Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, July 08, 2010

BP Unfiltered:  The Suggestion Box Is Open


I'd like to know what you think of BP just past the midpoint of 2010. I'd like to know what you like, what you don't like, what you would like to see more of, what you would like to see less of. I can't promise I'll be able to respond to each comment but I will read them all. What I can promise is that I and the rest of us here will take your feedback into great consideration as we continue to strive to make BP the type of site that baseball fans feel they absolutely must visit every day.



BP staff member Joe Sheehan

That, more or less, is why forums are basically a non-starter. All cost, no revenue.

TangoTiger

Fangraphs has forums, and they don't charge their readers. Primer has forums, and they don't charge their readers. You've got to have a better reason for not having a forum considering that you are already charging readers.

BP staff member Joe Sheehan

How about this?

I've done sports content as a business for 15 years. By any standard I'm one of a small number of people to do it successfully outside the mainstream, I've played most of the roles one can play and holy god I'm sick of listening to you act as if you've had 1% of the success the people you criticize have had. How about you grant that I might know what I'm talking about, given that sports content has been my career, without me having to make a business case to someone with no standing to ask for one?

Fangraphs, as far as I can tell, is financed by a rich grandpa. Primer/BTF/Newsstand/Brand of the Day isn't a business in any real sense of the word, it's r.s.b ported to the Web and stripped of its spark. That you would make these comparisons shows just how little you understand of Prospectus, how little you've ever understood.

Stick to being an academic, Thomas. Stick to your sycophant-laden fora and your above-it-all mien. Stop jumping in here and cheap-shotting a business that you've never comprehended on your best day.
Dan Szymborski Posted: July 08, 2010 at 07:51 PM | 799 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 4 of 8 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > 
   301. CrosbyBird Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:41 PM (#3583962)
I'm on record as not enjoying the shutdown policy, which seems to me to limit the value of this site as a commentary on culture overall as it relates to baseball – one of the things that has distinguished Primer from a run-of-the-mill baseball board.

I'm also opposed to thread shutdown. I understand the desire to make the website more universal, and the heated nature of political debate can drive users away, some of whom might actually have worthwhile contributions to make to baseball discussion.

Even acknowledging that concern, it would be gentler to an established user base, with many folks that actually like the political discussions, to give an in-thread warning and to pinpoint the particular posts that are causing the problems. If a particular user tends to be a thread-killer, then it would be more fair to address the problem with that user, and not with the scorched-earth policy of banishing the thread to a place where it dies a quick death. Frankly, thread closure/movement is about 10% of the problem, and the way in which it is done is about 90% of the problem.

If the powers that be established certain clear ground rules about what causes a thread to be moved, offered warnings so that threads could fix themselves, and limited the "punishment" to individual users, then there would be far fewer thread closures.

It's certainly the prerogative of site management to act however they wish, but it's not a very nice way to deal with the overwhelming majority of established users that make an effort to be good citizens. Not that any one user should dictate policy, but I think that when multiple people who have posted regularly for the past ten years are complaining about something, people who make a significant effort to be good BBTF citizens, it's disappointing when management simply ignores their concerns.
   302. BFFB Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:47 PM (#3583973)
Honestly, if you just give it a try for a week or so, you'll find it's a pretty good interface. The Quote button is a boon to discussion, and makes skipping over posts you don't care about much easier.


I never look there because of 25% time difference and 75% nested quotes and annoying white space which take so long to scroll by you get cramp in your finger. Just find it largely unreadable and I have racked up a multiple thousands of posts on other forums.
   303. villageidiom Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:49 PM (#3583976)
Dan, are you able to edit comments? If so, you can edit them to be blank.
Then he'd have to edit the offending post plus the subsequent dozens quoting it. Not that it can't be done (if editing can be done) but it's a pain.
   304. McCoy Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:49 PM (#3583977)
I think the problem is that the powers that be don't seem to be working from the same page or even the same book. There are dozens if not more links that get posted every week that when you simply look at the title and the blurb you just know there is going to be a political brouhaha going on in the thread or something off topic. So why does this stuff keep getting linked here? It is like you are offering us a product and then are shocked when we actually like this product so you take it away from us but then offer it back to us again and then do it all over again and again and again. Make up your minds and be consistent. If you don't want political threads then stop linking clearly political threads to BTF.
   305. villageidiom Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:51 PM (#3583980)
Frankly, thread closure/movement is about 10% of the problem, and the way in which it is done is about 90% of the problem.
For you. For site admins, I imagine the majority of the problem isn't either of those.
   306. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:51 PM (#3583981)
If you click on a random Lounge page, looking at the "joined" dates on the left gives you an idea about how often there's turnover and new voices there. I'll go out on a limb and say that the average date is in 2004, and some of the newer dates are just "old" posters reregistering to start a new identity. I love these folk, and to a great extent the company is what keeps me coming back, but as people leave, they're not being replaced. Whether that's because newbies can't stand the interface or can't keep up with the content is in your eyes, not mine. But it's an easily verifiable fact, and I don't think an Internet community of (at least) six-year vets is sustainable (many of these posters were at the site for a lot longer than that, but had to register back in 2004).
   307. McCoy Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:52 PM (#3583982)
I think the quote function in the forum is absolutely horrible when compared to virtually all other forums I have ever used.
   308. BFFB Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:55 PM (#3583985)
I think the quote function in the forum is absolutely horrible when compared to virtually all other forums I have ever used.

ble.
Because it doesn't have a cut off on the number of nested quotes. Proboards, for example, will only allow you two nested quotes before it starts chopping off the earliest one. Makes everything much more readable and prevents finger cramp.
   309. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:56 PM (#3583990)
It takes about 3 seconds if not less to clip off nested quotes.
   310. McCoy Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:59 PM (#3583995)
You don't even have to click on a random lounge page to see that you can simply go to the member list page and the first 50 names that appear have join dates within 6 months of each other while I think two names appear on the list from outside of 2004. Plus almost all of them are still posting. Go to 100 and I think 5 names outside of 2004 join the list. The 100 to 200 member area is when you start to see lots of non 2004 members but these posters have extremely low post counts. Basically the forum is an insider's club for a bunch of posters that were on Primer before registration and the forum has failed to draw in any new blood.
   311. McCoy Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:00 PM (#3583998)
It takes about 3 seconds if not less to clip off nested quotes.

Then you guys should do that.
   312. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:04 PM (#3584004)
We should but we don't. But hey if you don't want to hang with us because of a silly formatting issue, well I guess that is cool.
   313. BWV 1129 Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:10 PM (#3584015)
But hey if you don't want to hang with us because of a silly formatting issue, well I guess that is cool.

The real reason they don't want to hang with us is because you smell.
   314. UCCF Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:13 PM (#3584023)
Why did you abandon the lounge?

Combination of not liking the new format, and getting busy with having a job again. I've cut way back on all of my Internet time in the last couple of years as they force me to do work during work hours. Where are all these playboy millionaire jobs I keep hearing about?

Actually, I wouldn't have shared that information if you hadn't responded in kind when GGC and I were lamenting (or was it celebrating, I can't recall) your apparent demise in a previous thread.

As for the lounge, I occasionally post over there. But I'd rather it didn't exist and the guys who post exclusively or mostly over there still posted here, making for a more rich, full-bodied Primer community.


(celebrating I'm sure)

Yes, it's not really a secret. I never quite got over the bitter taste that some of the decisions made here left for me (for example, calling the Lounge the worst thing in the world and exiling it to the Forums, while permitting the ########## between the kevinists and the anti-kevinists to run for 1000s of off-topic posts; or the whole "game chatters are evil" era where we had to deal with that crappy chat system). And I abandoned the UCCF handle because it reached the point a few years ago where, whenever I popped my head into a thread, someone would invariably call me a racist. And that wasn't a lot of fun.

Losing the Lounge and the big Chatter crowds, plus the general disintegration of the tone of the threads, made me want to step back. I stopped coming here completely for about 9 months, and then started back under a different name without really posting much. I use the site mostly just to catch the baseball news - it's still my favorite source to catch headlines and breaking news. I'm not really in the camp of people who miss the pre-registration Primer, but I am in the camp of people who miss the pre-Forums Primer. That period in 2004-2005 was the golden era (at least to me).
   315. Morty Causa Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:14 PM (#3584024)
All forms, genres, media, disciplines, ideologies, and theories have a decadent phase, whether it is (or will be) the sonnet, verse drama, Christianity (Judaism, Buddhism, others), Theism, Deism, Sexed-up Pantheism, Communism, Americanism, screwball comedy films, the Broadway musical, CGI, and Rock And/Or Roll. Let's call it Algernon Swinburne Certainty Principle. Has it happened yet to sabermetrics or this sort of site?
   316. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:15 PM (#3584027)
You don't even have to click on a random lounge page to see that you can simply go to the member list page and the first 50 names that appear have join dates within 6 months of each other while I think two names appear on the list from outside of 2004.


The problem with looking at it this way is that the only real way to get into the top fifty posters or so is to accumumlate the counting stats over time. You'd absolutely expect veterans who are still active posters to be on that page. I wanted to point out that in today's Lounge, greybeards are driving virtually all of the conversation.
   317. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:21 PM (#3584034)
I think that "prisoner of reputation" is the biggest single problem we have as a community. UCCF should never have felt shame about his handle and the associations people had with it. In my opinion (and I try hard to live up to this personally), bringing up old comments from anyone is out of bounds. This doesn't happen here too much, but I think that bringing up quotes from a Game Chatter is particularly horrible; stuff said in the competitive heat of an uncensored stream-of-consciousness forum like that should never be held against a person.
   318. McCoy Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:23 PM (#3584036)
The problem with looking at it this way is that the only real way to get into the top fifty posters or so is to accumumlate the counting stats over time. You'd absolutely expect veterans who are still active posters to be on that page. I wanted to point out that in today's Lounge, greybeards are driving virtually all of the conversation.

I understand the potential problem which is why I mentioned that when you get to 100-200 you see a lot more post 2004 posters but they have incredibly small post counts. Something like 140 to 200 are all under 100 posts. Plus it also shows last visit for these posters and again the vasy majority of the old timers visit daily.
   319. Lassus Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:29 PM (#3584043)
The Score Bard was Ken Arneson? Well I'll be damned.

As long as we're talking about the things we miss, I really miss the Baseball Toaster.

But I miss nothing as much as bat-girl.
   320. base ball chick Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:30 PM (#3584049)
true dat most loungers are old timers

and eamus
so HAPPY to hear from you boy!!!!! and sorry that they are making you, like you know, like work. you should be a lawyer. and i remember all that idiotic talk bout youknowwhat. hope you were successful in losing some of that weight you were trying to lose last i remember

and yeh i know what you mean about 04-05 being the golden era - although i did like the place back when tango and mgl used to post here a lot. i often wonder what happened to all the guys i used to chat with a lot back then
   321. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:35 PM (#3584062)
Nowadays there's no great rivalry and the only people making sabermetric advances are the coding monkeys that can make heads and tails out of the PitchFX databases.


I would like to learn more about PitchFX, but the guys who write about it seem to be writing for a limited audience. Studes used to do "Ten Things I didn't Know" articles. I'd love one on PitchFX. I sorta did one for myself a year and a half ago, but I'm sure a lot of new #### has come to light since then.
   322. BWV 1129 Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:35 PM (#3584065)
post left blank
   323. CrosbyBird Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:49 PM (#3584076)
It takes about 3 seconds if not less to clip off nested quotes.

It's not just the number of nested quotes, but the length. If you look at most threads on the main site, having quotes that are more characters than the responses are relatively rare. In the lounge, it's common to have the quotes dwarf the new content. In the 7/9/10 Lounge, posts #7 and #8 are great examples. It takes a full screen to add two new sentences of content.

Quoting a single line of text takes up three lines of text on the forums, and that's not even half of the space a post takes up. CW's screenname takes up 4 lines of space from just the header, and that's every single time he posts.

The most outrageous example I can find of the difference between the forum and the main site is to compare:

1) Post #322 of this thread, which has one line of text, and with headers and everything, takes up three lines of space (one line of header, text, blank line)

to

2) Post #12 in that lounge, which has one line of text and takes up about seven lines of text (half a line of whitespace, one line of header, half a line of whitespace, four lines within the post itself because of the left-margin information, a blank line at the end).

That's just a ridiculous amount of extra overhead for a one-line post. And there's no nested quotes or long screen name issues to extend the length. That's the bare minumum.
   324. BWV 1129 Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:50 PM (#3584077)
I like the extra space. It is like we are pioneers in the wilderness, spreading our arms and oats and breathing deeply.

Over here, I feel like I am in a prison, cramped, hungry, and shirtless.
   325. base ball chick Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:51 PM (#3584078)
ggc

i know what u mean

i can think of like 10 things i would LIKE to know using pitchfx but i have absolutely NO idea how to do stuff like that. and lots of the stuff i read about it is so - uh, computer stuff i don't understand - heavy i get stuck

also trouble with pitchfx is that they sometimes post the wrong kind of pitch thrown. for example, wandy rodriguez doesn't throw a sinker or slider, and i've seen both kinds of pitches posted when he throws
   326. bads85 Posted: July 09, 2010 at 10:54 PM (#3584083)
>>>>I think their business, like most money-making-sabermetric-oriented sites, is to cater to fantasy players.<<<<

I love it when a fish shows up at my fantasy baseball draft with the BP Annual.
   327. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 09, 2010 at 11:18 PM (#3584122)
I really enjoy BBTF. The "Steroid Wars" drove off a lot of great posters.

Jim could charge the denizens of the Lounge "extra" if the population assessments are accurate. There must be added expense to provide an area for a small subset of posters.
   328. base ball chick Posted: July 09, 2010 at 11:27 PM (#3584134)
the steroid wars DID drive off a lot of great posters

i miss eric enders. and a few others along with all the guys who now only post in the lounge like MUG.

as for the lounge - instead of the forum thingy, hows about it is only visible to logged in posters and is on hot topics. sort of like how jim made it so you can only see poster's info if logged in?

- as for a topless lounge
well alex darling boy
not sure if you want to be lookin at a whole lot of shirtless primates
but i WILL agree to look at bernal
but only if he shaves of that ICKY chin hair
   329. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: July 09, 2010 at 11:30 PM (#3584140)
Jim could charge the denizens of the Lounge "extra" if the population assessments are accurate. There must be added expense to provide an area for a small subset of posters.

The other way to look at it is that having a set of posters who are extremely dedicated to the site and whose usage patterns are so sticky, is an asset that can be monetized in many other ways.

We were moved to the forums supposedly because it was much cheaper to host the lounge there than on the blogging software (which makes sense, since it's nothing like a blog). The rest of the site continues to run on the blogging software, whether or not it actually works like a blog.
   330. Chris Dial Posted: July 09, 2010 at 11:43 PM (#3584167)
I think that "prisoner of reputation" is the biggest single problem we have as a community.
This a great point.

It starts on Page 1 of this thread when someone mentions Dave Cameron. He's a good guy.
   331. Starlin of the Slipstream (TRHN) Posted: July 09, 2010 at 11:51 PM (#3584184)
But as near as I can tell, I've been on Primer for at least 10 years now. My adult life has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But Baseball Primer has marked the time.


Well put. This describes my experience with Primer. Since I first logged onto Baseball Primer, I've worked as a delivery driver, a cook at Ruby Tuesday, a night shift pudding packer at a pudding factory, front desk at a motel, sandwich artist at Panera, philosophy instructor at community college, sandwich artist at Quizno's, intern for an attorney and finally a legal administrator for Social Security. I've lived in 8 different apartments (and served a stint in my parent's basement). I've had had three long term relationships, including an engagement, in that time.
   332. RJ in TO Posted: July 09, 2010 at 11:58 PM (#3584193)
a night shift pudding packer at a pudding factory

I really hope this isn't a euphemism.
   333. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: July 10, 2010 at 12:04 AM (#3584204)
I've had had three long term relationships, including an engagement, in that time.

Harmony?

Ryan, you're right about Bench. I found the pertinent pages in the NBJHA.
   334. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: July 10, 2010 at 12:20 AM (#3584231)
bbc, what I'm intererted in is whether or not we've learned some new stuff about pitchers. For instance velocity peaks at 29.
   335. villageidiom Posted: July 10, 2010 at 12:44 AM (#3584276)
a night shift pudding packer at a pudding factory

I really hope this isn't a euphemism.
He should change his handle to "Night Shift Pudding Packer".
   336. McCoy Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:02 AM (#3584302)
a night shift pudding packer at a pudding factory

Isn't that redundant? Is there pudding packing going on in other places besides a pudding factory?

But if we are going to do the timeline of our life with the one constant being BTF. . . .

Sous Chef, Chef de Cuisine, GM, student/server/banquet cook, F+B Manager. 4 different states, 8 different places of residents, 6 different cars, fell out of an engagement, avoided an engagement, and I am currently trying to move on to a new job.
   337. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:14 AM (#3584334)
Oddly enough I have only had 3 different jobs with 2 companies since 2001 but I am the poster boy for changing jobs often.
   338. Super Creepy Derek Lowe (GGC) Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:17 AM (#3584339)
I've had the same job almost my whole tenure here.
   339. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:18 AM (#3584341)
I got here in 2003. Same job, same woman.
   340. BWV 1129 Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:23 AM (#3584354)
Jim could charge the denizens of the Lounge "extra" if the population assessments are accurate. There must be added expense to provide an area for a small subset of posters.

Heh. The only reason we're in that area is because we got sent there! We didn't land on the forums, the forums landed on us!
   341. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:38 AM (#3584379)
It starts on Page 1 of this thread when someone mentions Dave Cameron. He's a good guy.
Maybe in person. Hell, Dial, I even liked you face to face. But Cameron has horrible judgment, at least when it comes to his own team.
   342. BWV 1129 Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:45 AM (#3584398)
I am perfectly willing to believe that Cameron (or Sheehan) is a good guy. But that doesn't mean that comes across in what he writes. But that's okay -- I probably come off as less of a jerk than I really am, so I guess it all evens out.
   343.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:49 AM (#3584402)
Actually closing an offending comment is next to impossible until our next database revamp. Closing a comment at the moment actually takes the entire site offline


As a web developer, I find this the most ridiculous part of this thread.
   344. Chris Dial Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:54 AM (#3584416)
But Cameron has horrible judgment, at least when it comes to his own team
But really, who doesn't?
   345.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:05 AM (#3584451)
That's insane. How big is the comments table?
   346. base ball chick Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:11 AM (#3584467)
Chris Dial Posted: July 09, 2010 at 09:54 PM (#3584416)

But Cameron has horrible judgment, at least when it comes to his own team

But really, who doesn't?


me
i can spell teh sukc many different ways

and i got here in 02/03
same Husband
only 1 Dog the same - barry lamar
same lack of steady paid job
blog new in 04 - new blog NAME in 09
   347. Lassus Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:14 AM (#3584474)
...like looking up all the posts of somebody.

That's insane. How big is the comments table?


Whoever you are, if you could help them make this possible for us, I would love that.
   348. Shredder Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:17 AM (#3584482)
But really, who doesn't?
Why, me, of course.
   349. Ron J Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:21 AM (#3584485)
#360 Took some time though. Wasn't hard to find optimists as recently as 2000.

I don't think it was possible to mis-evaluate the 2001 or 2002 team.
   350. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:28 AM (#3584493)
I think the problem is that the powers that be don't seem to be working from the same page or even the same book. There are dozens if not more links that get posted every week that when you simply look at the title and the blurb you just know there is going to be a political brouhaha going on in the thread or something off topic. So why does this stuff keep getting linked here? It is like you are offering us a product and then are shocked when we actually like this product so you take it away from us but then offer it back to us again and then do it all over again and again and again. Make up your minds and be consistent. If you don't want political threads then stop linking clearly political threads to BTF.

You owe me a coke for that one, McCoy. I've made that same point many times, including right at the top of this page. The combo of Repoz and Szym remind me of those beer ads that show a bunch of party heartying half naked 19 year olds, with a "drink responsibly" tag at the end.
   351. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:29 AM (#3584494)
I'm actually quite cuddly in person.
   352. base ball chick Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:39 AM (#3584505)
i can't decide it mrs sam H is one of those laid back chicks who sez uhhunh and yesdear and isn'tthatinteresting when sam talkin bout neck stabbing one of the kazillions of people who happened to piss him off that particular second

-sam h - GRRRRRRRR bill hohn needs a neck stabbing !!!!!!! KILL!!!! MUTILATE!!!! STABBBBBB!!!!!
- mrs sam - that's nice dear

or if she is an excitable grrrl and does that talk bout neck stabbing at home and sam is doing all the yeh, hunh whaaa, yeh baby whers mah dinner talktalktalk
   353. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:45 AM (#3584508)
It bears mentioning that Bill Hohn's crew have the Braves-Mets series this weekend, and Hohn has the plate for tomorrow afternoon's nationally televised Fox game. I'm putting the odds of Hohn asshattery at 60/40.

And the homeplate ump tonight was giving R.A. Dickey obscene calls.
   354.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:49 AM (#3584510)

Whoever you are, if you could help them make this possible for us, I would love that.


And I would love to help. But doubt it would happen.
   355. base ball chick Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:50 AM (#3584511)
why such low odds?

i mean, think of the odds that if you hang a slider to uncle albert at the Box that he will send it ovah the trax.

now THAT is the odds that bill hohn will provide plenty of asshatteryness when he umps braves games
   356. Srul Itza Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:55 AM (#3584516)
Dear lord, I cannot accurately remember when I migrated from the Rob Neyer Message Board. I know I visited both for a while, and I was posting here in 2001, but beyond that I'm not sure.

Since 2001 I have had the same wife, the same dog, changed firms once and have moved from a rented townhouse to an heavily mortgaged condo.
   357. PerroX Posted: July 10, 2010 at 03:20 AM (#3584526)
not sure if you want to be lookin at a whole lot of shirtless primates

For me - I'm too sexy for my shirt.

Since 2001, a temp job as a night stocker, 7+ years in the same city at the same job, up from the line to supervisor. Great job, crappy workplace, unbeatable hours/pay. Seperated/divorced for the better, no more insane wife, just wild and crazy girlfriends and great daughters.

I like my life. Especially in the summer.
   358. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: July 10, 2010 at 03:33 AM (#3584536)
Luckily, the Magic: The Gathering threads have decreased in frequency somewhat in the Forums. We're down to four a day.
   359. PerroX Posted: July 10, 2010 at 03:51 AM (#3584548)
I have a dog. Deefer. D for devil. Hogs the bed and chases squirrels.

Barry Lamar was already taken.
   360. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: July 10, 2010 at 04:56 AM (#3584586)
Giambi was before Petco, but it was also like 700 posts, while Petco was over 2,000. And Giambi, while joke laden, was still ostensibly about baseball. Petco devolved from the very start.


Jumping in late to say that the Giambi thread was like Babe Ruth. No threads ever got more than a hundred or so posts before that. Threads were quick in-and-out for the most part. Then, Giambi got traded, and everyone had something to say. Sure, it devolved into "how long can we make this?", but that was because no thread had ever come close. Ruth figured out that you could swing for homers. Soon everyone did it. Giambi-Mabry showed that it was possible. Sure, it got passed eventually, but it was first. Giambi-Mabry is Ruth. Petco is Aaron.
   361. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: July 10, 2010 at 04:59 AM (#3584588)
Dear lord, I cannot accurately remember when I migrated from the Rob Neyer Message Board. I know I visited both for a while, and I was posting here in 2001, but beyond that I'm not sure.

I came about the same time. I remember that your handle on Neyer had no spaces and I couldn't actually figure out what your name was. I had never (and still haven't) met anyone with the first name of Srul or the last name of Itza, and I couldn't tell the difference between lowercase "l" and uppercase "I" on that board.
   362. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: July 10, 2010 at 05:38 AM (#3584597)
I'm not really in the camp of people who miss the pre-registration Primer, but I am in the camp of people who miss the pre-Forums Primer. That period in 2004-2005 was the golden era (at least to me).


I just can't post in the new lounge -I hate the forums and also maybe its facebook - who knows?

I REALLY miss the large old chatter days - I've even migrated to SOSH to chatter now - not the same but still fun.

In any case I have made some really good friends from this website who I cherish

That's a good thing right??

Baseball Prospectus - meh
   363.     Hey Gurl Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:02 AM (#3584604)
I don't think it ever even occurred to me that Srul Itza was a real name. Awesome.
   364. Walt Davis Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:38 AM (#3584614)
The combo of Repoz and Szym remind me of those beer ads that show a bunch of party heartying half naked 19 year olds

You have a strange fantasy life Andy ... but I think we suspected that.

I shudder to think when I got here. Still I'm pretty sure I can say it's 3 jobs, 2 apartments, two houses, a few but not enough girlfriends, 120 pounds, one Bartman, one move halfway around the world.
   365. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:35 AM (#3584626)
one move halfway around the world.


How is NZ mate??

Let me know if you ever come over to Oz for a trip - All Blacks tonight!!!

(When I watch rugby, I prefer watching the All Blacks for than Australia - I know - disloyal)
   366. BFFB Posted: July 10, 2010 at 10:56 AM (#3584632)
While I've been here: Undergrad->Postgrad->Job->UK->Italy->UK->Switzerland->UK

So that's three countries 8 moves and one job.
   367. Chris Dial Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:31 PM (#3584653)
And the homeplate ump tonight was giving R.A. Dickey obscene calls.
You should have seen what the Braves relievers were getting.
   368. BDC Posted: July 10, 2010 at 01:48 PM (#3584657)
Eight years, six dwellings in two far-apart states, same job though. In fact, Primer still seems pretty new to me. I have have summer-conferenced with the same professional organization since 1994 and worked with many of my colleagues since 1988, when Primer was presumably being graven on stone tablets and transmitted via carrier pelican.
   369. Dan Evensen Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:33 PM (#3584670)
As mentioned above, I started coming here when I was in high school. Here's my timeline:

High School -> Undergrad -> Germany -> Undergrad -> China -> Undergrad -> China (after graduation) -> Crappy job at cell phone company -> DC (pending)

I've been to two countries (technically 4 -- I was in Vienna for a few months, and spent a little bit of time visiting my in-laws in Taiwan). I got married during my time here, graduated from high school and college, and even completed a degreeless "Chinese Flagship" program. We've got an 11 month old son now, and I still come to this website. I'm not sure how many dwellings it's been -- I'd guess over 10. I'm just happy that the CCP has yet to block BBTF, especially since the chances that we're going back are pretty good.

Luckily, the Magic: The Gathering threads have decreased in frequency somewhat in the Forums. We're down to four a day.

I'll make sure to avoid them. I haven't cared about MTG since I was in 9th grade (doesn't feel like it was too long ago, but it has been 11 years). My black / white discard / Vampire / Angel deck was good enough that my friends wouldn't play against me, but not good enough to play against people with actual power cards. I sold all my cards in 10th grade for something like $80.

i miss eric enders.

He's not here anymore? I bought his World Series book back in 2005.

Seems that the steroid wars did to BBTF what Dayne Myers did to DMB.
   370. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 10, 2010 at 02:44 PM (#3584671)
You should have seen what the Braves relievers were getting.


We call those "outs." Jeff Francoeur calls them "my lifeblood."
   371. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 10, 2010 at 03:28 PM (#3584704)
The "Steroid Wars" drove off a lot of great posters.


I know I don't qualify as a "great poster" -- more like "superfluous jerk" -- but they drove me off for a long time. I guess I used to bum around Baseball Toaster a lot, that took up some of the time. Now that I come here more often, for some reason I find that my tolerance for a certain brand of ########### that goes on around here is way lower than it used to be, and I end up being more of a grump than I think I am in real life. It's like I can't help myself. #### just gets under my skin in a way it didn't used to.

I know I'm not the only person that has effectively been cut off from a huge part of the site, by nature of a terrible user interface.


Yeah, onceago I was a dedicated lounger, but those forums are teh suxor. I just can't look at them, and though I registered there I've never really posted much. It does explain where a lot of people I used to like disappeared to, I guess. I've also experienced the "late-to-the-party" effect that someone described upthread.

It isn't really baseball-related, but this place has taught me a great deal about constructing an argument and not wading into a discussion unless I have a few facts at hand.


Me, too. It's been a big factor in the development of my critical-thinking abilities, and has helped turn me into a fairly sharp debater, when I can be bothered. Then again, it's also taught me a lot about being called a moron by people who are too dim to understand what I'm talking about, as well.

I've been at Primer, with some breaks, since I was a senior in college. I've worked in bookstores, at newspapers, high schools, from a home office, and lived in Oregon, Washington, DC, northern and southern California, and New York since then. Weird. Eight years of bullshitting about baseball.
   372. Baldrick Posted: July 10, 2010 at 04:15 PM (#3584737)
I had a 6-9 month break from Primer during the height of the steroid wars. Not entirely because of that, but it certainly contributed.

I've been around since 2000/2001 but have never really been an active poster. In that time, I've moved from college to a series of similar jobs in different locations, to grad school.

Geographic movement: Washington state, Michigan, Boston, New Hampshire, Santa Cruz, San Jose.

I really REALLY miss the chatters. That's the biggest loss of the new incarnation of Primer in my opinion. I occasionally came to the lounges back in the 04/05 period but never really missed them when they were gone.
   373. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 10, 2010 at 04:51 PM (#3584751)
I know I'm not the only person that has effectively been cut off from a huge part of the site, by nature of a terrible user interface.



Yeah, onceago I was a dedicated lounger, but those forums are teh suxor. I just can't look at them, and though I registered there I've never really posted much. It does explain where a lot of people I used to like disappeared to, I guess. I've also experienced the "late-to-the-party" effect that someone described upthread.


I feel this way too. It seems like there are 2 communities here which rarely mix. I've been here since well before registration, and there's some guys with more posts than me who I have never heard of (maybe they are familiar posters who have changed their handles), and others who I haven't seen here for years or others who I see only rarely, but have 10-20 thousand posts.
   374. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 10, 2010 at 05:25 PM (#3584773)
I feel this way too. It seems like there are 2 communities here which rarely mix.

IMO the real split is between those who want to learn something along with voicing their opinions, and those who just want to vent for quasi-theological reasons. You can usually tell the latter group by one simple trait they all share: They'll never, ever concede even the slightest point. If they agree with 90% of what you write on any given post, they'll ignore that 90% and jump all over the 10% that they disagree with. It comes down to wanting to pick an argument just for the sake of picking an argument, and after a while it gets pretty old and stale.
   375. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 10, 2010 at 05:29 PM (#3584775)
I've been at Primer since before it existed. I don't do the lounges because of the user interface. I loved the Chatters, and have enjoyed them the last couple of nights for the Braves/Phillies/Mets/Reds series. I have no idea why they "went away" but I noticed that they get #### for traffic any more.

Since 2000-01 I've worked three jobs, bought a house and done three month remote stints in three countries.
   376. McCoy Posted: July 10, 2010 at 05:34 PM (#3584780)
So are you part of the 90% or the 10%?
   377. PreservedFish Posted: July 10, 2010 at 05:43 PM (#3584789)
I have no idea why they "went away" but I noticed that they get #### for traffic any more.


The chatters are basically impossible to access unless you already know that they are there. There is zero chance of any new people ever wandering into them.
   378. BDC Posted: July 10, 2010 at 05:57 PM (#3584800)
The last time I was in a Lounge was when I woke up one morning wondering what instrumental singles had ever been #1 on the pop charts. I figured the Lounge would know and indeed within a few pages I had dozens of replies and everyone was friendly as hell. But I don't often even read the Lounge; though I am interested in many aspects of popular culture, I am pretty much interested in 2/3 to 3/4 of Mainland threads, but rarely in what's being discussed in a Lounge on a given day; the conversation is too randomly-generated for my tastes.
   379. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:09 PM (#3584809)
I find the withering of the chatters to be an incredible loss. I loved having the chatters for Yankees games back in 2003, 2004, 2005.

I can't imagine why they were killed, either. They actually stayed fairly on-topic about baseball most of the time, certainly more-so than a typical newsblog thread.
   380. UCCF Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:17 PM (#3584811)
I can't imagine why they were killed, either. They actually stayed fairly on-topic about baseball most of the time, certainly more-so than a typical newsblog thread.

I believe they were too popular - the constant refreshing and reloading of pages was a drag on the site's resources. That was why they tried that ill-fated switch to the chat system that essentially killed the chatters for good.

Those Cub chatters in 2003-2005 were crazy. 500+ posts on a weekday afternoon. There were often 100+ posts before the game even started. That last week of 2004, when the team was collapsing, we suffered through every agonizing Dusty-driven moment of it together.
   381. Dan Evensen Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:23 PM (#3584816)
IMO the real split is between those who want to learn something along with voicing their opinions, and those who just want to vent for quasi-theological reasons. You can usually tell the latter group by one simple trait they all share: They'll never, ever concede even the slightest point. If they agree with 90% of what you write on any given post, they'll ignore that 90% and jump all over the 10% that they disagree with. It comes down to wanting to pick an argument just for the sake of picking an argument, and after a while it gets pretty old and stale.

Yep, that pretty much sums up the Petco thread.

I find the withering of the chatters to be an incredible loss.

Me, too. I'll never forget the chatters during the latest WBC, and those weren't even close to as popular as the ones referred to on here. Those ones were important to me, though, since we were living in Qingdao at the time and I had nobody to talk about baseball with.

At least the site can handle normal threads now. It wasn't that long ago that you'd have to wait about 5 minutes after hitting "submit," and you'd get people double and triple posting like it was going out of style.

I am sorry that I missed those 2003-2005 Cubs chatters, though. I was in Germany at the time, on a brief Primer sabbatical.
   382. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:43 PM (#3584838)
The last time I was in a Lounge was when I woke up one morning wondering what instrumental singles had ever been #1 on the pop charts.


I wrote about that very subject a little while ago.
   383. BDC Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:49 PM (#3584844)
Great stuff, Tom! Of course later today I will be cursing you for opening up a can of earworms on me :-D
   384. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 10, 2010 at 06:58 PM (#3584858)
I think some of this speaks to the lack of new posters. The regulars are developing life obligations and allocating 3 hours to a Chatter is not easy. I have done solo Chatters prefer NTN as a counterpoint

I do not think the site is depressing folks joining. I see new posters but many bring the ugly habits of a Foxsports comments section
   385. Misirlou was a Buddhist prodigy Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:04 PM (#3584871)
I wrote about that very subject a little while ago.


Cool. I thought Hocus Pocus made it, but according to Wiki they made it only to 8.

or maybe they don't count, what with the "yodododay yodododay yodododay yodododay yodododay yodododay bop bah" lyrics

edit: According to lyrics time, the lyrics are

Ôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorô poPÔ
Yôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorô
poPÔ

Aaaah aaah aaah aaah
Uuuh oooh oooh ooooooooh

Ôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorô poPÔ
Yôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorô
BoumPÔ

Aaaah aaah aaah aaah
Uuuh oooh oooh ooooooooh

Tatrrrepôtetretrepiecôã-é-é-ô-hã-hén-Hén
Ôi trégueregué-dôi detêro deguedô
A tataro teguereguedaw
Teguereguedêro dêdow Ô-Éhr-Ôhr-Êhr-Êhr-Áhr-Ó
Hé Hã He How

Ãi erêrãi rãrãrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorô poPÔ
Yôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorôm
pomPÔ

Aaaah aaah aaah aaah
Uuuh oooh oooh ooooooooh

Ôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi rôrôrôi ohrorô poPÔ
Yôi orôrôi rôrôrôi rô

Aaaah aaah aaah aaah
Uuuh oooh oooh ooooooooh

UaaahuHahaha... Eee hi hi hááá
   386. fra paolo Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:17 PM (#3584884)
The only thing I think is wrong about Baseball Primer is the name. The move to BBTF was the only stupid decision ever taken around here. There's still lots of good stuff, many interesting and informative posters and I'm all in favour of bad-tempered threads or arguments that go nowhere being shut down. Nowadays I use the ignore function liberally, and it has truly improved my Primer Experience.

Sometimes I don't post so much, but that's usually because I'm busy with work. (Also, being on GMT/BST five hours ahead didn't always help.)

Been here regularly since 2002, just a couple of weeks before Giambi-Mabry, two handles, bazillion jobs (ah, the lot of the freelance), two houses and three flats, from London, England, to Waterloo, Ontario (via Kitchener).
   387. Morty Causa Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:33 PM (#3584905)
"Theeeeeme...from a summer place. From a suuuuuummer plaaace. It's the theme. From a Summer Place. It's the theeeeme..."

I would have thought Herb Alpert would have had more than one number one. And no Al Hirt. And Green Onions didn't make number one. Or Washington Square. Or Cast My Faith to the Wind. Or the dueling banjo thing from Deliverance.
   388. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:39 PM (#3584913)
I would have thought Herb Alpert would have had more than one number one.


As a commenter pointed out, I somehow missed "The Rise," which went to No. 1 in 1979. So Herb Alpert has had two Number One hits, the other being "This Guy's in Love With You," which of course isn't an instrumental.
   389. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:43 PM (#3584920)
Dear lord, I cannot accurately remember when I migrated from the Rob Neyer Message Board. I know I visited both for a while, and I was posting here in 2001, but beyond that I'm not sure.

Since 2001 I have had the same wife, the same dog, changed firms once and have moved from a rented townhouse to an heavily mortgaged condo.
I've never been on the Rob Neyer Message Board. I moved here straight from r.s.b., although I stubbornly held on to r.s.b. for as long as possible. I was here almost from the beginning -- 2000/2001, whenever it was, exactly, that this thing appeared. (I have memories of doing Primer in law school, but that ended by May 2000 so it seems sort of unlikely.)

Anyway, same wife, same house (but third mortgage -- er, that's not all at the same time), fifth job (although four of those are basically iterations of the same firm), and one new child.
   390. Morty Causa Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:45 PM (#3584927)
As a commenter pointed out, I somehow missed "The Rise," which went to No. 1 in 1979. So Herb Alpert has had two Number One hits, the other being "This Guy's in Love With You," which of course isn't an instrumental.


Yeah, thanks, but I was thinking of his early '60's, definitely instrumental, stuff. Not that I'm a big fan, but he sure seemed everywhere. I had totally forgotten about the atrocious "This Guy's in Love With You."
   391. Morty Causa Posted: July 10, 2010 at 07:50 PM (#3584934)
And Classical Gas only topped at #2. It's not only good to be number one, it's hard.
   392. BDC Posted: July 10, 2010 at 08:03 PM (#3584950)
They predate the era Tom is writing about, but probably the two most successful instrumental compositions since the invention of radio were Leroy Anderson's "Syncopated Clock" (which was a #1 by some measures in the late 1940s) and "Sleigh Ride." Now try getting those out of your head this weekend.
   393. CrosbyBird Posted: July 10, 2010 at 10:40 PM (#3585212)
There's still lots of good stuff, many interesting and informative posters and I'm all in favour of bad-tempered threads or arguments that go nowhere being shut down.

What about threads where a few people are going nowhere, and a few people are having a legitimate conversation? Because those are the threads that get killed. You're trimming the meat with the fat.

Nowadays I use the ignore function liberally, and it has truly improved my Primer Experience.

I never use ignore, but it strikes me as a perfect way to deal with the sorts of posts that people complain about. If you don't like a particular poster, then use the ignore feature, a personal option, as opposed to shutting down a thread. It's not like you have to read every thread on hot topics.

Thread closings contribute to the phenomenon of four topics with the same discussion, but what would be really good is if "extension" articles were added to the top of the current thread. We didn't need a "Yankees talking to Cliff Lee" thread and a separate "Yankees/Cliff Lee talks dead" thread. (Not that those were egregious examples, but I've seen four or five McGwire HOF threads simultaneously on the Hot Topics bar.)

EDIT: I went directly from the Mets newgroup to Primer. I was here under my real name for a while, I think (pre-registration).
   394. SoSH U at work Posted: July 10, 2010 at 10:53 PM (#3585230)
Like many others, migrated from the Neyer board, somewhere near the end of 01, start of 02. Had a couple different handles, including my name, before sticking with SoSH sometime around registration.

Since then, same wife, one bonus kid and a couple jobs. And I don't think I've taken any substantial time off from the site, though I think my posting has steadily increased in volume over time.

I don't miss pre-reg primer, though I do miss the days of heavy game chatter and regret the loss of several regulars to the Lounge. And I want the Dugout back dammit. Dag shouldn't be posting his trivia questions in the Lounge. And Lord knows that Tiboreau is probably bursting without an outlet for his tales from the old PCL.
   395. Chris Dial Posted: July 10, 2010 at 11:05 PM (#3585241)
I loved the Chatters, and have enjoyed them the last couple of nights for the Braves/Phillies/Mets/Reds series. I have no idea why they "went away" but I noticed that they get #### for traffic any more.
The Chatters didn't so much "go away", but the fans of each team liked the idea so much they took it to a circle jerk. Yankees fans and Braves fans and Red Sox fans loved the idea and made game chatters at their own sites. ESPN added the feature after we did.

It's a great idea, and *we* didn't get rid of them - fans of teams prefer groupthink chatters.
   396. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: July 10, 2010 at 11:32 PM (#3585248)
That's fair. I mostly "chatter" for series against the Mets, because it's fun to taunt you silly little bastards.
   397. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: July 11, 2010 at 12:26 AM (#3585265)
Are dugouts banned or is it just that nobody is up to submitting them? I don't recall a banishment of them.
   398. Srul Itza Posted: July 11, 2010 at 12:42 AM (#3585271)
I had never (and still haven't) met anyone with the first name of Srul or the last name of Itza.


They are both Yiddische first names. Srul is a diminutive of Yisrael (Israel) and Itza (also Itcha) is a diminutive of Yitzhak (Isaac). They were the first names given to me by parents, and were the names of a recently deceased relatives. They then picked out an english name with the same initials.

I don't think it ever even occurred to me that Srul Itza was a real name. Awesome.


As noted, it is and it isn't. The funny thing, to me, is that when I got the hebrew school, the rabbis insisted that Srul Itza was an illegitimate yiddishism, and proceeded to tel me that my name was Yisrael Yitzhak. Being rabbis, there was no convincing them otherwise.

So I consider that I have four sets of first names:

Srul Itza (the original)
Yisrael Yitzhak (the formal hebrew version)
Israel Isaac (the translation)
S____ I_____ (my english name, as it appears on my birth certificate)
   399. SoSH U at work Posted: July 11, 2010 at 12:43 AM (#3585272)
Are dugouts banned or is it just that nobody is up to submitting them? I don't recall a banishment of them.


No. GGC has pretty much handled that chore exclusively in the past, but I think his schedule hasn't really allowed for it recently.
   400. Srul Itza Posted: July 11, 2010 at 12:44 AM (#3585276)
I REALLY miss the large old chatter days


Seconded. I have looked in on RLYW, but the problem is that it is all Yankee fans.

What made the chatters great was having fans of both teams, and even neutrals, commenting together on the same game. You still get a little of that in Met chatters.
Page 4 of 8 pages  < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam M
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(1159 - 3:40pm, Nov 27)
Last: DJS and the Infinite Sadness

NewsblogSource: Tomas agrees to six-year deal with D-backs | MLB.com
(19 - 3:39pm, Nov 27)
Last: shoewizard

NewsblogSandy Alderson says Mets can move quickly if a shortstop becomes available - NY Daily News
(31 - 3:32pm, Nov 27)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk

NewsblogOTP Politics November 2014: Mets Deny Bias in Ticket Official’s Firing
(5035 - 3:20pm, Nov 27)
Last: Spahn Insane

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(83 - 3:14pm, Nov 27)
Last: Good cripple hitter

NewsblogJon Lester has plenty of options in addition to Red Sox - Sports - The Boston Globe
(8 - 3:10pm, Nov 27)
Last: Walt Davis

Newsblog[Cricketer NOT baseball player] Phil Hughes dies after “pitch” to the head
(7 - 3:06pm, Nov 27)
Last: Greg K

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(8712 - 2:51pm, Nov 27)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

NewsblogDave Cameron: A proposed three-way swap for Red Sox, Mariners, Nationals
(40 - 2:44pm, Nov 27)
Last: Darren

NewsblogNotable Players Available In The Rule 5 Draft - BaseballAmerica.com
(10 - 1:34pm, Nov 27)
Last: Dock Ellis on Acid

NewsblogOT:  Soccer (the Round, True Football), November 2014
(540 - 1:33pm, Nov 27)
Last: Swedish Chef

NewsblogWhat's cooking? MLB shares Turkey Day recipes | MLB.com
(3 - 1:20pm, Nov 27)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogBoston Red Sox prove (once again) that competitive balance in baseball will never exist | cleveland.com
(34 - 12:32pm, Nov 27)
Last: Tom Nawrocki

Hall of Merit2015 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(56 - 11:56am, Nov 27)
Last: Patrick W

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - November 2014
(1140 - 7:27am, Nov 27)
Last: GregD

Page rendered in 0.8207 seconds
52 querie(s) executed