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Saturday, August 18, 2012

Boston Herald:Tomase: Red Sox Still Can’t Match Misery of ‘01

Since it’s an election year, perhaps it’s time for the Misery Index:

It could be worse, Red Sox fans. At least Bobby Valentine’s players haven’t tried to kill him. Joe Kerrigan was not so fortunate in 2001, the last time the Red Sox had a season even remotely resembling this one. Just ask David Cone. He was there the September day that mercurial outfielder Carl Everett tried to attack Kerrigan during batting practice, an incident that helped push Cone into retirement.
. . . .
As bad as 2012 feels, with daily dramas materializing over matters big and small, it’s entirely possible that 2001 was even worse. Players tuned out Jimy Williams until he was fired in August. Ugueth Urbina and Trot Nixon brawled on a flight from Tampa, prompting then-bench coach Gene Lamont to remark, “(Expletive) it. Let them kill each other.” Everett disrespected Williams in a team meeting, tore his jersey off in anger during a post-Sept. 11 workout, and then nearly assaulted Kerrigan. The Sox couldn’t even agree on a teamwide donation following the terrorist attacks.[/block quote]

The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 18, 2012 at 02:28 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: crazy clown town, history, red sox

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1. TerpNats Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:15 AM (#4211238)

So the message here is that for the Bosox to come back, they need new ownership for 2013?

2. Swedish Chef Posted: August 18, 2012 at 09:31 AM (#4211243)

Ugueth Urbina and Trot Nixon brawled on a flight from Tampa, prompting then-bench coach Gene Lamont to remark, “(Expletive) it. Let them kill each other.”

Bet Ugueth was disappointed when it turned out it wasn't a serious proposal.

3. TVerik Posted: August 18, 2012 at 10:06 AM (#4211256)

a) When the Yankees took the lead, it really looked to me like the Sox gave up. It usually looks like that when a good team steps on a not-good team, but I thought there was no particular chance that the Sox would make it even interesting once the Yankees got run #5.

b) If the Sox were in a true pennant race, would Ortiz be either out there or closer to returning?

4. TomH Posted: August 18, 2012 at 10:10 AM (#4211258)

so they didn't "give up" when down 4-0, but they "gave up" down 5-4??

5. TVerik Posted: August 18, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4211262)

Tom, I can't really explain it. I've seen over the years that the out-of-the-race Royals in August, for instance, played really well for the first three or five or six innings, but if you could get a late lead on them, they didn't come back. I have little doubt that the Sox clubs of the mid-Aughts would have scratched another run or so and made Soriano's job, for instance, far more difficult.

6. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 18, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4211263)

“(Dan) Duquette and Kerrigan wanted me to come back,” said Cone, who was 38 at the time. “I thought about it and said, ‘Nah.’ It was so bad the last few weeks there, I was better off shutting it down. I met Grady the next year and thought, ‘Maybe I should’ve played.’?”

& the next year w/ the Mets shows that you were right the first time.

7. Dale Sams Posted: August 18, 2012 at 10:35 AM (#4211266)

The 2001 team had a winning record. This one is going to go 72-90.

8. Nasty Nate Posted: August 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4211279)

2001 had the added misery of the Yankees being triple-defending champions.

Only about 7 of the Sox guys from that team were celebrating in St. Louis a mere 3 years later.

9. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4211283)

so they didn't "give up" when down 4-0, but they "gave up" down 5-4??

I don't know if they ever gave up, but they were never down 4-0.

10. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: August 18, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4211344)

The sox were a whisper from tying last nights game on Pedroias drive in the eighth. The Sox do this regularly, one good inning surrounded by several innings of crsp. Hell the 17 inning game was the same thing, five in the fourth I think it was then one run in the other 16 innings.

Maybe they are giving up but they look the same to mean terms of effort, they just aren't very good.

11. TVerik Posted: August 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4211349)

Lemme push back on that a bit. They've scored the third-most runs in the league; five runs from the best. I think the pitching is a big problem, and that's why they are where they are in the standings. But this offense; with a more-effective-than-ever as a Sock Crawford, Pedroia on an excellent streak, Gonzalez on a good streak, along with Ellsbury, Ciriaco, Aviles, Salty, and Ross, should have scored more than 4 runs off of Hughes yesterday.

12. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: August 18, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4211354)

Erik, I agree with you on what they should have done but it's been a season long issue for this team. They are seventh in OPS+ and the runs are a bit of a park effect with this team. Also, and I'm open to accepting firm data contradicting this, they have been streaky. When they get rolling they pile up the runs but they come back the next day and get shut down.

Also, look t the names you listed. Crawford, Pedroia and Gonzalez yes but Aviles is mediocre, Salty has been slumping for six weeks and Ciriaco is replacement level t the plate.

13. TVerik Posted: August 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4211356)

Also, because I like when strange numbers do strange things, the Sox are 4 under .500 against the Yankees this year, and 4 under .500 overall too.

14. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: August 18, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4211357)

The 2001 team had a winning record. This one is going to go 72-90.

If the 2001 team had Kerrigan mange them all year they would have been in the same boat.

15. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: August 18, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4211367)

Just to throw some numbers at this Erik;

Games over ten runs - Sox are second in AL
three runs or less - Sox are eighth in AL

not close to definitive of course but I think supports my point and helps to explain why they are underperforming our friend Pythagoras.

16. karlmagnus Posted: August 18, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4211506)

The 2001 team was much worse hit by injuries; if they had had everybody fit all year and had replaced Jimy Williams and Kerrigan before the season they should have won. Nomar, Pedro and Manny, all based on 2000 form at their best. Drool.

This lot are nothing like as good; the supporting cast may well be better but there aren't three HOFers at the top (claiming Nomar as a HOFer if he hadn't burnt out -- a lot do that, but on peak value he was better than either Jeter or A-Rod.)

17. Ray (RDP)

Posted: August 19, 2012 at 07:53 PM (#4212135)

Former Boston Red Sox catcher Kelly Shoppach, not first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, was behind the text message sent to team ownership in late-July that complained about manager Bobby Valentine, the New York Daily News has reported.

Citing major league sources, the newspaper says Shoppach was "deeply involved" in writing the message, which was sent on Gonzalez's cell phone.

Is it unfair to speculate that the Red Sox traded two players - one a very good one (Youkilis) and one a useful one (Shoppach), actively making themselves worse, as a response to off the field issues?

I happen to think that is on Cherington, not Valentine. Valentine, whatever his influence on the GM, doesn't have the authority to pull the trigger on trades. Not that losing the clubhouse is a great achievement, but trading away good players is not on him.

18. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 19, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4212138)

Trading Shoppach made all kinds of baseball sense. The Sox had a good RHB catcher in the minors to take over for Shoppach. They aren't contending this year, and the Sox should give Lavarnway as much of a test run as they can. Further, Shoppach's not signed for next season, so moving him for whatever return might be possible makes sense. (I was annoyed the Sox waited until after the deadline, after he'd be waived and claimed, to make the trade.)

The Youkilis trade, that's a clownshow all over the place, of course. But I don't think the Shoppach trade is of the same kind. It was a perfectly normal baseball trade, regardless of other issues.

19. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 19, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4212141)

Shoppach denies any involvement in the text, and blaming the recently-traded player seems rather convenient.

20. SoSH U at work Posted: August 19, 2012 at 08:06 PM (#4212144)

Shoppach denies any involvement in the text, and blaming the recently-traded player seems rather convenient.

Yes, if the Sox can just convince the world that all of the trouble in the clubhouse was caused by lone malcontent Kelly Shoppach, it's sure to be smooth sailing from here on out.

21. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 19, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4212147)

If the implication is that this is Red Sox front office spin, why did they leak it to the Daily News?

The simplest explanation seems to be the expected incompetence of the Daily News. I've read the story, it doesn't even make grammatical sense.

22. Ray (RDP)

Posted: August 19, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4212152)

The Youkilis trade, that's a clownshow all over the place, of course. But I don't think the Shoppach trade is of the same kind. It was a perfectly normal baseball trade, regardless of other issues.

Fair enough.

23. The District Attorney Posted: August 19, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4212153)

Clearly the Boston Herald is acting here as a media mouthpiece for the Red Sox front office. Take this as a sign that the Red Sox are trying to unload Carl Everett, and are looking to tear down public opinion of Everett so they'll look good when they dump him.

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Saturday, August 18, 2012

Boston Herald:Tomase: Red Sox Still Can’t Match Misery of ‘01

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