5:1 K:BB ratio in the minors-Braves don't consider this guy the heir to Chipper do they?

No, it is a greater honor for me.

The deal keeps him away from the Phillies, which was probably a factor in the trade.

Anyone know why the Braves moved Hoover to the pen last year?

Iffy third and fourth pitches, fb played up in the pen, braves have a lot of high level sp options.
IMO, most orgs would've kept him in the rotation.

Francisco is a lot like EE, but lefty, w a better glove, and a bit less bat. Seems to me like a fair trade, if Francisco's work ethic gets in order.

Is "EE" Edwin Encarnacion? If so, I don't agree. Encarnacion was a 1B/3B tweener, hitting well enough for a 3B but unable to hack it defensively. He was probably a better all-around hitting prospect than Francisco, who's K/BB ratio is just about unprecedented. The Pedro Cerano HRs are fun to watch but don't make him a great prospect. And it's arguable whether he can field 3B well enough to stick.

who's K/BB ratio is just about unprecedented. The Pedro Cerano HRs are fun to watch but don't make him a great prospect.

So, Willy Mo Pena part two?

I don't mind taking a chance of Juan Francisco - hopefully he gets more PAs than some combination of Hinske/Diaz/Jack Wilson does. He's got big power and is only 24, give him a chance to see if he can improve his plate discipline and be a solid hitter. The Braves probably won't miss Hoover, even if he does turn out to be a serviceable SP, which he very well may.

Seems like a good deal for the Reds, who weren't going to use Francisco anyway and need pitching. Not sure what the Braves want with a lottery ticket like Francisco, though.

No, it is a greater honor for me.

You must be Juan Francisco's sister.

Not sure what the Braves want with a lottery ticket like Francisco, though.

Well, Chipper did announce his retirement. The expectation is that Prado will move to 3B next year, but taking a flier on a power bat isn't a bad idea. Hoover isn't a big loss to the Braves.

I like the trade. I doubt that Francisco will amount to anything, and I doubt that Hoover will either. But both teams got something that could help them out this year, and into the future, without giving up something that they needed.

EE is Edwin Encarnacion and I stand by my earlier post.

Francisco's range has been criticized and the '11 BA handbook noted that first may be his best position. Also, he's been very error prone until his last two minor league seasons. (Fwiw, ZiPS isn't fully convinced and projects an error rate 39% above big league average*.)
As for his bat, the k/w ratio is a huge issue but he's been productive despite it. ZiPS projects a 104 OPS+ this year (in highly platooned big league play, he's at 109 - which is the same as ZiPS projection for EE this season).
They also have somewhat similar builds (and, of course, come from the same system).

One more note: Emeigh (who goes to Mudcat games and has seen a lot of this guy) once noted (presuming that I remember correctly) that everybody seemed really down on Francisco when he played there (teammates, fanbase, etc...), more so than with any other player in like a decade of watching the team and that clubhouse seemed to pick up once he left.
So, there's that.

In any case, I definitely like this deal for Cincy, Hoover is a pretty good haul for this sort of situation and have no issue with Atlanta doing it either (in the vein of oi!'s comment).



* Zips on JF at third: Av/139, on EE Fr/125. I think EE is worse than that - Francisco a bit less error prone but that his range is on the fair / average border.

No, it is a greater honor for me.

You must be Juan Francisco's sister.

How can Old Yastrzemski be younger than Young Yastrzemski?

Prado has been assumed as the heir to Chipper at 3B, but the Braves may want the option to trade him before he gets more expensive, or someone else to cover 3B in the event Prado doesn't rebound this year.

And even if Prado is 3B of the future, the Braves need somebody to give Chipper some time off and cover for a Chipper injury should it happen this year. Francisco seems a pretty good guy to add to the backup 1B/3B/LF mix.

I assume the Reds know/think/hope Rolen is completely healthy and ready to go for ~135 this year. Not that Francisco is a great answer if a 3b void is created by a Rolen injury/ineffectiveness, but he would at least be an option with a power bat. I guess a combo of Cairo/Yanish/Frazier can fake it at 3b if needed. Sometime soon the Miguel Cairo magic is going to run out.

No, it is a greater honor for me.

You must be Juan Francisco's sister.


How can Old Yastrzemski be younger than Young Yastrzemski?

I save string

And even if Prado is 3B of the future, the Braves need somebody to give Chipper some time off and cover for a Chipper injury should it happen this year. Francisco seems a pretty good guy to add to the backup 1B/3B/LF mix.

Juan Francisco is better than Brooks Conrad. It's that simple, really. He is another option for the post-Chipper world next year, but that's not his role this year. This year he's the backup 3B/LF and a LH power hitter off the bench.

The Braves now have four options to replace Chipper; Prado, if they want to pay him the bigger arb/FA number he'll get soon; Francisco; Joey Terdoslavich (moved back to 3B this spring and sent to AA to work the glove); Edward Salcedo (moved off of SS to 3B a year or so ago.)

Wheat. Fields of Wheat. Cream of Wheat. Zack Wheat.

Ray Narleski's dead, they're talking about wheat.

Joey Terdoslavich

Sorry, no way a guy with that name is any good.

One more note: Emeigh (who goes to Mudcat games and has seen a lot of this guy) once noted (presuming that I remember correctly) that everybody seemed really down on Francisco when he played there (teammates, fanbase, etc...), more so than with any other player in like a decade of watching the team and that clubhouse seemed to pick up once he left.

That's accurate. I hang out quite a bit with some of the booster club members, who do little things for the players (give them birthday cakes, throw team parties, and the like) and almost to a man they disliked Francisco, more than any other player who has been here.

Not that this means anything, but I saw Francisco dive for a ball exactly once in the entire time he played in Carolina and the handful of games that I saw him play in AAA when the Bats came to Durham. While I don't know that he actually doesn't care about defense, he *acts* as though he doesn't care - he just doesn't show any effort out there at all - and there were a lot of balls that went by him that even the group of casual fans with whom I sit thought he should have converted (or at least given more of an effort on). The difference when he left was like night and day.

-- MWE

As someone who can only play 3B, Francisco created a problem for the Reds' roster. Being out of options, they couldn't send him down without exposing him to waivers, but he wasn't worth a roster spot solely as Rolen's caddie. Frazier is likely about as good of a hitter, but is much more versitile (and better) with the glove.

Sorry, no way a guy with that name is any good.

If he sticks at 3B and hits like he did in A+, he's solid.

he *acts* as though he doesn't care - he just doesn't show any effort out there at all

he also came to camp this sprint out-of-shape and hadn't properly rehabbed his calf injury from last season (he was still hurt early in camp)