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Tuesday, December 06, 2005

BostonHerald.com - Boston Red Sox: Damon talks in works

A rundown of the Sox activity in the Winter Meeting. One rumor missing: Last night Peter Gammons reported the Sox received bad news on Josh Beckett’s MRI. Reportedly, the MRI indicated more serious problems with Beckett’s health than the Sox previously believed. Gammons commented the Sox would be lucky to get 20 starts out of Beckett next year. The report appeared on MLB Radio on XM. I haven’t come across any mention of this news in any other news outlet, so I’m not sure of the accuracy of Gammons’ report.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 06, 2005 at 01:57 PM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: red sox

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   1. Spahn Insane Posted: December 06, 2005 at 02:19 PM (#1763455)
Heh.
   2. Artie Ziff Posted: December 06, 2005 at 02:31 PM (#1763469)
Just trying to get the Boston fans' hopes up. I will not believe it until Damon is inked.
   3. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: December 06, 2005 at 04:20 PM (#1763617)
Article says the Sox have interest in Juan Encarnacion, presumably as a a platoon partner for Trot. Color me unimpressed. He's never hit righties significantly better than lefties in his career. If he's the 4th outfielder/worst case scenario full-time centerfielder, he has his uses.

These Mirabelli to the Padres rumors are making me uneasy. Mirabelli leaving makes the Sox a worse team every time Wakefield is on the mound, unless 10 innings of catching Zink has made Shoppach a suitable caddy. Even if that were the case, I think Shoppach has more value as trade bait than as a backup catcher.
   4. OlePerfesser Posted: December 06, 2005 at 04:48 PM (#1763680)
...the Detroit Tigers are another team to watch. They have money to spend, a position to fill...

Uh, not really. Curtis Granderson put up > 800 OPS in his late trial, and he is likely the Bengals' CF of the present and future. Unless Boras has something reeeally incriminating on Dombrowski.

The market for Damon is getting a little arid. The Pahds and Phils now have their CFs, and a couple of teams one could envision wanting one don't really have money.

Which leaves the Cubs, MF Yankees and us. And in play are Damon, Pierre, Hunter (who the Twins would likely be happy to dump for 2nd-tier prospects, given his contract and health) and probably Bradley.

If Boras can turn that situation into 7 years and $84M, or anything like it, then I say we next send him to North Korea to negotiate about those pesky nukes.
   5. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 04:58 PM (#1763694)
The Cubs are either going to trade for Juan Pierre or Brad Wilkerson, it seems. They've never been rumored as intererested in Damon (even though you can never count Hendry out of any stupid race). So it's BOS vs. NYY.

The sequel.
   6. Craig in MN Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:11 PM (#1763721)
Which leaves the Cubs, MF Yankees and us. And in play are Damon, Pierre, Hunter (who the Twins would likely be happy to dump for 2nd-tier prospects, given his contract and health) and probably Bradley.

The Twins keep saying they don't want to trade Hunter, and they'd have to be bowled over by an offer to do so. That might be posturing on their part, but I don't think they they'd trade him for 2nd-tier prospects.

I don't understand why Preston Wilson isn't mentioned in the CF conversations more often. He's a free agent, is younger than Damon, won't demand as much money, and isn't much worse offensively. I think the loser in the Damon and Pierre discussions will probably be the winner.
   7. OlePerfesser Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:20 PM (#1763739)
If Bowden is shopping Wilkerson after a down year, the man's a flaming idiot.

But that reminds me that Preston Wilson's out there twisting in the winds of the free market. If ever there was a Dusty Guy...

Anyway, you're right, levski, it's most likely to come down to us vs. MFY, and it'll be interesting to see what Boras can make of that--but if Pierre's still there for the loser, it might not be much.

I really don't know what to make of Pierre. If you see him as a good-D flyhawk you'd bat 9th, he might be an acceptable consolation prize. But the defensive numbers I've seen on him aren't impressive. I can see why there are so many less-monied teams sniffing around Joey "Cheap Pierre" Gathright.
   8. OlePerfesser Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:32 PM (#1763771)
Well, everybody loves to be bowled over, Craig, but the Twins owe Torii $10.75M for '06, and have a $12M club option for '07 or pay a $2M buyout.

Plus, the guy has been below 4 WARP every year since '01. Even if you assume a $2M marginal revenue per win (and the Twins sure as hell ain't willing to pay that), Hunter's locker is decorated with blinking "DUMP ME" lights on it this holiday season. Brace yourself for a lot more Lew Ford next year.

I notice, BTW, that all of us are scrupulously avoiding the Beckett MRI issue. We're sure Gammo is just being an irresponsible a-hole again, right?
   9. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:35 PM (#1763778)
I don't know, oleperf. gammo usually knows his boston sh!t.
   10. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:41 PM (#1763799)
I'll withhold comment on the Beckett situation until there's more information. I would find it odd, if it's true, since Beckett and Lowell were given physicals prior to the deal being finalized.

Are the Red Sox precluded from making deals with the Nationals while they are still considering Bowden for the GM job? I would REALLY like to see Wilkerson on the Red Sox.
   11. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:51 PM (#1763823)
aco, i thought the sox so concerned about beckett's health that they went back to ask for mota. most sox fans took that as a sign of the boston fo being a bunch of geniuses. maybe the boston fo got owned. after all, we're talking about a medical staff that can't tell an arse from an elbow...
   12. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: December 06, 2005 at 05:58 PM (#1763840)
Ah, I somehow missed that, levski. I thought the deal was simply expanded to included Mota and Garcia.

Hopefully this situation doesn't spin out of control and we somehow end up with Jeff Suppan.
   13. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 06:03 PM (#1763847)
suppan? i thought the cards are peddling marquis. but i get your point.

the deal was expanded because the sox were concerned about some of the medical reports they got from florida, so the marlins threw in mota to speed things along. as far as i know, the sox themselves didn't give beckett an mri before the trade was finalized, relying on reports from the florida staff instead. in other words, this is poetic justice for brandon lyon getting shipped to the pirates and then to arizona
   14. Craig in MN Posted: December 06, 2005 at 06:13 PM (#1763868)
Hunter's locker is decorated with blinking "DUMP ME" lights on it this holiday season. Brace yourself for a lot more Lew Ford next year.

That makes sense to you, and it makes sense to me in theory, but I don't think it makes sense to the Twins front office, or probably even the marketplace. I really don't think there's much demand for Hunter in the trade market, especially with a couple decent free agents and Pierre, Bradley and one of the Phillie CF's perhaps also available for trade. And it would be a huge PR hit for the Twins to trade away a marquis player, who is (sadly) one of the better offensive players on a team that needs to build on its offensive.

What would they get for him? Not much for prospects and $12 million in salary room. What does that money do for them in this market? It won't get them even a pretty good 3rd baseman, shortstop, RF, or DH, because there really aren't any to be had. And they're already planning on adding some players to fill a couple of those holes, so they must not be incredibly strapped for cash. They could use the money to overpay some free agents, but I don't think they would end up being that much better off than if they stayed the course and overpayed Hunter.
   15. Nasty Nate Posted: December 06, 2005 at 06:13 PM (#1763869)
i thought the sox so concerned about beckett's health that they went back to ask for mota. most sox fans took that as a sign of the boston fo being a bunch of geniuses


Well you must come in contact with lots of mota-loving sox fans in your non-BTF life (does it exist?). Because i checked the thread from 11/25 "Mota Shipped to Finalize Beckett Deal" and the sox fans seemed unenthusiastic in general. I'm surprised you dont remember, considering you were kind enough to stop by Sox Therapy and make a dozen posts in that thread.
   16. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 06, 2005 at 06:26 PM (#1763894)
Because i checked the thread from 11/25 "Mota Shipped to Finalize Beckett Deal" and the sox fans seemed unenthusiastic in general.

I was less than enthused to say the least.
   17. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 06:30 PM (#1763913)
lots of mota-loving sox fans

they're also knows as yankee fans, the moment mota takes the hill against the yankees. so yes, i come in contract with a lot of them.
   18. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 06:31 PM (#1763916)
and, fwiw, I remember Darren making tables after tables looking at mota's k rates, bb rates, hr rates, etc, etc, to prove the skeptics wrong. i do know that most sox fans weren't impressed with the mota acquisition...
   19. Pleasant Nate (Upgraded from 'Nate') Posted: December 06, 2005 at 09:35 PM (#1764353)
Gammons is reporting that Wells is more likely going to Oakland, possibly with the Duke coming back -- just what we need, more relief pitchers! Maybe he can be flipped elsewhere.

Also, he says that a Mirabelli for Loretta swap is still likely to happen. I guess it's worth a chance that he can bounce back to 03-04 form, but I like Belli and am worried about the Wakefield factor. Still, it's low $$ and low risk, with a potentially high reward.
   20. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: December 06, 2005 at 09:45 PM (#1764376)
Any more word on the Nixon/Clement for Abreu trade mentioned? I would take that in a hearbeat. You get a better RF who plays 150+ games and save $3 million '06 and are out $5 million in '07.
   21. 1k5v3L Posted: December 06, 2005 at 09:49 PM (#1764390)
Actually, rotoworld thinks Nixon might end up in Pitt for Kip Wells or Mark Redman.
   22. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: December 06, 2005 at 10:06 PM (#1764418)
Sorry, Sox are out $7 million in '07 comparing Abreu to Clement. (I forgot the Abreu buyout.)
   23. Danny Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:05 PM (#1764479)
WTF are the A's going to do with Wells? I would hope he's either on the way to LA for Bradley or handcuffed to Youks on his way to Oakland...
   24. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:08 PM (#1764489)
I don't quite get Wells to the A's either, even if it's followed by Zito leaving Oakland.
   25. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:09 PM (#1764494)
I'd imagine it's part of a three-way that involves the Dodgers and Bradley, yeah. Something like Wells from the Sox to the A's for Payton (to take over CF, and good by, Jesus), then Wells to the Dodgers for Bradley, all straight up. That would make sense for each team, really. Although, the Red Sox would be better off trading Wells for Bradley and forgetting the A's. But, Lucchino may not want Bradley.
   26. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:11 PM (#1764500)
The A's could use Wells as a reliever till the trade deadline, too. Sure, he'd ##### and moan, but maybe not that much, knowing he was headed to a(nother) contender come July 31st. And I think Wells could be dynamite as a setup guy.
   27. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:12 PM (#1764504)
And he'd be on the west coast in the meantime. You could sell him on that, maybe; west coast, fun, contender, a trade to be a starter for anothoer contender later on. Sounds good to me.


bluh, duh, all that...
   28. Danny Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:12 PM (#1764505)
The A's could use Wells as a reliever till the trade deadline, too. Sure, he'd #### and moan, but maybe not that much, knowing he was headed to a(nother) contender come July 31st. And I think Wells could be dynamite as a setup guy.


I'd rather have Duchscherer in relief than Wells, though I guess the A's best LH reliever right now is Ron Flores.
   29. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:14 PM (#1764507)
handcuffed to Youks on his way to Oakland...

That's a compelling mental image
   30. Sexy Lizard Posted: December 06, 2005 at 11:15 PM (#1764508)
Something like Wells from the Sox to the A's for Payton

Do we really think Payton could be accepted back? I have a hard time getting a read on how much whatever it was that happened last year left a sour taste in people's mouths.
   31. Darren Posted: December 07, 2005 at 02:16 AM (#1764821)
and, fwiw, I remember Darren making tables after tables looking at mota's k rates, bb rates, hr rates, etc, etc, to prove the skeptics wrong. i do know that most sox fans weren't impressed with the mota acquisition...

iw nothing. Read the thread. I repeatedly said that if Beckett was hurt, getting Mota did nothing to make the trade work. You, on the other hand, said that it was a deal that the Sox 'had to make.'

What a shock, levski makes a ridiculous comment bashing Sox fans for their stupidity. Then he can't back it up, so he flails aimlessly, only further illustrating how stupid the first statement was.
   32. OlePerfesser Posted: December 07, 2005 at 05:39 AM (#1765047)
Do we really think Payton could be accepted back?

Emphatically not; when you make a guy walk the plank, that's that.

Plus, he's no kind of solution in CF, even for a single year.
   33. Danny Posted: December 07, 2005 at 06:25 AM (#1765087)
Plus, he's no kind of solution in CF, even for a single year.


Why not? He's about average or a tad below offensively among CF regulars, and he should be a plus defensively.
   34. Danny Posted: December 07, 2005 at 08:50 PM (#1766084)
For his career, Payton has a higher walk rate with runners on than with the bases empty.
   35. 1k5v3L Posted: December 07, 2005 at 08:53 PM (#1766091)
oh, darren, chill. you'll live longer, ulcers free.

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