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Friday, April 05, 2013

Berg: Chipper Jones not done tweeting about Mike Rice

Roy White is definitely better than Mike Rice.

Which is all a convoluted way of saying that while Chipper Jones’ seemingly heated Twitter rant in defense of his own statements about fired Rutgers basketball coach Mike Rice does not make much sense to me, and in fact appears to contradict itself multiple times, I cannot say for sure that it objectively does not make much sense because Chipper Jones and I have entirely different sets of experiences impacting the way we feel feelings and tweet. Or something:

Chipper Jones  

I guess not everyone is as hyper-sensitive as some of you out there. Some of u can’t be called names or pushed out of frustration.

Chipper Jones  

If some of u thought my tweets were insensitive, I’m sorry u feel that way. I was brought up differently in the ways to be motivated.

...So, to recap as best we can: Chipper Jones thinks you have the right to your own definition of verbal and physical abuse and is sorry that you’re upset by his. If you don’t like being pushed or called names by a frustrated coach, you may be “hyper-sensitive.” Still, Mike Rice pushing and calling players names out of frustration was wrong, but whether or not he was fired should be up to Rutgers and not ESPN.

Bottom line, Chipper Jones was “brought up differently in the ways to be motivated,” thus your perspective and his perspective on Mike Rice might not necessarily jive and you’re in no way obligated to follow him on Twitter. I will continue to do so, though, because it’s super entertaining.

Repoz Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:17 AM | 131 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves

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   1. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:31 AM (#4405040)
Rice cooked.
   2. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:58 AM (#4405057)
Jimmy Martelli was even worse, it looks like. Looked like a classic case of little man syndrome.
   3. zonk Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:04 AM (#4405091)
Shorter Chipper:

I had balls throwned at my head every days and I turning out OK!
   4. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:07 AM (#4405095)
If I make enough money to retire at Chipper's age, I'll get drunk and use Twitter all day too.
   5. GregD Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:08 AM (#4405097)
I'm curious about Phil Martelli. It's hard to see him sending his son--given his connections--to work with someone who was a time bomb.
   6. zonk Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:11 AM (#4405101)
If I make enough money to retire at Chipper's age, I'll get drunk and use Twitter all day too.


Not me -- I'd be romancing Hooters waitresses! Wait...

Crap...
   7. The District Attorney Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4405104)
Not me -- I'd be romancing Hooters waitresses! Wait...

Crap...
Look out, now he's after you.
   8. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:22 AM (#4405110)
If I had Chipper's money I'd do two chicks at the same time, man.
   9. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4405147)
what surprises me is that the guy who revealed the existence of the tapes, eric Murdock, has been forgotten

and it's a shame because he was fired by rice at the end of the season and you know it was the tapes being made in the first place that got Murdock fired and rice isn't taking any heat for canning Murdock for being a truth teller

second, Murdock is likely going to be ostracized for a few years in the coaching community because he will be perceived as 'untrustworthy'.

third, I have heard though not seen in the media that Murdock told rice and the ad when he was fired that he would reveal these tapes and they didn't care
   10. GregD Posted: April 05, 2013 at 11:01 AM (#4405155)
Murdock apparently asked 950k and offered to sign a confidentiality agreement as part of his termination. When Rutgers refused (or by some accounts counter-offered 100k) he released them to the press and also released his timeline of when different people knew.

I too will be curious if Murdock can have a career. Coaches are notoriously obsessed with loyalty, but maybe Murdock has connections from his playing days that will help him. I would not be surprised if he is working in another field entirely. In coaching, you can cheat and do all sorts of other strange things, but you can turn in other coaches without getting ostracized.
   11. Spectral Posted: April 05, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4405161)
My bet would be on Murdock having a career in coaching if he's any good at coaching. While some elements will ostracize him, there will be someone (remember, there's a lot of teams) that'll see his actions as being indicative of a person that's willing to do what he considers the right thing, even when it'll potentially cost him. I'd think players would certainly see him as an ally.
   12. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 11:20 AM (#4405182)
for the record I was physically abusive to young men while in the service. the only caveat I will provide is that they signed up to be in the service and the 'abuse' was part of the job. and it was my job to push them.

these were kids not getting paid. (i don't equate scholarship to pay)
   13. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4405227)
and the ad was fired
   14. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4405305)
what surprises me is that the guy who revealed the existence of the tapes, eric Murdock, has been forgotten

and it's a shame because he was fired by rice at the end of the season and you know it was the tapes being made in the first place that got Murdock fired and rice isn't taking any heat for canning Murdock for being a truth teller


I believe Murdock is suing the school for firing him under a whistleblower protection clause.
   15. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4405338)
for the record I was physically abusive to young men while in the service.


Surely, Harv, you had a heart of gold.
   16. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4405346)
Don't worry harvs, these guys had it coming.
   17. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4405347)
for the record I was physically abusive to young men while in the service. the only caveat I will provide is that they signed up to be in the service and the 'abuse' was part of the job. and it was my job to push them.


None of them were draftees, Harv? I always envisioned you as a WWII guy.
   18. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 05, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4405350)
Nothing wrong with pushing a person to be better than he thinks he can be and to give more than he thinks he can give. The idea that the push can only legitimately come from within is odious and weak.

There's a line that shouldn't be crossed in so pushing, but society losing sight and/or faith in the principle stated above is far more damaging than anything this single coach likely did.
   19. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4405357)
None of them were draftees, Harv? I always envisioned you as a WWII guy.

There was a second War of the Roses?
   20. Magnum RA Posted: April 05, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4405368)
He might still have a job if he hasn't made homophobic slurs.
   21. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:09 PM (#4405442)
Harvey, no offense bit you don't know what the #### you're talking about. Murdock is a scumbag who tried to extort Rutgers for a million bucks when his contract wasn't renewed.
   22. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4405452)
Why did Murdock wait so long? Because he was trying to blackmail the university.

this whole thing is absurd...Rice deserves to be fired by Tim Pernetti does not.
   23. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4405462)
Also I totally don't get ESPN covering this like they are. Seems like a local interest story at best. Almost as if ESPN has a vested interest in destroying the big net networks foothold in ny metro market.
   24. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:26 PM (#4405468)
weekly

I wrote it was a shame it was forgotten because it's an important part of the story isn't it? that a guy taped his team's practices? and then was fired?

and how is telling the truth a bad thing?

you may not like his negotiating style but he gave them a chance and they dared him and he wasn't bluffing.

you should be upset that the university stinks at coverups

and notice I won't be a pedant which is a favorite hobby around here and discuss extortion versus blackmail
   25. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4405474)
weekly

this story is on every major network and news website. if espn wasn't on the story they would be accused of avoiding a story right in their backyard

and bullying is a national topic of the moment. so it hit at the 'wrong time' if you will
   26. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4405479)
Harveys....they didn't cover up jack ####. They suspended and fined the coach in November. Murdock is pond scum and the u didn't negotiate with him because it was extortion. ESPN is driving this ridiculous non story.
   27. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4405482)
weekly

to be clear if I thought rice's actions were misrepresented or misconstrued or Murdock had somehow manipulated him into acting in this manner I would understand your view better

Murdock may not be a choir boy but all he did was reveal facts. and I am a big believer in the adage that sunlight is the best disinfectant

   28. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4405488)
weekly

I have seen this story on every network I come across including fox

and again, this is being perceived as a story about 'bullying'. and that seems to be a national topic of the moment.
   29. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4405490)
Also, Mirdock was not fired....
   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4405494)
weekly

c'mon, his contract not being picked up was almost certainly tied to his prior actions with the video.

the university called his bluff and got punched in the face.

again, be mad that Rutgers is sh8tty at assessing risk
   31. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4405495)
Rice is scum, but the destruction of a decent man in Tim Pernetti is ridiculous. Murdock had no interest in the athletes and just wanted a payday.
   32. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4405500)
You're clueless Harvey. He was not renewed because he was insubordinate and sucked at his job. Why would Pernetti fire Murdock to protect Rice?
   33. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4405504)
WJ, why didn't Pernetti fire Rice when he found out about the tapes? What am I missing? I agree he shouldn't have given in to Murdocks's shakedown, but why protect Rice?
   34. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4405507)
the destruction of a decent man in Tim Pernetti is ridiculous.

I cannot speak to pernetti save by these actions which speak only to his ability to assess risk:

--had an assistant tape his crazy coach
--knew this information was easily transferred out of university's control
--had an assistant who in the worst light could be construed as having no loyalty to the university

and you think just letting him go won't go kaboom?

that's some dubious decision-making

and bad decisions get people fired
   35. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4405508)
Because the university council and investigator said they couldn't fire with cause.
   36. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:47 PM (#4405511)
weekly

if you know a guy is insubordinate you have to know he won't go quietly. you have to be ready to pay when the problem employee has volatile information that is not privileged or protected that can harm the company brand.

you can hurl all the invective you want but the athletic director did a terrible job of assessing risk and hitching his wagon to the wrong horse.

   37. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:48 PM (#4405512)

Based on what's been written in this thread, Murdock revealed facts to the school (good) and then offered not to reveal them to the media in exchange for money. It's an interesting part of the story, but it's hard to see Murdock as very principled if those facts are true.
   38. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:49 PM (#4405516)
Because the university council and investigator said they couldn't fire with cause.

if I understand it Rutgers is a state university and therefore somewhat governed by state hiring practices. I have not seen anything in the discussions where anyone from the state has supported that position.

I have heard several interviews where hr professionals have stated very clearly the guy should have been fired
   39. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:52 PM (#4405520)
it's hard to see Murdock as very principled if those facts are true.

not saying he's a choir boy. but he wasn't lying. he did not set anyone up. he wasn't revealing information that was confidential or covered by other disclosure laws. this wasn't someone's private s8xual history or medical information.

the coach was acting like a moron in full view of others and it was captured on video that people knew the assistant had in his possession

you have to accept that you pay the guy or pay another price
   40. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:53 PM (#4405521)
Because the university council and investigator said they couldn't fire with cause.

I don't quite understand...college coaches get fired all the time for tenuous reasons. Couldn't Pernetti have just fired him and said it was because the team sucked? Or was this a case that the school didn't want to have to pay off the rest of his contract? (I won't even get into the question of whether throwing the basketball at players' nuts and calling them faggots isn't grounds for dismissal.) I've got nothing against Rutgers or Pernetti, I'm just a little perplexed by the their actions. Texas Tech fired Leach and Kansas fired Mangino for similar things and those guys were much more successful than Rice and a lot more expensive to get rid of.
   41. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4405525)
shooty

I know weekly is going to crawl all over me but that reeks as a 'cover your 8ss' explanation.

at minimum they could have fired him and then paid the balance of the contract. or fired him, released the tapes, and dared 'him' to challenge the firing.
   42. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:57 PM (#4405526)
Harveys...I think finances were a consideration...Rutgers is pretty broke.
   43. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4405527)
weekly

understood

   44. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4405528)
I know weekly is going to crawl all over me but that reeks as a 'cover your 8ss' explanation.

Honestly, it does to me, too, but I'm not really up to date on the interior workings at the Rutgers AD so I'll defer to WJ on the details. This thing reminds me of Bill James's idea that scandals are sometimes a notice of an advancement of morality and not a descent. No one would have blinked an eye about something like this 20 years ago but we don't accept this kind of behavior anymore.
   45. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4405531)
Harveys...read the facts.


The facts look very, very bad for Rice & the people who didn't fire him.

Just out of curiosity, WJ, are you related to these people? I haven't seen such vehemence over the dismissal of an obvious piece of scum since some of the Black Shoe Diaries' hysterics over Paterno's being removed from his pedestal.
   46. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:01 PM (#4405532)
Shooty...thats it exactly. According to Pernetti he originally wanted to fire Rice, but after the recommendations from the investigator and university counsel, he agreed to a fine and suspension in concert with the president and three members of the bog...probably because of contract considerations.
   47. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:03 PM (#4405534)
Gef...i despise rice and like Pernetti...that's about it. I think TP got a raw deal. He has been a great AD...he is a Rutgers man who bleeds scarlet...he got our crappy program in the big ten fee chrissakes. I just can't fathom that this is such a ckusterfuck
   48. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:05 PM (#4405537)
Shooty...thats it exactly. According to Pernetti he originally wanted to fire Rice, but after the recommendations from the investigator and university counsel

In that case I think you're right and Pernetti looks like the scapegoat here. Nothing will corrupt a school as fast as big time athletics. Sheesh. You'd think after the Penn State mess the BOG and President would have wanted to be on the side of the angels.
   49. The District Attorney Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:09 PM (#4405538)
Don't worry harvs, these guys had it coming.
fixed
   50. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:09 PM (#4405541)
"My continued tenure as Athletic Director is no longer sustainable for the University which I attended and where a piece of me will always remain. In connection with the incidents involving former basketball Coach Mike Rice, as was the case with all other matters which I handled on behalf of the University, I always tried my best to do what is right. I have spent a great deal of time reflecting on the events which led to today. As you know, my first instincts when I saw the videotape of Coach Rice's behavior was to fire him immediately. However, Rutgers decided to follow a process involving university lawyers, human resources professionals, and outside counsel. Following review of the independent investigative report, the consensus was that university policy would not justify dismissal. I have admitted my role in, and regret for, that decision, and wish that I had the opportunity to go back and override it for the sake of everyone involved.

I trust that my tenure at Rutgers will not be judged by this one incident. I am proud of my efforts to lead Rutgers into the Big Ten, and of all of the accomplishments of our student-athletes in the classroom and on the field of play. I want to thank our great fans, the hardest working staff in collegiate athletics, and every one of our fine student-athletes. It has been my great pleasure to serve my alma mater"

that's his story anyway...
   51. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:11 PM (#4405544)
human resources professionals

Ugh. No wonder this is a clusterfuck.
   52. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4405546)
Lol shooty
   53. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4405551)
However, Rutgers decided to follow a process involving university lawyers, human resources professionals, and outside counsel.


Yes, it's always the lawyers' fault.
   54. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:16 PM (#4405552)
And yes, Pernetti made some mistakes...number one being his disastrous Outside the Lines interview. But even that interview tells me he had no clue his job was in jeopardy or that this would be bad news for anyone but Rice. Maybe in the end he was just naive.

It is sad that he won't be around to see this team host Michigan in the 2014 B1G opener, after everything he did.
   55. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:19 PM (#4405554)
DA...that lawyer was fired by Rutgers yesterday, so obviously someone thinks he ###### up big time.

ugh...just disgusted with this whole thing. Just sad. All this over a crappy glorified gym teacher...
   56. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4405559)
Harveys...read the facts.


The facts are that Pernetti had the video, saw the video, and all he had to say at the time was, "inappropriate behavior and language" and suspended Rice for 3 days,

he physically assaulted several players, he attacked players on the basis of their ethnicities...

and before Pernetti hired Rice, he'd already gotten in hot water at his prior school for attacking a ref.

   57. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4405561)
for various reasons I have a lot of experience firing people and understand that lawyers and hr are very risk averse. understand that scenario all too well

and some of my terminations were around behavior. people being verbally abusive. people making threats. people assaulting others. bringing weapons to work

some things do require a performance plan. like verbal abuse is likely not something where you can fire people right away unless it's a crazy whacko speech with racist/homophobic/just wrong type rantings.

but I don't know of a university hr code where a guy throwing objects at others and using homophobic language doesn't get you fired. I am familiar with the various big ten policies and rice would have been canned there. bobby knight for all his issues just used the f-bomb a lot and when he touched players he was dragging them to where he though they should be on the court. and by today's hr standards he would have been placed on a performance plan and expected to change

so it looks like the support network for the ad failed him in a serious way because any decent legal team with hr support would have been able to defend the university's termination in a lawsuit. at least in my experiences
   58. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4405562)
that lawyer was fires by Rutgers yesterday


Which only makes Pernetti look worse. He's basically saying he knew Rice should have been fired, that the lawyers were wrong and that he didn't have the balls to challenge them on it, but he'll throw them under the bus anyway.
   59. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:27 PM (#4405569)
that's his story anyway...


If he wanted to fire Rice and was overruled by a University lawyer, why did he resign?

But then again 50+ professors had signed a petition asking him to resign, why stay when you're not wanted so to speak


And guess what, Rutgers' outside counsel is now basically saying bullshit to this, he recommended in January that Rice be fired.

(Rutgers' inhouse guy has resigned- so perhaps he was the one who "overruled" Pernetti)

   60. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4405570)
Which only makes Pernetti look worse.

I'm not sure how. If you take him at face value he was overruled by the university. This isn't Nebraska where the AD runs the state...
   61. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4405575)
Then why not can the president
   62. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4405576)
johnny

bah, professors always hate the athletic dept. they are just grandstanding

   63. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4405577)
Then why not can the president

This is a very good question.
   64. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:34 PM (#4405579)
I don't think he was overruled. I think he agreed to go along with the action plan....a big mistake, but he seems to be getting a raw deal in taking the fall for this debacle.
   65. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4405583)
If you take him at face value he was overruled by the university.


Right now that's a big if for me.
   66. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4405584)
Then why not can the president


There's a faculty petition piling up signatures against him too...

*Someone* had Rice's back for some reason.

Pernetti said that he wanted to fire Rice, but was overruled

Barchi says that he agreed at the time with Pernetti that a suspension was appropriate, but he (Barchi) had not seen the video until this week. (Yes folks, one of these two men is not being completely honest)

Rutgers' outside counsel (Lacey) wrote in January that Rice's conduct merited firing for cause

Rutgers in-house counsel (and Veep) just resigned but I have yet to see any statement from him.


   67. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:39 PM (#4405586)
If he wanted to fire Rice and was overruled by a University lawyer, why did he resign?

But then again 50+ professors had signed a petition asking him to resign, why stay when you're not wanted so to speak


He was certainly asked to resign. Personally I would say no, fire me.
   68. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:39 PM (#4405587)
bah, professors always hate the athletic dept. they are just grandstanding


yes, some of those who signed were opposed to Rutgers' drive for NCAA prominence long before this and wanted to step back to Div III, but they're not just "grandstanding now," they smell blood in the water.
   69. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:39 PM (#4405589)
I think it all makes sense if you realize that firing rice left a cash strapped college on the hook for a lot of money...
   70. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4405591)
I think it all makes sense if you realize that firing rice left a cash strapped college on the hook for a lot of money...


That's their problem, not his.
   71. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4405593)
Anyone else feel that the O'Bannon case is about to make all of this kind of stuff moot in a couple of months? I see a separation between athletics and academics on the way, personally.
   72. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4405595)
I don't think he was overruled. I think he agreed to go along with the action plan....a big mistake, but he seems to be getting a raw deal in taking the fall for this debacle.


I dunno, it's possible he was "overruled"

conversely it's possible he didn't want to fire Rice, didn't show HR/Pres the video and downplayed what was on it

it's also possible that he threw the whole matter at HR/lawyers... and the 3 day suspension/anger management was the "committee's" answer...

   73. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:52 PM (#4405607)
Pernetti, who is paid $410,000 a year, has been athletic director at Rutgers since 2009 — succeeding Robert Mulchahy, who was fired over spending abuses in the university's football program.
A former Rutgers tight end who later worked for CBS College Sports Network, the 42-year-old Pernetti served as the game analyst for the Rutgers Football Radio Network and had no experience as an athletic director before being tapped to take over the Rutgers program as director of intercollegiate athletics.
His first major hire was Mike Rice, who was offered the position in May 2010 as head basketball coach of Rutgers.[/quotet

nice history. real smart to bring in a guy with no experience; what could go wrong?
   74. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:56 PM (#4405612)
Was Matt Millen an adviser?
   75. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:57 PM (#4405613)
Were most ADs at major(ish) universities assistant ADs, or maybe ADs at smaller schools, previously?

I have no idea, hence my question.
   76. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:58 PM (#4405615)
Hard to see Barchi going for a couple of years unless this gets worse. They got MD with admin experience in place to handle absorbing the state's three med schools. I don't see the state messing with that timeline.
   77. Walt Davis Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4405617)
No one would have blinked an eye about something like this 20 years ago but we don't accept this kind of behavior anymore.

Disagree. Bobby Knight caused quite a stir when he grabbed a player on the sidelines and screamed in his face (his son Pat if I remember right). He was Bobby Knight so he survived the controversy but there was one. Woody Hayes was done after punching an opposing player and that was 30+ years ago.

The main difference between then and now is technology. Those earlier instances were the rare times when a coach lost it on TV and so there was video proof. Now video of coach behavior in practice is relatively easy to come by.
   78. Kurt Posted: April 05, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4405618)
As you know, my first instincts when I saw the videotape of Coach Rice's behavior was to fire him immediately.


This part is CYA. At the news conference the president denied knowing last fall that Pernetti wanted to fire Rice then. "As you know" is more properly translated as "As I told you two days ago"
   79. DA Baracus Posted: April 05, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4405634)
Were most ADs at major(ish) universities assistant ADs, or maybe ADs at smaller schools, previously?

I have no idea, hence my question.


Yes. For the most part they worked their way up the AD ladder, or are alums who are successful businessmen (Jack Swarbrick comes to mind) where they had experience running big organizations, or occasionally a coach like Barry Alvarez or Mike Bellotti (who didn't last long). Local broadcast booth to the AD's office, not so much.
   80. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4405645)
Mcmurphy now reporting that the FBI is investigating Murdock. Good.
   81. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 05:50 PM (#4405677)
weekly

interesting. i will be curious as to what he did that crossed the legal line
   82. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 05, 2013 at 05:55 PM (#4405683)
Its not like we should expect much from an uneducated southerner. He is doing the best he can with his limited abilities.
   83. I am going to be Frank Posted: April 05, 2013 at 06:10 PM (#4405692)
Three members of the Board of Governors viewed the tape and agreed with the suspension. This is ridiculous on so many levels. Rice wasn't even a successful coach! Sure Rutgers has some highlights but their athletic programs for the most part aren't very good.

I think AD used to be old coaches or college administrators. Now more and more are successful businessmen who need to grow revenues and make their programs profitable and high profile.

   84. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 07:33 PM (#4405763)
Three members of the Board of Governors viewed the tape and agreed with the suspension.


If I were Weekly Journalist, I don't think I'd be proclaiming my solidarity with & support for this obvious joke of an institution. This is SEC-level absurd ... except that I don't think even most SEC trustees would turn a blind eye toward a bad basketball coach who acted so idiotically, with the obvious exception of Kentucky.

A football coach, on the other hand (except, I suppose, for Arkansas, at least last year) ...
   85. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 07:43 PM (#4405772)
No AD candidates worth a damn would want the Rutgers job now in a million years.
   86. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4405775)
Are you kidding gef? I'm well aware that Rutgers is a clownshoes outfit.
   87. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 07:49 PM (#4405780)
Though I had a nice time at the library tonight, which is first class. I'm glad the college I teach at has reciprocal faculty borrowing privileges.
   88. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:26 PM (#4405811)
Harvey, you're the most naive man in America if you think Knight was not physically abusing players in practice on a regular basis.
   89. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 08:54 PM (#4405834)
goto

bah. did he grab guys and move them from place a to b? yes. did he poke his finger ina chest? yes

the neil reed stuff was him finally going off the deep end I imagine due to age. there he lost it.

but his primary weapon was his tongue. if you want to claim he was the most verbally abusive coach ever I wouldn't stand in your way. he could have a player in his tears at times

but he wasn't manhandling kids

   90. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:13 PM (#4405853)
1976: Knight's behavioral problems first came to a head in 1976 when, after defeating Kentucky in a regular season game, Coach Knight had a heated discussion with Wildcat's coach and former friend Joe Hall. After the discussion Hall turned to walk back to his bench and Knight slapped him across the back of the head.

1976: Grabs Indiana sophomore Jim Wisman by the jersey and yanks him into
his seat.

1979: Is charged and later convicted in absentia for hitting a policeman
before practice at the Pan American Games in Puerto Rico.

1980: Knight fires a blank shot from a track & field starters pistol at Russ Brown, a reporter for the Louisville Courier-Journal.

1981: Gets into a shoving match with an LSU fan, who accuses Knight of
stuffing him into a garbage can.

1988: In an NBC interview with Connie Chung, says, "I think that if rape is
inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

1993: Is suspended for one game after kicking at his son, Pat, during a
sideline tirade.

1994: "Accidentially" head-butts player Sherron Wilkerson while screaming at him on the
bench.

1999: Is investigated for possible battery after allegedly choking a man in
a restaurant. The man admits he confronted Knight after, he says,
overhearing a racist remark. The prosecutor refused to file charges.

1999: Allegedly throws assistant coach Ron Felling out of a chair after
hearing him criticize the basketball program.

2000: An Indiana University secretary alleged that Knight had thrown a potted plant at her and Assistant Coach Ron Felling is fired after claiming Knight punched him in the chest and kicked him out of a chair after he overhead Felling criticizing the program. Felling filed suit against Knight for assault but the case was settled out of court for $37,000, an amount paid by Indiana University.

2000: Is investigated by Indiana after former player Neil Reed accuses
Knight of choking him at a practice in 1997. A video supports Reed's claim. Knight is suspended for three
games, ordered to pay a $30,000 fine and barred from having physical contact
with a player or a university employee after the investigation finds a
pattern of unacceptable behavior.

2000: Is accused of grabbing a student by the arm and cursing him after the
student said, "Hey, Knight, what's up?" Indiana fires Knight for violating
the school's zero-tolerance policy.

2001: Now at Texas Tech, the general manager of the Compaq Center in Houston
says Knight offered to fight him after Knight criticized the locker room.

2004: Gets into a loud argument with the Texas Tech chancellor at a Lubbock
grocery store.

2006: Knight had to be physically restrained by police officers after a Baylor University student heckled him.

2006: Coach Knight's most recent outburst happened on November 13, 2006. He was shown striking Tech player Michael Prince under the chin when the young man was looking at the floor instead of at his coach.

To believe that this individual was not physically assaulting student athletes--and others--on a regular basis requires an amazing and willful capacity to ignore what is staring you in the face. He has a long, long, long history of physical violence.

   91. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:22 PM (#4405875)
Forgot a few others from earlier in the 1970s:

Knight's son Tim suffered a dislocated shoulder and a broken nose during a scuffle with his father during a hunting trip.

Knight attacked and knocked out an Indiana sports information director.

And this more recent one.

2007: Two local residents in Lubbock say Knight shot them with a pellet gun when they complained to him about hunting too close to their homes.
   92. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:29 PM (#4405893)
goto

it's pretty clear you loathe and despise knight. have at it.

you can insult my intelligence all you want but I am not budging so you can revel in your indignation.

and note I acknowledge that the reed situation and stuff after that was a sign of a coach who was losing it likely due to age. a la woody hayes.

but again, not budging. so please put me on ignore. it will likely serve us both



   93. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:39 PM (#4405902)
I don't even give Knight a second thought, much less loathe and despise him. Takes less than 5 minutes to find multiple long lists of his repeated physical violence. I don't think any reasonable person who looks at that pattern of behavior over 3 decades can conclude anything other than that this is an individual who consistently resorted to physical violence.
   94. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:44 PM (#4405911)
goto

setting aside the personal hypocrisy I would be committing in judging someone else as physically abusive I think we have different standards of physical violence

I will let you write me off as a moron.

   95. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4405925)
Well at least the big ten isn't rescinding the invite. In fact, I think this just proves that Rutgers can capture the NY media market.
   96. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4405932)
My favorite memory of player/coach violence: Al McGuire @ Marquette.

When he told writers after a Final Four victory over Kansas at Greensboro in '74 that one of his players had been ready to leave at halftime, most thought he was kidding. He wasn't.

After berating the Warriors at the top of his voice in a halftime harangue, he invited anyone who didn't want to play the second half to get dressed and go home.

Guard Lloyd Walton took exception to that, saying, "We didn't get here because of you, we got here on heart," and started to get dressed.

"I tackled him," McGuire said.

Earlier that season, at a fairly typical Marquette practice, guard Dave Delsman had punched fellow guard Marcus in the face.

"Hey, Dels," McGuire yelled, "if you want to hit somebody, hit me."

Delsman took him at his word and knocked McGuire down.

"Can you imagine that little squirt putting me on the floor?" McGuire marveled. "I should have just hit him on top of the head and been done with it."
   97. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4405941)
More McGuire fights with players, this time in '77.

Al McGuire might've been going out a loser, but he wasn't leaving without a fight.

Mark Lavin, now living in Omaha, was a walk-on at Marquette during their 1977 championship season. "I was lucky enough to walk on with Al McGuire and walk out with Al McGuire," he said.So at halftime on the night the NCAA tournament first hit Omaha, McGuire stormed into the Civic Auditorium locker room.

He grabbed his stubborn sharpshooter Bernard Toone, shoved him against a wall, stuck a finger in his face and threatened his life.

Then McGuire, the son of an Irish immigrant who grew out of his father's New York bar and into one of the game's finest coaches at Marquette, the technical foul machine who once knelt before officials at DePaul and begged them to take his car, his house, his job, but not this game, the 48-year-old man who announced in the middle of that 1977 campaign that he was calling it quits after the season, slapped Toone hard.

Across the face.

What happened next? Depends on who tells the story. Omahan Mark Lavin, a freshman walk-on for Marquette that year, recalls a few bodies crashing into a table, teammates stepping in to break it up.

What happened next? Everyone agrees. Marquette took the court for the second half of its first-round tussle with Cincinnati and turned a three-point deficit into a 15-point win. Sixteen days later, the Warriors were national champions.


I've read and heard many times elsewhere that Toone decked McGuire good and McGuire did the same, after he slapped Toone.
   98. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: April 05, 2013 at 10:17 PM (#4405947)
Harvey, I was a college wrestler. I know physical violence. Knight is an aggressive, physically violent, abusive man.
   99. Walt Davis Posted: April 06, 2013 at 02:38 AM (#4406034)
McGuire was a good commentator in his prime though. The favorite bit I recall (at least after dashing out to hug Ray Meyer) was a bit of advice he gave on reaching in for the ball. "Most refs will call a foul there based on hearing a slap of skin. So I always taught my players to go after the ball with their fist. Then if they caught the guy on the arm, there'd be no loud slap AND the ball was more likely to come loose." Billy Packer was suitably aghast at this.

I started employing that in intramural games. Works pretty well although those are not tough refs to fool.

I'm with GoTo ... I'd be stunned if Knight didn't cross this line in practice at least once a year.

To get back to my technology point -- note the time that Knight didn't quite get away with it was the time it was caught on tape (he was gone within a year). Note that in the Rutgers case the abused players don't seem to have come forward. Without the tape, this would have been reduced to some form of "he said, he said" at worst and would have mostly gone away (a short suspension maybe).

interesting. i will be curious as to what he did that crossed the legal line

Well, there's extortion when you're silly enough to do it yourself and extortion when you're smart enough to hire a lawyer to do it for you. I remember the case where Bill Cosby was involved in a paternity claim. The "daughter" (never verified one way or the other it seems) asked for money or she'd sell her story to the tabloids. She was convicted of extortion. Around the time of the indictment or conviction there was an interesting op-ed piece in the Times by a lawyer laying out that what she was trying to do could have all been done perfectly legally. Basically it's all about how you ask. (Also she asked for anywhere from $24 to $40 million, depending on source, which was perhaps a slight overestimation of the damage such a story would do to Cosby.)

Anyway, the lesson was "if you want to extort someone, hire a lawyer to do it for you." I suspect you've been employing that strategy for decades HW. :-)
   100. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 06, 2013 at 09:08 AM (#4406061)
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