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Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Brandon Phillips accuses unnamed Pirates player of racist comments

It seemingly began in the eighth inning, when Reds second baseman and firebrand Brandon Phillips was plunked by Pittsburgh right-hander Jared Hughes (here’s the video at MLB.com). Both benches were warned, and comments and glares were exchanged. Still, it seemed pedestrian enough, as near-brawls go.

After the game, however, Phillips took to Twitter and announced this:

  Brandon Phillips

    #RealTalk… Not really surprised by what I heard come outta another player’s mouth tonite but DAMN… Still PISSED bout that $h¡+!! #Racism
 

Obviously, that’s a serious accusation. Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reports that the Pirates are aware of Phillips’s accusation but that it’s not yet certain whether they’ll address it. At this writing, Phillips has not yet elaborated on the incident, but it’s safe to say we haven’t heard the last of this.

Thanks to Garry.

Repoz Posted: September 11, 2012 at 06:36 AM | 91 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: pirates, reds

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   1. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: September 11, 2012 at 07:05 AM (#4232299)
i remarked in the lounge that phillips was clearly upset as even after the inning ended he waited for mccutcheon to come in from center to say something and then the second base umpire had to guide him away from the pittsburgh dugout
   2. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 07:17 AM (#4232302)
Josh Harrison, how could you!?!
   3. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 11, 2012 at 08:20 AM (#4232319)
Maybe the Pirates player was just telling Phillips a joke he heard on Tosh.O?

edit: Which reminds me of that scene from The Office when Michael starts quoting from Chris Rock's routine. That was good stuff, especially for a white guy that likes Chris Rock's stand up. In fairness to me, I also quote the masturbation jokes, too. That bit about leaving the porn movie in the VCR is gold, people!
   4. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 11, 2012 at 08:27 AM (#4232323)
Hughes seems like a hot head. Still, hard to believe he'd intentionlly put on a runner in a tie game in the 8th.
   5. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:05 AM (#4232348)
Can't we all just get along...with Brandon Phillips? Apparently not.
   6. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:25 AM (#4232367)
Hughes isn't a hothead at all. At least he never seemed like one in the least when he was in Altoona, on the field or in person. Brandon Phillips has always struck me as kind of an #######. Obviously that's no excuse for calling him racist epithets. Calling him an ####### will do.
   7. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:34 AM (#4232381)
Maybe the Pirates player was just telling Phillips a joke he heard on Tosh.O?


That's impossible - there are no jokes on Tosh.O.

No good ones, anyway.
   8. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:39 AM (#4232386)
One of the Reds fan Tweets in response to Phillips's tweet:

@DatDudeBP who? That pitcher who beamed you? He looks like a corn-fed, ignorant honkey #############


Presented without comment...
   9. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:41 AM (#4232387)
@DatDudeBP who? That pitcher who beamed you? He looks like a corn-fed, ignorant honkey #############

Hey now, Scotty may be a corn fed honkey but the man was head of engineering on the Federation's flagship!
   10. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:42 AM (#4232389)
Without corn, there is no Jim Beam.
   11. TDF, situational idiot Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:51 AM (#4232403)

Presented without comment...
Of course, if the picture in the background of your link is of the twitterer, he should know a corn-fed ignorant honkey when he meets one.

   12. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:13 AM (#4232430)
#6, not sure what makes you think Brandon phillips is an #######. He always just seemed like a hard-working, slightly flashy ballplayer to me. The league can always use more of those. Darwin Barney has credited a couple of conversations he had with Phillips for helping turn him into the best defensive 2B in the league. Helping out a guy who might steal away the gold glove from you does not sound like ####### behavior to me.

   13. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4232439)
I've been a fan of Brandon Phillips ever since he showed up at a youth baseball game on an off-day:
Last Thursday afternoon, just before Connor left his Shelby County home for his Little League game with the Cincinnati Flames U-14 select team at the West Chester Baseball Complex, he happened to check out the Twitter account of Phillips, the Cincinnati Reds popular second baseman who is one of his favorite players.

It was the Reds day off and Phillips had tweeted (@DatDudeBP) that he was be at Joe Morgan’s Honda dealership in Monroe.

“Connor knows where that car lot is because we go by it every time we take him to a game,” Brenda said.

On a whim, Connor sent Phillips a tweet asking him to come to his game.

To his amazement the Reds All Star responded “where and when.”

On the way to the game Brenda and her husband Randy tried tempering Connor’s expectations. “Brandon hadn’t responded back to Connor’s last tweet so we told him, ‘Look, don’t count on him being there’” Brenda said. “Never in a million years did we think Brandon really would show up. So when we got to the game we never said anything to any of the other parents.”

Meanwhile, as he was finishing eating, Phillips said he thought about that last-minute invite.

“I had been asking everybody what I should do that day and a lot of people gave me ideas and the next thing I got the tweet from (Connor),” Phillips recounted in the Reds clubhouse the other day. “I still had time and I thought, ‘Dang, that’s something new to do so why not go support the little man?’”
   14. Best Regards, President of Comfort Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4232472)
   15. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4232477)
Well it was monday.
   16. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4232486)
I don't know. I allow it might be a complete misperception on my part, and I agree his work ethic is not in question. When I watch him play and interact with other players there's always seemed to be just a certain arrogance that's rubbed me the wrong way. I'm probably wrong. I'm pretty sure it's not racism; I'm one of the last "B.J. Upton gets an unfair bad rap" holdouts, among other things.
   17. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:44 AM (#4232489)
Hughes isn't a hothead at all. At least he never seemed like one in the least when he was in Altoona, on the field or in person.

I'll take your word for it, but he seemed to take great umbrage after Phillips' nonchalant reaction to the HBP. Then he threw over to first even though Phillips' foot was literally on the bag.
   18. morineko Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4232514)
#16: maybe it's the whole flap with the Cardinals when Phillips tapped Molina with his bat, and then that giant brawl?
   19. KT's Pot Arb Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4232529)
i can lip read, and when slowing down the video, Brandon clearly brought up race first when in the scrum he said to Hughes

"you play like a young Mick, ehh, man-tool".

Whatever Hughes said next could only been justified by that blatent anti-irish Tosh.o reference.
   20. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:08 AM (#4232533)
i can lip read


but seriously, all I could pick up was Brandon Phillips saying to the ump "My boy", probably in relation to saying "I was just telling my boy (Andrew) what happened"

But "Boy" does seem like the likely term. I have a hard time seeing someone right on the field saying "Take your base ######\".
   21. Poster Nutbag Posted: September 11, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4232660)
Without corn, there is no Jim Beam.


Now the huntsman, he can't hunt the fox
Nor loudly blow his horn
And the tinker, he can't mend his pots
Without John Barleycorn
   22. Rennie's Tenet Posted: September 11, 2012 at 03:03 PM (#4232845)
Since Hughes and Phillips were at least 40-50 feet apart, wouldn't it make sense that other players and umpires would have been within earshot of what was shouted?
   23. cardsfanboy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4232859)
Hughes isn't a hothead at all. At least he never seemed like one in the least when he was in Altoona, on the field or in person. Brandon Phillips has always struck me as kind of an #######. Obviously that's no excuse for calling him racist epithets. Calling him an ####### will do.


Phillips isn't really that big of an ass, more of a guy who still remembers that it's a game often times and has a tendency to rub people the wrong way in that he's not fully serious about everything he says. He got in trouble with Cardinal fans for an off hand remark, the Cardinal announcers hate him because he "smiles during a game" (which they interpret to mean he doesn't care) etc. (The Molina tap was him not realizing that the two teams were volatile, and him thinking this is somewhat of a joke thing. It was never intended to fire up the Cardinals the way it did, just Brandon being Brandon)

If you pay attention to Phillips though, you have a guy who plays hard while remembering that the word play is in the expression of play hard. He's vocal and more or less very honest with his comments and ultimately seems like a decent enough guy. (again, any player who randomly shows up to a twitter follower's baseball game because he is in the neighborhood, cannot be a bad guy)

I don't ever doubt that a person who claims to have heard a racist remark, thinks that is what he heard, but oftentimes it seems that it's taken out of context or intent is put into a response that was never intended.
   24. Bob Tufts Posted: September 11, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4232883)
"He said the sheriff is near."
   25. Pirate Joe Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4233166)
But "Boy" does seem like the likely term.



The news in Pittsburgh tonight reported that indeed, the word that upset Phillips was "boy". Personally I'd have been more upset to be called a motherf$*@er, which Hughes clearly called him. But then again I can't vouch for the intelligence of someone who thought that he got hit intentionally in the bottom of the eight inning in a tie game that the Pirates absolutely needed to win.

Sometime this afternoon McCutchen got Phillips and Hughes together on the phone and supposedly they worked this all out.

   26. JJ1986 Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4233182)
The news in Pittsburgh tonight reported that indeed, the word that upset Phillips was "boy". Personally I'd have been more upset to be called a motherf$*@er, which Hughes clearly called him. But then again I can't vouch for the intelligence of someone who thought that he got hit intentionally in the bottom of the eight inning in a tie game that the Pirates absolutely needed to win.


You're insulting his intelligence because he was offended by a racist remark? Unless Hughes is 60-years old, there's no other way that he meant it.
   27. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4233243)
'Boy' is racist now? Wow, words are dropping like flies these days.

I usually go with 'son' in any verbal altercation. That's seems to piss of everybody. I wonder how long until society somehow decides it's racist as well.
   28. cardsfanboy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4233252)
'Boy' is racist now? Wow, words are dropping like flies these days.


Boy is racist when spoken by a white guy to a black guy..... just like pretty much every other harmless words if someone wants to find offense with it.
   29. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:33 PM (#4233257)
'Boy' is racist now? Wow, words are dropping like flies these days.
Seriously? Have you never watched a single film or television show set in the Jim Crow South? I feel like, regardless of anything else, the whole racial history of "boy" is available to anyone who's ever paid the slightest bit of attention to popular culture.
   30. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4233260)
Boy isn't racist "now", it has been for awhile.
   31. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:53 PM (#4233272)
Boy used to be extremely racist, but has been fading. As shown above, some people don't even realize it was/is used that way.

To me its more of a challenge to his manhood.

Phillips' nonchalant reaction to the HBP.

Flipping the ball towards second is a dick move.
   32. Dale Sams Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4233275)
I can see how very young people would wonder about 'boy'. Don't talk about it long enough and it would disappeer along with the crackers Strother Martin stereotyped.
   33. McCoy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4233291)
"Boy" is a tough word to gauge with each new generation coming along and using it more and more in different ways. Everybody nowadays has "boys". White guys, black guys, Asians and so on and it really depends on how you use it.

I do remember a midnight thanksgiving football game between restaurants about 13 years back in which one of the dishwashers brought his crackhead friends along to play as well and they were a little too rough for an asphalt friendly. One of our sous chefs told the dishwasher that he'd better get his boys in line and one of the crackheads took offense to it. It was rather comical but the sous chef didn't mean it the way the guy took it nor did he back down.
   34. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4233298)
I've known people that didn't know that 'boy' can be a racially charged term. I've no idea how they could have lived this long and not known that, but...
   35. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 11:49 PM (#4233327)

I remember being confused when I saw this line in a movie...the reversal of racial roles didn't compute. But given stuff like that in today's culture (wait, that movie is 16 years old?!) and the fact that Jared Hughes was born in 1985 leads me to believe it's at least plausible that he didn't recognize the racial implications. Certainly disrespect was intended, and I don't think there's anything wrong with Philips for perceiving racism there - but that's why you get the guys on the phone to talk it out afterwards.
   36. zonk Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:23 AM (#4233347)
Well, since McCutchen can't seem to drag pirates over the finsh line, I'll guess he'll have to settle for bringing racial harmony to our time.... That's gotta be worth something in MVP balloting, right?
   37. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:29 AM (#4233351)
It was rather comical but the sous chef didn't mean it the way the guy took it nor did he back down.


Which was my point. Sometimes people say things that can be taken two ways, and what really matters is intent. Projecting your belief of their intent is where the conflict starts.

   38. McCoy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:13 AM (#4233366)
Projecting your belief of their intent is where the conflict starts.

And some people would argue that it doesn't matter what your intent was and the only thing that matters is how they perceived it. Something I don't agree with.

I remember being in a conversation with somebody and to try and get the point across I mentioned used their grandmother and her medicines as an example. The guy got all mad because his grandmother was dead and even though I had said nothing insulting about his grandmother he told me that he was insulted and that it didn't matter what I intended but that the only thing that matters was how he took it. At that point I told him to take it and shove it up his dead grandmother's rotting eye socket. The internet can be fun sometimes.
   39. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 03:01 AM (#4233393)
And some people would argue that it doesn't matter what your intent was and the only thing that matters is how they perceived it. Something I don't agree with.


And they are clearly wrong. Just to be blunt.

Someone can say something insensitive(as the example you gave points out) and should apologize for insensitivity(even if they didn't have knowledge, and the apology should be accepted without reservation--generally speaking) but without the intent to insult someone, the insult doesn't exist except in the fevered imagination of the perceiver. Mind you there is a reasonable limit to unintentional offensive remarks. (You can't throw out racial/sexual epithets and expect to get away with it because you weren't intending to insult, there is an acceptable cultural norm that should be followed. It's arguable that boy is one of those words, but it's also a word that has been massively desensitized over the past 30 years, to the point that intent really should matter)



   40. Flynn Posted: September 12, 2012 at 04:54 AM (#4233402)
But given stuff like that in today's culture (wait, that movie is 16 years old?!) and the fact that Jared Hughes was born in 1985 leads me to believe it's at least plausible that he didn't recognize the racial implications.


I was born in 1985. In fact, Jared Hughes is a couple months older than I am. I know damn well and have known so for a very long time that boy is not an appropriate thing to say to a black person unless they're six. Phillips is four years older, it's hardly the first insult that is going to come to mind when you're in a conflict with someone older.
   41. BFFB Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:05 AM (#4233403)
FTR it would never have crossed my mind that "boy" could be a racially charged term, it would also never cross my mind to use it as an insult.
   42. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:44 AM (#4233405)
I know damn well and have known so for a very long time that boy is not an appropriate thing to say to a black person unless they're six

"Boy" was used in the past to refer to or address any young male servant or service type person of any color. It's not only inappropriate to say to black people, it's inappropriate to say to anyone. I have no idea what color you are, or even if you're a young male, but I would never call you "boy" unless I meant to really piss you off.
   43. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 12, 2012 at 06:00 AM (#4233406)
A similar discussion ensued after the noose incident in DC, a couple or few years ago. Some here claimed to be unaware of the significance of the noose. Go figure.
   44. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 06:08 AM (#4233408)
Then again, when you're as tall as Jared Hughes everyone looks like a boy.
   45. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 12, 2012 at 07:58 AM (#4233430)
It's not only inappropriate to say to black people, it's inappropriate to say to anyone. I have no idea what color you are, or even if you're a young male, but I would never call you "boy" unless I meant to really piss you off.

If it's inappropriate to say to someone regardless of their race, then its inappropriateness is not dependent on race and it can't be "racist."
   46. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 12, 2012 at 07:59 AM (#4233433)
Sgt. Hulka calls Bill Murray "boy," several times in Stripes. "You got a problem, boy." "On your feet, boy," etc.
   47. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 12, 2012 at 08:02 AM (#4233435)
Seriously? Have you never watched a single film or television show set in the Jim Crow South? I feel like, regardless of anything else, the whole racial history of "boy" is available to anyone who's ever paid the slightest bit of attention to popular culture.

You're cheating. Either the word is applied and evaluated in context -- i.e., the literally tens of thousands (*) of ears that hear the n-word daily today -- or it's not. You can't claim "context, context, context" with the n-word and then demand that we evaluate "boy" in the 2012 North in the way it was used in the 1950s South.

(*) Millions, really, but I don't want to get hung up on the number.
   48. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 08:26 AM (#4233447)
If it's inappropriate to say to someone regardless of their race, then its inappropriateness is not dependent on race and it can't be "racist."


I agree with this. 'Boy' is an insult to anyone, same as 'son' mentioned above. If Hughes said 'boy, go pick my cotton' or something like that directly referencing slavery or JC South then it would be racist.
   49. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 12, 2012 at 08:28 AM (#4233451)
Sgt. Hulka calls Bill Murray "boy," several times in Stripes. "You got a problem, boy." "On your feet, boy," etc.

But he took off his hat!
   50. TDF, situational idiot Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:01 AM (#4233538)
Sgt. Hulka calls Bill Murray "boy," several times in Stripes. "You got a problem, boy." "On your feet, boy," etc.
And Sgt. Hulka meant to demean the recruit/private.

If it's inappropriate to say to someone regardless of their race, then its inappropriateness is not dependent on race and it can't be "racist."
But "boy" is a term used to demean blacks particularly for so long that it's both generally demeaning and pointedly racist.

You're cheating. Either the word is applied and evaluated in context -- i.e., the literally tens of thousands (*) of ears that hear the n-word daily today -- or it's not. You can't claim "context, context, context" with the n-word and then demand that we evaluate "boy" in the 2012 North in the way it was used in the 1950s South.
If I call a friend "my n!gger", it's OK (same as if I called him a "d!ck swollower"); if I call someone I don't know, or someone I don't like a "n!gger", that's the lowest of the low. That's the context - Hughes and Phillips aren't friends (Hughes had just drilled him, after all), and then called him "boy". I'd be pissed if I were Phillips, too.
   51. AROM Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4233567)
For Jared Hughes to use "boy" in that context with Phillips, that crosses the line. I side with Phillips here. It came across as racist to Phillips, and I think it would come across that way to a a hypothetical 'reasonable' observer.

If the pitcher were Jamie Moyer, or Roger Clemens making his comeback, players of all races should be reasonably expected to not take 'boy' in that way. Except Julio Franco.
   52. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM (#4233569)
And Sgt. Hulka meant to demean the recruit/private.


Nobody is saying it's not an insult, they are saying it's not a racially motivated insult unless the intent behind the words were racially motivated. Nobody doubts that someone in the dugout was trying to insult and piss off Phillips, it's whether or not it was racially motivated that is the issue.
   53. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:19 AM (#4233572)
Nobody is saying it's not an insult, they are saying it's not a racially motivated insult unless the intent behind the words were racially motivated. Nobody doubts that someone in the dugout was trying to insult and piss off Phillips, it's whether or not it was racially motivated that is the issue.

Hughes may have had no racial intent, but I don't think there's anything wrong with Phillips calling it racist if that's how he perceived it, especially given the history of the term. If Hughes had called him a "chair" and Phillips felt the same way...that would be different.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that just because I think Phillips can be justified in calling Hughes a racist or saying Hughes made a racist comment does not actually mean Hughes is racist.
   54. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:27 AM (#4233586)

I was born in 1985. In fact, Jared Hughes is a couple months older than I am. I know damn well and have known so for a very long time that boy is not an appropriate thing to say to a black person unless they're six.

Good for you. Maybe Jared Hughes didn't know that.

If it's inappropriate to say to someone regardless of their race, then its inappropriateness is not dependent on race and it can't be "racist."

Look, it's clear that Hughes was intending to piss off Phillips. To say that using "boy" in that scenario with a white person is "inappropriate" misses the point, as Hughes wasn't trying to be appropriate. The problem is, using the term with a black person carries additional racial connotations. That doesn't make Hughes a "racist". Hopefully, he didn't know the context and has now learned and apologized.
   55. zack Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4233591)
In order to get around this sensitive issue, when I want to insult a black man I just call them garçon instead.

Well, just the one really. ####### wide recievers.
   56. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM (#4233592)
Well, since McCutchen can't seem to drag pirates over the finsh line, I'll guess he'll have to settle for bringing racial harmony to our time.... That's gotta be worth something in MVP balloting, right?


There might be a greater living American than Andrew McCutchen, but I haven't heard of him/her.
   57. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4233613)
And Sgt. Hulka meant to demean the recruit/private.

Of course -- but not on the basis of the private's race. We can stipulate that the speaker wanted to demean Phillips, but that doesn't make the ocmment racial or "racist." It makes it demeaning.

If I call a friend "my n!gger", it's OK (same as if I called him a "d!ck swollower")

But "n!gger" is not exhibited, intended for, or heard by only friends in 2012. It's exhibited, intended for, and heard by, hundreds of thousands of people the speaker and exhibitor don't know -- including many white crackers.

I'd be pissed if I were Phillips, too.

Sure. Being demeaned tends to piss people off. But Phillips tweeted "#racism."
   58. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4233619)
If I call a friend "my n!gger", it's OK (same as if I called him a "d!ck swollower")

But "n!gger" is not exhibited, intended for, or heard by only friends in 2012. It's exhibited, intended for, and heard by, hundreds of thousands of people the speaker and exhibitor don't know -- including many white crackers


With an "a" or with an "er"?
   59. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4233631)
But "n!gger" is not exhibited, intended for, or heard by only friends in 2012. It's exhibited, intended for, and heard by, hundreds of thousands of people the speaker and exhibitor don't know -- including many white crackers

With an "a" or with an "er"?


I have a black cat with white paws that I alternatively have nicknamed My N---a! with an exaggerated Flavor Flav accent and Honkey Paws. This is probably going to get me in trouble one day with multiple species.
   60. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 12, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4233634)
Hughes may have had no racial intent, but I don't think there's anything wrong with Phillips calling it racist if that's how he perceived it, especially given the history of the term. If Hughes had called him a "chair" and Phillips felt the same way...that would be different.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that just because I think Phillips can be justified in calling Hughes a racist or saying Hughes made a racist comment does not actually mean Hughes is racist.


Agree. One key point - Phillips tweeted #racism, not #racist. Hughes probably didn't have a racist intent, but that doesn't mean that Phillips was out of line in pointing out that the term can be received as a racist remark.
   61. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: September 12, 2012 at 11:09 AM (#4233652)
In order to get around this sensitive issue, when I want to insult a black man I just call them garçon instead.


You think that all black men are French waiters? That's a sufficiently weird stereotype that I'm going to adopt it tout de suite.

FWIW, my guess is that this whole thing is as much a regional issue as anything else. I think that a white guy from Connecticut (like Hughes) will be less likely to be aware of the racial subtext of the word than a Southerner like Phillips would be. Hughes thought he was engaging in generic athletic trash talking, and Phillips heard a word that in his experience has a very specific intent. I don't blame Hughes for anything more than a little bit of ignorance, and I don't blame Phillips for lashing out.
   62. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 12, 2012 at 11:09 AM (#4233654)
With an "a" or with an "er"?

I'm trying to figure out what I say when I sing along or repeat/mimic ... with my accent it comes out closest to "eh," though that's not exactly it. Also depends on inflection.
   63. Flynn Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4233735)
Good for you. Maybe Jared Hughes didn't know that.


I doubt it, it's not like successive generations have become more willing to throw racial slurs around.

I think that a white guy from Connecticut (like Hughes) will be less likely to be aware of the racial subtext of the word than a Southerner like Phillips would be.


he's really from Orange County, and I don't think either place gets him off the hook. It's not like there's no black people in Connecticut or California.
   64. esseff Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4233740)
"Now I could understand your tears and your shame,
She called you 'boy' instead of your name."
   65. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4233741)
he's really from Orange County, and I don't think either place gets him off the hook. It's not like there's no black people in Connecticut or California.

California is not Orange County...
   66. Dale Sams Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM (#4233750)
If he's unaware, then he's unaware. Like Morgan Freeman said, you end racism by not talking about it.

edit: fwiw here's our timeline

Hughes may or not may have said something.
Phillips tweeted he was racially insulted
Phillips and Hughes broed up over the phone
Phillips said Hughes admitted he said something and apologized
Hughes was just on mlb radio saying he didn't apologize and that he never said anything 'racially charged'

The radio guys didn't apparently want to put Hughes on the spot and point-blank ask "Did you say 'boy'"
   67. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4233760)
With an "a" or with an "er"?

I actually do need a pencil.
   68. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4233762)
Fwiw, the two have talked and made up.
Link

Edit: or something, after reading 66.

****

I'd be disinclined to use any variant of the n-word as a pet nickname, in conversation, or otherwise. I'm not arguing that it needs to be taken out of usage - or arguing much of anything really - as I've seen a litany of good arguments on various sides of that issue -- just that my not using it is a very small price in exchange for not inadvertently hurting someone.
Even if I feel silly self censoring when I'm alone in my car, rapping along with my stereo.
   69. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4233776)

This is a slightly better article in that it has quotes from Hughes as well:

“I’ve got a ton of respect for Brandon Phillips as a man and a ballplayer. We talked and told each other how much we respect each other as men. He’s a great guy. He’s super nice.”

It’s believed Hughes used the term “boy.”

“Anything that was said (on the field) is going to stay between Brandon and myself,” Hughes said.


Phillips forgives him, so our talking about whether he's "off the hook" is pretty meaningless.
   70. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM (#4233796)
Well, since McCutchen can't seem to drag pirates over the finsh line, I'll guess he'll have to settle for bringing racial harmony to our time.... That's gotta be worth something in MVP balloting, right?

Thanks to enjoying baseball mostly through the radio and this site, I only found out Andrew McCutchen is a black guy when I watched this year's All-Star Game.
I mean, come on, that's a pretty white-sounding name, right there.

I'd also been assuming Mike Trout was a black guy, but that really was just racism on my part. Sorry, dude.
   71. JJ1986 Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:06 PM (#4233804)
Thanks to enjoying baseball mostly through the radio and this site, I only found out Andrew McCutchen is a black guy when I watched this year's All-Star Game.
I mean, come on, that's a pretty white-sounding name, right there.

I'd also been assuming Mike Trout was a black guy, but that really was just racism on my part. Sorry, dude.


Here's how you can tell. BA's draft blurbs on both guys:

McCutchen: "His athletic ability, speed and frame earn comparisons to Mets prospect Lastings Milledge"

Trout: "Trout's frame and skill set draws comparisons to Aaron Rowand"
   72. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4233807)
McCutchen: "His athletic ability, speed and frame earn comparisons to Mets prospect Lastings Milledge"

Trout: "Trout's frame and skill set draws comparisons to Aaron Rowand"


It's cliche, but it's true. The same thing happens in Europe with soccer. Every young, African striker is the next Didier Drogba.
   73. Dale Sams Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4233823)
70, I still don't believe Reggie Cleveland is white, despite having his baseball card.

soccer


Absolutely true. It doesn't even have to be a race thing. If the player is fast, can play keepy-uppsies, and nutmeg a few guys...then he's the next ####### Maradona. Nevermind that he can't shoot, pass, cross or head for ####.
   74. AROM Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4233841)
Here's how you can tell. BA's draft blurbs on both guys:

McCutchen: "His athletic ability, speed and frame earn comparisons to Mets prospect Lastings Milledge"

Trout: "Trout's frame and skill set draws comparisons to Aaron Rowand"


That is priceless. Mostly for these two potential MVPs to be compared to such pedestrian players (though at least Rowand was good for a couple of years). Prospecting is tough work. Most of the comps used go in the other direction (toolsy CF compared to Mantle or Mays, short righty compared to Oswalt/Hudson, any pitcher over 6'6 compared to Randy Johnson, etc.)
   75. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4233862)
That is priceless. Mostly for these two potential MVPs to be compared to such pedestrian players (though at least Rowand was good for a couple of years). Prospecting is tough work.

Without checking the numbers, I believe this is made funnier in McCutchen's case by the fact that Milledge was the FAR superior minor league performer (not to mention the holder of a HOF-level ZiPs). Prospecting is tough work, like you said.
   76. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4233917)
Trout: "Trout's frame and skill set draws comparisons to Aaron Rowand"

You gotta be shittin' me. The best comp for Trout is a refined Bo Jackson. The closest white comp is Kirk Gibson, but Trout's way more advanced and technically skilled than Gibby was at the same age.

I never saw anything one way or another, so I assumed Trout was black until the moment I saw a picture.
   77. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 12, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4234069)
You gotta be shittin' me. The best comp for Trout is a refined Bo Jackson.
Nah, Bo had power that made everyone else in the game look like a concave-chested nerd from an 80s film. No one hit a baseball like Bo.

For Trout, I think the proper comp of this type is Mays.
   78. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 12, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4234074)
McCutchen actually isn't a bad comp to Rowand, especially based on body type. They're both smallish but strong, built compactly, and with sloping shoulders.
   79. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4234096)
Mc Cutcheon: "This speedy, athletic, talented individual only needs to harness his God-given abilities, show more discipline, and play hard every day to be a star".

Trout:"This gutty gamer gets the most out of his limited ability by giving 110% every day. He is one of the most baseball-savvy grinders in the sport".

Aaron Rowand? Come on.
   80. Der-K: Hipster doofus Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4234146)
Rowand is clearly off (speed alone) but no one predicted the Troutpocalypse.
   81. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4234152)
Yeah, in fairness to BA, Trout was a late-first pick. He was a pretty normal million-dollar prospect, though his upside was better than most. He didn't, at the time, have the full complement of transhuman characteristics he developed in the last couple years.
   82. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4234159)

That is priceless. Mostly for these two potential MVPs to be compared to such pedestrian players


I'd rather that than consistent comparisons of minor leaguers to guys in or on their way to the Hall of Fame. We talked about it a bit in the draft thread, it sometimes gets forgotten that even having a very pedestrian MLB career can be quite difficult. Guys like Rowand, Rick Helling or Nick Punto while hardly stars are often the success stories of their draft class or minor league teams.
   83. TDF, situational idiot Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4234178)
This is a slightly better article in that it has quotes from Hughes as well:

“I’ve got a ton of respect for Brandon Phillips as a man and a ballplayer. We talked and told each other how much we respect each other as men. He’s a great guy. He’s super nice.”

It’s believed Hughes used the term “boy.”

“Anything that was said (on the field) is going to stay between Brandon and myself,” Hughes said.
On the other hand, Jon Heyman has completely different quotes from Hughes:

Hughes had hoped the matter had been closed with a private phone conversation but felt the need to defend himself after Phillips subsequently went on TV and repeated his accusation.

“I didn't say those things,'' Hughes told CBSSports.com by phone. “That's not who I am. That's not how I was raised. I didn't say anything like that.''
The curious thing? The Heyman article was posted 3 hours before the John Fay post, so you'd think if there was something BP did today it'd be part of the later (more concilliatory) post.
   84. McCoy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4234183)
Nah, Bo had power that made everyone else in the game look like a concave-chested nerd from an 80s film. No one hit a baseball like Bo.

Wasn't Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire playing in the same league as Bo at the same time?
   85. McCoy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4234187)
The curious thing? The Heyman article was posted 3 hours before the John Fay post, so you'd think if there was something BP did today it'd be part of the later (more concilliatory) post.

More like he was probably still ticked off or defensive about the whole thing earlier in the day and then later after either he figured it out himself or someone advised him how to handle it he changed his stance.
   86. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: September 12, 2012 at 06:34 PM (#4234212)
I feel oddly proud about how these two men handled the situation. It's very possible that Mr. Hughes was completely ignorant of the racial implications of the term, and it sounds like he and Mr. Phillips had a very productive conversation about their respective points of view. Mr. Phillips was especially gentlemanly about the incident; a lesser man could carry a grudge forevermore about it, but Mr. Phillips wouldn't say "I love him as a brother" if he wasn't truly sincere about forgiving him.

Also, this speaks volumes about Mr. McCutchen's maturity this year as a emerging team leader as well as a hell of a ballplayer.
   87. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 12, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4234217)
I feel oddly proud about how these two men handled the situation. It's very possible that Mr. Hughes was completely ignorant of the racial implications of the term, and it sounds like he and Mr. Phillips had a very productive conversation about their respective points of view. Mr. Phillips was especially gentlemanly about the incident; a lesser man could carry a grudge forevermore about it, but Mr. Phillips wouldn't say "I love him as a brother" if he wasn't truly sincere about forgiving him.

Also, this speaks volumes about Mr. McCutchen's maturity this year as a emerging team leader as well as a hell of a ballplayer.
Well put. This really appears to have been a good thing, two adults handling things like adults, with the help of other adults.

Although I don't think we need to follow the NYTimes style sheet when commenting on the newsblog...
   88. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: September 12, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4234223)
Thank you. But yeah, sorry, this incident has me feeling all respectful and stuff. Also, Brandon referred to him as Mr. Hughes, so I guess it was contagious.
   89. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 12, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4234277)
Wasn't Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire playing in the same league as Bo at the same time?

Yes, but Bo was still kind of unreal.
Buck O'Neil said only three guys hit with that distinctive sound off the bat: Babe Ruth, Josh Gibson, and Bo Jackson. And I guess he would know.
   90. Pirate Joe Posted: September 12, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4234346)
You're insulting his intelligence because he was offended by a racist remark? Unless Hughes is 60-years old, there's no other way that he meant it.



Just for the record, no, I did not insult his intelligence because he thought he heard a racial remark. I insulted his intelligence because he thought that he got hit intentionally in the eighth inning of a tied game that the opponents needed to win. Pretty desperately, in fact. There is no chance what so ever that Hughes hit Phillips on purpose. None. That Phillips thought it to be so, to the point that he picked up the ball and threw it in Hughes general direction, shows that Phillips either isn't the sharpest tool in the shed or was so pissed off about getting hit that he wasn't thinking straight.

   91. Gonfalon B. Posted: September 12, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4234381)
Can't you see that this man is a nit?

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