WOW just when I thought Jacobs would be reassigned to Brooklyn for the all important NY-PENN League stretch run.

so the jays think that mike jacobs is a better ML firstbaseman than brett wallace?

and astros fans are elated to have wallace replacing berkman???

But according to you, Astros fans would be elated to have Mike Wallace replacing Berkman because they just hate Berkman for some reason.

so the jays think that mike jacobs is a better ML firstbaseman than brett wallace?

I think it is safe to say that nobody thinks that.

so the jays think that mike jacobs is a better ML firstbaseman than brett wallace?

It's more likely that the Jays just need someone to play 1B at AAA for the rest of the year, and that this isn't a reflection on what they think of Wallace. He's also a possible gap-filler if the Jays more Overbay.

I'm guessing the PTBNL in this deal will be some 26 year old reliever stuck in low A. There's no way the Mets are getting back anything of real value for Jacobs.

Yep, these deck chairs look much better now.

Challenge trade.

Jacobs' best skill is his ability to hit homers and the Skydome seems to be a good park for that. He could be a cheap source of power but probably won't get much playing time as a Blue Jay.

Great trade. Who'd we get?

Oh, figures.

and astros fans are elated to have wallace replacing berkman???

Richard Justice is

I was actually briefly annoyed by this, as I had managed to confuse Jacobs with Jason Phillips, and was wondering why on earth the Jays had traded for a bullpen catcher.

Mike Jacobs seems like an ideal candidate to turn it around. He's surrounded by players in Toronto who do the exact same thing he does--high SLG, no OBP, tons of Ks.

Aw, c'mon. Now they're just ####### with us.

Did the Gose-Wallace deal get it's own thread? That was certainly a bigger move than this one. Any Jay fans want to comment on giving up Wallace? Why give up on him so early? Gose looks like a great player to have on a fantasy team, but precisely the type of guy who doesn't develop much at all. Wallace was hitting pretty well at AAA this year, so it doesn't look like his development has slowed. I thought the whole rationale of dealing Taylor was a lack of corner infielders/power types in the system. Just when I think they have a coherent plan...

The Jays need to cash in big at the deadline- plenty of guys having great/anomalous, Scutaro-type seasons. Dumping Gonzalez was a great move, now Buck, Bautista, and Overbay all need to be gone by tomorrow afternoon.

Any Jay fans want to comment on giving up Wallace? Why give up on him so early?

I'm guessing because he really hasn't progressed as a hitter. He's putting up an 0.866 OPS at AAA, which looks good until you realize it's in the PCL (league average OPS of 0.771) and in Las Vegas (team OPS of 0.838). Right now, he looks like he's not going to hit enough to play 1B in the majors, and the limited reviews I've seen on his defense don't seem very complimentary about it.

As for Goss, I'm willing to give the Jays the benefit of the doubt on him since:
a) They apparently were trying to get him back in the Halladay deal, and the Phillies preferred to give up Taylor, and
b) The Jays probably see Goss play more than just about any other prospect in the minors - the team on which he plays is right next to the Jays' minor league team, so their scouts are crawling all over that area.

I don't know. It may bomb, but both the Jays and the Phillies seemed to really like this Goss kid, which is probably a good sign for his future.

Dumping Gonzalez was a great move, now Buck, Bautista, and Overbay all need to be gone by tomorrow afternoon.

Buck and Overbay definitely need to be gone, for the best available offer. Bautista can be held through arb for next year, so his departure really has to depend on whether the offers are any better than what he's likely to produce for the remainder of this and next year.

Mets moved Nick Evans up to AAA to take Jacobs place.

Bautista can be held through arb for next year, so his departure really has to depend on whether the offers are any better than what he's likely to produce for the remainder of this and next year.

Thanks. WRT Bautista, it's a sell high thing. I don't see him having another year like this, and at the same time, he's still hitting right now so teams may be convinced he'll keep doing so through the next three months.

I don't know. It may bomb, but both the Jays and the Phillies seemed to really like this Goss kid, which is probably a good sign for his future.

From his numbers, he looks like Carlos Gomez minus the power to me. That's a lot of strikeouts to not generate a lot of BB or extra base hits. And last year looks like a fluke on the basepaths- 36/27 this year, which is pretty damn terrible. He's not really young for the league either. I wasn't impressed by the package they got for Doc either, though Taylor is making them look smart for dumping him right away. This organization has done a pretty bad job evaluating hitting talent, and there's no signs that's changing (other than the ridiculous power spikes from fringe players this year) under the new regime.

Thanks. WRT Bautista, it's a sell high thing. I don't see him having another year like this, and at the same time, he's still hitting right now so teams may be convinced he'll keep doing so through the next three months.

I don't see him repeating this year either, but if he even holds half his gains, then he's a 0.250/0.350/0.475 RF with a plus arm. That's still a highly useful player - either to hold or to trade. Given that his power surge has been going on since the beginning of last September, it seems likely that this isn't completely a fluke.

From his numbers, he looks like Carlos Gomez minus the power to me. That's a lot of strikeouts to not generate a lot of BB or extra base hits. And last year looks like a fluke on the basepaths- 36/27 this year, which is pretty damn terrible. He's not really young for the league either.

I will not argue with you about the awfulness of his base stealing performance this year. As to his hitting, he's currently beating the league averages in BA/OBP/SLG (although only barely in all of them), despite being 19 in a league where the average hitter is 22.7 (I know, the average prospect in that league isn't 22.7), and playing an apparently very good CF. With respect to the Carlos Gomez comparison, I really don't know if it's comparable, since the Jays aren't planning to bring Gose up to the majors this year (or next year, or the year after) so he's probably got a better chance to develop his skills against more appropriate competition.

I wasn't impressed by the package they got for Doc either, though Taylor is making them look smart for dumping him right away. This organization has done a pretty bad job evaluating hitting talent, and there's no signs that's changing (other than the ridiculous power spikes from fringe players this year) under the new regime.

For Doc, they got 2 (or 3, depending on the prospect list) top 100 talents, with most people having Drabek and Taylor in the top 25 (and Wallace, at the time, also generally being in the top 25). Given the circumstances, I think AA did a respectable job of extracting talent in return for Halladay, while at the same time realizing that it's doubtful that any of those players will even begin to reach Halladay's level.

As for developing hitting in the minors? Yeah, they've basically been awful, but that's at least been partially balanced out by their apparent ability to develop league average starting pitchers from miscellaneous debree.

crispix

unfortunately, you are right
theres too many astros fans who care about batting average. period. if it is under .280 they hate you. they also greatly prefer GIDPs/popups/groundouts to Ks. you have a hitter who hits .280, slugs .350 and strikes out 30 times and a hitter who hits .280, slugs .550 and strikes out 100 times they gonna prefer the first

Mets moved Nick Evans up to AAA to take Jacobs place.

I just want to mention that the Mets seemingly have an endless supply of guys like Evans right now in their system. By that, I mean 23-25 year old, 3b-1B-LF-RF types that are hitting well in AA-AAA.

Lucas Duda .298/.390/.579 between AA-AAA.
Evans .294/.366/.527
Zach Lutz .291/.417/.575
Sean Ratliff .333/.363/.601
Eric Campbell .315/.375/.519

That doesn't even include Ike Davis and Daniel Murphy. These guys aren't great prospects but it's going to be interesting to see what the Mets do with all of them.

Lance Berkman has already accumulated 46 WAR and probably has a few good years left. He's been peak David Ortiz for nearly ten years now. He has a .410 OBP in nearly 7000 PAs. That's not HOF-level, but it's extremely good, and sometimes it seems like nobody even thinks of him as being that valuable. It seems like Derrek Lee gets much more press and credit than Berkman despite having one season that would even rank in Berkman's top five, at least as far as WAR goes.

If he can go to New York and be anywhere near as good as he has been for the last ten years, he's gonna be a star. (Though I admit that he seems like the type that might not age well.)

edit: this post fits better with the discussion here but topically should be in the Berkman thread...sorry if it seems misplaced.

With respect to the Carlos Gomez comparison, I really don't know if it's comparable, since the Jays aren't planning to bring Gose up to the majors this year (or next year, or the year after) so he's probably got a better chance to develop his skills against more appropriate competition

I can understand the desire to get excited about him, but 19 isn't young for high A. This seems like a "he looks good in jeans" evaluation rather than one based on performance. FWIW, Carlos Gomez at age 19 in Hagerstown hit .275/.331/.376, with 64 against 24 steals. Gose is 19 at high A hitting .263/.325/.385. Gomez didn't really look like a prospect until he started hitting for power when he was (aggressively) promoted to Binghamton the next year.

Given the circumstances, I think AA did a respectable job of extracting talent in return for Halladay, while at the same time realizing that it's doubtful that any of those players will even begin to reach Halladay's level.

Between Drabek and Brown, I'd rather have Brown. The Jays prioritized getting pitching back for Doc, which seemed like a mistake given how nicely they've developed pitchers. I thought their #1 need was a player who could develop into a middle of the lineup type.

As for developing hitting in the minors? Yeah, they've basically been awful, but that's at least been partially balanced out by their apparent ability to develop league average starting pitchers from miscellaneous debree.

I don't follow them as closely as you do, but it seems they have a disproportionate number of hitters flame out, either in the high minors or upon reaching the majors, and a disproportionate number of pitchers come from nowhere to become serviceable starters or relievers. Not sure why this is, but it has been going on long enough that there might be an explanation for it, rather than just a random thing. Also, the Jay farm system is cursed to never produce another serviceable catcher. Remember when they had so many catchers they were actually moving guys off the position?