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Thursday, July 08, 2010

BP Unfiltered:  The Suggestion Box Is Open


I'd like to know what you think of BP just past the midpoint of 2010. I'd like to know what you like, what you don't like, what you would like to see more of, what you would like to see less of. I can't promise I'll be able to respond to each comment but I will read them all. What I can promise is that I and the rest of us here will take your feedback into great consideration as we continue to strive to make BP the type of site that baseball fans feel they absolutely must visit every day.



BP staff member Joe Sheehan

That, more or less, is why forums are basically a non-starter. All cost, no revenue.

TangoTiger

Fangraphs has forums, and they don't charge their readers. Primer has forums, and they don't charge their readers. You've got to have a better reason for not having a forum considering that you are already charging readers.

BP staff member Joe Sheehan

How about this?

I've done sports content as a business for 15 years. By any standard I'm one of a small number of people to do it successfully outside the mainstream, I've played most of the roles one can play and holy god I'm sick of listening to you act as if you've had 1% of the success the people you criticize have had. How about you grant that I might know what I'm talking about, given that sports content has been my career, without me having to make a business case to someone with no standing to ask for one?

Fangraphs, as far as I can tell, is financed by a rich grandpa. Primer/BTF/Newsstand/Brand of the Day isn't a business in any real sense of the word, it's r.s.b ported to the Web and stripped of its spark. That you would make these comparisons shows just how little you understand of Prospectus, how little you've ever understood.

Stick to being an academic, Thomas. Stick to your sycophant-laden fora and your above-it-all mien. Stop jumping in here and cheap-shotting a business that you've never comprehended on your best day.
Dan Szymborski Posted: July 08, 2010 at 07:51 PM | 799 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   1. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: July 08, 2010 at 07:59 PM (#3582251)
Folks actually give their money to this prick? Haven't read them in years.
   2. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:00 PM (#3582253)
In all honesty, we don't really have much of a forums emphasis - it's basically a place for the daily off-topic thread and a clearinghouse for threads that go gooey-kablooie.
   3. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:02 PM (#3582257)
I'm tired of people who have never been elected president criticizing Bush and Obama.
   4. tshipman Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:05 PM (#3582261)
Thanks for confirming why I've never paid for BP, Joe Sheehan!
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:08 PM (#3582269)
We've been stripped of our spark?
   6. robinred Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:09 PM (#3582271)
I think Joe Sheehan and David Cameron should have an "Internet Charm Contest."

Here is how TT responded:

TangoTiger
(57181)"I'm sick of listening to you act as if you've had 1% of the success the people you criticize have had"

I didn't realize that my success level was required to offer my opinion. Joe, why is BPro asking for opinions of the rest of us little people then?

In any case, I made no insulting or disparaging remark.

"Stop jumping in here and cheap-shotting a business that you've never comprehended on your best day."

First, don't tell me what to do. Secondly, exactly what did I cheap-shot?

You read whatever you wanted to read into what I said, and decided to use that as a launching pad to tell me whatever you wanted to tell me. And, for some reason, rather than send me an email, you needed to tell everyone else this.

I hope BPro leaves your post here.

***

Just before Joe posted this, I put a link on my blog to Joe's newsletter. Joe is one of the best writers around, and I stand by my position to support him, and I will certainly leave that link there.

___
   7. RJ in TO Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:09 PM (#3582273)
I thought Sheehan was no longer a member of BP.
   8. The Original SJ Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:12 PM (#3582277)
Fun guy.
   9. RJ in TO Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:13 PM (#3582278)
Incidentally, I like the "We'd like your suggestions" being immediately followed by a "Who the #### are you to tell us what to do?"
   10. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:13 PM (#3582279)
At least he didn't call Tango an economically illiterate #####.
   11. Guapo Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:14 PM (#3582281)
9 out of 10. Point deducted for missed opportunity to call Tango an "economically illiterate #####\"

Edit: Devin, here's your Coke, you #####
   12. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:15 PM (#3582284)
You forgot ugly, lazy and disrespectful.
   13. phredbird Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:15 PM (#3582286)
We've been stripped of our spark?


yeah, ever since kevin's been banned, its been dullsville around here.

*rolls eyes*
   14. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:16 PM (#3582288)
We've been stripped of our spark?


I want the fire back.
   15. bunyon Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:16 PM (#3582289)
Personally, I've been appalled at their behavior long before the spill.
   16. Ron Johnson Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:17 PM (#3582293)
#2 Well Dan I tend to think of Primer as a forum with new threads constantly opening.

As to Sheehan's overall point, I'd think you and Jim would know best but I don't think Sheehan is wrong when he talks about the time required for the care and feeding of any kind of forum.

The question BP would have to ask themselves is how much extra revenue would a well constructed forum setup bring in. I think the answer is a fair amount if they can get the regulars to be part of it and roughly none if they can't. Without Christina (who was one of my faves back in the RSB days) and company being regularly involved what's the attraction of a discussion at BP over here or Fangraphs?
   17. Padgett Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:17 PM (#3582294)
Is this part of a preexisting Sheehan-Tango feud?
   18. Greg K Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:20 PM (#3582302)
How dare he! BTF is like your dim-witted cousin; only the family gets to make fun of him.
   19. The Good Face Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:21 PM (#3582303)
Thanks for confirming why I've never paid for BP, Joe Sheehan!


Seconded.

Also, I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark. We need scapegoats here people!
   20. RJ in TO Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:22 PM (#3582305)
Also, I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark.

There's too many Canadians around here. Their natural national dullness is overwhelming everything.
   21. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:22 PM (#3582307)
Jim is too busy kanoodling on Horseneck Beach to care for and feed the forums here.
   22. Steve Treder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:23 PM (#3582309)
Wow. Just ... wow.
   23. Ron Johnson Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:23 PM (#3582311)
#18 Don't think so. See the tail end of #7.
   24. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:23 PM (#3582312)
Incidentally, I like the "We'd like your suggestions" being immediately followed by a "Who the #### are you to tell us what to do?"

That's the funniest part, yes.
   25. robinred Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:24 PM (#3582314)
Also, I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark.

Whoever stopped posting as Cookie Monster.
   26. Zoppity Zoop Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:25 PM (#3582316)

Personally, I've been appalled at their behavior long before the spill.


Will Carroll's suggesting for cleaning up the spill: Fire and a whole lot of donut batter.
   27. Greg K Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:27 PM (#3582320)
There's too many Canadians around here. Their natural national dullness is overwhelming everything.

Just wait for the inevitable "Do We Really Need a Queen?" thread.

Hint: The answer is yes, because she makes everyone wear cool hats
   28. Chris Dial Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:28 PM (#3582322)
That is HILARIPUS. It's almost surreal.
   29. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:28 PM (#3582323)
I think Joe Sheehan and David Cameron should have an "Internet Charm Contest."
Say what you will about his politics, but David Cameron's Eton vowels charm me every time.
   30. Russ Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:29 PM (#3582325)
BTF is just not that interesting without a daily Pete Rose Award post.
   31. depletion Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:29 PM (#3582324)
Police believe alcohol was involved.
   32. Padgett Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:29 PM (#3582327)
#18 Don't think so. See the tail end of #7.

I saw that, which is why I'm confused. This reads like an insane overreaction, even for Sheehan.
   33. Randy Jones Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:30 PM (#3582329)
Also, I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark.

There's too many Canadians around here. Their natural national dullness is overwhelming everything.


Interesting wording you chose. Trying to distance yourself or just trying to confuse people into thinking I posted that?
   34. Guapo Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:31 PM (#3582330)
So who is the Fangraphs "rich grandpa?" Scrooge McDuck?
   35. bunyon Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:31 PM (#3582331)
Also, I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark.

I think we lost a lot when they started testing for greenies.
   36. Greg K Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:32 PM (#3582334)
Interesting wording you chose. Trying to distance yourself or just trying to confuse people into thinking I posted that?

I'll admit I read the name three times to be sure
   37. RJ in TO Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:32 PM (#3582335)
Interesting wording you chose. Trying to distance yourself or just trying to confuse people into thinking I posted that?

Just seeing if people are paying attention.
   38. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:33 PM (#3582338)
BTF is just not that interesting without a daily Pete Rose Award post.


WINNER!
   39. fra paolo Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:34 PM (#3582339)
Given Sheehan's sour attitude towards this fine site, I'm glad I didn't buy BPro's book this year.
   40. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:35 PM (#3582342)
Here's one comment on that page that I sure as hell hope is ignored:

BP should buy baseball-reference.com and link it up with Cot's Contracts and PECOTA. That would provide unequaled player/team information and give context to PECOTA's projections.


Let the Lords of BPro take their shrewdly acquired profits and buy something more on their own performance level, like the Baltimore Orioles.
   41. The Essex Snead Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:36 PM (#3582345)
[8] To be fair to BP, Dave Pease shows up in that thread (tho it's hard to spot him) and notes that JS is speaking for himself and not BP, despite his commenter account being labeled as "BP Staff." Also, looks like comments on that thread are still open.
   42. The Good Face Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:36 PM (#3582347)
Also, I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark.

Whoever stopped posting as Cookie Monster.


You make a compelling argument...
   43. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:38 PM (#3582351)
So what is the date on the Cease and Desist letter from BPro regarding this thread? Put me down for the 14th.
   44. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:40 PM (#3582359)
I always liked Sheehan's stuff. He gets a bit prickly but I always enjoyed his work. I let my BP sub lapse in January though, they just haven't been offering anything worth my money in a long time.
   45. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:42 PM (#3582364)
I can't imagine a scenario where Sean would sell B-Ref. It's just my gut on the sitch.
   46. RJ in TO Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:43 PM (#3582366)
I can't imagine a scenario where Sean would sell B-Ref. It's just my gut on the sitch.

Hasn't he already sold at least a partial stake in the ownership?
   47. Ron Johnson Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:44 PM (#3582367)
#42 Dave's a good guy and he'd probably be the person who'd be doing the care and feeding of any forums. His opinion on this subject would have to carry a lot of weight.
   48. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:44 PM (#3582368)
What was the transaction that Sean made this past off-season? Didn't he sell a portion of BBRef (maybe "sell" is not the right word)?

Coke to Ryan.
   49. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:45 PM (#3582372)
Maybe it's a joke? Tango says earlier:

Perhaps at BPro, there's an expectation (from some? many? few?) readers that authors should be much more tempered in their responses. ESPN for example won't ever let their authors strongly challenge their readers. To me, that simply makes it a less colorful atmosphere. I would much prefer to see Rob Neyer openly challenge his readers, and even take some of them down a peg or three. You get rid of the riffraff, and you end up with a better setting.

I find it bothersome that to get to appreciate Colin and Matt's personalities, you'd have to read their comments on my site or at Primer, and not on this site. It's an (implied) editorial position I don't agree with, but again, I may be in the minority here.

...

You originally said this: "His last article was the very worst I've ever read on this site"

What if one of the BPro authors chose one of your comments and said: "dawhipsaw's last comment was the very worst I've ever read on this site".

Are you suggesting that the financial motive of the site should allow the readers to be far harsher than authors in terms of peer-to-peer interaction? If that's the case, then it's no wonder why ESPN authors rarely, if ever, are found in the comments section of their own articles. And it's no wonder that BPro authors are so tempered, and not often seen, here.

On the other hand, if we ignore the financial motive, and simply allow the authors the right to interact at the same level and with the same rules as the readers, then what Matt said, and the way he said it, was in-line with the original commenter.

This is really an editorial decision by BPro as to how much they want to handcuff their authors.

I would also think that to the intelligent readers of BPro that the financial motive is benign. Otherwise, you are suggesting that as customers, you are allowed to insult those who are providing you with a service, as long as you are paying for it. And the service provider has to take it because you are paying them.

Matt responded in-kind, and therefore, there is no issue.


Maybe Sheehan's sort of giving Tango what he's asking for.
   50. SoSH U at work Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:46 PM (#3582373)
So what is the date on the Cease and Desist letter from BPro regarding this thread? Put me down for the 14th.


Yeah, mocking a change in brand name for BTF is kind of rich coming from one of these guys.
   51. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:48 PM (#3582378)
Hasn't he already sold at least a partial stake in the ownership?


I think he partnered with someone bigger, which could be a partial sell. But he's still heads deep in the daily upkeep of the site. It's still his baby. And to be more clear, I can't imagine a scenario where he'd sell to Prospectus.
   52. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:53 PM (#3582385)
Wrong thread.
   53. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:54 PM (#3582388)
I can't stop laughing at this. Comedy gold.
   54. Harry Balsagne, anti-Centaur hate crime division Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:55 PM (#3582392)
I need to know who to blame for stripping our spark.


Three words: NBA Playoffs Thread.
   55. Greg K Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:57 PM (#3582396)
Three words: NBA Playoffs Thread.

Not to mention those goobers in the soccer thread

Get a real sport!
   56. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:58 PM (#3582397)
Never read a word Sheehan wrote.
   57. bads85 Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:58 PM (#3582398)
Whoever stopped posting as Cookie Monster


Didn't Cookie Monster stop posting about the time Kevin was banned?
   58. RJ in TO Posted: July 08, 2010 at 08:58 PM (#3582400)
Maybe it's a joke? Tango says earlier:

If it's a joke, Sheehan probably should have given a heads-up to the other BP members before making it through his BP account. As noted by The Essex Snead in #42, Dave Pease certainly felt the need to distance BP from it.
   59. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:00 PM (#3582404)
The Captain was not the Cookie Monster.
   60. SoSH U at work Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:04 PM (#3582411)
I believe Jeff K is the Cookie Monster. I haven't seen him on the site in several months, here or in the Lounge.
   61. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:09 PM (#3582416)
Stick to being an academic, Thomas. Stick to your sycophant-laden fora and your above-it-all mien.


Wow, that isn't my experience in academia at all. I studied the wrong stuff!
   62. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:20 PM (#3582430)
There are at least five good BBTF handles in the last two paragraphs of Sheehan's rant.
   63. Danny Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:29 PM (#3582444)
I don't know what history they have, but Sheehan's obviously been wanting to say that for awhile. I'd guess he's mostly right about forums not generating profit, but holy escalation.

So is Appelman's grandpa taking a bath on Fangraphs?
   64. Greg K Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:29 PM (#3582445)
Stick to being an academic, Thomas. Stick to your sycophant-laden fora and your above-it-all mien.
Wow, that isn't my experience in academia at all. I studied the wrong stuff!

Too bad for you!
I know the fawning honies are why I got into 1620s political history
   65. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:33 PM (#3582451)
Primer/BTF/Newsstand/Brand of the Day isn't a business in any real sense of the word, it's r.s.b ported to the Web and stripped of its spark.


I agree with this, with one modification, which is that BTF keeps a steady stream of article submissions coming to fuel its posters. But, at the same time, it's not like rsbb in its heyday was hurting for thread starters.

While I enjoy BTF, I think it's rsbb "stripped of its spark" in that threads are constantly getting shut down without warning. That's not really a great way to treat the posters, who invest a lot of time and effort into a discussion only to have the trap door suddenly open up and swallow a thread. It's a problem.

A lot of the affected threads are political discussions, but some -- like the Johan Santana thread -- are baseball stories. And as far as OT goes, we've currently got basketball and soccer threads that are each a billion posts long...
   66. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:34 PM (#3582453)
There are at least five good BBTF handles in the last two paragraphs of Sheehan's rant.

I count eight:

1. Rich Grandpa
2. Not a Business in Any Real Sense of the Word
3. Ported to the Web
4. Stripped Of Its Spark
5. Stuck to Being an Academic
6. Sycophant-Laden Fora
7. Above-It-All Mien
8. Never Comprehended on My Best Day
   67. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:35 PM (#3582456)
Thanks for confirming why I've never paid for BP, Joe Sheehan!


Joe leaving is exactly why I _stopped_ paying for BP.

I haven't been to the site since the day he left.
   68. still hunting for a halo-red october (in Delphi) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:41 PM (#3582468)
I let my subscription expire a few weeks ago. I easily get way more out of BBTF, Fangraphs, and other sites than BP now.
   69. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:41 PM (#3582469)
"Not a Business in Any Real Sense of the Word" should replace "Baseball For The Thinking Fan" as this site's motto.
   70. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:43 PM (#3582472)
2. Not a Business in Any Real Sense of the Word
stolen
   71. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:44 PM (#3582475)
Ray, the threads get closed down because they denigrate into an off topic shitfest. The NBA and Soccer threads have been very free of rancor and pissiness. Politics threads have not. It really isn't that hard to understand. Perhaps if you posted in the NBA thread or soccer thread you would see. Wait a second, I see another pattern....
   72. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:44 PM (#3582476)
A lot of the affected threads are political discussions, but some -- like the Johan Santana thread -- are baseball stories. And as far as OT goes, we've currently got basketball and soccer threads that are each a billion posts long...

The basketball and soccer threads don't have people threatening each or flame wars about rape.
   73. Chris Dial Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:48 PM (#3582485)
Today's exchange appears to have crashed The Book Blog.
   74. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:49 PM (#3582486)
The basketball and soccer threads don't have people threatening each or flame wars about rape.


And such is their loss.
   75. still hunting for a halo-red october (in Delphi) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:52 PM (#3582492)
Also, is it just me, or has the BBTF Newsblog been kind of dead lately?
   76. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:56 PM (#3582497)
The basketball and soccer threads don't have people threatening each or flame wars about rape.

I have no gripe about threads disappearing if that's the way you want to handle those issues, but wouldn't it be easier to just whack the offending posters on the knuckles for that stuff? It's really only a couple of people who are generally incapable of having a civil discussion on a contentious issue. Others will get worked up here and there, but it wouldn't take much to deal with the biggest problems.

Again, that's not a complaint- I'm comfortable with whatever TPTB want to do- but I do think Ray makes a reasonable point about people spending some time and energy contributing and then having those contributions wiped out.
   77. fra paolo Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:56 PM (#3582499)
The soccer thread doesn't have people threatening each other

Which is surprising considering how many Brits are posting there.
   78. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 09:59 PM (#3582503)
The basketball and soccer threads don't have people threatening each or flame wars about rape.


The "threatening each other" act is mostly performed by Sam. Regardless, sometimes an offending comment could be stricken with as much effort as closing the thread takes. Though in fairness I realize that ultimately that's a lot of work.
   79. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:00 PM (#3582504)
The basketball and soccer threads don't have people threatening each or flame wars about rape.

There's nothing wrong with rape, in moderation.
   80. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:02 PM (#3582506)
The "threatening each other" act is mostly performed by Sam. Regardless, sometimes an offending comment could be stricken with as much effort as closing the thread takes. Though in fairness I realize that ultimately that's a lot of work.

Actually closing an offending comment is next to impossible until our next database revamp. Closing a comment at the moment actually takes the entire site offline. There are some issues with very large databases that the new version of EE is supposed to take care of.
   81. JMPH Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:03 PM (#3582507)
There's nothing wrong with rape, in moderation.

I laughed at this, and now I'm going straight to hell when I die.
   82. Don Malcolm Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:04 PM (#3582509)
Taken from the comments at the YouTube site that Paul linked to:

Shouldn't really condone the violence , especially as a palace fan on the receiving end!--but it WAS f'ing funny seeing two "nuns" grappling with a burly policeman? in the centrecircle and a Robin Hood being arrested with his tights all ripped and defiantly clinging on to his bow. Can only imagine the scene at South Norwood Nick !!

Things like this do tend to put all of this into perspective, don't they? Maybe if Tango dressed up in the Robin Hood outfit and Joe put on the habit, this exchange would be seen in a more appropriate context.

But we do need to be careful here, lest the BPro boys (and girls) throw their lawyers at us again...
   83. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:05 PM (#3582510)
If only there was some part of this site specifically set up for off topic threads.
   84. villageidiom Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:08 PM (#3582512)
In defense of Sheehan... Sheehan's response was to feedback on their comment rating system, which is a community-policed system. It was suggested that, because the community often shuts down stuff they disagree with rather than stuff that is offensive, BP staff should spend the time to moderate it. Essentially someone is suggesting they move to a higher-cost forum model because the really-low-cost model they have is ineffective.

The essence of Sheehan's response is that a higher-cost model for forums is not a good business proposition for them because the revenue won't support it. The fact that other businesses, with a different business model, are able to do it doesn't mean squat. I work for an insurance company, in a building with a cafeteria, in which they sell ice cream bought from a supplier. It doesn't follow that my company should make ice cream, simply because they're selling it and other businesses like Ben & Jerry's make the ice cream they sell. Tango's response could be (mis)read as being just as naive as someone telling someone at Amazon not to charge for their books because they're free at the library.

That's all I can muster for a defense of Sheehan, because otherwise he is engaging in supreme asshattery.
   85. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:13 PM (#3582514)
The "threatening each other" act is mostly performed by Sam.


I'm like the Devil and Grey Hulk all mashed up together.
   86. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:14 PM (#3582516)
Actually closing an offending comment is next to impossible until our next database revamp. Closing a comment at the moment actually takes the entire site offline. There are some issues with very large databases that the new version of EE is supposed to take care of.


Fair enough.

As to my main point, it seems that in recent months it has not taken much to close a thread (or threads are being closed in essence for being political discussions). If that's a change in policy, such would ideally be announced, or at least acknowledged, so that people can decide whether it's worth it to begin participating in a thread that is likely to shut down.
   87. Willie Mayspedes Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:14 PM (#3582517)
Which is surprising considering how many Brits are posting there.


Wow that one guy getting his hair pulled is going to have a headache after that little scuffle.
   88. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:14 PM (#3582518)
If only there was some part of this site specifically set up for off topic threads.


There used to be, and then one day it disappeared.
   89. tshipman Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:14 PM (#3582519)
It was suggested that, because the community often shuts down stuff they disagree with rather than stuff that is offensive, BP staff should spend the time to moderate it. Essentially someone is suggesting they move to a higher-cost forum model because the really-low-cost model they have is ineffective.


See, this is dumb. My GF works for Craigslist and handles a lot of their forums. Craigslist has a huge number of forums and a huge number of posts. They use a flagging system similar to BP's. It takes her 1.5 hours per day to clear out all their forum flags, checking each one for content.

In short, Joe Sheehan is a clown.
   90. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:15 PM (#3582520)
If only there was some part of this site specifically set up for off topic threads.


My only problem with the lounges is the formatting.
   91. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:16 PM (#3582522)
If only there was some part of this site specifically set up for off topic threads.


If only. Then we could deposit the basketball and soccer threads there.
   92. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:22 PM (#3582529)
The formatting is fine. The quoting posts makes it a lot easier to figure out who you are talking to and to respond to a post at a later date without it getting lost. And you can start any tipoic you want in the appropriate forum and for the most part Dan and Jim leave you alone. Just don't post links to certain websites that shall remain nameless. Stop playing the victims, it really is pitiful.
   93. Fresh Prince of Belisle Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:25 PM (#3582534)
Ignoring the Joe v. Tom: Mom's Baseball Brawl, I think what BP's largely missing is that in a lot of ways, they're just too "insider" nowadays. There's obviously a fine line between snark and simply being a jerk, but they're really missing some of the cockiness, the swagger, sense of fun that they used to have on the site.

It seems like there's some sort of overediting going on there as
a lot of the writing, even from fine people and great analysts, tends to be a little bit vanilla (with the exception of Kahrl, though even Kahrl's kind of toned down).
   94. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:29 PM (#3582540)
Just don't post links to certain websites that shall remain nameless.


Wait, what? What are we talking about here?
   95. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:32 PM (#3582542)
As part of my probation I am not allowed to discuss that incident.
   96. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:33 PM (#3582547)
Uh uh uh, I believe you just did!

To the dungeon with you!!
   97. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:35 PM (#3582549)
Flip
   98. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:35 PM (#3582550)
What is the link to Sheehan's newsletter?
   99. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:35 PM (#3582551)
Stop playing the victims, it really is pitiful.


I'm not playing the victim. When Dan brings the thread-hammer the most I do is mock him for it. This is not out of character for my basic relation to most people here. Or just "most people." I was merely explaining why I don't really frequent the lounges.
   100. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 08, 2010 at 10:35 PM (#3582552)
If that's a change in policy, such would ideally be announced, or at least acknowledged, so that people can decide whether it's worth it to begin participating in a thread that is likely to shut down.

I did talk about being stricter about nastiness, especially in political threads, back in February. A lot of new traffic has come in from ESPN and we really don't want people who visit here as a result from ESPN.com articles or references in the magazine to have the first thing they see being a bunch of guys all accusing each other of not being sensitive about rape.

As BD notes, the Forums are set up for people, who if they want to have all sorts of nastiness and flame wars, to do so to their hearts content. The lounge, with a few exceptions, is completely laissez-faire.

I rather close down threads than have to discipline otherwise well-behaved posters. Keeping discussion areas compelling and interesting on a highly-trafficked website is a lot more than simply banning someone once in a while and letting the rest run on autopilot.
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