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Saturday, September 27, 2008

Bengie Molina homers but doesn’t score

They really need to sort out these sorts of situations…

The particulars: Los Angeles was leading 2-0 with Pablo Sandoval at first and one out in the sixth inning. Bengie Molina lifted a Scott Proctor pitch high off the right-field wall. The ball bounced back onto the field of play. Molina stopped at first with a single as Sandoval moved to third.

Giants manager Bruce Bochy replaced Molina with pinch-runner Emmanuel Burriss. Bochy then persuaded the umpires to give a replay review of Molina’s drive. The Giants contended the ball had reached the green “roof” above the wall, which would mean Molina should get credit for a homer.

[...]

In any event, after the review, the umpires - led by crew chief Tim Welke - ruled it a homer for Molina.

With Molina watching from the dugout, Sandoval and Burriss strolled home to tie the game.

salajander Posted: September 27, 2008 at 03:33 PM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, giants

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   1. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:19 PM (#2958202)
Only Bengie Molina could hit a home run and not actually score.
   2. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2958221)
I'll be interested to see the rotosheet boxscore for that one.
   3. Levi Stahl Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2958222)
This really surprises me. Shouldn't the state of game revert to the moment the erroneous call was made, before the insertion of a pinch-runner? Very strange.
   4. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:47 PM (#2958229)
This really surprises me. Shouldn't the state of game revert to the moment the erroneous call was made, before the insertion of a pinch-runner? Very strange.

Backing up a bit, shouldn't the manager attempt to convince the ump to look at a replay before he uses the pinch runner?
   5. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: September 27, 2008 at 05:56 PM (#2958236)
Yeah, that's sort of like an NFL coach throwing the challenge flag on a touchdown play after the extra point has already been kicked.
   6. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 27, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#2958266)
Shouldn't the state of game revert to the moment the erroneous call was made, before the insertion of a pinch-runner?


Probably. But the umpires ruled that they couldn't undo the substitution. I expect the rule to be clarified in the off-season.

Backing up a bit, shouldn't the manager attempt to convince the ump to look at a replay before he uses the pinch runner?


Yes.

-- MWE
   7. Lassus Posted: September 27, 2008 at 06:24 PM (#2958276)
Backing up a bit, shouldn't the manager attempt to convince the ump to look at a replay before he uses the pinch runner?

I get the impression from those I've spoken with that Bochy's big head does not actually actually betray added brain matter.

I think this is just a matter of replay bringing up something that hasn't ever happened before.
   8. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: September 27, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2958282)
I assume it is already written that there can be no change in a call after a pitch is thrown. They just need to add "or a substitution is made".

Even more interesting, it seems to me that MLB could decide later on that Molina should have been allowed to return and change the run to his name. There would be no reasonable question that he could have trotted around the bases. The final box score would make it look like he was removed after the inning ended for a defensive replacement and Burriss never came into the game.
   9. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 27, 2008 at 06:35 PM (#2958288)
Vin Scully was in rare form last night, his words oozing with disbelief over the pinch runner-stands call.
   10. Smittywernerjaegermanjensen Posted: September 27, 2008 at 06:54 PM (#2958322)
It almost reminds me of Robin Ventura's grand-slam single in Game Five of the 1999 National League Championship Series between the New York Mets and the Atlanta Braves.

This was from wikipedia:
In the bottom of the 15th inning, the Mets managed to load the bases against Braves relief pitcher Kevin McGlinchy. Mets catcher Todd Pratt drew a bases loaded walk, tying the score at 3-3.

The next batter was Mets third baseman Robin Ventura. Ventura crushed the 2-1 pitch over the wall in right-center for an ostensible grand slam, winning the game for the Mets and driving the Mets players and fans into a frenzied celebration. Ventura, however, never reached second base as Todd Pratt, the runner who was on first, picked him up in celebration. Subsequently, Ventura was mobbed by his teammates, never finishing his trot around the bases. Because he failed to touch all four bases, the hit was officially scored a single. Roger Cedeno, the runner on third at the time, was ruled the only runner to have crossed home plate before the on-field celebration began and the Mets were awarded a 4-3 victory. Thus, Ventura was only credited with a single and one RBI. (It is worth noting that there has never been an actual game-winning grand slam home run in postseason history, as of 2007.)

That play has always annoyed me about the Met's. They should have let Rockin' Robin trot around the bases but they took that away from him.

Not the same thing as the Molina situation. But I felt I had to say it. It's been bothering me.
   11. Walt Davis Posted: September 27, 2008 at 07:51 PM (#2958422)
before the insertion of a pinch-runner?

Have you seen Molina run? This is just part of MLB's attempts to speed up the game.
   12. Old Matt Posted: September 27, 2008 at 09:42 PM (#2958671)
That play has always annoyed me about the Met's. They should have let Rockin' Robin trot around the bases but they took that away from him.

Dude. The Grand Slam Single is one of the greatest all-time moments.
   13. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: September 27, 2008 at 10:15 PM (#2958723)
Bacon is always first. All other meats bow in reverence to bacon.
   14. Chipper Jonestown Massacre Posted: September 27, 2008 at 11:02 PM (#2958880)
Only Bengie Molina could hit a home run and not actually score.


Well, there's the aforementioned Ventura and also Tim McCarver...
   15. JMPH Posted: September 27, 2008 at 11:45 PM (#2958932)
The box score on Yahoo! says Molina did not receive credit for a run. The box score on bbref says he did. Which is it?

If Molina really didn't receive credit for a run, this is absolutely ridiculous.
   16. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: September 27, 2008 at 11:53 PM (#2958940)
Only Bengie Molina could hit a home run and not actually score.



Well, there's the aforementioned Ventura and also Tim McCarver...


And Joe Adcock
   17. Bull Pain Posted: September 27, 2008 at 11:53 PM (#2958941)
I kind of hope they let this stand and then fix the rule in the offseason. It will be a super-nerd trivia question for decades.
   18. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: September 28, 2008 at 12:00 AM (#2958944)
The thing about Molina is that he gets credit for the home run and its ensuing RBIs, but not the run itself. How often has THAT happened?

It's been joked around BBTF that Molina can't score unless he hits a homer, but this pushes that concept just a little too far.
   19. Darren Posted: September 28, 2008 at 12:37 AM (#2958973)
What a shock--a rule they rushed through mid-season was not fully thought out. I can't believe that the MLB braintrust would do this. It's so unlike them.
   20. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: September 28, 2008 at 01:43 AM (#2958997)
What a shock--a rule they rushed through mid-season was not fully thought out. I can't believe that the MLB braintrust would do this. It's so unlike them.

This kind of kink is going to show up in nearly all new rules. It's not a big deal and I'm sure they'll deal with the accounting when replay comes up for renewal.
   21. KJOK Posted: September 28, 2008 at 04:43 AM (#2959069)
Backing up a bit, shouldn't the manager attempt to convince the ump to look at a replay before he uses the pinch runner?

Bochy had already told Burris he would pinch-run if Molina reached, so he immediately went to do that. Bochy initially thought the call was correct, so he didn't stop him from pinch running right away.
   22. Fly should without a doubt be number !!!!! Posted: September 28, 2008 at 12:07 PM (#2959121)
If it was a homer, then it shouldn't have been possible for him to be removed from the game while he should have been circling the bases. Molina should have been put back on first to complete his homerun trot.

RED SOX 5TH: Olerud grounded out (second to first); Cora
grounded out (first unassisted); Kapler reached on an error by
Koskie; MACHADO RAN FOR KAPLER; Graffanino homered (unearned)
[Machado scored (unearned)]; Kapler was injured rounding 2B;
after a 5-minute delay during which Graffanino waited between
bases and the pinch-runner entered so that the home run could be
completed; Mueller grounded out (first to pitcher); 2 R (0
ER), 1 H, 1 E, 0 LOB. Red Sox 3, Blue Jays 2.


(1) If an accident to a runner is such as to prevent him from proceeding to a base to which he is entitled, as on a home run hit out of the playing field, or an award of one or more bases, a substitute runner shall be permitted to complete the play.


I think the accident here is the accidental pinch runner. I think they should change the replay rule so this doesn't happen again, but I think under existing rules, the umps got this right.

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