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Wednesday, September 04, 2013

Billy Hamilton Steals Base in MLB Debut

Hamilton—a pinch-runner—stole second on Yadier Molina and then scored on a Todd Frazier double. The Reds went on to win, 1-0, and creep to within 1.5 games of the Cardinals for the top wild card spot.

How many will Hamilton steal in a full MLB season? I’m saying at least 100.

The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 04, 2013 at 02:36 PM | 46 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: billy hamilton, reds

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   1. Blastin Posted: September 04, 2013 at 06:08 PM (#4534396)
It depends on if he manages to get on base enough.
   2. Steve Treder Posted: September 04, 2013 at 06:12 PM (#4534399)
It's perfect that his name is Billy Hamilton.

Woe to the modern-day prospect named Bill Bergen.
   3. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: September 04, 2013 at 06:14 PM (#4534401)
How many will Hamilton steal in a full MLB season? I’m saying at least 100.
All as a pinch-runner.
   4. The District Attorney Posted: September 04, 2013 at 06:15 PM (#4534404)
Woe to the modern-day prospect named Bill Bergen.
Better than Marty...
   5. Steve Treder Posted: September 04, 2013 at 06:23 PM (#4534409)
Good point.
   6. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: September 04, 2013 at 07:15 PM (#4534455)
Bad throw by Molina. He should've been out.
   7. jdennis Posted: September 04, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4534462)
it wasn't his offense, that was stand-able. he was trash defensively. unless he significantly improved when he moved to center.
   8. Howie Menckel Posted: September 04, 2013 at 07:30 PM (#4534465)

Remember Allan Lewis, the forerunner - literally - to Herb Washington?

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/75f838b4

   9. Dan Posted: September 04, 2013 at 07:32 PM (#4534467)
Billy Hamilton Steals Base in MLB Debut


That's got to be a contender for least surprising headline of the year.
   10. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: September 04, 2013 at 07:38 PM (#4534469)
That's got to be a contender for least surprising headline of the year.


Close. I would say something on the order of...

Phillips Reds MVP, Votto not getting it done again!
   11. Steve Treder Posted: September 04, 2013 at 07:43 PM (#4534473)
Remember Allan Lewis, the forerunner - literally - to Herb Washington?

Absolutely. The Panamanian Express!
   12. Rob_Wood Posted: September 04, 2013 at 10:10 PM (#4534621)

Was he the guy that Johnny Bench threw out stealing twice or was he the guy that Mike Marshall picked off in the World Series?

Anyway, was a track star pinch runner ever tried again??
   13. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 04, 2013 at 10:12 PM (#4534628)
Bad throw by Molina. He should've been out.

Looked like it sailed high because he understandably rushed it.
   14. God Posted: September 04, 2013 at 11:33 PM (#4534717)
Aaaaand... the same thing happened again tonight, except this time he pinch-ran in the bottom of the 14th, stole second, and scored the tying run on a single.
   15. Steve Treder Posted: September 04, 2013 at 11:34 PM (#4534719)
Go Sliding Billy Go!
   16. Gonfalon B. Posted: September 05, 2013 at 12:15 AM (#4534800)
He's on pace for 24 steals, 24 runs, and no plate appearances!
   17. cardsfanboy Posted: September 05, 2013 at 12:20 AM (#4534802)
Aaaaand... the same thing happened again tonight, except this time he pinch-ran in the bottom of the 14th, stole second, and scored the tying run on a single


And of course the non-call on batter's interference didn't help one bit.
   18. God Posted: September 05, 2013 at 12:25 AM (#4534807)
It wasn't close to being interference. Molina tried awkwardly to feign it at the end of the play, but the ump wasn't buying his weak-ass ####. It was pretty ludicrous that the Cardinals even argued the play.
   19. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: September 05, 2013 at 12:43 AM (#4534816)
Wait, Hamilton stole another base, this time in the bottom of the 14th, and the clip isn't already up on the Reds site?
   20. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: September 05, 2013 at 01:01 AM (#4534821)
It wasn't close to being interference. Molina tried awkwardly to feign it at the end of the play, but the ump wasn't buying his weak-ass ####. It was pretty ludicrous that the Cardinals even argued the play.


God clearly has not read the interference rule. It's 6.06(c), will take you five seconds to do so. The only noted exception is if he swings around and hits the catcher in the back of the head.

Batter was WAY out of the batter's box, one foot in the OTHER batter's box, and made contact with the catcher; was clearly a blown call.

Anyway, didn't matter, because Matt Adams hit two extra innings home runs. Wow.
   21. Pokey Reese's Pieces Posted: September 05, 2013 at 01:13 AM (#4534828)
Nice win by the Cards. They are still the best team in the Central. That said, I'm starting to wonder if Cards fans were named "best fans in baseball" because they whined and complained that they weren't named "best fans in baseball".
   22. Perry Posted: September 05, 2013 at 01:20 AM (#4534832)
Matt Adams the seventh player in history to hit 2 extra-inning homers in a game. And he didn't start!
   23. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: September 05, 2013 at 01:28 AM (#4534836)
That said, I'm starting to wonder if Cards fans were named "best fans in baseball" because they whined and complained that they weren't named "best fans in baseball".
FWIW, a google search for "best fans in baseball" tells me that the Giants have the best fans in baseball. I'm guessing "businessinsider" paid a lot for that ad link served as an actual article, but it would be interesting to catalog which teams fans HAVEN'T been called the "best fans", and ask why. You could make a lot of arguments.

Anyway, Hamilton should have been sent back, the batter should have been out, and we should have seen the whole thing played out again with the next batter. That's the rules of baseball, and the umpire got it wrong.
   24. God Posted: September 05, 2013 at 01:34 AM (#4534840)
God clearly has not read the interference rule. It's 6.06(c), will take you five seconds to do so. The only noted exception is if he swings around and hits the catcher in the back of the head.

Batter was WAY out of the batter's box, one foot in the OTHER batter's box, and made contact with the catcher; was clearly a blown call.


I know the rule, thanks. But there was no contact made, and hence no interference.
   25. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: September 05, 2013 at 01:52 AM (#4534849)
I know the rule, thanks. But there was no contact made, and hence no interference.

Clearly you don't, since the rule doesn't say there has to be contact. I just threw that in as troll thing, because I knew you'd argue on some kind of technicality grounds.

And you did. Awesome.

of course, now I feel dirty, after a 16 inning victory, which I suspect was your goal all along. Sigh.
   26. Pokey Reese's Pieces Posted: September 05, 2013 at 03:43 AM (#4534865)
I haven't read the rule and am too tired to look it up right now. However, Molina clearly completed his throwing motion and then, upon completion of said motion, initiated the contact with the batter in a secondary motion that had nothing to do with the aforementioned throw. It was clearly an attempt to draw a bullshit call. Good judgement call by the umpire.

Once again, that said, nice game by the Cards. They just won't go away, ever.

Before you respond with anger toward me, please remember Dusty Baker is my favorite team's manager. Have mercy. :)
   27. God Posted: September 05, 2013 at 05:02 AM (#4534866)
Clearly you don't, since the rule doesn't say there has to be contact.


The rule doesn't say there has to be contact, and it also doesn't say there doesn't have to be contact. Since the rulebook is imprecise on the physical definition of interference, umpires have, over time, developed a consensus interpretation of the rule. And anybody who's watched baseball knows that batter's interference is never called unless actual contact is made. That is the de facto rule. The non-interference call on the Reds tonight was absolutely consistent with the way the rule has always been called in baseball. Any claim otherwise is mere pedantry.

   28. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 05, 2013 at 06:33 AM (#4534872)
You're arguing with god on Rosh Hashanna? Smiting is too good for you.
   29. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 05, 2013 at 06:50 AM (#4534873)
sun rising in the east, cards fans complaining after WINNING A GAME

yup, the world is at has always been.....................................
   30. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 05, 2013 at 08:18 AM (#4534881)
He's on pace for 24 steals, 24 runs, and no plate appearances!


I have a feeling this is his future. I just can't see him hitting enough to hold down a regular job.
   31. just plain joe Posted: September 05, 2013 at 08:21 AM (#4534883)
Was he the guy that Johnny Bench threw out stealing twice or was he the guy that Mike Marshall picked off in the World Series?

Anyway, was a track star pinch runner ever tried again??


Herb Washington was the guy picked off by Marshall so Lewis must have been the one caught stealing twice. Lewis could actually play in the field if necessary, his problem was that he couldn't hit major league pitching at all. Washington was a track star whose only skill was running fast; IIRC he had never played baseball before and all he did was pinch-run. He wasn't particularly good at stealing bases and was resented by some of his teammates for taking up a roster spot. The A's did win the series that year (1974) so I suppose it worked out. To the best of my knowledge no one has tried the "designated runner" strategy since then, at least not for an entire season.
   32. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 05, 2013 at 09:10 AM (#4534893)
Most SB, < 100 PAs

1. Larry Lintz 1976 OAK - 31 in 4 PAs
2. Herb Washington 1974 OAK - 29 in 0 PAs
3. Ced Landrum 1991 CHC - 27 in 99 PAs
4. Matt Alexander 1977 OAK - 26 in 47 PAs
5. Don Hopkins 1975 OAK - 21 in 8 PAs
6. Matt Alexander 1976 OAK - 20 in 30 PAs
7. Glen Barker 1999 HOU - 17 in 90 PAs
8. Matt Alexander 1975 OAK - 17 in 11 PAs
9. Allan Lewis 1967 KCA - 14 in 6 PAs
10.Juan Samuel 1998 TOR - 13 in 59 PAs

Matt Alexander played parts of 9 seasons with the Cubs, A's, and Pirates, and stole 103 bases in just 195 PAs.
   33. BDC Posted: September 05, 2013 at 09:31 AM (#4534900)
Meh, I'm waiting till the Rangers draft a shortstop called Pebbly Jack Glasscock.
   34. MikeinMI Posted: September 05, 2013 at 09:39 AM (#4534907)
Harvey has it right in #29. Nicely Done.
   35. RJ in TO Posted: September 05, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4534916)
10.Juan Samuel 1998 TOR - 13 in 59 PAs

This performance was just unbelievably strange to watch. He was 37 years old, had only stolen 25 bases (and 10 CS) over the previous four years, in 703 PA, and the Jays let him make 21 steal attempts anyway (he went 13/8). I really have no idea what they were thinking.
   36. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 05, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4534967)
Bad throw by Molina. He should've been out.


This can be said about A LOT of stolen bases, no? I mean, getting the throw in the exact right spot is a rather large part of the equation...
   37. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 07, 2013 at 11:18 AM (#4536401)
Just wanted to pull this back up to point out that Billy Hamilton now has 3 SB in 3 games, all as a pinch runner.
   38. Gonfalon B. Posted: September 07, 2013 at 12:40 PM (#4536421)
He's on pace to break Rickey Henderson's career record in July 2022. Early July.
   39. cardsfanboy Posted: September 07, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4536455)
The rule doesn't say there has to be contact, and it also doesn't say there doesn't have to be contact. Since the rulebook is imprecise on the physical definition of interference, umpires have, over time, developed a consensus interpretation of the rule. And anybody who's watched baseball knows that batter's interference is never called unless actual contact is made. That is the de facto rule. The non-interference call on the Reds tonight was absolutely consistent with the way the rule has always been called in baseball. Any claim otherwise is mere pedantry.


I wonder what baseball you guys watch. 90% of the time, that play is called interference. I've never seen anyone EVER argue that contact has to be made for it to qualify as interference. It was a textbook definition of interference, that is called nearly every single time it happens, and when it isn't called, is when people complain, because it's such a rare occurance that they don't call it correctly.

Mind you, who ultimately cares. We love Billy Hamilton, another reason to like the Reds. If they could fire everyone associated with their media, get more than a few dozen fans to the game, they would be a team to root for. I'm all in favor of the central having three post season teams.

   40. Gonfalon B. Posted: September 07, 2013 at 06:04 PM (#4536583)
Awwwww, yes yes yes, this shit is gettin' real now.
   41. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: September 07, 2013 at 08:30 PM (#4536654)
"My job was to score at all costs," Hamilton said. "Everybody knows that's what I'm here for."


I am enjoying Billy Hamilton.
   42. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 07, 2013 at 09:43 PM (#4536687)
His 162 game numbers are 121 runs scored, 162 SB, 0 PA.

It's really perfect that he's named Billy Hamilton.
   43. Steve Treder Posted: September 07, 2013 at 10:13 PM (#4536696)
It's really perfect that he's named Billy Hamilton.

I rather agree. :-)
   44. BochysFingers Posted: September 08, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4536766)
That's got to be a contender for least surprising headline of the year.

"I'll never vote for the Hall of Fame a player associated with steroids".
   45. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 08, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4536860)
If they could fire everyone associated with their media, get more than a few dozen fans to the game, they would be a team to root for.

Over 40K at last night's game. I think the labor day week is tough because kids are just starting school. Many games drew poorly this week.

Do you really base a rooting interest on local media? Outside of where I live and was raised, I root for teams when I like the players (Rangers seem like an affable bunch) or maybe the organization as a whole (i.e., the Moneyball era A's). I couldn't give a rat's ass what the local writers have to say.
   46. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 08, 2013 at 11:53 AM (#4536863)
Hamilton swiped another last night, making it four games in a row. Last guy to do that without coming to the plate at all was Mel Stocker for Milwaukee in 2007.

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