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1. Harveys Wallbangersedit: Which reminds me of that scene from The Office when Michael starts quoting from Chris Rock's routine. That was good stuff, especially for a white guy that likes Chris Rock's stand up. In fairness to me, I also quote the masturbation jokes, too. That bit about leaving the porn movie in the VCR is gold, people!
That's impossible - there are no jokes on Tosh.O.
No good ones, anyway.
Presented without comment...
Hey now, Scotty may be a corn fed honkey but the man was head of engineering on the Federation's flagship!
I'll take your word for it, but he seemed to take great umbrage after Phillips' nonchalant reaction to the HBP. Then he threw over to first even though Phillips' foot was literally on the bag.
"you play like a young Mick, ehh, man-tool".
Whatever Hughes said next could only been justified by that blatent anti-irish Tosh.o reference.
but seriously, all I could pick up was Brandon Phillips saying to the ump "My boy", probably in relation to saying "I was just telling my boy (Andrew) what happened"
But "Boy" does seem like the likely term. I have a hard time seeing someone right on the field saying "Take your base ######\".
Now the huntsman, he can't hunt the fox
Nor loudly blow his horn
And the tinker, he can't mend his pots
Without John Barleycorn
Phillips isn't really that big of an ass, more of a guy who still remembers that it's a game often times and has a tendency to rub people the wrong way in that he's not fully serious about everything he says. He got in trouble with Cardinal fans for an off hand remark, the Cardinal announcers hate him because he "smiles during a game" (which they interpret to mean he doesn't care) etc. (The Molina tap was him not realizing that the two teams were volatile, and him thinking this is somewhat of a joke thing. It was never intended to fire up the Cardinals the way it did, just Brandon being Brandon)
If you pay attention to Phillips though, you have a guy who plays hard while remembering that the word play is in the expression of play hard. He's vocal and more or less very honest with his comments and ultimately seems like a decent enough guy. (again, any player who randomly shows up to a twitter follower's baseball game because he is in the neighborhood, cannot be a bad guy)
I don't ever doubt that a person who claims to have heard a racist remark, thinks that is what he heard, but oftentimes it seems that it's taken out of context or intent is put into a response that was never intended.
The news in Pittsburgh tonight reported that indeed, the word that upset Phillips was "boy". Personally I'd have been more upset to be called a motherf$*@er, which Hughes clearly called him. But then again I can't vouch for the intelligence of someone who thought that he got hit intentionally in the bottom of the eight inning in a tie game that the Pirates absolutely needed to win.
Sometime this afternoon McCutchen got Phillips and Hughes together on the phone and supposedly they worked this all out.
You're insulting his intelligence because he was offended by a racist remark? Unless Hughes is 60-years old, there's no other way that he meant it.
I usually go with 'son' in any verbal altercation. That's seems to piss of everybody. I wonder how long until society somehow decides it's racist as well.
Boy is racist when spoken by a white guy to a black guy..... just like pretty much every other harmless words if someone wants to find offense with it.
To me its more of a challenge to his manhood.
Phillips' nonchalant reaction to the HBP.
Flipping the ball towards second is a dick move.
I do remember a midnight thanksgiving football game between restaurants about 13 years back in which one of the dishwashers brought his crackhead friends along to play as well and they were a little too rough for an asphalt friendly. One of our sous chefs told the dishwasher that he'd better get his boys in line and one of the crackheads took offense to it. It was rather comical but the sous chef didn't mean it the way the guy took it nor did he back down.
I remember being confused when I saw this line in a movie...the reversal of racial roles didn't compute. But given stuff like that in today's culture (wait, that movie is 16 years old?!) and the fact that Jared Hughes was born in 1985 leads me to believe it's at least plausible that he didn't recognize the racial implications. Certainly disrespect was intended, and I don't think there's anything wrong with Philips for perceiving racism there - but that's why you get the guys on the phone to talk it out afterwards.
Which was my point. Sometimes people say things that can be taken two ways, and what really matters is intent. Projecting your belief of their intent is where the conflict starts.
And some people would argue that it doesn't matter what your intent was and the only thing that matters is how they perceived it. Something I don't agree with.
I remember being in a conversation with somebody and to try and get the point across I mentioned used their grandmother and her medicines as an example. The guy got all mad because his grandmother was dead and even though I had said nothing insulting about his grandmother he told me that he was insulted and that it didn't matter what I intended but that the only thing that matters was how he took it. At that point I told him to take it and shove it up his dead grandmother's rotting eye socket. The internet can be fun sometimes.
And they are clearly wrong. Just to be blunt.
Someone can say something insensitive(as the example you gave points out) and should apologize for insensitivity(even if they didn't have knowledge, and the apology should be accepted without reservation--generally speaking) but without the intent to insult someone, the insult doesn't exist except in the fevered imagination of the perceiver. Mind you there is a reasonable limit to unintentional offensive remarks. (You can't throw out racial/sexual epithets and expect to get away with it because you weren't intending to insult, there is an acceptable cultural norm that should be followed. It's arguable that boy is one of those words, but it's also a word that has been massively desensitized over the past 30 years, to the point that intent really should matter)
I was born in 1985. In fact, Jared Hughes is a couple months older than I am. I know damn well and have known so for a very long time that boy is not an appropriate thing to say to a black person unless they're six. Phillips is four years older, it's hardly the first insult that is going to come to mind when you're in a conflict with someone older.
"Boy" was used in the past to refer to or address any young male servant or service type person of any color. It's not only inappropriate to say to black people, it's inappropriate to say to anyone. I have no idea what color you are, or even if you're a young male, but I would never call you "boy" unless I meant to really piss you off.
If it's inappropriate to say to someone regardless of their race, then its inappropriateness is not dependent on race and it can't be "racist."
You're cheating. Either the word is applied and evaluated in context -- i.e., the literally tens of thousands (*) of ears that hear the n-word daily today -- or it's not. You can't claim "context, context, context" with the n-word and then demand that we evaluate "boy" in the 2012 North in the way it was used in the 1950s South.
(*) Millions, really, but I don't want to get hung up on the number.
I agree with this. 'Boy' is an insult to anyone, same as 'son' mentioned above. If Hughes said 'boy, go pick my cotton' or something like that directly referencing slavery or JC South then it would be racist.
But he took off his hat!
But "boy" is a term used to demean blacks particularly for so long that it's both generally demeaning and pointedly racist.
If I call a friend "my n!gger", it's OK (same as if I called him a "d!ck swollower"); if I call someone I don't know, or someone I don't like a "n!gger", that's the lowest of the low. That's the context - Hughes and Phillips aren't friends (Hughes had just drilled him, after all), and then called him "boy". I'd be pissed if I were Phillips, too.
If the pitcher were Jamie Moyer, or Roger Clemens making his comeback, players of all races should be reasonably expected to not take 'boy' in that way. Except Julio Franco.
Nobody is saying it's not an insult, they are saying it's not a racially motivated insult unless the intent behind the words were racially motivated. Nobody doubts that someone in the dugout was trying to insult and piss off Phillips, it's whether or not it was racially motivated that is the issue.
Hughes may have had no racial intent, but I don't think there's anything wrong with Phillips calling it racist if that's how he perceived it, especially given the history of the term. If Hughes had called him a "chair" and Phillips felt the same way...that would be different.
EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that just because I think Phillips can be justified in calling Hughes a racist or saying Hughes made a racist comment does not actually mean Hughes is racist.
I was born in 1985. In fact, Jared Hughes is a couple months older than I am. I know damn well and have known so for a very long time that boy is not an appropriate thing to say to a black person unless they're six.
Good for you. Maybe Jared Hughes didn't know that.
If it's inappropriate to say to someone regardless of their race, then its inappropriateness is not dependent on race and it can't be "racist."
Look, it's clear that Hughes was intending to piss off Phillips. To say that using "boy" in that scenario with a white person is "inappropriate" misses the point, as Hughes wasn't trying to be appropriate. The problem is, using the term with a black person carries additional racial connotations. That doesn't make Hughes a "racist". Hopefully, he didn't know the context and has now learned and apologized.
Well, just the one really. ####### wide recievers.
There might be a greater living American than Andrew McCutchen, but I haven't heard of him/her.
Of course -- but not on the basis of the private's race. We can stipulate that the speaker wanted to demean Phillips, but that doesn't make the ocmment racial or "racist." It makes it demeaning.
If I call a friend "my n!gger", it's OK (same as if I called him a "d!ck swollower")
But "n!gger" is not exhibited, intended for, or heard by only friends in 2012. It's exhibited, intended for, and heard by, hundreds of thousands of people the speaker and exhibitor don't know -- including many white crackers.
I'd be pissed if I were Phillips, too.
Sure. Being demeaned tends to piss people off. But Phillips tweeted "#racism."
But "n!gger" is not exhibited, intended for, or heard by only friends in 2012. It's exhibited, intended for, and heard by, hundreds of thousands of people the speaker and exhibitor don't know -- including many white crackers
With an "a" or with an "er"?
With an "a" or with an "er"?
I have a black cat with white paws that I alternatively have nicknamed My N---a! with an exaggerated Flavor Flav accent and Honkey Paws. This is probably going to get me in trouble one day with multiple species.
EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that just because I think Phillips can be justified in calling Hughes a racist or saying Hughes made a racist comment does not actually mean Hughes is racist.
Agree. One key point - Phillips tweeted #racism, not #racist. Hughes probably didn't have a racist intent, but that doesn't mean that Phillips was out of line in pointing out that the term can be received as a racist remark.
You think that all black men are French waiters? That's a sufficiently weird stereotype that I'm going to adopt it tout de suite.
FWIW, my guess is that this whole thing is as much a regional issue as anything else. I think that a white guy from Connecticut (like Hughes) will be less likely to be aware of the racial subtext of the word than a Southerner like Phillips would be. Hughes thought he was engaging in generic athletic trash talking, and Phillips heard a word that in his experience has a very specific intent. I don't blame Hughes for anything more than a little bit of ignorance, and I don't blame Phillips for lashing out.
I'm trying to figure out what I say when I sing along or repeat/mimic ... with my accent it comes out closest to "eh," though that's not exactly it. Also depends on inflection.
I doubt it, it's not like successive generations have become more willing to throw racial slurs around.
he's really from Orange County, and I don't think either place gets him off the hook. It's not like there's no black people in Connecticut or California.
She called you 'boy' instead of your name."
California is not Orange County...
edit: fwiw here's our timeline
Hughes may or not may have said something.
Phillips tweeted he was racially insulted
Phillips and Hughes broed up over the phone
Phillips said Hughes admitted he said something and apologized
Hughes was just on mlb radio saying he didn't apologize and that he never said anything 'racially charged'
The radio guys didn't apparently want to put Hughes on the spot and point-blank ask "Did you say 'boy'"
I actually do need a pencil.
Link
Edit: or something, after reading 66.
****
I'd be disinclined to use any variant of the n-word as a pet nickname, in conversation, or otherwise. I'm not arguing that it needs to be taken out of usage - or arguing much of anything really - as I've seen a litany of good arguments on various sides of that issue -- just that my not using it is a very small price in exchange for not inadvertently hurting someone.
Even if I feel silly self censoring when I'm alone in my car, rapping along with my stereo.
This is a slightly better article in that it has quotes from Hughes as well:
Phillips forgives him, so our talking about whether he's "off the hook" is pretty meaningless.
Thanks to enjoying baseball mostly through the radio and this site, I only found out Andrew McCutchen is a black guy when I watched this year's All-Star Game.
I mean, come on, that's a pretty white-sounding name, right there.
I'd also been assuming Mike Trout was a black guy, but that really was just racism on my part. Sorry, dude.
Here's how you can tell. BA's draft blurbs on both guys:
McCutchen: "His athletic ability, speed and frame earn comparisons to Mets prospect Lastings Milledge"
Trout: "Trout's frame and skill set draws comparisons to Aaron Rowand"
Trout: "Trout's frame and skill set draws comparisons to Aaron Rowand"
It's cliche, but it's true. The same thing happens in Europe with soccer. Every young, African striker is the next Didier Drogba.
Absolutely true. It doesn't even have to be a race thing. If the player is fast, can play keepy-uppsies, and nutmeg a few guys...then he's the next ####### Maradona. Nevermind that he can't shoot, pass, cross or head for ####.
That is priceless. Mostly for these two potential MVPs to be compared to such pedestrian players (though at least Rowand was good for a couple of years). Prospecting is tough work. Most of the comps used go in the other direction (toolsy CF compared to Mantle or Mays, short righty compared to Oswalt/Hudson, any pitcher over 6'6 compared to Randy Johnson, etc.)
Without checking the numbers, I believe this is made funnier in McCutchen's case by the fact that Milledge was the FAR superior minor league performer (not to mention the holder of a HOF-level ZiPs). Prospecting is tough work, like you said.
You gotta be shittin' me. The best comp for Trout is a refined Bo Jackson. The closest white comp is Kirk Gibson, but Trout's way more advanced and technically skilled than Gibby was at the same age.
I never saw anything one way or another, so I assumed Trout was black until the moment I saw a picture.
For Trout, I think the proper comp of this type is Mays.
Trout:"This gutty gamer gets the most out of his limited ability by giving 110% every day. He is one of the most baseball-savvy grinders in the sport".
Aaron Rowand? Come on.
I'd rather that than consistent comparisons of minor leaguers to guys in or on their way to the Hall of Fame. We talked about it a bit in the draft thread, it sometimes gets forgotten that even having a very pedestrian MLB career can be quite difficult. Guys like Rowand, Rick Helling or Nick Punto while hardly stars are often the success stories of their draft class or minor league teams.
The curious thing? The Heyman article was posted 3 hours before the John Fay post, so you'd think if there was something BP did today it'd be part of the later (more concilliatory) post.
Wasn't Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire playing in the same league as Bo at the same time?
More like he was probably still ticked off or defensive about the whole thing earlier in the day and then later after either he figured it out himself or someone advised him how to handle it he changed his stance.
Also, this speaks volumes about Mr. McCutchen's maturity this year as a emerging team leader as well as a hell of a ballplayer.
Although I don't think we need to follow the NYTimes style sheet when commenting on the newsblog...
Yes, but Bo was still kind of unreal.
Buck O'Neil said only three guys hit with that distinctive sound off the bat: Babe Ruth, Josh Gibson, and Bo Jackson. And I guess he would know.
Just for the record, no, I did not insult his intelligence because he thought he heard a racial remark. I insulted his intelligence because he thought that he got hit intentionally in the eighth inning of a tied game that the opponents needed to win. Pretty desperately, in fact. There is no chance what so ever that Hughes hit Phillips on purpose. None. That Phillips thought it to be so, to the point that he picked up the ball and threw it in Hughes general direction, shows that Phillips either isn't the sharpest tool in the shed or was so pissed off about getting hit that he wasn't thinking straight.
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