Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, November 02, 2007

Beyond the Box Score: Anderson: Bob Gibson + PETCO = ???

uhh…a thread that’ll knock you down? No, no…it’s just the latest neat bit from RJ Anderson.

Bob Gibson is without a doubt one of the most talented pitchers to grace the sport, his fastball was ethereal and his pacing methodology revolutionary. Throughout Gibson’s career he relied heavily on his fastball, and so it comes as no surprise that his Achilles’ heel would be the round tripper, giving up nearly 17 per season, although not Robin Roberts’ levels - 26 per season for 19 years - but a trend that impacted the right hander none the less.

Something funny happened to his homerun rates from 1966 on, one could argue he was finally entering his prime at age 30, and that he’d had prior success, which is true, seasons of ERAs hovering slightly above and below 3 seemed to be the norm for Gibson in a very hitter friendly ballpark. In May of 1966 the Cardinals moved into Busch Stadium II - a pitcher’s park - and Gibson would see his homerun rates drop dramatically meaning less runs meaning a lower ERA, including a season with a sub-2 ERA, simply amazing.

There isn’t a question of whether Gibson benefited from changing parks - he did - but consider it a evening out of sorts, going from hitters’ to pitchers’ parks Gibson still maintained his high level of play while reaping the goods of different stadiums suited for opposite aspects of the game. I’m not going to be one to question Gibson’s accomplishments or call his great seasons frauds because of his ballpark; instead I question how good would he have been if for the longevity of his career he would’ve had a stadium like PETCO Park positioned behind him along with seven worthy fielders?

Repoz Posted: November 02, 2007 at 12:33 AM | 7 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, history, sabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. McCoy Posted: November 02, 2007 at 01:39 AM (#2602995)
Oh I always love these things. Let give player X modern advantage but don't have him take any of the disadvantages of modern playing and then let us see how he would do if we play with the numbers.
   2. Timebomb Murdoch Posted: November 02, 2007 at 02:16 AM (#2603018)
Sounds like a new feature set for Baseball Reference is in the works.
   3. McCoy Posted: November 02, 2007 at 02:25 AM (#2603026)
You can already do this with BRef. You can change any players stats to any years environment or the 2000 Rockies or the 1968 Dodgers. It is the neutralize stat option found on every players page.

The author of this articles used the 1968 Dodgers scenari to fill in for his what if on PETCO park.
   4. OCF Posted: November 02, 2007 at 02:26 AM (#2603028)
Bob Gibson was a great pitcher - in his own context, in his own time. When his name came up as a candidate for the Hall of Merit, he absolutely sailed in. The 1981 vote totals had 48 of 54 first place votes for Gibson, and four of the other votes had him second (mostly behind Killebrew.) He had a far easier time being elected to the HoM than did Sandy Koufax. It bothers me a little to take the case for great player and gimmick it up, when you can just play it straight. Yes, 1968 was an extremely low run context, and Gibson in 1968 was a little hit-lucky on balls in play. But it's still a great, great season. (Better than or worse than Gooden 1985? That's a debate.)

One thing I do miss about him: he worked fast. Get the ball back from the catcher, get the sign quick, he's ready to go NOW. A Gibson-pitched game would move right along.

... behind him along with seven worthy fielders?

Seven worthy fielders? How about Dal Maxvill at SS, Curt Flood in CF, and we'll take our chances with the other positions?
   5. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: November 02, 2007 at 02:54 AM (#2603055)
Gibson would've been the best statistical pitcher ever if he played in Dodgers Stadium

And nobody else got to. But if everybody got to play in Dodger Stadium, he would be merely among the better statistical pitchers ever, as he indeed was in real life. You could say the same of all great pitchers.
   6. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: November 02, 2007 at 05:54 AM (#2603136)
Qualcomm, the Murph, what ever you want to call it, was just as bad.
Petco might be slightly worse, but it can't be too much worse.


Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the study where they put Barry Lamar in the Bronx for his whole career. Give him the same benefits the Babe had. And by benefits, I mean that short porch versus a 30 foot high brick wall.



Tack on another 100?
thats my rough guess.
   7. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 02, 2007 at 06:09 AM (#2603141)
To put it simply: Gibson would've been the best statistical pitcher ever if he played in Dodgers [sic] Stadium - Gibson, Koufax, and Drysdale, man that would've been a rotation for the ages


That would be a rotation for the ages no matter what park they were pitching in...

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam M
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogWilmoth: Nate McLouth Designated For Assignment
(9 - 10:58pm, May 25)
Last: Tripon

NewsblogMatschulat: Did I Miss The "Paul Konerko Is So Overrated OMG" Bandwagon?
(26 - 10:46pm, May 25)
Last: Der_K is feeling better now.

NewsblogTBO: Nerdy Rays head north
(17 - 10:07pm, May 25)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogHimrich’s Top Ten Target Field Foods
(6 - 9:57pm, May 25)
Last: Long John McCaine Mutiny on the Bounty (scott)

NewsblogThe Hall of Very Good: Former Cards Slugger Critical of "LaRussa's Regime"
(3 - 9:52pm, May 25)
Last: asinwreck

NewsblogT.R. Sullivan: Of Frank Robinson, Milt Pappas and Jim Palmer
(6 - 9:42pm, May 25)
Last: TR_Sullivan

NewsblogDodgers want to host NHL's Winter Classic
(22 - 9:38pm, May 25)
Last: Cris E

NewsblogBoston.com: Curt Schilling’s 38 Studios lays off all staff
(117 - 9:36pm, May 25)
Last: Teufel's Graveyard

NewsblogGreenberg: Cubs' Ricketts decries proposal
(817 - 9:08pm, May 25)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogHP: Baseball is leaving the human factor behind
(55 - 8:48pm, May 25)
Last: Squash

NewsblogBud Selig -- No need for more MLB replay for now - ESPN
(85 - 8:37pm, May 25)
Last: Harveys Wallbangers

Sox TherapyA Winning Ballclub?
(19 - 8:32pm, May 25)
Last: Jose Can You Seabiscuit

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1973 Discussion
(14 - 7:33pm, May 25)
Last: Kiko Sakata

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-25-2012
(48 - 7:04pm, May 25)
Last: AndrewJ

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread—May 2012
(1164 - 6:35pm, May 25)
Last: The DA Baracus Hypothesis

Buy MLB playoff tickets, plus 2011 World Series, 2011 ALCS tickets and NLCS game tickets. We also have Texas Rangers playoff schedule, tickets to Red Sox games and Yankees game tickets. Plus, buy Phillies baseball tickets, Tigers playoff tickets and the biggies like ALDS baseball tickets and 2011 NLDS tickets.

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets.

Page rendered in 0.1560 seconds
54 querie(s) executed