I was there, had party seats, game started 2 hours late(which was good because I went with my sister who had arranged everything and yet we got there 1 1/2 hour after the scheduled start time and almost didn't get any of the free food) It's the second game I have been with my nephew, the first game went into extra innings and ended with an Albert Pujols homerun this time no walk off for us as Braun hit the homerun. I did have to explain to the family why Braun was being booed every time he came up to bat, and also Nyjer Morgan's one at bat.

just for kicks ryan braun's current statistical standing in the nl

batting average--6th
obp---7th
slugging--1st
ops--2nd if you count votto and i don't want to argue with reds fans so fine it's 2nd
runs--2nd
hits--5th
total bases--1st (pretty healthy lead)
home runs--1st
rbi--1st (isn't it crazy that chase headley is second playing in that ballpark???)
extra base hits--1st (jay bruce is second, that seems kind of amazing as well)
silly stat--power/speed braun is first

so this will be the fifth straight season braun has played in 150 or more games (most likely he won't miss any more games this season). fourth straight hitting over .300. every season slugs .500 or better and possibly his second straight slugging title. fourth straight season of driving in and scoring 100 plus runs. according to bbref's war he's the only guy in the top ten for total war meaning including defense every year since 2009. that's four years steals bases and does it pretty successfully. defense continues to improve.

i know folks don't like him and yes, yes i know a good many folks have branded him a cheat and that everything he has done is a big fraud

but if you were going to point to someone who is the best player in the nl i think you have to start with braun. he has demonstrated a consistently high level of performance while playing a lot and you can't point to a lot of players who can match it.

thus endeth the fan boy post

cfb

did you point to the accusation of the peds or just that cards fans hate him because he's the other team's best player (which is behavior by all fans around baseball)? because by this time in the season the booing in most parks has died away as it relates to peds. at least according to folks around the team. the only people who bring it up now are opposing team announcers

but if you were going to point to someone who is the best player in the nl i think you have to start with braun. he has demonstrated a consistently high level of performance while playing a lot and you can't point to a lot of players who can match it.

Agreed. I personally don't care one whit about any of the nonsense that happened in regards to ped, so that doesn't deter me from liking him. The guy is a heck of a ball player, and would be in the MVP conversation, regardless of his team standings, if it wasn't for that PED nonsense.

I still think it's funny that people were trying to say Votto has taken over as the best player in the NL. You have to take that title away from Braun first.

did you point to the accusation of the peds or just that cards fans hate him because he's the other team's best player (which is behavior by all fans around baseball)? because by this time in the season the booing in most parks has died away as it relates to peds. at least according to folks around the team. the only people who bring it up now are opposing team announcers

I pointed to the PED usage, until this year I don't think Cardinal fans had an issue with Braun (Nyjer on the other hand, he'll be booed in St louis for the next decade) My sister goes "he doesn't look like a user" I explained that most of the people caught don't look like users.

Generally speaking St Louis doesn't boo the other teams best player unless he has said or did something to "earn" boos(and I'm not talking about clutch performances against us)

WAR Last three years:

Braun: 19.1
Votto: 17.7
McCutcheon: 15
Michael Bourn: 14.3

I think I would take Votto going forwards, mostly because he's been quite a bit better when healthy. Braun is probably a good choice as well.

Braun's consistency and durability is a big deal, though.

He and Tulo were really close in WAR coming in to this season, but Tulo's 2nd lost season has caused him to fall behind.

I think I would take Votto going forwards, mostly because he's been quite a bit better when healthy. Braun is probably a good choice as well.

Health is a skill, I'm not sure Votto has it. I'll take McCutchen personally. I'll also take Kemp over Bourn. (There is no way that a guy posting 155 ops+ in centerfield is as bad as war indicates he's been)

mind you, there is no way Bourn is anywhere near as good as war indicates he is. There is something truly funky going on with War's defensive numbers.

votto is 2 months older than braun, is slower and battles an anxiety issue (though it hasn't flared up in some while)

i like braun's chances

Health is a skill, I'm not sure Votto has it.

My lord, you make it sound like he's made of glass. Votto has averaged 148 games a season through his first 4 years in the majors. 1 trip to the DL and now he can't stay healthy?

I don't think Votto is the best player in the NL. Right now I'd take McCutchen. When I've let my inner-fan-boy go around here, I've claimed Votto was the best hitter in the NL for the past 3 years, but clearly Braun is in that conversation.

My lord, you make it sound like he's made of glass. Votto has averaged 148 games a season through his first 4 years in the majors. 1 trip to the DL and now he can't stay healthy?

I don't think Votto is the best player in the NL. Right now I'd take McCutchen. When I've let my inner-fan-boy go around here, I've claimed Votto was the best hitter in the NL for the past 3 years, but clearly Braun is in that conversation.

He plays a position that the best of the best routinely post over 150+ games played (Fielder, Pujols, Tex, Adrian Gonzalez, Miggy. etc) Where if they play less than 155 games in a season it's a shock. Yet Votto has only once exceeded 150 games in a season ... so yes he's not JD Drew, but he is an elite level first baseman who can't stay on the field.

hoke

that is disingenuous. votto sat out about 3 weeks in 2009 due to the anxiety issue.

no, i am not claiming he is made of glass or any such nonsense

just pointing out the facts.

and yes, i know it was triggered by the death of his dad. that is understood.

but it still happened

Yeah, I don't think many folks realize how "old" Votto is.

If you squint hard enough, you can find some things to be "concerned" about with Braun. His HR/FB took a big jump this year -- looks flukish. Also his K-rate has spiked back to 2008 levels -- still perfectly OK by today's standards but it's an odd shift. Of course the Ks may be the conscious cost of greater ISO which is a trade you're always happy to make.

Braun's BB/PA by year:

2007: 29/492 = 0.059
2008: 42/663 = 0.063
2009: 57/708 = 0.081
2010: 56/685 = 0.082
2011: 58/629 = 0.092
2012: 55/576 = 0.095

Not sure if there's a hidden point in #15 but:

Braun's UIBB/PA by year:

.057
.058
.079
.080
.089
.075

In 2011, he had 2 IBB; this year he has 13.

walt, you had braun washed up as a singles hitter in 2010 so pardon me if i don't lend any of your braun observations much credence

I never said any such thing HW and you know it.

What I said about Mr. Braun was that early in his career he K'd too much to sustain those numbers. I said if he wanted to sustain those rookie year OPS+ numbers he would have to drop the K-rate. He did. I said that if he dropped the K-rate then, in all likelihood, his ISO would drop. It did every year until 2011. This year the ISO is up even more ... as are the Ks.

If you go back to those post-rookie threads (or possibly a year later), I'm pretty sure you will find me expecting him to post on-contact numbers around 360 on BA and about 720 on SLG. His numbers since his rookie year are 384/691. Yep, I was way off.

This year, on-contact, he's hitting 400/775. Those numbers are almost certainly unsustainable -- Manny is the only RHB who comes to mind who was able to sustain at that level for a long time but I may have forgotten someone. That mean that, unless he drops the K-rate again, he likely won't be able to sustain these numbers either. Even if you give him last year's on-contact SLG (715) he loses almost 50 points off his SLG.

But, as I said, maybe he's tweaked his approach yet again and is sacrificing some contact for more power. I still don't think he can maintain 400/775 but 380/760 certainly seems doable. Although, if you had to pick one hitter to be the next Manny, it would be Braun (and no, that's not a PED swipe, that's a "he hits a lot like Manny" compliment).

If you squint hard enough, you can find some things to be "concerned" about with Braun.

Squinting really hard to find things to be "concerned" about is what this place is all about.