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Saturday, November 10, 2012

Boston Red Sox, catcher David Ross agree to two-year deal - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN

Is Lavarnway headed out of town to fill their need for a shortstop?

Ross will be “more than a backup but not a starter” for the Red Sox, according to one source. The Sox could move one of their current catchers, Jarrod Saltalamacchia or Ryan Lavarnway. The team’s plans are unclear.

Jim Furtado Posted: November 10, 2012 at 12:19 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, red sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: November 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4299532)
The deal reportedly is for $6.2 million over two years. That is probably about what Salty would make in 2013. If this paves the way for Salty's departure for some useful parts of a 2013 roster, then I like this trade.

Farrell apparently loves working with Ross. Ross apparently is loved by his teammates in Atlanta for being a great clubhouse guy, a joker, a mentor, etc.

It strikes me that the move here is to have Ross start half the games, have Lavarnway start half the games at catcher, have Lavarnway spell Ortiz at DH, and play some games at 1B, too.

According to Baseball Analytics (http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2012/11/10/pull-happy-ross-heads-to-fenway.html), Ross is an extreme pull hitter, and the short LF wall could translate into a lot of cheap doubles and HRs.

I think I like the move - but this is clearly a small part of a bigger idea.
   2. Koot Posted: November 10, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4299538)
I'm hoping this will lead to possibly playing Salty at first a few days a week and give Farrell more roster flexibility (and maybe help keep Salty fresh later in the season). Maybe we'll have the clever manager I was hoping we were getting with Valentine.
   3. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 10, 2012 at 12:56 PM (#4299541)
Salty's not nearly a good enough hitter to deserve playing time at 1B.

The Sox can trade either Salty or Lavarnway. This doesn't lock them into either move, but they're pretty much certain to trade one of them.
   4. Koot Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4299546)
Salty's not nearly a good enough hitter to deserve playing time at 1B.


On most teams, probably. On this team, I don't see a solution that is all that much better. If there's a first baseman out there worthy of playing full time, I wouldn't want to have Salty taking playing time away from him.
   5. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4299549)
I am with MCoA: Salty is not a very good hitter. He hits HRs, but he has trouble making contact, and he's going to start making money soon. There are probably teams who would give something for him...a useful relief pitcher, or a decent pitching prospect, whatever...
   6. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4299550)
On most teams, probably. On this team, I don't see a solution that is all that much better. If there's a first baseman out there worthy of playing full time, I wouldn't want to have Salty taking playing time away from him.


I think the Sox will sign someone better than Salty as a first baseman between now and April. I think a trade is in the works and my guess is its Lavarnway not Salty who goes.
   7. Sweatpants Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4299551)
Ugh, terrible news, especially with McCann going to be missing time at the beginning of the year.
   8. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4299552)
I think the Sox will sign someone better than Salty as a first baseman between now and April.
Right. If the Sox have a 2013 roster in which Salty would deserve playing time at first, that's a failure of roster construction.
   9. Nasty Nate Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4299557)
The Sox already had this guy briefly a few years ago.
   10. DA Baracus Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4299562)
I'm shocked Ross didn't return.

EDIT: a little less shocked...

The deal reportedly is for $6.2 million over two years.

   11. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: November 10, 2012 at 01:52 PM (#4299566)
I'm starting to get a bit nervous regarding the Red Sox payroll. It's the pessimist in me, but I have the feeling Henry has put out an order to get Boston's payroll somewhere near league average.
   12. Mike A Posted: November 10, 2012 at 02:34 PM (#4299588)
Disappointed, but it's part of being a mid-market team. Makes it more difficult to spend money on players like Ross.

Ross is pretty much the ultimate back-up catcher. Despite his age, I think it's a really good sign for Boston on the field and in the clubhouse. The Braves will miss him, especially with McCann still on the mend.
   13. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: November 10, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4299590)
Ross hit 269/353/463 over the last 4 years with Atlanta (660 PAs). He has a career 100 OPS+ (2000 PAs).

His numbers remind me a bit of Mike Redmond's--he has clearly been good enough to start for the majority of teams, but for whatever reason (bad luck?), he's been stuck in the backup role his whole career.
   14. Danny Posted: November 10, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4299608)
Ross has had an interesting resurgence with Atlanta that's been entirely driven by BABIP.

Age 25-31: 1307 PA, .222/.309/.435, 26 K%, 10 BB%, .213 ISO, 90 OPS+, .257 BABIP
Age 32-35 : 663 PA, .269/.353/.463, 27 K%, 11 BB%, .194 ISO, 119 OPS+, .347 BABIP
   15. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 10, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4299610)
He could probably have gotten a starting gig somewhere if he wanted to.
   16. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 10, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4299629)
I'm starting to get a bit nervous regarding the Red Sox payroll. It's the pessimist in me, but I have the feeling Henry has put out an order to get Boston's payroll somewhere near league average.


I don't know quite where league average is but given the amount of payroll they unloaded in August I won't be surprised if they are down dramatically from where they were.
   17. Brian White Posted: November 10, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4299637)
Man, this sucks. I'd be happy if the Braves dropped that kind of money on Ross. He's totally worth it.
   18. Darren Posted: November 10, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4299656)
This is one of the 45 pretty decent catchers the Red Sox have had and lost over the past several years. $3 mil for a guy who will probably give you one win will be worth it, and so will not having to watch Salty.

So yes, I think it's Salty who's going. The Red Sox pitchers don't seem to do well pitching to him and he looks as terrible behind the plate as his numbers say. If he can be dealt for some value, while cutting costs to use elsewhere, this is a good move.
   19. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 10, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4299671)
I've been trying to find info on this and coming up empty so if anyone has some insight I'd appreciate it. Is it a fair statement that players get a greater platoon disadvantage as they age? Anecdotally that seems to be the case and given that he's 35 I would expect Ross as he starts to age to become a lesser hitter against RHP while remaining effective against LHP.
   20. flournoy Posted: November 10, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4299689)
Booooooooo. Terrible news. So who do the Braves pick up to replace him?
   21. Walt Davis Posted: November 10, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4299693)
I don't know quite where league average is

Average is about $100 M; median about 80-85. Presumably both going up with the new TV money.

As to Ross et al, offensively the obvious pairing is Salty and Ross as Salty has hit much better as a LHB in his career and Ross is something of a lefty masher. That's probably also the best combo for short-term success. In terms of money or longer-term success, you got with Ross-Lavarnway of course. Also I don't know that you'll really get much in trade for Lavarnway.

I would project Salty to the Cubs but we've got Castillo, nothing much to trade and sure aren't gonna give up any young talent. The Dodgers might have enough sense not to believe in AJ Ellis and make a logical spot. Maybe the Rangers would like him back or the White Sox if they are done with AJ.
   22. Dan Posted: November 10, 2012 at 05:48 PM (#4299718)
Ross is something of a lefty masher


Ross career splits:

Vs RHP: .234/.323/.448
Vs LHP: .244/.325/.438

You'd be hard pressed to find a righty with a lesser platoon split.
   23. AJMcCringleberry Posted: November 10, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4299773)
Probably thinking of Cody Ross...

vs RHP .253/.312/.415
vs LHP .284/.353/.575
   24. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: November 10, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4299783)
I bet it was David. That's what I thought he was. Start against some LHP in relief of McCann and put some good wood on the ball, for a catcher. Even when I saw 22, I thought oh well I bet if we look at the last four years or something he has been a lefty masher of sorts. But except for 2010, nope. Which surprises me quite a bit.
   25. Walt Davis Posted: November 10, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4299788)
I should have checked instead of going by memory.
   26. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: November 10, 2012 at 08:57 PM (#4299814)
Booooooooo. Terrible news. So who do the Braves pick up to replace him?


You're not excited about the JC Boscan era?
   27. Darnell McDonald had a farm Posted: November 10, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4299836)
When a team gives two years and 6M to a backup catcher the only reasonable reaction is "That team has no idea what it is doing"
   28. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 10, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4299879)
JC Boscan opted for minor league free agency (he could return, of course.) Brian McCann is out for at least the first month rehabbing labrum surgery. Unless they get someone via trade or free agency, you're really talking about the Evan Gattis or Christian Bethancourt era.
   29. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: November 11, 2012 at 12:25 AM (#4299904)
When a team gives two years and 6M to a backup catcher the only reasonable reaction is "That team has no idea what it is doing"


I don't agree with this. It depends what other moves they have in mind, and are able to execute. If this signing allows them to:

1) trade Salty as part of a deal for something they need, like a first baseman, and OF, etc.;
2) Give Lavarnway legit playing time next year;
3) A well-regarded mentor who can help maximize Lavarnway's future performance, while
4) giving them a catcher who will start 90 games for them this year who is (in a different way) at least as good a hitter as Salty...


well, then, this is a good signing. I think it will end up being a good signing.
   30. Brian White Posted: November 11, 2012 at 02:29 AM (#4299937)
When a team gives two years and 6M to a backup catcher the only reasonable reaction is "That team has no idea what it is doing"


If we were talking about any current backup catcher who isn't David Ross, I'd agree with you. But we're not talking about someone who isn't David Ross. This is a good signing.
   31. Lassus Posted: November 11, 2012 at 08:53 AM (#4299956)
I am with MCoA: Salty is not a very good hitter.

I wonder if he has the worst runs or hits per letter ever.
   32. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: November 11, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4299995)
If we were talking about any current backup catcher who isn't David Ross, I'd agree with you. But we're not talking about someone who isn't David Ross. This is a good signing.


David Ross is awesome. I join most Braves fans in loving David Ross and mourning his departure as a fan.

David Ross is also a 35 year old backup catcher.
   33. calhounite Posted: November 11, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4300281)
Nice to see one of the small fry finally learning its place.

Other players might be interested in...

Mcgahee...no name but can put in the program been in majors most of the last 3 years.

Kotsay...been making the rounds lately as a guy who can reliably put the cap on the mlb roster smell test...actually tho hasn't been a mlb player for years.

tons others.. Wiggington, Matsui, etc.

no guarantees but 3 mil per should do it.



   34. Walt Davis Posted: November 11, 2012 at 09:17 PM (#4300284)
I wonder if he has the worst runs or hits per letter ever.

First and last names or just last?

These would seem to be your "leaders" for RC/surname_letters (min 400 PA):

Bogusevic 34/9
Pennington 39/10
Lombardozzi 45/11
Salty 54/14

Looks like Bogusevic wins by a nose although he had the least PAs of the bunch. Pennington actually had the most PA so you could still argue form him over Salty. Anyway, very very close and we might have to bring in park effects or pancake flops or something to sort it out.

If we take both names, Clifton Pennington is 39/17 and Jarrod S is 54/20 and Pennington wins in a cakewalk at 2.3 RC/letter.
   35. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 11, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4300304)
There are probably teams who would give something for him...a useful relief pitcher, or a decent pitching prospect, whatever...


I'm pretty sure the Pirates would happily give you a reliever for him. Anyone in particular you had in mind?

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