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Saturday, August 06, 2011

Bondy: Citi Field is certainly no Shea Stadium, longtime Mets killer Chipper Jones laments

Or as that brave humorist, Helen Rowland-Office, once wrote…“Home is any four walls that enclose the right ballplayer.”

David Wright’s scorching drive in the first inning Friday night struck halfway up that infernal left-field wall at Citi Field for a one-run double instead of a two-run homer, just as Chipper Jones knew it would.

“It’s funny to see them hit the ball off the wall and look at me like, ‘God-damned, what do I got to do?’” Jones said Friday, before that 16-foot wall and Tim Hudson doomed the Mets to a 4-1 defeat, their fifth in a row.

...Citi Field is both modestly scaled and impossibly dimensioned, an architectural paradox. “I’ve played here long enough to know that’s not a home run,” Wright said of his double. There was another blast in the seventh last night by Lucas Duda, a homer elsewhere, which died at the warning track in right.

Will the Mets ever do something about this? Not Jones’ problem, really. He dragged his sore quad and surgically repaired knee one more time into Flushing, and the new place was something of an unpleasant reminder about how the romance and aura of the venue had flown.

“Not the same atmosphere,” said Jones, who named his son after Shea.

Repoz Posted: August 06, 2011 at 12:59 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, history, mets, projections

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   1. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 06, 2011 at 01:26 PM (#3894168)
he romance and aura of the venue had flown.

Yeah there was an aura, albeit a lousy one, but romance?
   2. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 01:35 PM (#3894172)
Its hard to judge the citi atmosphere until they play a real meaningful game there, but shea's atmosphere was underrated. Fun place to watch a big game.
   3. Banta Posted: August 06, 2011 at 01:40 PM (#3894177)
Not that they've needed it thus far, but I never understood why they made the capacity like 10,000 seats less at Citi. Definitely would impact the atmosphere, I think.
   4. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 01:43 PM (#3894180)
Also, the 1999 NLCS is one of the greatest series in baseball history. Some guy once vconcocted singe crazy metric to rank the most exciting playoff series ever. When he ran the numbers the 1999 nlcs won, which caused him to disavow the metric because such a result was obviously wrong, since tge series didn't even go 7 and started 3~0. when I saw the results I knew tge formula was actually dead on.
   5. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 06, 2011 at 01:45 PM (#3894181)
Yeah there was an aura, albeit a lousy one, but romance?

Kiss-cam?
   6. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 02:27 PM (#3894194)
I just had a great idea: a book about the 1999 lcs: Mets vs. Braves and Yankees vs. Red Sox
   7. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: August 06, 2011 at 03:01 PM (#3894215)
I was thinking of this a lot last night watching the game. It's not because of Citi necessarily, but just the state of the Mets. But with this being a pretty sad weekend for matchups between teams that both have something at stake, Braves-Mets made the cut for me for the first time in a while. Those were good times when they were going at it. I do miss it.
   8. MikeTorrez Posted: August 06, 2011 at 03:20 PM (#3894227)
Both NYS and Citi atmospheres pale in comparison to their predecessors. For NYS, the stadium doesn't hold the sound in like the old one did so it's not nearly as loud as it used to be. Part of this is due to the stadium's design, but a lot of it has got to be because the seats closest to home plate are hardly ever filled, and if they are, they're filled with fans who probably aren't that passionate or boisterous.

Haven't been to Citi, but from what I've seen it just looks blah.
   9. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 06, 2011 at 03:22 PM (#3894228)
For NYS, the stadium doesn't hold the sound in like the old one did ...

I'm sure we could throw on a retractable dome for another billion or so.
   10. TerpNats Posted: August 06, 2011 at 03:22 PM (#3894229)
Some guy once concocted singe crazy metric to rank the most exciting playoff series ever. When he ran the numbers the 1999 nlcs won, which caused him to disavow the metric because such a result was obviously wrong, since the series didn't even go 7 and started 3~0. when I saw the results I knew the formula was actually dead on.
Better than the 1980 NLCS between the Phillies and Astros? Heck, the '99 NLCS isn't even the best LCS in Mets history. Remember '86 vs. Houston?
   11. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 03:43 PM (#3894236)
Obviously it's a subjective thing...I didn't watch either of those series, but the 99 lcs is tops for me the non Yankees/Red Sox division.
   12. Brian White Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:02 PM (#3894240)
Only one game in the '99 NLCS wasn't decided by one run - the Braves won game 1 by two runs.

Has any series ever had every game been a one run game? I suspect there might be a three game division series sweep which fit the bill, or something like that, but in most six or seven game series there's at least one relatively easy win.
   13. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#3894246)
What's remarkable about 1999 is that the Mets/Braves rivalry was more white hot than Yankees/Red Sox. When Olerud got the big hit off Rocker in Game 4 it was like when Rocky bloodied Ivan Drago. Even with Clemens/Pedro and Knoblauchgate, the NLCS was the bigger media story
   14. RMc's desperate, often sordid world Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:43 PM (#3894258)
Jones, who named his son after Shea.

As I've said before, Chipper should've named his son Enron...
   15. Swedish Chef Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:50 PM (#3894262)
As I've said before, Chipper should've named his son Enron...

Good thing it wouldn't be Minute Maid.
   16. Conor Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:54 PM (#3894263)
I might be somewhat biased because A) I'm a Met fan and B) I was 15 years old in October of 99, but that was really an incredible series. It didn't go 7 games (though in a sense it kinda did, since the last 2 games were 26 innings), but Games 4-6 were probably as dramatic as you can possibly get. Olerud with a 2 run single off Rocker (The Mets basically couldn't touch Rocker to this point) in the bottom of the 8th to get the Mets a 3-2 win, after giving up 2 in the top half of the inning to blow a 1-0 lead. Game 5 was just insane, 15 innings, grand slam single (and what is probably forgotten by many is the Mets entered the bottom of the 15th down a run), and Game 6, the Mets spotted the Braves 5 runs before getting an out, only to rally for a tie with a 3 run homer by Piazza, and then blowing 2 leads in the 8th and the 10th before finally losing in the bottom of the 11th.

What an incredible series. Just not the result I was looking for.
   17. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 04:55 PM (#3894265)
Oh, and not to speak for Mets fans, but Chipper does deserve a standing ovation when he plays his last game in Flushing.
   18. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 06, 2011 at 05:19 PM (#3894272)
1980 NLCS:
Game One-- 7th inning comeback, tying run at the plate in the 9th. (The boring game.)
Game Two-- 7th inning comeback, 8th inning counter-comeback, 10th inning go-ahead, Mike Schmidt up as the tying run in the bottom of the 10th.
Game Three-- Game's first run scores in the bottom of the 11th.
Game Four-- 8th inning comeback, bottom of the 9th counter-comeback, 10th inning win.
Game Five-- 6th inning comeback, 8th inning counter-comeback, bottom of the 8th counter-counter-comeback, 10th inning win.

The lead in the series was 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. This abbreviated account does not include specific in-game details, such as Nolan Ryan scoring the tying run and getting out of a bases-loaded jam in the same inning, or Joe Morgan hitting a triple to lead off the 11th inning with the score 0-0, or Joe Niekro pitching a 10-inning no-decision, or the two teams getting 14 baserunners in Game Five from the 8th inning on.

The silver medal remains open to debate.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: August 06, 2011 at 05:44 PM (#3894288)
You're all wrong, because Yahoo Answers says it was the 2001 ALDS. Jeter flip play. Nuff said.
   20. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 06, 2011 at 06:32 PM (#3894315)
1995 alds yankees mariners is better for a best of five
   21. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 06, 2011 at 06:39 PM (#3894322)
1995 alds yankees mariners is better for a best of five


Better than what? It sure wasn't better than 1980 NLCS.
   22. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:10 PM (#3894336)
Agreed that 1980 NLCS is the obvious number 1. It is a shame that it took place between teams from insignificant backwaters so that it is completely ignored by history.
   23. PreservedFish Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:23 PM (#3894345)
Best game ever? 1986 NLCS Game 6?

It has three "score or die" innings, which is kind of impressive.
   24. PreservedFish Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:30 PM (#3894348)
The Rick Camp game has 4 "score or die" innings.
   25. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:31 PM (#3894349)
The 1999 LCS was incredible, but my memories of it are somewhat spoiled by the media coverage it received and the reputation it's been given. For one, the Braves won that series, and with all the coverage of Ventura's grand slam single and the Mets' comeback in Game Six, that little fact sort of gets lost. Also, it's annoying to hear about those scrappy, underdog Mets, as if a team based in the media and cultural capital of the world, playing Rickey Henderson, John Olerud, Mike Piazza and Robin Ventura every day, has any real claim to underdog status. And I think that really does a disservice to the '99 Braves, a team that lost Galarraga and Ligtenberg in the pre-season, Javy Lopez and a handful of other contributors during the season, won more than 100 games and, in Game Six of the LCS, launched two comebacks of their own. It's unfortunate that they get reduced to the Mets' boogeyman.
   26. TerpNats Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3894352)
1980 NLCS:
Game One-- 7th inning comeback, tying run at the plate in the 9th. (The boring game.)
Game Two-- 7th inning comeback, 8th inning counter-comeback, 10th inning go-ahead, Mike Schmidt up as the tying run in the bottom of the 10th.
Game Three-- Game's first run scores in the bottom of the 11th.
Game Four-- 8th inning comeback, bottom of the 9th counter-comeback, 10th inning win.
Game Five-- 6th inning comeback, 8th inning counter-comeback, bottom of the 8th counter-counter-comeback, 10th inning win.

The lead in the series was 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2. This abbreviated account does not include specific in-game details, such as Nolan Ryan scoring the tying run and getting out of a bases-loaded jam in the same inning, or Joe Morgan hitting a triple to lead off the 11th inning with the score 0-0, or Joe Niekro pitching a 10-inning no-decision, or the two teams getting 14 baserunners in Game Five from the 8th inning on.
And that doesn't even include the triple play that wasn't. Had this all taken place at Fenway Park instead of the Astrodome and the Vet, Ken Burns and Doris Kearns Goodwin would be all over it.
   27. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:36 PM (#3894356)
The Rick Camp game has 4 "score or die" innings.

So you're saying the loser of that game was eliminated from contention on July 5?
   28. PreservedFish Posted: August 06, 2011 at 07:37 PM (#3894357)
Yes, I realized that "score or lose" was a better way to put it.
   29. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: August 06, 2011 at 08:46 PM (#3894381)
It's unfortunate that they get reduced to the Mets' boogeyman.
They would probably have a better rep if they didn't get swept in the World Series by a collective 21-9 score.
   30. Something Other Posted: August 06, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3894486)
Both NYS and Citi atmospheres pale in comparison to their predecessors. For NYS, the stadium doesn't hold the sound in like the old one did so it's not nearly as loud as it used to be. Part of this is due to the stadium's design, but a lot of it has got to be because the seats closest to home plate are hardly ever filled, and if they are, they're filled with fans who probably aren't that passionate or boisterous.
It's really because if you're willing to spend twenty five hundred bucks on a ticket you must be so close to death any sudden movement is likely to end things.

Chipper didn't really name his son after the stadium, did he? I know he's a Brave, so he might do any godawful thing, but that would surprise me.
   31. Perry Posted: August 07, 2011 at 03:19 AM (#3894524)
Has any series ever had every game been a one run game?


Closest I know offhand is the 1972 WS between Oakland and Cincy. 6 of the 7 games were one-run. Naturally the Reds, loser of the series, won the blowout. Pete Rose, representing the winning run in game 7, flied to Joe Rudi on the warning track to end the Series.
   32. Dan Evensen Posted: August 07, 2011 at 03:50 AM (#3894541)
Obviously it's a subjective thing...I didn't watch either of those series, but the 99 lcs is tops for me the non Yankees/Red Sox division.

I would very strongly recommend getting a bootleg copy of the 1986 NLCS on DVD. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

If you are ever able to get a copy of the complete 1980 NLCS on DVD (or cassette), you'll be blown away. No LCS even comes close. #18 ignores the controversial plays in Games 3, 4 and 5 -- particularly in Game 4, where a triple play call was botched by the umpires after a 10 minute argument (coke to #26).

1999 was a great NLCS, though. I'll never forget watching Game 5, and Game 6 surely ranks up there with the all time classic postseason games. However, a bit of research and vintage game watching will show you just how great 1980 really was. And all of that came after two exciting NL division races, including a one game Dodgers - Astros playoff.

Basically, this really isn't a subjective decision. If you watch the 1980 NLCS, and then watch any LCS in its entirety (including the 2003 or 2004 ALCS), you'll choose 1980.
   33. McCoy Posted: August 07, 2011 at 01:17 PM (#3894596)
1915 WS:
Red Sox vs Phillies.
First game was 3-1 and then three 2-1 games and a 5-4 game at the end. Game 2, 3, and 5 were won in the 9th inning with game one having the go ahead run happen in the 8th.
   34. zack Posted: August 08, 2011 at 02:53 PM (#3895347)
The 1999 NCLS, which is the series that made me a baseball fan, loses about 10,000,000 points for ending with a Kenny ####### ROGERS WALKING HOME THE ####### WINNING RUN.
   35. flournoy Posted: August 08, 2011 at 03:29 PM (#3895373)
The 1999 NCLS, which is the series that made me a baseball fan, loses about 10,000,000 points for ending with a Kenny ####### ROGERS WALKING HOME THE ####### WINNING RUN.


That was what made the series so hilarious and awesome.
   36. Lassus Posted: August 08, 2011 at 03:34 PM (#3895379)
I will never, ever, ever forget that game. I still have nightmares about it.
   37. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 08, 2011 at 04:18 PM (#3895408)
Also, the 1999 NLCS is one of the greatest series in baseball history. Some guy once vconcocted singe crazy metric to rank the most exciting playoff series ever. When he ran the numbers the 1999 nlcs won, which caused him to disavow the metric because such a result was obviously wrong, since tge series didn't even go 7 and started 3~0. when I saw the results I knew tge formula was actually dead on.


Yeah, that was a great series - even though my team lost and it only went 6 games and ended on a walk-off walk, it was still extremely memorable and one of the greatest series I've ever seen. The grand single, the seeming invincibility of Benitez and Rocker, etc.

The 1999 NCLS, which is the series that made me a baseball fan, loses about 10,000,000 points for ending with a Kenny ####### ROGERS WALKING HOME THE ####### WINNING RUN.

Anytime anyone ever intentionally walks the bases loaded, I think of that game. What a stupid idea with Kenny Rogers on the mound.
   38. J. Sosa Posted: August 08, 2011 at 04:19 PM (#3895409)
I loved the Mets/Braves matchups from that era. Of my two closest friends at the time, one was a Mets fan and one was a Braves fan. The Braves fan would sometimes play Crazy Train at random moments and the Mets fan would without fail go into a foamed at the mouth cursing fit, and it wasn't an act. It never got old.

On a side note, the Mets fan base is probably my favorite. In retrospect, Crazy Train induced seizures are a large part of that. I watched the Kenny Rogers game with the two.

One of the better sports related memories of my life. *

* edit to add that the Crazy Train anecdote might sound odd to fans of teams other than the Braves and Mets. I'll leave it to a Mets fan to explain if no one caught the reference. I'm sure at least some Mets fans here have had a similar reaction to Crazy Train. It is a malady common to Mets fans of that era.

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