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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Thursday, July 31, 2008
Rehabbing Red Sox righthander Curt Schilling this morning said he thought the Manny Ramirez situation has affected the team and keeping him in Boston for the stretch run could present a problem.
“..I’ve always wondered how we came to be OK with ‘… he’s just not gonna play hard today,’ and that was OK. We’ve come a long way, especially in this city as devoted and as much as the Red Sox mean to people, the fact that you could have a Dustin Pedroia, a Jason Varitek, someone who would bleed and literally play his nine breaths to make an out or get a hit or win a game, and have somebody at the other end of the spectrum from a committed standpoint, you know these players love the uniform, love the fans, and believe in Red Sox and what it means to be a part of this and then you have guys who really don’t give a [expletive].”
“I enjoyed pitching with Pedro, but I watched Pedro for a year come and go as he pleased, and do whatever he pleased, from a schedule standpoint and to a point, All-Star break heading home and no one ever said a word… The things that Pedro said going out of town about Terry [Francona], that crushed me because of what I saw Tito do for him. Manny’s the same way…”
Guapo
Posted: July 31, 2008 at 04:25 PM | 100 comment(s)
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1. JoeHova Posted: July 31, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#2884090)what does this mean?
He's actually a cat.
that's not fair - everyone knows that Pedro and Manny both subscribe to Mother Jones and regularly donate to MoveOn.org
-I thought it was established that Schilling was the anonymous source ripping Scott Williamson for not manning up and pitching with a busted forearm.
I agree with the first point. He could ask Millar about the potential embarrassment.
As to your second point, I don't think Schilling anonymously ripped Williamson. I think his name was attached (which is one reason why I always doubted he was the anonymous guy ripping Manny. Schilling don't do anonymous).
Hey, I agree with you that it's stupid of him. I'm just pleased to see a player put his name to a controversial quote, rather than do the Mark Grace routine.
Not me, but then who gives a #### about what anyone on this board thinks? Who gives a #### what any blogger thinks? Yet we'll certainly share our comments anyway...
Schilling. That's why he's telling us exactly what he thinks.
I guarantee that no potential trading partner's perception of the sox' desperation is affected at all by anything coming out of Curt Schilling's mouth.
That's not the only these he's planted in his mouth. Yeah...just take a few seconds and picture that.
Boy, he really knows how to act for the media and fans, doesn't he?
also: how much truth is there to his comments? i don't follow the sox closely, but i have read some stuff about manny and pedro; manny being manny, etc., and pedro looking a little like he needed to do some offseason conditioning instead of whatever he does. any consensus in red sox nation?
I was hoping the Manny deal would get done if only because I'm sitting on a lot of FAAB dollars in my NL only roto league, but for this stretch run entertainment, now I'm leaning towards Manny staying put.
I think he was barely on speaking terms with Randy Johnson.
that's as may be, but he is still talking about someone who is, as of this moment, his teammate. And whatever we think individually about Schilling, or Manny, or the Red Sox, or whatever, I think most of us will agree that ripping your teammate in public is not something a professional athlete should do.
Well, you came here to comment on it, so...
Yeah, they're generally true. Pedro kind of operated on his own schedule a lot of times, and the club looked the other way. Then again, I'm sure some bench guys might have been actively discouraged from being so open and forthright about teammates and the clubhouse as the old blogger has, so it's not like special treatment is only the province of the Latins on the club.
How about when African-Americans or other minority players speak out they're disruptive (Terrell Owens, Manny, Chad Johnson), but when guys like Brett Favre and Schilling put themselves in places where they don't belong (telling team what to do, other players contract squabbles), it's good for the team and being a stand up guy?
My point was that Schilling's friends are mostly English-speaking, and likewise Manny's and Pedro's friends. That's what language gaps do. A little bit of critical thought might suggest to Schilling that he's been biased by this divide.
yes, but what does opening this up to the press have to do with uniting in disdain? By all accounts, Manny has lost his teammates' support already, but there's no guarantee that he's not going to still be on the team come Friday. I'm all for players being open with the press/fans, but sometimes, for the sake of just a modicum of team cohesion, you need to keep things in-house.
Problems need to be dealt with internally. The front office needs as much as possible to be able to claim plausibly they don't need to make the trade. The team needs as few conflicts as possible if they aren't able to make the trade. This is Schilling putting Schilling ahead of the team.
Manny's done bad things, which are obviously worse than what Schilling's doing here. But being a professional is about recognizing that the team comes first and that means keeping your mouth shut. (At least before hte trade is complete.)
No, I agree with you. Manny deserves every bit of this calling out.
Why does anyone think Schilling gives two shits about the Red Sox ownership and whether they have to give up an extra prospect to get rid of Manny?
Schilling almost certainly gone after this season, and is probably still pissed they convinced him to delay surgery.
He certainly is working off his own agenda, and I don't really blame him.
Unfortunately he was called out in English, which, apparently, he doesn't understand.
So then his point is: It's bad for Manny to have his own agenda, but I can.
No, I don't think anyone, most certainly not others players, begrudges a player the right to look after his own interests.
But, when you stop trying, or refuse to play, you've just crossed the line.
You can try and manipulate management all you want through the press, etc., but what Manny is doing is quitting on his teammates. That won't be tolerated by many people.
This is precisely the Manny Ramirez situation - angry at his ballclub, lashing out, hurting the team to serve his own interests. While what Manny's doing is way, way worse, this is still is very bizarre defense of Schilling.
Do you believe all conservatives are persecuted, or just poor, innocent Curt?
I'm not saying what Schilling is doing is right, it's just well within the realm of acceptable self-serving behavior.
Manny is WAY out in the pale.
But life doesn't work this way. I can put together some brilliant analysis for my boss, but if I constantly refuse to check my work, so that there are careless errors, or random don't show up or refuse to work on certain days, I'm still going to get canned.
Doing part of your job really well doesn't excuse you from doing the rest of your job.
That's a weird tack to take; Esoteric didn't say jack about conservatives. You might as well ask if he believes all spotlight-hogging loudmouthed publicity hounds are persecuted.
Well, if you work in software, technical brilliance can buy you an exemption from just about everything else.
Not for us regular Joes. But, for people that are in very high demand (like athletes) it most certainly does.
For a while, yes it does. But as soon as your talent slips, or an alternative appears, the knives come out, and everyone who you've pissed on and pissed off comes after you. That's what Manny's seeing now.
And as well it should -
I'll take one technically brilliant, creative developer in place of 10 well-schooled dolts who write pristine UML, labor eternally over copious release notes, and spend their time poring over every last word in technical requirements.
Yes and no. First, his talent has slipped, but even in this "down" year he's still damn good. So good that the Red Sox aren't giving him away. In that way, they are still excusing him for his behavior. And, he's getting paid this year, and it's almost guaranteed that he's going to get paid next year, the following, and probably one or two after that. So, besides some carping in the media, he's excused.
It almost certainly means that the reporter has a crappy tape recorder. My guess is that Schilling actually said, "Literally play his dying breath."
I 100% agree with what kevin is saying in defense of Schilling.
Time for me to pack it in I guess.
Sure, if Esoteric hadn't openly expressed his belief that Schilling is only disliked because he's conservative on other threads.
Seriously, with Manny gone there isn't a single likable player on the Red Sox, besides maybe Elsbury (who gets blown so much on ESPN he's soon going to join Vartiek, Pedroia, Youk, Lester and Papelbaun in the ranks of the insufferable).
It will be interesting to see how the front office and media treat Ortiz in a few years when he's in the last year of his contract.
I'm glad Ramirez isn't going anywhere. It really does appear he's become a distraction to the whole ballclub (or maybe the Angels are just playing on a whole other level), and it's in the best interests of every other team that might go to the world series that the Red Sox do not make a big trade to rejuvenate the team.
Sorry, snapper, but your analysis isn't brilliant enough, or your boss would hire someone just out of school to clean up after you. I've seen that often enough.
Wow, 3-4 other replies in the time it took to post mine, or maybe I shoulda refreshed sooner.
So true. We Red Sox fans hate Papi.
Wow! I'm glad I've never worked at the places you guys have.
I've worked at some pretty high powered places (and some not so much ;-)), but I've never seen laziness, sloppiness or refusal to do work tolerated.
Edit: stupidity and poor judgement are often tolerated, on the other hand.
You mean, other than Curt and "snapper"?
Yes.
HTH.
Next question.
They either have no memory, or get too caught up in the CW of the moment, or are FO schills.
Manny was the only Red Sox who didn't quit. The Yanks just ended their season right there, and Manny got on base about 15 times in those 4 games (I think he got hurt in the last game). Thats why I find it amazing people think Manny isn't competitive or is dogging it now. That was never the impression I got from him.
Sure. This applies to Schilling too. He came into spring training fat. He was lazy and stuffed his face.
Yet they tolerate you posting on BTF all day...
Not that you're the only one.
First, I think you're confusing didn't quit with didn't suck. I really doubt Mirabelli or Crisp or Alex Gonzalez quit. That they weren't as good as Manny in the series has more to do with them not being as talented, not their respective work ethic.
And I don't think anyone's ever said it's a permanent condition with Manny. But 5.6 seconds home to first on a play you could beat out doesn't exactly scream balls out.
Not that you're the only one.
Did you notice the past tense? Worked not work in high powered places ;-)
God, I hated those places. Of course, if I'd stayed I'd be making three times as much. Oh well, I'd rather get home for dinner. My current boss, if there's no work to do, wouldn't care if you went to the movies. As long as the work gets done.
I admire Lester, but just overcoming cancer (and having a great story) doesn't make me like him more. Jose Contraras's families struggle toe leave Cuba was inspiring and heart-wrenching, but i still loved it when the Red Sox would shell the guy. Joba Chamberlain's (equally over-played) story is a great one, but I still hope Ortiz takes him deep when they face each other.
Patrick Swazye has cancer, and I hope he can overcome it like Lester, but I won't be renting Roadhouse because of it.
Are the game chatters still accessible? Go check them out.
Okay, now I'm confused. I thought you agreed with Esoteric you had no problem at all with what he said or how he said it.
The ironing is delicious.
Jeez, I haven't cooked that way since I made grilled cheese sandwiches in college. Invest in a microwave, dude.
But as soon as your talent slips, or an alternative appears, the knives come out, and everyone who you've pissed on and pissed off comes after you.
As the old saying goes, be kind to people on the way up -- you'll pass them again on the way down.
As to the article itself: The very last thing Boston needs right now is somebody stirring the pot more. Sometimes it does make sense to call out a teammate, even publicly. But is there any reason to believe that this, especially coming from Schilling, would have a positive effect on Manny?
It sometimes seems like Schilling never has an unexpressed thought. There is a great deal to be said for honesty. But too much of anything can be a problem, even honesty. If you don't believe me, try answering your wife honestly the next time she asks you whether those pants make her butt look big.
Unless, of course, his knees really were hurting him.
Nah, couldn't be. The MRI was clean.
I think they take turns. Gammo is just a caricature of himself now. Sad.
I think Schilling and Goose Gossage should host a show about how real ballplayers should act. It would be solid programming if the new Sirius/XM ever decides to put together a "Who gives a sh#t channel?'' channel.
c'mon, kevin. of course he has an agenda. everybody has an agenda. and him saying out loud what his teammates are thinking is part of that. others have pointed out that speaking his mind at just this time isn't necessarily in the club's interest in reference to getting value for manny if he's traded. that doesn't mean he's wrong about manny, it's his timing that is off, and it demonstrates some of what schilling is about. he's a bumptious blowhard when he's not on the mound winning games. i salute his pitching and his 2004 heroics.
my comment is idiotic? whatever. throwing around the word 'clown' is pretty hot coming from you. if this board is so full of idiots, then why are you here? you don't add much to discussions from what i've seen.
I'll call out the Illinois Department of Employment Security as one place where I saw all those on a daily basis, along with the other more generally tolerated faults you mentioned. The very embodiment of "we don't want nobody nobody sent."
Requiring someone to give $10,000 to the charity you named after yourself as a condition of doing them a favor isn't the greatest example of selflessness.
you are letting your emotions rule your responses. i wonder if you can see how silly you sound sometimes. your method of heaping scorn on people with little to go on makes you a very unattractive person to converse with.
think about it. it's perfectly possible that schilling is hurting his club's chances for getting good value for ramirez if that is what they want to do. and it makes it look as if curt schilling has decided what the red sox should do about ramirez, instead of leaving it to his betters. so even if he's 'right', he is hurting the club. and his timing is bad. period. part of what he puffs himself up about is being a good teammate, etc. ... how is this good for the red sox? fine, your take may be its time for manny to go and you don't care how. that's not strategic thinking at a time when it's needed.
I think, charity of his choice would have been a little better.
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