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1. heyyoo Posted: January 18, 2010 at 02:42 PM (#3440091)you'll have to pay me...ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
The UN representatives are confused. Number Two COUGHS.
DR. EVIL
(frustrated)
Sorry. ONE-HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!
Alternatively, going by the 40/60/80 model, he's projected to be worth about 6 wins by Chone. So his value on the open market at $3.5 mil/win would be around $21 mil, and 40% of that would be $8.4, which sounds too low to me.
Giants $12,000,000
Lincecum $16,000,000
If the Giants are smart, this never gets to arbitration. Therefore, it'll probably get to arbitration.
So why WOULDN'T he ask for $20 million? I can conjure up no good reason not to outside of thinking the media backlash will somehow be damaging. But if I'm him, with that body, and knowing how pitching careers are often dramatically cut short, ask for the money you can.
And he CAN ask for 20.
Don Mattingly, 1987
I also don't see how he holds the chips. He's not going to sit out the season--he needs them (slightly) more than they need him.
Ahh, another weed joke!
Sounds good to me. He should ask for 5 mil and sole ownership of Alcatraz Island. He can then declare indepdence and legalize pot in his new nation. Other than the immigration troubles, things will go swimmingly.
The fans will FRY the Giant's management if they don't sign him. Totally not researched, but I've got to believe if he performs like 2008/2009 he's worth 20 to the team. However, to shamelessly help MY thinking, let's go with 18.
ANNNND say the split is 10 and 18. If I'm his agent I'm highlighting what Clemens got for a half season, checking in on CC and Burnett, mentioning Zambrano, mentioning BARRY FREAKIN' ZITO, suggesting Johan Santana. Tim.Is.The.Best.NL.Pitcher. Just look at the CYs.
Pay up.
Which you could do but not much of it would matter. Arbitration is all about comparisons to players with similar service time. So some of his comps are:
Jake Peavy ($2.5mm
Joe Blanton ($3.7mm)
Roy Halladay ($3.8mm)
Felix Hernandez ($3.8mm)
Brandon Webb ($4.5mm)
Roy Oswalt ($5.9mm)
CC Sabathia ($5.3mm)
Carlos Zambrano ($6.5mm)
Granted Lincecum destroys many of his comps above. But I don't see how he pulls down $20mm.
Agreed - they'll probably settle in the $10-11M range.
Not necessarily. From the CBA, note the last sentence:
Yes, but ...
When Ryan Howard went through the arbitration process, the comps he and his agent presented to the panel included a lot of players who had significantly more service time. The reigning MVP listed a lot of the other MVPs active in the game as well as some of the best sluggers of recent -- and not so recent -- past. The panel agreed and awarded Howard the player's requested figure rather than the team's offered one.
The CBA expressly allows players (or teams) to use comparators who have different service time and, if those players are truly more representative, will be considered by the panel.
edit: a few sips of a cola based product to Danny
Won a few awards for my mastery of it, as a matter of fact. Why don't you take your false sense of superiority, stick it in the same pocket of your briefcase where you keep that marble-sized brain of yours, and toss the whole shebang in a volcano?
But Howard still only got $10 mil--2 years ago. He may have used MVPs as comps, but he did so while arguing for a salar that was about 1/2 of theirs. His argument, IIRC, was also based on the idea that they had kept him in the minors too long.
Howard is probably another good data point. He won and got $10 mil. I think that is more info in favor of Lincecum asking for 12-14.
It's not going to happen in this case because San Francisco has the money, but what if Lincecum was on a truly small market team such as the Pirates or Marlins and he aimed this high with his demands? Would we be hearing about trade rumors about now?
Howard got what he asked for.
I don't expect Tim to ask for 18 mill. I'm just asking 'why not'? Why isn't he worth more than Zito? As much as Zambrano? And if the answer is, "he is", then why not consider asking for it.
to recap, I don't think The Team of Tim will ask for more than $15 mill ; )
Which was only $10 mil--nowhere near what an MVP is worth on the open market. So his win tells us very little about whether his using other MVPs as comps was successful. It also tells us, I think, that his reps saw the limitations to their argument.
I think the answer is pretty clear, though. It's because of his service time. It's the same reason that Evan Longoria settled for his contract and Dustin Pedroia for his. The system doesn't allow them to get the same value as guys who have put in 6+ years.
Ya think? ; )
I say he asks for and gets $17 million. At $282 an ounce, Timmy could buy 3,768 pounds of pot, unless he decides to pay income tax.
Yeah, but after the cops confiscate the three thousand pounds of pot, I'm sure they'll declare the street value of the one ton of weed as being 50 million dollars. After the thousand pounds of ganja gets locked away in the evidence locker, I'm sure Lincecum will regret the money he spent on the 200 pounds of hashish. He'll probably regret it even more when the 100 pounds of pot gets destroyed in an incinerator.
I've seen stories on the TV news where they show CAMP authorities saving America's misguided youth by torching hundreds of pot plants they found growing on public lands somewhere. What I wonder is if any of those cops, exposed to the smoke from those great infernos, have ever tested positive for THC? Have any been fired due to the positive tests?
"The 2006 CAMP accomplishments include:
Seizure of 1,675,681 plants worth more than $6.7 billion, setting a new record"
Yet another example of the misguided benchmarks used in the war on drugs.
My actual response wasn't that interesting since the post orders anticipated something like this (somebody who can authorize this is on call), but as I'm sure you can imagine the temptation for some kind of smart-ass response was huge.
It makes sense from the standpoint of having been doubted his entire professional and amateur career. He probably wouldn't agree with the team's assessment of his injury risk. Instead, I think he'll get a great deal of satisfaction out of going year to year, with his fate in his control, and proving the doubters wrong.
If you are suggesting he buys shake, then he could probably afford 10,000 pounds for $17 million. But as a major league ballplayer, smoking shake is seen as déclassé. I'm sure Timmy would not want to fall out of favor with his friends and colleagues in the big leagues. As seen in this picture, Tim is exclusively a bud man.
From MercuryNews.COM:
"The $10 million figure could be a starting point for Lincecum, who made $650,000 last season. Interestingly, the Giants could have chosen any salary they wished for 2010 if they had only waited 10 more days before calling up Lincecum in May 2007.
Lincecum has accrued two years, 148 days of service time since his major league debut. According to the basic agreement, players in the top 17 percent of service time between two and three years are eligible for arbitration. Lincecum cleared the bar by nine days.
Those nine days are about to cost the Giants $10 million or more. While it's unlikely, there has been speculation that Thurman could file for $23 million — matching CC Sabathia's record salary for a pitcher — and have grounds to defend it. That's because Lincecum's special accomplishments allow Thurman to compare him to the game's highest-paid pitchers regardless of service time."
edit: true figures to be released tomorrow
That's what they all say until the truckload of money pulls up ... unless they don't think the truck is coming in which case they say they're interested in a long-term deal.
Not that they will but if the Giants offered 6/$110 (12/15/18/20/22/23) he'd be a fool not to take it.
However, I didn't realize he was a super-2 not a full-3. That does change things and I'm not so sure he'll set a "first year" record now ... though I'm certain he'll set a super-2 record this year (I have no idea what that record is ... was that Howard?) and a full-3+ record next year.
If we're talking 4 years of arb, 10/14/18/22 (year by year) seems a reasonable guess to me; maybe as low as 10/13/16/19. I could see a full-arb buyout plus one year of FA somewhere in the $75-85 range. Anything less and the Giants are doing real well; anything more and Lincecum should jump on it. At these prices, it's hard to see the Giants having much incentive not to go year by year.
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