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Commie.
That shows his love for his new country.
I hope he's not becoming a dual national. I've never understood that, at least for adults. Children born of parents from two countries - fine. Adults - if you become a citizen of one country, you should be required to give up the citizenship in your former country. Otherwise, it's just a "what can you do for me, but I can always retreat to the other country" relationship.
#5, I think you are correct. You can hold 2 passports. If they'll let some slacker like me carry both U.S. and Australian passports, then just about anyone can qualify.
I don't know if his wife is American, although I assume that she is, and it's probably less hassle for him post-career if he's an American citizen. My sister's married to an American and I think she'll end up doing the same thing.
I'd be ok with some sort of an open border myself, although with the guns there and the pot here, it's probably a political impossibility.
It doesn't work like that. If Bay gains dual nationality, then both Canada and the U.S. can draft him, for example. In fact he could be drafted by one country, do his service, get mustered out, then drafted by the second country.
Citizenship shouldn't be a convenience - Bay seems to have decided that he should be a US citizen because it's convenient. I see that as both a slap against the US AND Canada.
From Wikipedia:
Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian living in Canada, planned to bomb Los Angeles International Airport (LAX). He was arrested at Port Angeles, Washington after crossing by ferry from Victoria, British Columbia, on December 14, 1999. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his automobile. He and three other Algerians stood trial for the crime. Ressam began cooperating with investigators in 2001. On July 27, 2005, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison.
From Global Security.org
On December 14, 1999, Ressam drove his rental car onto the ferry from Victoria, Canada, to Port Angeles,Washington. Ressam planned to drive to Seattle and meet Meskini, with whom he would travel to Los Angeles and case LAX. They planned to detonate the bomb on or around January 1, 2000. At the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) preinspection station in Victoria, Ressam presented officials with his genuine but fraudulently obtained Canadian passport, from which he had torn the Afghanistan entry and exit stamps.The INS agent on duty ran the passport through a variety of databases but, since it was not in Ressam’s name, he did not pick up the pending Canadian arrest warrants. After a cursory examination of Ressam’s car, the INS agents allowed Ressam to board the ferry. Late in the afternoon of December 14, Ressam arrived in Port Angeles. He waited for all the other cars to depart the ferry, assuming (incorrectly) that the last car off would draw less scrutiny. Customs officers assigned to the port, noticing Ressam’s nervousness, referred him to secondary inspection. When asked for additional identification, Ressam handed the Customs agent a Price Costco membership card in the same false name as his passport. As that agent began an initial pat-down, Ressam panicked and tried to run away.
Inspectors examining Ressam’s rental car found the explosives concealed in the spare tire well, but at first they assumed the white powder and viscous liquid were drug-related—until an inspector pried apart and identified one of the four timing devices concealed within black boxes. Ressam was placed under arrest. Investigators guessed his target was in Seattle. They did not learn about the Los Angeles airport planning until they reexamined evidence seized in Montreal in 2000; they obtained further details when Ressam began cooperating in May 2001.
Mate...lighten up. Personally I reckon all the democratic countries shouldn't have any borders and you should be able to live, work, raise a family, pay taxes and die anywhere you damn please. It's the barriers that rankle people. Why do you think America was the kick-arse place it was? Because any old schmoe from some backwater country could go there at one time and try to make it big, they didn't give a crap where you were from. That's the attitude every democracy needs to adopt.
Geez, imagine how that would work? As if guys like Jon Stewart don't have enough material already, a global government would re-define the term farcical.
That's the oath that is sworn upon becoming a naturalized US citizen - it is legal to drop "on oath" and replace it with "and solemnly affirm", and to drop "so help me God" if required for religious reasons, and to drop the part about military service if certified as a pacifist - basically for religious reasons.
I don't see how maintaining dual citizenship is consistent with this however. How can citizenship be based on a lie at the very beginning?
If the US and Canada decided to give full rights of citizenship to each other's citizens, that would be one thing. Ditto for US and Australia, or for any other Democratic country. But that is not the case, and let's not pretend that it is. So long as there are real separations between countries, it is farcical to have somebody claim dual citizenship.
And yes, the whole "ARod wants to represent both the US and the Dominican" bothered me greatly.
In fact, it strikes me as a rather ludicrous thing to get worked up over.
Well now that's just silly. The US is making Bay pledged to assist in national defense? Hasn't the State Department seen his recent UZR numbers?
FWIW, pretend this quote was from Manny Ramirez a few years ago, and I'll bet there would be a minor uproar about the cavalier nature of his decision...
I don't think so, but I have to use my US passport to get in. I've not much idea about what hassles foreigners experience. I know some US border control officers have been needlessly rude to Mrs fra paolo, who uses a UK passport although she is an adopted citizen there. It's like they want to demand her to use her country-of-birth passport, but they can't because it's perfectly legal for her not to when entering the US.
One of the many good things about, say, Belgium, is that once you get in there, you can enter France and Germany and other Schengen countries, without any hassle, like crossing from Indiana to Michigan. There's all these abandoned border-crossing points along the main roads.
I've never understood that, at least for adults...if you become a citizen of one country, you should be required to give up the citizenship in your former country.
It used to be you couldn't keep your US citizenship if you took up that of another country, unless you swore some kind of loyalty oath. I don't know when they changed the law, but I think it's since 1982. I'm the opposite - I understand all too well why one would want to be a dual national, but it wouldn't be hard to decide if I was forced to choose. It's really all about a passport or maybe taxes, and in the end that's just pieces of paper. What really settles the matter are your family ties. You end up favouring the country with the strongest ones on your heart.
I think he should do that.
If you're a white Canadian, there's really no hassle at all. At most, you'll get a couple questions about where you're going and how long you intend to stay (unless your name is close to a match for one of those on one of the assorted watch lists). If you're not white, then your treatment will vary heavily depending on how not white you are, how not white your name is, and how big a jerk the border guard or customs agent you encounter is (with the last item being the most important item in determining the level of treatment).
Also, as one of my friends found out, when asked what you do for a living, under no circumstances should you ever say that you're doing research on viruses, unless you really want to spend about 6 hours in a back room somewhere getting quizzed about everything you've ever done and everyone you've ever known.
If you believe an oath is meaningless, it is reasonable to suppose you have very little honor.
Right, Mister?
(actually, I'm 99% sure he'd play for Canada)
The only time I've been harassed by customs is when I traveled to Nova Scotia alone to do some camping. I got the shake down on the way in and on the way out. Does Nova Scotia have some kind of drug trafficking problem?
I'm a dual citizen. Two American parents, born in Australia.
Alone is (relatively) bad. Even my mother's been hassled a bit when crossing alone (and white women old enough to have adult children avoid every stereotype of troublemakers imaginable. Probably even had a big sticker on the car window that identified her as a teacher.) Strange, maybe it's the accent, but I'm usually pretty sure Canadian border guards aren't even listening to what I'm saying. In Sarnia, I conversed with a Canadian border guard like:
Her: "What's the total value of the goods you're bringing into Canada?"
Me: "None. I'm not bringing anything back."
Her: "What's the total value of the alcohol you're bringing into Canada?"
Me: "None. I'm not bringing anything back."
Her: "What's the total value of the tobacco you're bringing into Canada?"
Me: "None. I'm not bringing anything back."
She then concluded since I had my passport in my hand to show her, she didn't need to actually look at it. If you're concerned, just double up on the accent. "Where are you from?" "Toronto." = "Cavity search". "Where are you from?" "Oh, I'm fram Traunna, eh?" = "Well, you're probably fine." Even works at the "Do you have any nuclear weapons in the car?" "Oh, no, none o' that, eh? You can check aboot the trunk if you like." level.
I think he should do that.
That really was a nice moment. For a couple days we got a break from the usual Manny bashing.
The Homeland Security gestapo are pretty rude even to Americans. I can imagine the peace of mind that comes from having a US passport knowing that even if they're jerks to you they don't really have the power to send you back to where you came from.
Word. I nearly got tasered one time because I accidentally left a penny in my pants when I emptied my pockets at the metal detector.
########. They have a very difficult and important job and get very little appreciation because they put people slightly out of the way for the benifit of national security.
Out of curiosity, how long have you worked for them?
Yeah, security theater doesn't perform itself!
Now, I do not expect sympathy for that. Rules are rules. I get that.
My issue is that he let me go through, but not until after he tortured me and lectured me about my i.d. He made out like I was going to be turned back right up until the moment he let me through.
Look, if you can't let me through, okay. Not your fault. If you CAN let me through (which obviously he could) then make your judgment and let's go. There is no need to be an ass about it.
Now the Canadian border guards I have always found very polite. Even when the driver of the car I was in suddenly realized she had a sword in the back. :)
They aren't paid to be friendly, they are paid to protect. They are not in a service industry or trying to get you to buy something, being nice hasn't nothing to do with it.
I would agree with you, Matt, but they really are needlessly unpleasant relative to what one experiences in other countries.
I can name about eight countries where the border control officers are better behaved, and that includes France. Think about that - France with its CRS or whatever those Gestapo riot police are acronymed.
The United States should meet generally accepted international standards, not send its border people to Rudeness JuCo.
Most customs/security people I've dealt with are friendly. The only conclusion I can make of that is the one's that are rude are just dicks.
Yeah, being nice and respectful is for women!
I'm not sure I see how it can be consistent to say that it's fine for children born with dual citizenship to keep it as adults, but it isn't okay for adults to acquire dual citizenship. If dual citizenship is fine for some people, it should be fine for everyone, regardless of how it was acquired. Conversely, if it is a bad thing then no one should be able to have it, regardless of how acquired.
To a certain extent, they are trying to get us to buy something. As far as I know, you are a trading people and you want foreigners visiting and spending money in your country. You have legitimate interests in national security that you need to protect. More to the point, perhaps, they represent your country to the world. The default should be "not acting like a dick". Hassling middle aged white ladies isn't really about protection either - it's about people who think that they're on par with soldiers because they're making sure that some lady from Steinbach isn't a terrorist. If you're going to have the attitude that some of those guys have, you really ought to be doing something that probably isn't even safer than real police work.
I had an encounter with them in May that was appalling in terms of the unnecessary dickishness. Had it been Canadian border guards acting that way and I had some leverage, I would have made a huge stink about it once I got back home.
Which doesn't help matters, insofar as they suck at protecting, too.
Maybe they should try paying them to be friendly. We wouldn't be any less safe.
They are paid to represent the United States at our borders. Security is a big part of that, but not unnecessarily being an ahole to visitors isn't too much to ask.
Meanwhile, look at the cost of all this security. The value of US-Canada trade is $1.5 billion per day. 70% of that trade is by truck. So every time you add expense to companies that are doing cross border trade, you cost economic productivity which obviously means costing people jobs. So there are people right now who are unemployed, who could be employed if it wasn't for this misguided border crack down that accomplishes little to nothing to increase security, but costs the economy billions of dollars a year and delays the trips of every single one of the 300,000 people a day who cross the border. So how many people's jobs is it worth, in order to have the possibility of maybe someday catching another terrorist who was so stupid he would try to sneak across the border with all his bomb stuff instead of just acquiring it within the US? At some point, it just isn't rational to invest so many resources into something that has only a completely random and tiny chance of every producing any tangible benefit. The two biggest recent acts of terrorism on US soil (Oklahoma City and 9/11) were perpetrated by people who either were US citizens or who entered the US without trouble. The Border Protection guys are not catching scads of terrorists trying to sneak across the border, but they are making trucks filled with parts and goods that people want to buy sit in long lines and costing companies money that they could otherwise be investing in job creating activities.
And you aren't being paid to be friendly, which is apparently why you go through life acting like a total douche bag.
They are paid to create the illusion they are protecting.
Also, if there are people doing this just for convenience, their paperwork is probably delaying citizenship/green cards/etc for people who really need or want them. Maybe not the best use of everyone's time.
It is called being a decent human being.
He's a millionaire. No need to blame it on him being a white anglophone (though that ain't not bad neither).
Of course, he could've been working on this for the last five years, and just not issuing press releases.
This is actually the most useful link, from Reason - it puts the time for citizenship for athlete types at six to seven years, so Bay's case looks about right to me.
I'm dual US-German.
Usually it was the INS, which was often compared to a third-world bureaucracy because of how slow and arbitrary it was.
Not even Yakov Smirnoff?
Right -- for most of us, it was very conveinent to be born here.
As someone retired from the Armed Forces and with relatives in law enforcement of varying levels including the FBI and the Dept of Homeland Security (Borders & Customs) we take comfort in scorn and ridicule.
Seriously. It's understood in our fraternity that when folks mock us for our efforts it's fairly clear folks feel free from the cares and concerns felt by so many in places around the world.
No particular comparison intended, I just often think of this passage when someone is compared to the Gestapo.
As a veteran of the Gulf War, I find you smugness intolerable.
>>>It's understood in our fraternity that when folks mock us for our efforts it's fairly clear folks feel free from the cares and concerns felt by so many in places around the world.<<
Get off your high horse. I wasn't "mocking" anything.
Speak for yourself. I know my forebears and you don't. They were pretty grateful to even be permitted to come here in the first place; they didn't see it as some kind of entitlement like most people today seem to.
Except in the case of the DHS that feeling is in spite of their efforts and not due to them.
Korea > Gulf War
My forebears left didn't just turn off being Irish or Welsh when they came to America and got citizenship. If the concept of dual citizenship had existed then most people likely would have taken it. I don't believe for a second immigrants today are less grateful then they were a hundred years ago and most of them retain citizenship if they can.
I applied for US citizenship last July, and was sworn in by November. I am/was not a dirty Canadian, so I don't think that matters, because I got zipped through anyway. I had a friend who is an attorney act as my "representative" and look over my application, but I could have easily handled it myself and I would describe the whole process as much quicker and easier than I expected.
If you have any criminal record or unpaid taxes, I think it's much more difficult. Also, the application fee isn't cheap. Otherwise, I would have to say in my experience, it is actually pretty darn convenient.
Leaving aside the armed forces for a second, which I don't think is being mocked by anyone and which I view as being completely different from people in the FBI/DHS/local police, the obvious problem with that line of thinking is that it requires assuming that the FBI/DHS are responsible for that freedom from care and concern. I haven't had any dealings with the FBI or local American police but 54 makes a pretty strong point about DHS.
And again, if someone can explain how acting like a ######### makes your country safer, I'm all for hearing it.
EDIT: Not saying Harvey's acting like a #########.
In fact, it strikes me as a rather ludicrous thing to get worked up over.
that is like saying marriage vows are just words.
Well...
Is that some sort of pissing contest over particular war? If not, what is your point? That the Frozen Chosen had it tougher against the Commies than the late 20th Century techno kids had it against Saddam? No argument there. That doesn't excuse the posters' smugness though.
yes, I'm going to edit that though.
I hope so. I'm already looking forward to a 500 post digression with each person who served telling every other person who served that they didn't serve in a real war.
Pass. Please?
How about a 500 post thread about the historical significance of each war?
I was working to convey that I believe there are many hard-working folks in various levels of government doing their best. And I hate the idea that their fellow citizens believe it's all for naught.
I don't believe I have presented either in any other manner.
It doesn't make it more at risk. At the end of the day, if these people are doing there job I don't care if they horses asses.
I wouldn't be suprised if being colder/harder/more difficult may at least at the surface make it more difficult for someone to bypass/subvert screening due to increased increased level of discomfort and axiety. Obviously that won't stop the pro's trying to subvert but some of the it may have some impact on the more amaturish.
I can bring this all together by saying that one of my ancestors came to the U.S. as a way of dodging the draft in WWI, and another came to the U.S. as a way to keep out of the Prussian Army (and thus missing both the Austro- and Franco-Prussian wars).
It read as snark, as if you were talking with disdain to some peacenik who never lifted a finger for his country. If that wasn't your intent, then I apologize for taking umbrage to your comment.
All wars sucked, even the "good" ones.
That's what BBTF is all about!!
As a citizen of NYC, I know it's not for naught. There's a lot of BS that goes on in Homeland Security, though. The worst thing we can do is get complacent about them. If there's one government agency we should hold to a higher standard, it's them. They failed the Katrina test horribly. (Without getting into politics and Bush and all that, I see Katrina as the real first test of Homeland's security's ability to coordinate a mass evacuation and they failed miserably. What if a terrorist's bomb had broken the levee instead of a hurricane? Also, speaking of coordinating mass evacuations...why isn't there a database of volunteers willing to take people into their homes when a massive disaster strikes? Say an earthquake in San Francisco or a massive flood in Memphis or a terrorist attack in NYC. I think people around the country would be willing to take in refugees through some kind of FEMA or Homeland Security program. It would beat the hell out of the ####### Astrodome.)
served Gulf war(not actually participating in the gulf war, stuck stateside while my squadron was going over) and still think it's stupid for anyone to say anything about a persons service either volunteer or drafted. (episode of King of the Hill dealt with people like this where it was a veterans bar and it had a sign on the wall "no fighting about wars" or something equally stupid)
But I just got those stimulus dollars to develop an inflatable tent the size of Miller Park!
Hire me Harv. I want to work for you!
So, do you think we can make it happen with a rip cord? Self inflatable?
Because d*mn, I can't expect counties to have 200 bike pumps handy............
This is easy. Just harvest the hot air of BBTF. Problem solved. See, you need a good idea man like me.
That's what BBTF is all about!!
do the hokie pokie and turn yourself around..
Problem solved.
Now, why do I need to hire you?
This isn't a bad thing. It took me 3.5 years to get a US green card, and I was fast-tracked. All the while, if my company fired me, I would have been required to move back to Canada immediately. That's not a fun thing while the economy was tanking, and wondering if we should take a mortgage.
Why would I give up my Canadian citizenship if ever I become American? And, if in 10 years I want to go back to Canada for whatever reason, now I have to go through a process to reclaim my citizenship. All for... what exactly?
The oath? What about the "til death do us part" oath? That one gets broken all the time, and no one really cares about it either.
I also claimed my Italian citizenship (as a child of Italians), which makes it easier for me if ever I want to work in the EU.
It's all fine and dandy that 300 million people won the sp-rm lottery by being born here. Just don't look down on the rest of us if we want to keep ties to our own heritage, however strongly we want to.
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