my search right none of the 142 had the same ballot as Dan LeBatard.
   7. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4635850)
Nomo in America by Lawrence Rocca. (Amazon link)
   8. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4635852)
So we now know two of the sixteen people who left off Maddux, and one of the six who voted for Nomo.

We still don't know who cast the votes for Moises Alou, JT Snow, Armando Benitez, or Jacque Jones...
   9. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 10, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4635854)
None of the eight man ballots match my personal eight man ballot exactly. Disappointing. I guess the closest would be Ken Daley who left Trammell off in favor Edgar (eh) or Bob Hohler who picked Schilling over Tram.

No new pen pal for me.
   10. Danny Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:00 PM (#4635862)
Ken Davidoff is the only one of the 142 that matches my "personal" ballot: Bagwell Bonds Clemens Glavine Maddux Mussina Piazza Schilling Thomas Walker

A few (IMHO) surprising notes:

Of the 61 ballots that have Bonds, only 40 of them have Bagwell. Of the 13 ballots that have McGwire, only 6 have Bagwell. Of the seven ballots that had Sosa, only 1 had Bagwell. There would appear to be a lot of voters that don't use suspicion of PEDs as a disqualifier (not to suggest there's any real reason to suspect that Bagwell used) who still didn't vote for Bagwell.

The three people who had Bonds and not Clemens: Barry Rozner, Chicago Daily Herald; William Center, San Diego Union-Tribune; Richard Griffin, Toronto Star.

The person who had Clemens and not Bonds: Peter Abraham, Boston Globe.

Of the 7 ballots that left off Glavine, four had 4 names or fewer:
Steven Marcus Newsday Maddux Morris Thomas
Lawrence Rocca Honorary Morris Nomo Raines Trammell
Ann Killion San Francisco Chronicle Maddux Raines Smith Thomas
Joseph E. Hoppel honorary Bagwell Maddux Piazza Schilling


Of the 142 published ballots, 97 (68.3%) used all 10 slots. All of the ballots that named Walker, Sosa, and Palmeiro used all 10 slots

Of the seven Sosa ballots, 6 have Bonds and Clemens. All 6 of the Palmeiro ballots have Bonds and Clemens.

Of the 77 Morris ballots, only 17 had Mussina. Bonds was on 39% of Morris ballots, which is slightly higher than his overall 35%.

35 ballots had Schilling but not Mussina, while only 10 ballots had Mussina but not Schilling.
   11. jdennis Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:07 PM (#4635869)
Comforting to know that Nomo was clean I guess
   12. DL from MN Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:25 PM (#4635884)
Piazza should be the focus for lobbying efforts. Get Biggio and Piazza elected and Bagwell and Raines will float to the top. There is a list of people who didn't vote for Piazza and he needs to gain 75 votes. Who are the most obvious voters (not scared of PEDs, didn't have Piazza on ballot) to go after?
   13. Jim Wisinski Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4635890)
#4, they're "Lifetime Honorary" members, people who no longer work in the business and therefore are non-current BBWAA members. When their membership lapses they can pay a fee to gain that status and retain their Hall vote, plus they get a fancy gold card which allows them entry into any ballpark as a member of the press.
   14. Ray K Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:41 PM (#4635897)
I think it is safe to say if a writer put 4 or fewer names then odds were they did a very poor job identifying the best 3 or 4 players.


Agreed. This is probably a bigger reason why Biggio fell short, not because of a handful of voters with full ballots.

Of the 61 ballots that have Bonds, only 40 of them have Bagwell. Of the 13 ballots that have McGwire, only 6 have Bagwell. Of the seven ballots that had Sosa, only 1 had Bagwell. There would appear to be a lot of voters that don't use suspicion of PEDs as a disqualifier (not to suggest there's any real reason to suspect that Bagwell used) who still didn't vote for Bagwell.


If steroids are considered acceptable use, then Bagwell's HOF induction crime is hurting his team by stopping at Andro.
   15. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4635903)
Ladies and gentlemen, the two best starting pitchers on the 2014 ballot: Jack Morris and Hideo Nomo.
   16. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4635907)
I really shouldn't lump Moises Alou in with the rest of the joke candidates.
   17. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:00 PM (#4635909)
Moises Alou: One of ten players in baseball history with a .300 batting average, 300 homers, and 100 steals!

Alou and Larry Walker are the only ones eligible for the Hall of Fame who haven't been elected yet. It's a travesty!
   18. The District Attorney Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:09 PM (#4635911)
Credit to Joe Posnanski for noticing that only four players in baseball history have 350 homeruns, 1400 RBI, 575 doubles and 100 steals: Hank Aaron, Carl Yastrzemski, Barry Bonds, and Luis Gonzalez.

(Gonzalez is actually the only player ever to have all of those plus 100 HBP. But that'd just be cherry-picking.)
   19. Guapo Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4635914)
Rocca speaks!

Anyone who played the bulk of his career during the Steroids Era, I am snubbing. Nomo gets a waiver because of his time in Japan, the trail he blazed, and my (possibly naive) belief that he did not use. Certainly, he could not have influenced MLBPA leadership to take a harder stance against steroids, whereas Maddux, Glavine et al had huge standing in the game and in the union. And there is no evidence, as far as I know, that they made any serious effort along those lines. GUILTY!


From http://fansided.com/2014/01/10/honorary-bbwaa-member-larry-rocca-clarifies-ballot/
   20. McCoy Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:21 PM (#4635917)
And yet he didn't vote for Frank Thomas?
   21. SoCalDemon Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:22 PM (#4635918)
Re 10: By traditional stats, Bagwell looks very meh compared to a lot of guys. .297 (he's not a .300 hitter), 449 HR (didnt get 500, fewer than McGriff, playing in the Steroid Era for pete's sake), barely over 1500 ribbies, only 2314 hits (500 fewer than Omar Vizquel). I think even for guys that think he's clean as a whistle, there's just not enough there there*.

*I think he's in actuality an easy choice, but what percentage of BBWAA writers do nothing but look at that avg/hr/rbi career line? I bet its at least a few.
   22. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:23 PM (#4635920)
4 shortstops in Major League history have 150 homers and 200 steals and at least once led the league in assists. 2 (Robin Yount and Barry Larkin) are already in the Hall of Fame; a third (Derek Jeter) will join them when he retires. Who's the odd man out?

Shawon Dunston.
   23. JJ1986 Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:26 PM (#4635922)
Even if you give Nomo a pass for pitching in the "steroid era," you have to also give him a pass for not being nearly good enough to be a HoFer.
   24. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:29 PM (#4635923)
To people who think forcing all voters to make their ballots public might change anything...yeah, not seeing it. We'd just get more stupid columns like Rocca's.
   25. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4635924)
Curious why, given Rocca's reasoning, Tim Raines didn't get a vote. The cocaine?
   26. Flynn Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4635925)
Ann Killion consistently submits one of the worst ballots in the Hall and I am flummoxed as to how she has a vote. She hardly ever writes about baseball and has never covered a team regularly.

I was hoping to see who voted for Gagne, but they don't seem to have allowed their ballot to be made public. I would expect two French-Canadian writers.
   27. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4635927)
Certainly, he could not have influenced MLBPA leadership to take a harder stance against steroids
Because...he....couldn't speak English?
   28. Fog City Blues Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:47 PM (#4635935)
25: He did vote for Raines.

So, presumably his 2015 ballot will be: Raines, Trammell? At least Gurnick says he'll stop voting.
   29. DL from MN Posted: January 10, 2014 at 04:52 PM (#4635941)
I'd take a Raines, Trammell ballot. Those two are legitimate guys who need to see their numerator go up.
   30. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4635950)
28--Ah. I can't read.
   31. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4635955)
4 shortstops in Major League history have 150 homers and 200 steals and at least once led the league in assists. 2 (Robin Yount and Barry Larkin) are already in the Hall of Fame; a third (Derek Jeter) will join them when he retires. Who's the odd man out?

Shawon Dunston.
After Biggio goes into the Hall, Dunston's former teammate (but never double play partner) Davey Lopes will be the only non-HOF 150-HR, 200-SB, assist leader second baseman.
   32. Maury Brown Posted: January 10, 2014 at 05:33 PM (#4635974)
This makes me laugh... for all the harping on the BBWAA, with Biggio just missing, the IBWAA's ballot was exceptionally close to mirroring the BBWAA results

http://www.gammonsdaily.com/ibwaa-selects-four-in-2014-hall-of-fame-vote/
   33. thetailor Posted: January 10, 2014 at 06:46 PM (#4636017)
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have NO PROBLEM with writers who throw a vote to a player that they like, or think was important culturally.

So long as they aren't bumping a player deserving of the Hall, of course.

So with this Rocca fellow, I don't mind that he put Nomo. I mind that his ballot is terrible. But it's no worse because Nomo is on it. The same goes for Benitez and others - I can't summon any rage seeing them earn votes considering that they were probably on ballots that weren't full anyway.
   34. BochysFingers Posted: January 10, 2014 at 07:16 PM (#4636027)
Ann Killion consistently submits one of the worst ballots in the Hall

Given how poorly she writes, I'm surprised she didn't vote Jones-Snow-Benitez-Morris
   35. BochysFingers Posted: January 10, 2014 at 07:18 PM (#4636028)
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have NO PROBLEM with writers who throw a vote to a player that they like, or think was important culturally.

Agreed in theory, but I still don't get the Benitez vote.
   36. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 10, 2014 at 07:31 PM (#4636034)
Angel M. Prada of La Voz Libre was the only writer to vote only for Maddux, Glavine and Thomas.
   37. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: January 10, 2014 at 08:45 PM (#4636051)
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have NO PROBLEM with writers who throw a vote to a player that they like, or think was important culturally.

So long as they aren't bumping a player deserving of the Hall, of course


I agree. Unfortunately, this year there were so many qualified eligible candidates that it was impossible to do it without leaving a deserving player off your ballot.
   38. Morty Causa Posted: January 10, 2014 at 09:09 PM (#4636056)
It's a HOF election, not a special ed class where everyone gets a gold star or a trophy. On second thought....
   39. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: January 10, 2014 at 10:34 PM (#4636071)
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have NO PROBLEM with writers who throw a vote to a player that they like, or think was important culturally.

Agreed in theory, but I still don't get the Benitez vote.


I'm a little surprised Sean Casey didn't get any votes. Not a HOFer, obviously. But he was The Mayor. I didn't think Benitez of all people was beloved in the same way.
   40. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: January 10, 2014 at 10:58 PM (#4636078)
I'm a little surprised Sean Casey didn't get any votes. Not a HOFer, obviously. But he was The Mayor.


Only 35 players whose careers started after WW2 were lifetime .300 hitters (5000 PAs). Sean Casey is one.

Granted, Mike Greenwell was another (as were Ralph Garr and Matty Alou), but still! That's an impressive achievement!
   41. Walt Davis Posted: January 11, 2014 at 12:30 AM (#4636111)
Also Moises Alou.

Moises Alou -- Edgar Martinez without the walks and with the ability to stand in LF and with the annoying habit of being caught off base after a fly ball.

Yes, I understand that Edgar without the walks is a bit like Angelina Jolie without the cheekbones.
   42. Bob Tufts Posted: January 11, 2014 at 10:03 PM (#4636671)
No one would be willing to shake hands with Moises if he were inducted.
   43. AJMcCringleberry Posted: January 12, 2014 at 02:25 AM (#4636778)
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have NO PROBLEM with writers who throw a vote to a player that they like, or think was important culturally.

So long as they aren't bumping a player deserving of the Hall, of course.


Agreed.

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