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Friday, October 11, 2013

Billboard: Pearl Jam to Soundtrack the World Series

The Bed Wettin’ Bad Boys got passed over for these lumpy skatos?

Pearl Jam’s epic, rain-delayed set at Chicago’s Wrigley Field in July won’t be the only time the band connects with baseball in 2013. A partnership with Fox Sports will include extensive use of 48 Pearl Jam songs across the promotional and music beds for this month’s World Series coverage, set to air Oct. 23-31 on Fox, and feature the group’s music throughout November as Artist of the Month across all Fox Sports properties.

“There was a period of time when we didn’t license much music,” Pearl Jam manager Kelly Curtis says. “But for the past many years, we consider licensing requests using the same criteria we do for everything else: Do we like it? Would the fans like it? Does it provide a different forum for fans to hear the music? Is it something we can get behind? The band loves baseball, so this one was a no-brainer.”

...Fox Sports and MLB have done wide-ranging deals with major rock artists during the past few years, including Jack White during the National League Championship coverage and 30 songs from the Who as the World Series soundtrack, both in 2012. But the Pearl Jam partnership is the largest in terms of number of songs, and perhaps the most personal to boot-not only is frontman Eddie Vedder a lifelong Cubs fan (he brought out legendary Cub Ernie Banks during the Wrigley gig), he’s become close friends with Fox Sports announcer Joe Buck as well. The band played St. Louis during the 2010 leg of its Backspacer tour, where Vedder gave Buck an onstage shout-out and hung out with him for a couple of hours after the show.

“We literally just talked about baseball,” Buck says. “It was the greatest thrill of my life. You’ll hear certain guys say they’re a Yankee fan or an NFL fan, and maybe they know some stuff but they’re not die-hards. This guy’s just a legit, die-hard baseball fan, and I’ve never had a more relaxed, normal conversation in that kind of atmosphere.”

Repoz Posted: October 11, 2013 at 02:17 PM | 107 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Bob Tufts Posted: October 11, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4569348)
Too bad Texas didn't advance deep into the playoffs. It would have been interesting to see if Pearl Jam performed "Bu$hleaguer".
   2. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: October 11, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4569354)
Eddie Vedder a lifelong Cubs fan (he brought out legendary Cub Ernie Banks during the Wrigley gig), he's become close friends with Fox Sports announcer Joe Buck as well.


I am not the biggest Pearl Jam fan ever, but I admire Eddie Vedder and this disappoints me.
   3. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: October 11, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4569363)
Any chance Jeremy Bonderman will be on Detroit's WS roster if they get past Boston?
   4. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: October 11, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4569365)
Nah, he'll be at home drawing pictures.
   5. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4569391)
Ooooh, will they unleash Steve Lyons?
   6. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: October 11, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4569392)
In the 1985 hit Back to the Future, Marty McFly travels thirty years back in time and hilarity ensues as a young teen kid from 1985 has trouble assimilating into the alien culture of 30 years ago while trying to help his teenaged parents.

The founding members of Pearl Jam were 17 and 20 in 1983.
   7. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4569393)
Eddie Vedder...[has] become close friends with Fox Sports announcer Joe Buck as well.

Pearl Jam only plays at being morose and miserable. They can learn from the master.
   8. tfbg9 Posted: October 11, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4569394)
Pearl Jam sucks.
   9. Monty Posted: October 11, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4569409)
Not a verb.
   10. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 11, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4569511)
Pearl Jam. Not very good. So very self important, with every phrase being the more important, earnest, and angsty ever. It makes me tired just listening to them.
   11. Swedish Chef Posted: October 11, 2013 at 05:30 PM (#4569533)
So very self important, with every phrase being the more important, earnest, and angsty ever.

It probably isn't a coincidence that they hit big just when U2 lightened up a bit.
   12. Eric Ferguson Posted: October 11, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4569547)
Eddie, if you lurk around these parts, just know that I love your band despite your allegiance to the Cubs.
   13. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: October 11, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4569552)
Not a verb.

It's a perfectly cromulent verb.
   14. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 11, 2013 at 05:55 PM (#4569553)
Pearl Jam. Not very good. So very self important, with every phrase being the more important, earnest, and angsty ever. It makes me tired just listening to them.


This.
   15. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 11, 2013 at 05:58 PM (#4569555)
Wait, am I in one of those movies where you fall asleep one night and then wake up twenty years ago? Because it was better with Kathleen Turner and doo-wop songs.
   16. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: October 11, 2013 at 07:46 PM (#4569612)
Eddie Vedder a lifelong Cubs fan (he brought out legendary Cub Ernie Banks during the Wrigley gig), he's become close friends with Fox Sports announcer Joe Buck as well.

Until Eddie pretends to wipe his butt on a statue of Elvis, causing Joe to end the friendship.
   17. Bobvila Posted: October 11, 2013 at 11:13 PM (#4569867)
wrong. PJ has released great album after great album.. New stuff is great. You need to listen to the newer stuff. Or Riot Act (2003). they get better. 10 is my least favorite disc.
   18. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 11, 2013 at 11:25 PM (#4569915)
wrong. PJ has released great album after great album..


That's soooooooooooooooo cute!

How are things in Jones- ... I mean, Veddertown?

Have some more Flavor-Aid! (Not that you appear to need any.)
   19. Select Storage Device Posted: October 11, 2013 at 11:39 PM (#4569944)
FOX marketing at its finest. It certainly beats the Scott Stapp Marlins song.

God, I can't think of much more I don't want to hear than PJ World Series songs. Merzbow I guess.

Edit: Oh, licensing. Like Moby. Fine.
   20. Select Storage Device Posted: October 11, 2013 at 11:47 PM (#4569966)
“There was a period of time when we didn’t license much music,” Pearl Jam manager Kelly Curtis says. “But for the past many years, we consider licensing requests using the same criteria we do for everything else: Do we like it? Would the fans like it? Does it provide a different forum for fans to hear the music? Is it something we can get behind? The band loves baseball, so this one was a no-brainer.”


LOL

I am curious to know how bad of a deal this was for MLB/FOX. If they rarely license their music then there is a premium, but the fact that they are Pearl Jam means no one really gives a donkey so they can't command that much either -- so, it probably meets somewhere in the middle, which means a bad deal for FOX/MLB because they spent even a little bit too much money on Pearl Jam music for the freakin' 2013 MLB Playoffs.
   21. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 11, 2013 at 11:54 PM (#4569989)
I think we can assume that Silverchair didn't listen when Fox called.
   22. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 12, 2013 at 12:11 AM (#4570067)
"The band loves baseball, so this one was a no-brainer."


Say what you want about their music (and I like it), they are real baseball fans, especially Vedder, McCready, and Ament.
   23. Mom makes botox doctors furious Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:32 AM (#4570239)
What does the fox say?
   24. Drexl Spivey Posted: October 12, 2013 at 04:25 AM (#4570241)
I think we can assume that Silverchair didn't listen when Fox called.


I realize that you were attempting to make a joke, but PJ has gotten better since the 90's.

   25. Drexl Spivey Posted: October 12, 2013 at 04:37 AM (#4570242)
Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?
   26. Swedish Chef Posted: October 12, 2013 at 05:42 AM (#4570245)
Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?

I doubt there's really a critical mass of Pavement fans, but that's the official answer until proven otherwise.

Probably only unreconstructed punks would object if they went with Beatles.
   27. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: October 12, 2013 at 09:29 AM (#4570266)
Thank God they didn't go the "Spandeau Ballet" route. How many times can you play "True" in one series?
   28. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: October 12, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4570273)
Say what you want about their music (and I like it)


Won't watch movies or TV shows about criminals, excluding a huge number of great works of art; digs Pearl Jam...you, my friend, are a strange bird. Long may you run.
   29. Repoz Posted: October 12, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4570274)
Pearl Jam. Not very good. So very self important, with every phrase being the more important, earnest, and angsty ever. It makes me tired just listening to them.

You misspelled The National.
   30. bunyon Posted: October 12, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4570276)

Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?


None. Which is why I think it's usually a bad idea for anyone to align too closely with any artist. All artists (using the word simply to mean folks who make or create art of any form, not some snooty definition) are loved and hated to varying degrees. The idea that "no one cares about Pearl Jam" is absurd. They sell lots of albums, their concerts sell out, hell, they even have a satellite radio channel. None of that means there aren't lots of people who don't care for/hate them and will be turned off by it. My guess is the whole business is more or less revenue neutral (which does make it a bad deal for FOX).

Will it bring more fans to FOX than it moves away? How hard core are the anti-Pearl Jam folks here? Will you not watch because of it? OTOH, will any Pearl Jam fans who don't like baseball come watch because of this? Do they have no other way to access the band?


And, yes, they're big baseball fans. So at least it isn't Springsteen at the Super Bowl.

Without RTFA, I wonder if we can get them to do their own version of GBA? That'd be a hoot.
   31. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: October 12, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4570277)
Now I'm imagining Pavement soundtracking the World Series. That would be a fun thread.
   32. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2013 at 11:47 AM (#4570330)
Stevie Wonder.
   33. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 12, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4570342)
Stevie Wonder.


He'll be umpiring. As usual.
   34. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: October 12, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4570350)
My guess is the whole business is more or less revenue neutral (which does make it a bad deal for FOX).

Will it bring more fans to FOX than it moves away? How hard core are the anti-Pearl Jam folks here? Will you not watch because of it? OTOH, will any Pearl Jam fans who don't like baseball come watch because of this? Do they have no other way to access the band?
My guess is that the only reason FOX has weird tie-ins like "Artist of the Month across all FOX Sports properties" is so that FOX executives can hang out with their favorite bands.
   35. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 12, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4570358)
Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?


None.

The solution to all of baseball's musical endeavors: The mute button on your remote. Too bad you can't bring it to the ballpark.
   36. puck Posted: October 12, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4570360)
Thank God they didn't go the "Spandeau Ballet" route. How many times can you play "True" in one series?

There was that car ad with the couples singing "True" in the car. That ad seemed like it played 30 times a night.
   37. Booey Posted: October 12, 2013 at 01:35 PM (#4570383)
wrong. PJ has released great album after great album.. New stuff is great. You need to listen to the newer stuff. Or Riot Act (2003). they get better. 10 is my least favorite disc.


Pretty much the exact opposite of how I see it. I liked them just fine in the beginning, but IMO pretty much every album was worse than the previous one. I think they'd be viewed better historically if they'd quit 10 years ago before they ran out of ideas.
   38. Baldrick Posted: October 12, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4570390)
Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?

Bob Dylan. But only if it was exclusively his Christmas polka songs.
   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 12, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4570404)
Can Frank Caliendo play guitar?
   40. Hysterical & Useless Posted: October 12, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4570417)
I first heard Pearl Jam when I was in my early 40s, liked them immediately, and still do 20 years later. I have no problem with "earnest," and I think Eddie Vedder is a terrific singer. Big disappointment that he would want to hang out with Joe Buck, but that really has nothing to do with his music (hey, Neil Young supported Reagan). Are they the greatest band ever? No, of course not. [One of the members, forget which, once described them as "a pretty average white band who happen to have a great singer." I'd place them better than average, but I like the self-deprecation.] I think they've made a lot of really enjoyable music and I'm glad they're able to make a living at it.
   41. tfbg9 Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4570421)
Liking PJ is an immediate disqualifier for taking anything else a guy says remotely seriously, YMMV.
   42. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4570422)
Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?

Nobody hates the Ramones.
   43. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:18 PM (#4570424)
Liking PJ is an immediate disqualifier for taking anything else a guy says remotely seriously,


If the guy in question is over, say, 17 ... definitely.
   44. tfbg9 Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:27 PM (#4570427)
edit-never mind
   45. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4570429)
(hey, Neil Young supported Reagan)


Can this be true?
   46. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4570435)
Neil Young's Reagan support was contrarian and cantankerous, but yup, he did. He now kinda sorta says he did it to antagonize two reporters and it was blown out of proportion. But Young kinda sorta says everything.
   47. tfbg9 Posted: October 12, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4570443)
Neil blows a lot of weed, is what I heard.
   48. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: October 12, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4570455)
Larry King time:

Not sure what Reagan would be like were he born 30 years later, but he's a lot better than 80% of the current Republicans. John McCain may immanetize the Eschaton if he had the power, but I have a soft spot for him.

If they remade, Back to The Future, would they substitute a Tesla for the DeLorean?

The World Series soundtrack, should such a thing exist, must be performed by someone more like Nancy Faust or John Kiley.

That said, one of my favorite BTF handles of all time was "Jerry Remy Spoke in Class Today."
   49. nick swisher hygiene Posted: October 12, 2013 at 04:32 PM (#4570457)
Pearl Jam are up there with Springsteen in that they combine generic dude rockingness--nothing weird or glam or pop here--with good politics in a way that makes them at least tolerable (for musical or political reasons) to vast numbers of people.

In fact, Pearl Jam just are the Alternative™ Springsteen.

Edit: Though their early stuff doesn't touch Bruces's early stuff....
   50. Jay Z Posted: October 12, 2013 at 04:44 PM (#4570464)
Serious question: Which band would receive the least amount of criticism on this board if their songs were to play during the World Series?


Freddie And The Dreamers
   51. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: October 12, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4570470)
[49] They're both older acts--old enough to have *had* mass appeal. That still exists to some extent for pop groups, but rock is much more nichey since grunge*. If you look at the Super Bowl, they've done a series of current R&B/pop groups over the past few years, preceeded by a run of dinosaurs (the Who, McCartney, Tom Petty, Stones). Pearl Jam have settled down from topping the charts to a smaller, more devoted fanbase, but most anybody over 25 (30?) has at least heard of them. There just aren't many current/prime rock groups out there that can say that.

*Besides general internet-related cultural fragmentation, I'll say that hip-hop and country took a much bigger place on MTV and the mainstream generally, the whole rap-metal thing that followed grunge was just horrible, and the Strokes-y response to that has been much more indie than arena.
   52. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: October 12, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4570474)
... too late to edit 51; in addition to all of that, I completely forgot to blame the expanded playoffs.
   53. BDC Posted: October 12, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4570505)
Can't imagine anyone here complaining about Cab Calloway. Well, unless they played "Minnie the Moocher" during every game, like they do at the Ballpark.
   54. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 12, 2013 at 05:42 PM (#4570506)
Pearl Jam is a good band. I don't think they're the greatest in the world, but I'm surprised they inspire so much hatred.
   55. AJMcCringleberry Posted: October 12, 2013 at 05:52 PM (#4570527)
Pearl Jam is a good band. I don't think they're the greatest in the world, but I'm surprised they inspire so much hatred.

My thoughts as well.
   56. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: October 12, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4570536)
-seen as derivative of the NW scene on arrival rightly or wrongly
-Eddie Vedder got quoted a lot
-their politics and activism
-they were pretty huge for a while, which you need to inspire any emotion on that scale
-after being huge they decided they didn't like it and basically told a lot of people who'd bought their CDs to #### off rightly or wrongly
Edit: and since then they've developed a devoted following that defends them strongly

The "being pretty huge for a while" is carrying a lot of weight; I'm not surprised that they inspire hatred in the same way that I'm not surprised they got asked to do this.
   57. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 12, 2013 at 07:14 PM (#4570596)
Speaking of a couple of acts of whom we were speaking of, this clip is one of the better live performances you'll see on TV. Would've been even better if they all did The Freddie during the choruses, but you can't have everything.
   58. Bitter Mouse Posted: October 12, 2013 at 07:40 PM (#4570603)
Pearl Jam is a good band. I don't think they're the greatest in the world, but I'm surprised they inspire so much hatred.


I don't hate them. I just find them very tiresome. I like the occasional song of theirs every once in a while, but I can't imagine listening to a whole album all at once. I just don't have that much angst nor do I love to wallow in it, but I recognize may folks do.
   59. Monty Posted: October 12, 2013 at 08:45 PM (#4570649)
Can't imagine anyone here complaining about Cab Calloway.


Let's see what happens if we go to commercial on "Kickin' the Gong Around."
   60. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 12, 2013 at 09:33 PM (#4570693)
You misspelled The National.


This hasn't gotten anywhere near the love it deserves, Repo Man.

Pearl Jam is a good band. I don't think they're the greatest in the world, but I'm surprised they inspire so much hatred.


I was a Pearl Jam fan through Vitalogy. Then I found other avenues of musical interest and they didn't. I harbor no real ill will toward the lumbering oafs. They're certainly earnest, and I think it's cute that they let Eddie hold a guitar as if he can play that thing. But I haven't listened to a Pearl Jam song in... Huh. Did you know the baby that was featured in the pool on the cover of Nevermind is old enough to drink?

What I do hate is the inability to decide on a singular or plural reference to a band. If Pearl Jam is a good band, then it isn't the greatest in the world and it inspires hatred, not they or them. Dammit.

Anyway. You'd be better served listening to the new Four Fists seven inch.
   61. toratoratora Posted: October 13, 2013 at 12:38 AM (#4570960)
The irony here is that Pearl Jam is one band that should be totally accepted by the indie scene folks. Their pedigree is almost impeccable. Stone Gossard and Jeff Amant along with Mark Arm were in Green River which led to Mudhoney, Malfunkshun,Sub Pop and MotherLoveBone. With that sort of lineage one would expect them to be critical darlings.
Toss in the fact that the band formed during the Temple of the Dog sessions, that Vedder was given the original tape he recorded the Mamasan trilogy songs on by Jack Irons and these guys are hard core rooted in the punk circles.
Not to mention that they basically blew the years when they were the biggest band in the world suing Ticketbastard. They lost millions there. Not the best career move. Then the post Cobain(Caveat-while not the biggest PJ fan,I saw em the night news came out that Cobain died and it was chilling-just an unreal show) decision to avoid the publicity machines,not take part in MTV,shirk most publicity-man, that's the sort of stuff that usually gets lapped up.
While I understand the dislike towards Vedder, it always catches me a bit off guard hearing the disdain to the band itself. These guys paid their dues.
   62. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:22 AM (#4570990)
The irony here is that Pearl Jam is one band that should be totally accepted by the indie scene folks. Their pedigree is almost impeccable.


Considering that Pearl Jam sort of makes boring standard rock songs, I think their acceptance by the likes of Sleater Kinney, Sonic Youth and other big figures of the Indie scene, speaks to a general respect for their integrity and back story. Look, it's not their entirely fault that frat bros around the world all think Pearl Jam is on the same level as The Stones, but they do make music that is right in their wheelhouse. Groups like Nickelback and Seven Mary Three and a lot of crappy crappy high testosterone sensitive deep voice emo are the direct result of Pearl Jam's popularity. I've tried to listen to Pearl Jame post Vitology and it all blends into one long horse-dying drone with pretty boring rock riffs. I did like Vedder's score for that Sean Penn Into The Wild movie though.
   63. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:23 AM (#4570991)
You misspelled The National.



This hasn't gotten anywhere near the love it deserves, Repo Man.


I guess it's a guilty pleasure here that I like the National. I mean they're not the most exciting group but I like the tunes. Are they overhyped? Sure.
   64. toratoratora Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4570994)
Considering that Pearl Jam sort of makes boring standard rock songs, I think their acceptance by the likes of Sleater Kinney, Sonic Youth and other big figures of the Indie scene, speaks to a general respect for their integrity and back story. Look, it's not their entirely fault that frat bros around the world all think Pearl Jam is on the same level as The Stones, but they do make music that is right in their wheelhouse. Groups like Nickelback and Seven Mary Three and a lot of crappy crappy high testosterone sensitive deep voice emo are the direct result of Pearl Jam's popularity. I've tried to listen to Pearl Jame post Vitology and it all blends into one long horse-dying drone with pretty boring rock riffs. I did like Vedder's score for that Sean Penn Into The Wild movie though.

I agree with most of this,but I still find it somewhat funny that pretty much from Day 1 PJ has had to defend themselves as being authentic. Especially since Nirvana and Kurt pretty much immediately became the media darlings as all cutting edge and true. Whereas the reality is that while Kurt was a hero worshipping roadie for The Melvins, Gossard and Amant were out there playing craphole clubs, touring the coast and acting as one of the catalysts of the whole Seattle "scene." They, along with the Melvins, paved the way for Nirvana,yet Nirvana gets all the credit for being hardcore and PJ gets #### on, which kinda sucks. Trace things around and they,especially the Gossard/Amant duo,were far more influential than they get credit for
I blame most of that on Vedder-he's just one of those guys that folks seem to easily hate and he's, by band choice, pretty much the band spokesman which twists the perception of them.
Still, it is wild seeing how culture accepts the truths they want to see and attach labels to them, whether based in reality or not.
   65. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4570995)
I've tried to listen to Pearl Jame post Vitology and it all blends into one long horse-dying drone with pretty boring rock riffs. I did like Vedder's score for that Sean Penn Into The Wild movie though.


I think I own one Pearl Jam disc -- the "Spin the Black Circle" single, which is pretty damned solid. If "Betterman" had come across my path used, I'd have picked it up, too. Ditto for the engagingly sparse PJ (or Cheddar solo? not sure how it was marketed) cover of J. Frank Wilson's irresistible "Last Kiss." That's about it.

Not a fan, obviously, but when I first encountered them as one of the lower-profile opening acts in the 2nd (I think) Lollapalooza main-stage lineup in Dallas in I guess 8/92, I did perk up considerably when they inserted "Sonic Reducer" amidst the more or less generic-sounding originals. Having excellent taste counts for something, I'd say.
   66. BDC Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:51 AM (#4570998)
boring standard rock songs

I was driving across the country last summer, with satellite radio in my rental vehicle, and I'd flip back and forth between the Pearl Jam channel and several others, including the 1960s channel. At one point I heard Steppenwolf's "Born to Be Wild" right after a couple of Pearl Jam songs, and thought, well, "Born to Be Wild" is a lot rougher and a whole lot earlier, and it's therefore exciting (especially when you're listening to extended playlists of 1960s pop songs!) in a way that Pearl Jam, however sharp and technically accomplished their work, can't match. That's no reflection on the quality of their music, which as several here have said, is fine. I would be the last one to criticize artists for not being out on a cutting edge somewhere; still less do I think that the music that I heard when I was 10 years old is the height of human achievement. But it does strike me that bands like Pearl Jam are in a studied, imitative tradition (the word "classic" gets properly applied).
   67. Chicago Joe Posted: October 13, 2013 at 10:35 AM (#4571023)
You misspelled The National.


I like their sound. I do get the sense that their lyrics are tongue-in-cheek.
   68. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: October 13, 2013 at 10:45 AM (#4571030)
I agree with most of this,but I still find it somewhat funny that pretty much from Day 1 PJ has had to defend themselves as being authentic. Especially since Nirvana and Kurt pretty much immediately became the media darlings as all cutting edge and true.


Agreed. This happened in large part because of Cobain who was a pretty messed up dude and who shat on Vedder in interviews. Rock critics had basically elevated Cobain to this genius status pretty early in the game and hung on his word even though he was fairly inarticulate in interviews and was a confused young man (I mean he married Courtney Love! Thing about that for a second.)
   69. nick swisher hygiene Posted: October 13, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4571052)
Eddie beats Kurt in basically every area except one, but that one is, well, kinda important: writing great songs.

Whatever one think of the Pearl Jam sound, however much you wanna scorn Kurt as depressive alternateen idol, Nirvana had great pop songs.
That's why they were the band from the scene that broke: not because they were "most representative" of that scene. Great pop songs (and a ton of luck)


   70. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: October 13, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4571131)
Nobody hates the Ramones.


I do, with passion. Talentless, boring, ugly, stupid, never wrote a good song, but were made famous by the proto-hipsters who chose to like a band not for its music but strictly for ideological/social* reasons. Remain famous because of those people's ideological descendants, who are now legion and plague not just pop music appreciation, but the culture around and criticism of all types of pop art.

* Frivolous or petty social reasons; specifically, used as a tool by a comparatively well-educated yet somewhat socially inferior (AND artistically untalented) white middle class person to condescend to a less well-educated, somewhat socially superior (OR artistically talented) white person of the same class.
   71. Lassus Posted: October 13, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4571142)
And who do you actually like, then?

Also, no one is arguing their ugliness.
   72. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4571144)
I do, with passion. Talentless, boring, ugly, stupid, never wrote a good song, but were made famous by the proto-hipsters who chose to like a band not for its music but strictly for ideological/social* reasons.


"Creee-tiiin, creee-tiiin ..."

Seriously, though -- what an obviously hopeless case.

Get help.
   73. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 02:13 PM (#4571145)
And who do you actually like, then?


Probably ####### Rush or some such absolute ####.

Or -- god help us -- ELP or the ghastly like.
   74. zonk Posted: October 13, 2013 at 02:52 PM (#4571170)
Pearl Jam is a good band. I don't think they're the greatest in the world, but I'm surprised they inspire so much hatred.

My thoughts as well.


Thirded.

I think I have maybe 3 or 4 PJ songs in my itunes library and I don't believe I ever owned a PJ album (might have had Vs. on CD once upon a time). I'm not a big fan, but I think they're a fine band. Maybe a bit too earnest at times, but I generally don't fault people for caring about things. I respect the hell out of them - as noted by someone above - for taking on Ticketmaster and almost certainly costing themselves big money.

I think their music lacks much in the way of range - it's one thing to have a 'sound', but musically, I just don't hear much different from them now than I heard 20 years ago.

They make solid rock music.... on occasion, they even do that exceptionally well.

I don't think I'd have much trouble naming 50 bands I'd rather listen to them, but it's not like I'd vomit with rage if someone happened to spotify them at a party or anything....
   75. Monty Posted: October 13, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4571203)
Talentless, boring, ugly, stupid, never wrote a good song, but were made famous by the proto-hipsters who chose to like a band not for its music but strictly for ideological/social* reasons.


I listen to the Ramones because I like their music, not because of vaguely defined ideological/social reasons.

That said, my primary disagreement is that I think they wrote one great song, which they then gave sixty different names to.
   76. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 13, 2013 at 04:17 PM (#4571206)
I agree with most of this,but I still find it somewhat funny that pretty much from Day 1 PJ has had to defend themselves as being authentic. Especially since Nirvana and Kurt pretty much immediately became the media darlings as all cutting edge and true. Whereas the reality is that while Kurt was a hero worshipping roadie for The Melvins, Gossard and Amant were out there playing craphole clubs, touring the coast and acting as one of the catalysts of the whole Seattle "scene." They, along with the Melvins, paved the way for Nirvana,yet Nirvana gets all the credit for being hardcore and PJ gets #### on, which kinda sucks. Trace things around and they,especially the Gossard/Amant duo,were far more influential than they get credit for
I blame most of that on Vedder-he's just one of those guys that folks seem to easily hate and he's, by band choice, pretty much the band spokesman which twists the perception of them.
Still, it is wild seeing how culture accepts the truths they want to see and attach labels to them, whether based in reality or not.


Agree completely. And while it's true that he's a late arrival to the band, Matt Cameron was in both Skin Yard and Soundgarden before coming to Pearl Jam. So, yeah, their pedigree in the 1980s Seattle scene is pretty impeccable. But I think a lot of people in Seattle had a built-in bias against Vedder from the start, considering him an interloper, an outsider from California, instead of a native...
   77. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 13, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4571210)
I listen to the Ramones because I like their music, not because of vaguely defined ideological/social reasons.

That said, my primary disagreement is that I think they wrote one great song, which they then gave sixty different names to.


I probably actually listen to the Ramones less than any other band that I really like. They're rock's greatest one-trick pony (along with AC/DC). What they do, they do incredibly well. But it's technically limited, and lacking in much range. I'll put on Leave Home or Road to Ruin, play that through, enjoy it, and then not feel I need to hear The Ramones again for several months.
   78. Good cripple hitter Posted: October 13, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4571216)
That said, my primary disagreement is that I think they wrote one great song, which they then gave sixty different names to.


That reminds me of a bit from an article Richard Hell wrote on the Ramones in 1976:

The first song the Ramones wrote was "I Don’t Wanna Walk Around With You," the second was "I Don’t Wanna Get Involved With You," then came "I Don’t Wanna Be Learned I Don’t Wanna Be Tamed," soon followed by "I Don’t Wanna Go Down to the Basement." So Dee Dee says, "We didn’t write a positive song until 'Now I Want to Sniff Some Glue.'"
   79. Baldrick Posted: October 13, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4571226)
The Ramones are fine. But I've never been able to wrap my mind around the idea of *loving* them. They just play standard 60s pop songs with slightly louder guitars. And again, that's fine. But I'll listen to The Buzzcocks or The Clash or The Damned or Television or pretty much any other early punk band rather than them.

Ramones songs pretty much all sound incredibly compressed, like there's no aural space in them at all. Maybe that's just a function of only getting them in recorded form - and growing up after punk had time to develop - so I'm measuring them against an unfair standard. But...they're mostly background music to me.

Pearl Jam: I can't think of the last time I intentionally listened to them, but it was probably not this millennium. I had a few friends growing up in the Northwest in their heyday who were HUGE fans so I heard a lot that way. Never hated them, and they seem like they've got their hearts in the right places. Just not my cup of tea. That their lineage includes some of the worst music in human history (Nickelback, et al) can't really be held against them, and more than you can blame Sunny Day Real Estate for what happened to emo.
   80. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: October 13, 2013 at 05:40 PM (#4571234)
Or -- god help us -- ELP or the ghastly like.

I initially read this as "El-P" and was very confused.

Never liked the Ramones or Pearl Jam (not from my subgenres anyway), though each ran into a few solid tunes.
   81. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:05 PM (#4571288)
That said, my primary disagreement is that I think they wrote one great song, which they then gave sixty different names to.


A common observation, but of course utterly absurd if you listen to the very atypical likes of "You Don't Come Close," "Questioningly" or "Bonzo Goes to Bitberg" ... & that's from someone who owns maybe (but probably less than) half their LPs, has listened to very little of those after the first 3 (none of which includes the cited songs; I think the first couple I mentioned are on the 4th, Road to Ruin), & even then probably goes more than a decade between listening to those ... a commentary, I should add, far less on the band than on the absurd amount of music I own & still haven't gotten around to giving CD player or turntable (or, god help me casette deck) time to.

I doubt that any of the albums are in my top 100 ... maybe the debut, but probably not. Definitely not one of my top 100 bands. Doesn't matter. Probably *casting about wildly for baseball name off the top of my head* Kiki Cuyler isn't in my top 100 baseball players either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a helluva hitter or whatever.

Ignorance isn't pretty, people. If you don't know WTF you're talking about, maybe you should just wait till a topic comes up that you're at least mildly acquainted with. (Yes, that applies to me as well.)

Which I know would not only ruin BTF as we know it but also the whole internet, not to mention most public discourse, period.
   82. rr Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:35 PM (#4571306)
Ignorance isn't pretty, people. If you don't know WTF you're talking about, maybe you should just wait till a topic comes up that you're at least mildly acquainted with. (Yes, that applies to me as well.)

Which I know would not only ruin BTF


Heh.
   83. Monty Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:43 PM (#4571318)
I didn't say all Ramones songs were the same. I said all great Ramones songs were the same.

Ignorance isn't pretty, people. If you don't know WTF you're talking about, maybe you should just wait till a topic comes up that you're at least mildly acquainted with.


It's possible for someone to have a different opinion than you without them being ignorant. It's also possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.
   84. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:47 PM (#4571324)
I said all great Ramones songs were the same.


Do you know the ones I named?

It's possible for someone to have a different opinion than you without them being ignorant. It's also .


Of course. That placement of your quote was unfortunate -- I was really referring to a couple of other people who I thought were talking out of their posteriors, not you. Well-deserved apologies.

Also, given my admittedly black, shriveled hard of hearts & the poison & acid (hydrochloric type, not lysergic type) flowing through my veins, it probably isn't "possible (for me) to disagree with someone without insulting them" if I'm still struggling to wake up from a long, hard nap, as happens to be the case. (You should've seen the typos & crap I had to go back & rectify.)
   85. rr Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:48 PM (#4571327)
BTW, other than thinking that they are pretty cool, I am totally ignorant about The Ramones. I was just chuckling at gef's general observation WRT BTF, not bagging on Monty or taking a side. gef does know a lot about certain kinds of music.
   86. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:52 PM (#4571331)
gef does know a lot about certain kinds of music.


That's what it says on my business card!

No wonder I can't get a better job ...
   87. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:55 PM (#4571336)
But no, honestly, Monty's cool. Again, he wasn't the target of my coment about ignorance at all. His was, to my mind, a perfectly decent throwaway line, the equivalent of which I've used many times, as in "just about every American band I hear these days sounds like Sonic Youth," which I remember telling a friend circa 2000 during his big Yo La Tengo phase (that for all I know wasn't a phase at all). Wasn't literally true by any stretch of the imagination, but nonetheless had a core of truth. Or something like that.
   88. rr Posted: October 13, 2013 at 08:58 PM (#4571338)
No wonder I can't get a better job ...


Take that shitt to the shutdown thread. ;-)

Repoz is awesome; invites to bag on Pearl Jam and U2 work almost as well for him as Heyman, Pearlman, Chass and stuff about blacks in baseball or team nicknames do. This is the fifth or sixth Eddie Vedder/Pearl Jam thread in the last three years or so.

But I am musically ignorant, so I do learn stuff on BTF music threads.
   89. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4571345)
Repoz' taste in & knowledge of super-obscure oldies & punk make me feel like someone who listens exclusively to 100 Strings. Jesus. Outside of probably '80s UK anarchopunk, I can't think of a single subgenre I can even touch the hem of his trenchcoat (he probably wears a leather jacket, anyway) with regard to knowledge about. (Terribly constructed sentence, that. See previous observation about still waking up from very solid nap.)


Edit: Well, & the Phoenix scene from '81-'84. That dilettante ############ was screwing around in NYC instead, the wuss.
   90. Monty Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:12 PM (#4571359)
Do you know the ones I named?


Bonzo Goes to Bitburg, but not the other ones.

But no, honestly, Monty's cool.


Aw, shucks.
   91. rr Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4571407)
I can't think of a single subgenre I can even touch the hem of his trenchcoat (he probably wears a leather jacket, anyway) with regard to knowledge about


Yeah, but I know more about The Mekons than I did prior to talking to you.
   92. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:47 PM (#4571413)
Cool! But hell, Repoz probably had group sex with the band during a wild weekend back in 1978 or something during their previously unknown initial foray into the States.

While Lou Reed watched. And Madonna waited outside.
   93. rr Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:51 PM (#4571421)
I think I would rather have Madonna watching and Lou waiting outside in that scenario, myself.
   94. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 13, 2013 at 09:53 PM (#4571426)
Well, so would I.

But hey, y'know -- just Repoz being Repoz, man.
   95. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 14, 2013 at 01:15 AM (#4571775)
I was really referring to a couple of other people who I thought were talking out of their posteriors, not you.


Just out of curiosity, whom would that be?
   96. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 14, 2013 at 01:52 AM (#4571784)
I probably shouldn't have posted #95, and now I can't edit it. Please ignore it.
   97. Repoz Posted: October 14, 2013 at 06:41 AM (#4571809)
Hey, I only uhh...danced with Madonna.
   98. zonk Posted: October 14, 2013 at 07:54 AM (#4571821)
Hey, I only uhh...danced with Madonna.


Because that's what they called it back then?
   99. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 14, 2013 at 07:57 AM (#4571822)
#95 -- Done.
   100. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: October 14, 2013 at 08:42 AM (#4571833)
That said, my primary disagreement is that I think they wrote one great song, which they then gave sixty different names to.


I see your point, I just don't think that one song was that great.

And who do you actually like, then?


Probably ####### Rush or some such absolute ####.

Or -- god help us -- ELP or the ghastly like.


Ahh, you think you have me pegged! Boxcar Willie, Slim Whitman, Baltimora, Emmett Otter's Jugband, O'Death, King Diamond, Anne Murray....I only listen to the classics. Actually, prog IS great but I never got into ELP. If I listen to punk it's the Stranglers, Sex Pistols, and the Clash... what do I really like? New Wave and early synthpop, because I like spacey sounds and melody. Flame away.

They're rock's greatest one-trick pony (along with AC/DC)


There's something superficially true to that but it gives way too much credit to the Ramones and too little credit to AC/DC who, in the Bon Scott years, were one of the best punk bands ever in the rebelliousness/class resentment sense but never acknowledged as such, presumably because they actually understood melody and could play their instruments (other possible reasons: bc they were from Oz rather than England or Hellhole, NY; bc they were sarcastically angry and sometimes silly, rather than strictly humorless and bitter).
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