Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, December 27, 2008

Big Unit agrees to one-year deal with the Giants

The Giants try to fix their Unit-body construction!

scareduck Posted: December 27, 2008 at 03:23 AM | 50 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: giants

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Ignatius J. Reilly Posted: December 27, 2008 at 03:54 AM (#3038738)
The Giants are the best team in the NL West right now.
   2. Flynn Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:00 AM (#3038741)
Cool. Now go sign Adam Dunn and make a run for 85 wins.
   3. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:01 AM (#3038742)
This is the Giants just trying to live up to their name.
   4. Gamingboy Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:03 AM (#3038743)
This is the Giants just trying to live up to their name.


Unit is too skinny to be a true giant.
   5. Mike Webber Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:08 AM (#3038745)
Why didn't Johnson return to the D-Backs? Are they that high on Yuseiro Petit?
   6. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:26 AM (#3038752)
NNNoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   7. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:41 AM (#3038764)
Perhaps Johnson wants to experiment with an alternate life-style, and thought that SF is a better place to do that than Arizona.....
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:41 AM (#3038765)
Now go sign Adam Dunn and make a run for 85 wins.

It would be more of a walk
   9. 1k5v3L Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:56 AM (#3038776)
Are they that high on Yuseiro Petit?
Nah, they are just high.

Word is RJ is getting $8m guaranteed plus $5m in incentives.
First, the Dbacks don't have $8m, unless they trade Eric Byrnes for Hackensack
The most they could probably scrape up for another starting pitcher is $2-3M
And second, the Dbacks have a team policy against giving incentives in contracts
So they couldn't have come close to matching the Giants offer anyhow

At least RJ didn't sign with the Dodgers...
   10. 1k5v3L Posted: December 27, 2008 at 04:57 AM (#3038777)
Unit is too skinny to be a true giant.
Well, he might get Bonds's old locker... and trainer... and supplements
   11. aleskel Posted: December 27, 2008 at 05:02 AM (#3038780)
wow, can't say I saw this one coming

I think they signed him to play Ghost of Christmas Past for Zito
   12. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: December 27, 2008 at 05:17 AM (#3038782)
RJ's finally old enough to play for the Giants.
   13. Depressoteric Posted: December 27, 2008 at 05:41 AM (#3038784)
wow, can't say I saw this one coming
Seriously? The Giants were the ONLY team being bruited about as a likely landing spot for RJ. And Sabean all but came right out and said "he's ours" in an interview a few days ago. This doesn't surprise me at all.
   14. ValueArb Posted: December 27, 2008 at 05:52 AM (#3038787)
Wow, how did Sabean suddenly get so smart? What a screaming good deal for the Giants...
   15. Depressoteric Posted: December 27, 2008 at 06:00 AM (#3038788)
Wow, how did Sabean suddenly get so smart? What a screaming good deal for the Giants...
He benefited from the fact that RJ wanted to stay as close to AZ as possible, and preferred the National League. That really only left LA, SD and SF. (Maybe HOU, I dunno.) Seeing as how SD is wearing a barrel for clothing right now and Ned Coletti is also seemingly forbidden from adding too much payroll, SF is the natural landing place.

The shame is that, unless my rumors are mixed up, RJ came to the D-Backs offering to take a 50% pay cut right off the bat. Even then they supposedly still didn't have enough money. Pennywise, pound foolish. Or rather: blame the Eric Byrnes extension. Stupid owners!
   16. scareduck Posted: December 27, 2008 at 06:04 AM (#3038789)
Ned Colletti has to don a ball gag and beg like a doggy for his allowance. In a French maid costume.
   17. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 27, 2008 at 06:57 AM (#3038799)
I really like it. I wouldn't say that they are the best in the division, but they project to be about a .500 team. With a bit of luck, they could contend in 2009.
   18. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: December 27, 2008 at 07:17 AM (#3038802)
People who think games take too long should be Giants followers next year. Lots of 2-1 games wrapped up in 2:25.
   19. villainx Posted: December 27, 2008 at 08:39 AM (#3038806)
Prop 8 makes SF safe.
   20. CFiJ Posted: December 27, 2008 at 11:26 AM (#3038817)
It would be more of a walk


Don't talk to me about Adam Dunn's on-base percentage!

/hangs up
   21. EnderCN Posted: December 27, 2008 at 06:38 PM (#3038882)
Giants are still the 3rd best team in the NL West, they need a couple bats to hope to contend.
   22. Excal Posted: December 27, 2008 at 08:46 PM (#3038931)
Lot of talk about SF publicizing Johnson's quest for 300 wins like Bonds' HR record. Am I the only one who looks at the Giants' offense and thinks that if Randy's trying to make it to 300, he should have signed a 2-year deal?
   23. Srul Itza At Home Posted: December 27, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#3038935)
Am I the only one who looks at the Giants' offense and thinks that if Randy's trying to make it to 300, he should have signed a 2-year deal?

As bad as the Giants are, I think that if Randy can manage 25-30 starts, he squeeze out 5 wins with them.
   24. Robert S. Posted: December 28, 2008 at 12:02 AM (#3038978)
The D-backs weren't going anywhere even if they signed Johnson, so it's hard to care that he's gone.
   25. Tom (and his broom) Posted: December 28, 2008 at 01:54 AM (#3039015)
if the Giants don't have an advertising campaign that has Lincecum and RJ standing next to each other they are totally messing up the greatest ad opportunity in baseball history.
   26. 3Com Park Posted: December 28, 2008 at 01:59 AM (#3039018)
Giants are the first team since the Braves (Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz) with three Cy Young winners
   27. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: December 28, 2008 at 01:59 AM (#3039019)
That Diamondback juggernaut is right around the corner.
   28. ValueArb Posted: December 28, 2008 at 06:02 AM (#3039090)
The Giants have a better offense than the Diamondbacks do now. Their short stops were brutal last year (3 of them under a 45 OPS+), and Renteria is a huge offensive upgrade by comparison. The Diamondbacks have a significant downgrade at second base, and even though Dunn only played 44 games for them he was by far their best hitter. My guess is the Giants offense has been upgraded to mediocre, while the Diamondbacks have been downgraded to terrible.
   29. 1k5v3L Posted: December 28, 2008 at 06:34 AM (#3039103)
The Giants have a better offense than the Diamondbacks do now. Their short stops were brutal last year (3 of them under a 45 OPS+), and Renteria is a huge offensive upgrade by comparison. The Diamondbacks have a significant downgrade at second base, and even though Dunn only played 44 games for them he was by far their best hitter. My guess is the Giants offense has been upgraded to mediocre, while the Diamondbacks have been downgraded to terrible.
Geez, exaggerate much?
Don't get me wrong, I wanted the Dbacks to re-sign RJ more than any other Dbacks fan out there (no, that's not an exaggeration). But what's done is done. The Dbacks are about as good now as they were at the start of last season, arguably better. And that team won 82 games despite a crappy bullpen. The Giants, despite their moves, are still the 4th best team in the NL West.
   30. 1k5v3L Posted: December 28, 2008 at 06:36 AM (#3039105)
That Diamondback juggernaut is right around the corner.
Heh. Shouldn't you be administering CPR to the Mets? Wait, it's too early; you've got time until September.
   31. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 28, 2008 at 06:47 AM (#3039111)
My guess is the Giants offense has been upgraded to mediocre, while the Diamondbacks have been downgraded to terrible.

Giants will be a bit better offensively, but I don't know if they're quite mediocre yet. I would expect worse offense from Lewis, Winn, and Molina and their only clear upgrade is Renteria (offensively, gives most of it back defensively). They'll also get less production from 2B, where Durham had a solid year at the plate for 2/3rds of the season.

Yes, the Dbacks lose Hudson and Dunn. But they should get better production from Upton, Jackson, and Byrnes (big time). I still think Chris Young is going to put up a fluke monster season one of these years. Reynolds could also bust out. Arizona may be slightly below average offensively (although it's far from certain given how most of their hitters are in their mid-20s). But there's no question that the Dbacks have a superior lineup to the Giants, as rosters are currently constructed.
   32. 92-93 Posted: December 28, 2008 at 07:05 AM (#3039118)
A trade based around Adam Lind for Jonathan Sanchez seems to make sense for both clubs at this point. The Jays have an OF of Snider/Wells/Rios for awhile with Cooper likely to take Overbay's spot at 1B and the Giants have control of Lincecum/Cain/Zito with Bumgarner/Alderson creeping closer. Thoughts?
   33. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 28, 2008 at 08:23 AM (#3039130)
It's not the worst trade idea that I've ever heard. The projections for Lind are all over the map. James projects .300/.349/.494, while CHONE 50th percentile comes in at .275/.328/.447 (the more optimistic James line is around 75th percentile). Lind seems to be a below average defensive left fielder as well.

If its the second line, then that looks a lot like what we can expect from Schierholtz, who is a better defender than Lind. The Giants already have an surplus, mediocre offensive corners with better gloves (Lewis, Winn, Schierholtz), so I'm not seeing where Lind would represent much of an upgrade once you factor in defense.

It could be that the Giants would be better off trading for Lind and trading away both Winn and Lewis (in unrelated deals) and then start Schierholtz in RF and Lind in LF. That would certainly increase the power in the lineup, at the expense of defense. But I'm pretty sure that Sabean is committed to both his mediocre corners for 2008, so the odds of him trading for Lind are pretty minimal.
   34. villageidiom Posted: December 28, 2008 at 09:26 AM (#3039134)
The Giants are done signing Type A/B free agents. Johnson is their 4th, and they can't sign more than that.
   35. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 28, 2008 at 09:40 AM (#3039136)
Slight correction: the Giants cannot sign anymore Type A/B free agents who were offered arbitration.

Adam Dunn wasn't offered arbitration, so he's still a possible target for the Giants.


EDIT: The Dbacks didn't offer Johnson arbitration, nor did the Cubs to Howry, nor the Tigers to Renteria. So far Affeldt (Type B) is the only FA signing that will cost them picks.
   36. 92-93 Posted: December 28, 2008 at 10:11 AM (#3039137)
Lind seems to be a below average defensive left fielder as well.


I'm not going to argue with this, just say a few things - he definitely looks shaky out there at times, but for the most part he rarely makes mistakes out there, and the Fielding Bible actually had him as a good LF in 2007 (sample size alert?).

And while it's a shame that the Giants are locked into Randy Winn for 9m this year, having him and Fred Lewis around is a terrible reason to not pursue a hitter who may flourish at the big league level. Fred Lewis will never hit enough to be a corner OF, and Winn is 35 with one decent season out of the last 6. They do not represent reasons to stay away from Lind. Winn could always be platooned with Lind until the trade deadline, when a playoff team would be willing to add Winn to their bench for a couple of months. This trade would set the Giants up nicely for 2010-2012 with an OF of Lind/Rowand/Schierholtz.

If they could do better then fine, but I doubt they can get a better package than Lind and say Davis Romero (or another of one of Toronto's many arms) for Sanchez.
   37. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 28, 2008 at 12:08 PM (#3039141)
Just to clarify, I'd be interested in Lind-for-Sanchez if I were the GM. I just don't expect that Sabean will be.

Also, I agree 100% that Lewis and Winn are inferior hitters for corner outfielders. But Sabean likes having a great defensive outfield, which Lewis/Rowand/Winn provides (although probably not as good as Sabean may think it is).

Anyway, about 5-6 years ago I resigned myself to the fact that Sabean makes most of his personnel decisions based on his gut, not any sort of objective analysis. Occasionally he's been right, but most of the time he's been wrong. Regardless, there's not much point in beating the dead horse about Sabean's deficiencies--he is what he is, and no amount of complaining is going to change what he does. Hopefully the Giants can contend in a weak division in 2009 despite their incompetent management.
   38. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 28, 2008 at 02:57 PM (#3039148)
Heh. Shouldn't you be administering CPR to the Mets? Wait, it's too early; you've got time until September.

You mean the Heimlich manœuvre, CPR is different.
   39. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: December 28, 2008 at 03:42 PM (#3039156)
Heh, the D-Backs have no chance of winning as many games as the Mets next year. Heh.
   40. rfloh Posted: December 28, 2008 at 04:43 PM (#3039165)
And while it's a shame that the Giants are locked into Randy Winn for 9m this year, having him and Fred Lewis around is a terrible reason to not pursue a hitter who may flourish at the big league level. Fred Lewis will never hit enough to be a corner OF, and Winn is 35 with one decent season out of the last 6.


BPro had Winn 5.7 runs above the positional average for RF offensively, before adding in non SB / CS baserunning. For baserunning, he was +5.8 runs.

In 2007, they had Winn at 3.3 runs above the average RF offensively. For baserunning, 0.5 runs.

Fred Lewis in 2008, 0.6 runs above LF average. Baserunning, +4.9 runs.

This is just offense.
   41. 1k5v3L Posted: December 28, 2008 at 05:10 PM (#3039171)
Heh, the D-Backs have no chance of winning as many games as the Mets next year. Heh.
But they still have a much greater chance than the Mets of making the playoffs.
You mean the Heimlich manœuvre, CPR is different.
The Mets, and their fans, will need a lot of both in September again. Heimlich for the Mets, CPR for the fans.
   42. 1k5v3L Posted: December 28, 2008 at 05:11 PM (#3039172)
So far Affeldt (Type B) is the only FA signing that will cost them picks.
Type B players don't cost a thing. Just like JLo's love.
   43. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 28, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#3039193)
James projects .300/.349/.494, while CHONE 50th percentile comes in at .275/.328/.447 (the more optimistic James line is around 75th percentile).

Historically, James' projections have been wildly optimistic for every hitter. IIRC, whoever projects in James' name, projects a league where the hitters score about 0.5-0.75 R/G than the pitchers allow.
   44. RJ in TO Posted: December 28, 2008 at 07:58 PM (#3039210)
I'm not going to argue with this, just say a few things - he definitely looks shaky out there at times, but for the most part he rarely makes mistakes out there, and the Fielding Bible actually had him as a good LF in 2007 (sample size alert?).


After watching him this season, I'm inclined to believe that the Fielding Bible's ranking is a result of a small sample - he only had about half a season out there. Really, while he's not historically bad, he just doesn't look like a good fielder. Of course, that's only based on my eyes, and not any real analysis.
   45. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: December 28, 2008 at 08:33 PM (#3039217)
The Dbacks are about as good now as they were at the start of last season, arguably better. And that team won 82 games despite a crappy bullpen. The Giants, despite their moves, are still the 4th best team in the NL West.

The Diamondbacks won 82 games last season and are losing 180+ innings of 117 ERA+ pitching, 4 months of Orlando Hudson, 2 months of Adam Dunn, and their best setup man. A full year of Scherzer will help but this team won't be as good as it was last year. They might win as many or more games but that's because the Giants are the only team in the division that is trying to improve. The NL West was a really bad division last year and is getting worse.
   46. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 28, 2008 at 08:37 PM (#3039219)
whoever projects in James' name, projects a league where the hitters score about 0.5-0.75 R/G than the pitchers allow

...and all the children are above average.

the Giants cannot sign anymore Type A/B free agents who were offered arbitration

Where is this coming from? I was not aware that it makes any difference whether the players are offered arbitration. There's a limit of four type A/B signings per team this year; you can exceed that limit if you also lose some A/B free agents.
   47. Jeff K. Posted: December 28, 2008 at 11:13 PM (#3039247)
I have seen the "this is the last FA team X can sign because of the limit on subset Y of FAs per team" thing mentioned at least five times here and elsewhere, and I have yet to see the assertion stand. Either the person recants on their own or others point out why it's mistaken. Can we put a moratorium on the claim until we figure out exactly what the rules are this offseason? To be fair, before the FA period started, I had zero idea anything like this was happening.
   48. NTNgod Posted: December 28, 2008 at 11:30 PM (#3039251)
Where is this coming from? I was not aware that it makes any difference whether the players are offered arbitration.

It doesn't, I don't believe - just if they're Type A or Type B, according to the CBA (page 86 of the PDF file; page 74 if you go by the written page numbers):
(a) Clubs shall be limited in the number of Type A and B Players,
as defined below, they may subsequently sign to contracts. The
number of signings permitted shall be related to the number of Players
electing free agency under this Section B.
...
There shall be no restrictions on the number of
unranked Players that a Club may sign to contracts.

(b) Irrespective of the provisions of subparagraph (a) above, a
Club shall be eligible to sign at least as many Type A and B Players
as it may have lost through Players having become free agents under
this Section at the close of the season just concluded.
   49. oldjacket Posted: December 29, 2008 at 10:46 PM (#3039871)
Re: trading Jonathan Sanchez
The Giants have no one to take Jonathan Sanchez's rotation spot. If they're trading him to get better offensively they're likely plugging the fifth spot in the rotation with replacement or sub-replacement garbage.
   50. 1k5v3L Posted: December 29, 2008 at 10:54 PM (#3039873)
This signing, of course, was foreshadowed 10 years ago.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Infinite Joost (Voxter)
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(444 - 12:32pm, Jul 28)
Last: ursus arctos

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1957 Discussion
(1 - 12:31pm, Jul 28)
Last: DL from MN

NewsblogO'Connor: Tulo looks more A-Rod than Jeter
(13 - 12:29pm, Jul 28)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(3320 - 12:25pm, Jul 28)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogDodgers and Diamondbacks Triple-A teams involved in wild brawl
(23 - 12:23pm, Jul 28)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogDeadspin: David Ortiz Pissed Off the Rays Again
(28 - 12:20pm, Jul 28)
Last: 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-28-2014
(24 - 12:19pm, Jul 28)
Last: Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band.

NewsblogGossage on Bonds, McGwire Hall hopes: ‘Are you f–king kidding?’
(120 - 12:18pm, Jul 28)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogSchoenfield: Why didn't the Braves win more titles?
(80 - 12:07pm, Jul 28)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogFull Count » Mike Carp explains why he requested a trade from Red Sox
(23 - 11:43am, Jul 28)
Last: Jose Can Still Seabiscuit

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(969 - 11:18am, Jul 28)
Last: tshipman

Newsblog2014 Prospect Watch | MLB.com: UPDATED
(1 - 11:10am, Jul 28)
Last: Davo Dozier

SABR - BBTF ChapterWho's going to SABR??
(102 - 11:03am, Jul 28)
Last: Nineto Lezcano needs to get his shit together (CW)

NewsblogIs It True That Some Players Can’t Hack It in New York?
(1 - 10:56am, Jul 28)
Last: Steve Parris, Je t'aime

NewsblogHall of Fame Announces Changes to Voting Process for Recently Retired Players, Effective Immediately
(85 - 10:48am, Jul 28)
Last: toratoratora

Page rendered in 0.5321 seconds
53 querie(s) executed