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Thursday, May 18, 2017

Braves pitcher Eric O’Flaherty: I’ve seen it from Jose Bautista too much

Benches emptied in the Blue Jays-Braves game Wednesday night after Toronto slugger Jose Bautista homered to left field, stood at home plate and stared toward pitcher Eric O’Flaherty before flipping the bat away with a towering toss in Atlanta.

Jace Peterson said something to Bautista as he rounded first, and Braves catcher Kurt Suzuki was waiting for Bautista when he touched home.

No punches were thrown, but O’Flaherty didn’t mince words about Bautista’s actions.

“That’s something making the game tough to watch,’’ the pitcher said, referring to previous home run celebrations by the Toronto slugger. “It’s turned into look-at-me stuff. He hit a home run with [the Braves holding] a five-run lead and throws the bat around. I’m just tired of it. I’ve seen it from him enough.’‘....

“I’m surprised he’s ready to fight after last year,’’ O’Flaherty said with a disdainful chuckle.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 18, 2017 at 09:22 AM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays, braves, eric o'flaherty, jose bautista, unwritten rules of baseball

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   1. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 18, 2017 at 10:11 PM (#5459081)
Eric O'Flaherty must have dirt on every GM's sexual pecadillos. How that guy has a job when he's the worst ####### LOOGY in the history of baseball astonishes me. He's a reliever with -2.3 WAR in 72 IP since the start of 2015. He gets rocked harder on the regular than Bautista ever was by Odor's dirty sucker punch.

#### that dude. He can eat my ass, except he'd probably groove a fastball while doing it and give up another home run.
   2. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 18, 2017 at 10:17 PM (#5459083)
Btw, give O'Flaherty 162 IP at his rate of production over the last three years, and he has the worst season by a pitcher in the history of baseball. He's close to 1973 Steve Blass bad, and on top of that he's almost always facing lefties who he's brought in to get out.

He must have a lot of time thinking up things to say in the press conference when opposing batters are rounding the bases.
   3. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: May 19, 2017 at 12:16 AM (#5459115)
That’s something making the game tough to watch,’’ “It’s turned into listen-to-me stuff. He's a reliever with -2.3 WAR in 72 IP since the start of 2015. I’m just tired of it. I’ve heard it from ALL OF THESE WHINY PITCHERS enough.’‘....


It cannot be said enough...if you do not want the batter to flip the bat, do not give up the homerun. Pitchers get pumped on the mound when a fielder makes a great play (as well they should), should batters be offended by that?
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: May 19, 2017 at 12:21 AM (#5459117)
both can be true
   5. PreservedFish Posted: May 19, 2017 at 06:59 AM (#5459145)
It cannot be said enough...if you do not want the batter to flip the bat, do not give up the homerun.


This line of argument has never held water for me. People hit homeruns, it's part of the game, and it happens to the best pitchers too.
   6. Greg Pope Posted: May 19, 2017 at 09:13 AM (#5459177)

This line of argument has never held water for me. People hit homeruns, it's part of the game, and it happens to the best pitchers too.


Agree. The argument makes no sense. Hitting a home run does not give you license to do whatever you want. I think that having an opinion on what is sportsmanlike is perfectly fine and doesn't depend on whether a particular batter got the best of you in a particular instance.

Now, there's certainly disagreements on what is proper behavior. If you think a great play on either side should be celebrated with fist pumps and bat flips, OK. If you think players should act like they've been there before, OK. There's room for debate

But the argument that you can't complain if you give up the homer is just stupid.
   7. Ithaca2323 Posted: May 19, 2017 at 10:02 AM (#5459201)
I was supportive of Bautista's flip against Texas. Given the game situation, I had no problem with it.

I also have no issue with people taking exception to this one. It's stupid watching defensive backs celebrate big hits with their team down 20 in the 4th quarter, ditto NBA players doing it with dunks. Patrick Roy ripped one of his players for celebrating a goal down 4-0 in the third. I'm not sure this is a Bautista issue or even a baseball issue. It's a "You're getting killed" issue, which is pretty universally mocked by everyone.
   8. Rennie's Tenet Posted: May 19, 2017 at 10:11 AM (#5459206)
Throwing heavy wooden objects near other people is stupid. It has nothing to do with whether celebration is part of the game.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 19, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5459323)
I was supportive of Bautista's flip against Texas. Given the game situation, I had no problem with it.

Definitely loved the one that doomed the Rangers. He earned that one.

I also have no issue with people taking exception to this one. It's stupid watching defensive backs celebrate big hits with their team down 20 in the 4th quarter, ditto NBA players doing it with dunks. Patrick Roy ripped one of his players for celebrating a goal down 4-0 in the third. I'm not sure this is a Bautista issue or even a baseball issue. It's a "You're getting killed" issue, which is pretty universally mocked by everyone.

Given the game situation here, I can't see why the reaction wouldn't have been derisive mockery rather than taking offense. I'm not sure we're really disagreeing about this.
   10. zack Posted: May 19, 2017 at 12:28 PM (#5459337)
Patrick Roy ripped one of his players for celebrating a goal down 4-0 in the third.

If rougeass Roy is again' it, the rest of us should probably be fer it.
   11. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 19, 2017 at 12:41 PM (#5459343)
Now, there's certainly disagreements on what is proper behavior. If you think a great play on either side should be celebrated with fist pumps and bat flips, OK. If you think players should act like they've been there before, OK. There's room for debate
They're playing a game. Celebrating small victories should be acceptable.

And to me, it's the hypocrisy - it's OK for pitchers to pump their fists, scream, whatever after a big out, but a hit a homer and you're supposed to just drop your head and circle the bases stoically?
   12. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: May 19, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5459352)
That this is textbook hypocrisy is my entire point. The defense feels entitled to celebrate good plays. Regardless of the score of the game. Correct me if I am wrong. By the logic being presented here, a great catch shouldn't be celebrated by a team losing the game, despite it being a great play. Nonsense. Likewise, a homerun is quite literally the best offensive play that can be made. Therefore it has every right to be celebrated that a great defensive play has.

   13. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 19, 2017 at 01:12 PM (#5459377)
That this is textbook hypocrisy is my entire point. The defense feels entitled to celebrate good plays. Regardless of the score of the game. Correct me if I am wrong. By the logic being presented here, a great catch shouldn't be celebrated by a team losing the game, despite it being a great play. Nonsense. Likewise, a homerun is quite literally the best offensive play that can be made. Therefore it has every right to be celebrated that a great defensive play has.


These really aren't the same things. Defensive teams don't take umbrage at a home run hitter's teammates celebrating the dinger, which is the equivalent of the pitcher celebrating the great play of a fielder. Hell, no one really gets upset if a hitter is simply excited about hitting his own home run.

What big league players get bent about is when the impression is given that the opposing player is showing up the opposition in his celebration, either with a staredown or a exaggerated bat flip or a 45-second home run trot. Or, as a counterexample, when Derek Lowe did his crotch move at the end of the Red Sox-A's playoff series however many years back. I'm sure Brian Wilson and others have gotten barked at plenty by pissed-off batsmen through the years.

In the specific case of Bautista, his bat flips and mannerisms generally appear to be largely a #### You to the opposition. They're often lacking much, or any, of the joy we come to associate with celebrations. I think that's one reason he seems to be particularly bothersome to his foes.

Are pitchers more sensitive to this stuff than hitters? Yeah, it seems that way. But baseball players of all types have been finding ridiculous reasons to get mad at the opposition about for generations now, and it's not limited to just one position.

   14. Rickey! No. You move. Posted: May 19, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5459398)
Given the game situation here, I can't see why the reaction wouldn't have been derisive mockery rather than taking offense. I'm not sure we're really disagreeing about this.


Derisive mockery is a form of taking offense. Everything from the game tape indicates the Braves responded with a form of mockery. Peterson at 1B, then Suzuki at home.
   15. Ithaca2323 Posted: May 19, 2017 at 01:34 PM (#5459404)
By the logic being presented here, a great catch shouldn't be celebrated by a team losing the game, despite it being a great play.


I mean, you can celebrate a TD you score to make it 31-7, you can flip your bat down 8-4, you can celebrate a third period goal that makes your team trail 4-1. The reaction to these sorts of things seems to be universally mocked, as they should be, IMO. YMMV
   16. Greg K Posted: May 19, 2017 at 01:41 PM (#5459412)
I think "celebrate" is the wrong word to use in this case. Bautista was saying \"#### you guys for quick-pitching my team-mate", the 1B and catcher responded with some kind of "dude, you're being a douche", and Bautista replied to Suzuki by apologizing.
   17. bigglou115 Posted: May 19, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5459416)
Yeah, this one was different in a couple ways. It was pretty obviously related to Pillar as 16 pointed out, which is dumb enough since the quick pitch was legal and Pillar made a big enough ass out of himself.

But also, it felt really inappropriate given that the lone bright spot on the Atlanta season was currently getting x rays on his wrist and everyone had a bad feeling about it. It was just made worse by the fact it was completely unnecessary given the game situation.
   18. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 19, 2017 at 01:47 PM (#5459417)
Given the game situation here, I can't see why the reaction wouldn't have been derisive mockery rather than taking offense. I'm not sure we're really disagreeing about this.

Derisive mockery is a form of taking offense.


That's a new one on me. I always thought it to be nothing more than a laughing reaction to someone making a fool of himself, which Bautista was doing in this case.

Everything from the game tape indicates the Braves responded with a form of mockery. Peterson at 1B, then Suzuki at home.

I'll take your word on that, since the last time I can remember seeing the Braves play was in the 2003 NLDS.
   19. Mike Webber Posted: May 19, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5459431)
He gets rocked harder on the regular than Bautista ever was by Odor's dirty sucker punch.



This is not a sucker punch. A sucker who got punched, yes.

When a guy has shoved you away, and you then step towards him, and he flattens you, you have not been sucker punched.

from wikipedia.
A sucker punch (American English), also known as a coward punch, one hit punch, king hit (Australian English), or cold-#### (American English), is a punch made without warning, allowing no time for preparation or defense on the part of the recipient. The term is generally used in situations where the way in which the punch has been delivered is considered unfair or unethical. In practice, this often includes punches delivered from behind.


   20. bigglou115 Posted: May 19, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5459452)
@19, I think there's some room for using the spirit of the term over it's exact definition. Bautista obviously wasn't expecting a punch, which given the general nature of these things in baseball shouldn't be a surprise.

I'm not sold either way, but I think there's room for argument. On the one hand, you shove someone you should probably be ready for a punch. On the other, for every hundred shoves in baseball I don't think we get one punch, and Bautista obviously felt this was one of those times. Whether he was justified in relying on that assumption is, I think, the question.
   21. Greg K Posted: May 19, 2017 at 02:50 PM (#5459472)
Straight up punches seem pretty rare in baseball fights...but when you find yourself squared off with a guy, in fighting stance, you have to be aware that punches are on the table.
   22. Omineca Greg Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5459502)
I love it when punches are on the table.

It means the party is about to start.

Most of the parties I go to are BYOB, so I feel lucky if there's even one punch. I don't move in the rarified air you guys do, obviously.

And a straight up punch? Like pure liquor? Oh man, I've never even heard of that. Once I was at a party and they had a bottle of Everclear out, with a tin cup, and I thought we were putting on the Ritz! But it turned out they were only saltines. Boy, I feel like trash.
   23. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5459508)
Its a little ##### punch when you punch a guy and have your big brother tie him up before he can respond.

   24. Greg K Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5459509)
And a straight up punch? Like pure liquor?

Where I come from the only "straight up punch" is the pan-galactic gargoblaster. But I mean...it's pan-galactic, so I'd have thought they have them in BC too.
   25. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:26 PM (#5459512)
Straight up punches seem pretty rare in baseball fights...but when you find yourself squared off with a guy, in fighting stance, you have to be aware that punches are on the table.


OK, for some reason, reading this gave me a vision of these guys fighting in the backroom of a saloon in the 1890's, John L. Sullivan style, with dialogue to match.

"Sir, I take umbrage at the verbal derision you hurl at me! If it is, indeed, fisticuffs you desire, they shall be in the offing!"

"Sir, if you raise your hands to me, you shall be soundly thrashed!"




We cranks are wondering why Mr. Bautista feels the overwhelming desire to fling his cudgel so...
   26. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5459518)
21 & 22 are just the warm-up for the new BBTF special, "The Two Gregs," right?
   27. Greg K Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:33 PM (#5459529)
21 & 22 are just the warm-up for the new BBTF special, "The Two Gregs," right?

Early preview of rehearsals.
   28. The Good Face Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5459532)
OK, for some reason, reading this gave me a vision of these guys fighting in the backroom of a saloon in the 1890's, John L. Sullivan style, with dialogue to match.


Here you go.
   29. dlf Posted: May 19, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5459537)
I can never find Arcturan mega-gin when I need it. And I think the suntiger tooth adds too much bite.

   30. Omineca Greg Posted: May 19, 2017 at 04:43 PM (#5459615)
Don't forget the Old Janx Spirit. We don't get that at the BCLDB. They know me there, not that I drink all that much, but when I do it's usually something other than Molson Canadian and Polar Ice. One time I reamed them out for not ordering enough Aperol. "C'mon guys, get your act together, Summer is only six weeks long and I'm sure as hell not going to be spritzing after the first hard frost!" The clerk had never heard of spritzing, and I think she thought it was some kind of sexual innuendo, and it does mean "spray a liquid in quick short bursts" as well as "take in a delicious Italian aperitif". But luckily she didn't know either definition, so I am still welcome where the winos go.

Actually, we do have a type of hillbilly punch here, it's called Yuckaflux. The host of the party buys a plastic garbage can from Canadian Tire, and two big blocks of ice (if you live near a good Canadian Tire you can get the ice there, bit if you live by a bad Canadian Tire, you may have to go to Petro Can too. Which sucks, because Canadian Tire has a loyalty program that involves giving you an alternative currency, and all Petro Can gives you is a free car wash). Anyway, the host of the party puts the garbage can with the block ice in it next to the television where the hockey game is going to be shown, and as guests arrive at the party, they make an offering to the Yuckaflux, by pouring some of their wine, beer, or liquor into the garbage can. In this way, people who come to the party without booze, because they are too poor, or underage, or their probation doesn't allow it, or they're banned from the BCLDB for being too sexy (almost happened to me!) can still get hammered. In the Omineca, we are very community minded. For example, if someone offers Extra Old Stock to the Yuckaflux, someone will say "Sod off you tosser!" and someone else will step in and say, "We don't use language like that here, you little homophobic limey prick" and the little limey will say, "I'm sorry, I meant to say, 'that is an unfortunate beverage you are adding to the Yuckaflux dear sir, may I ask you to reconsider?'", and then everybody will hug and shake hands, and become friends, at the same time saving the Yuckaflux from tasting like garbage, the impression of which would only be reinforced by drinking it from an actual garbage can. I'm quite socially conscious, maybe not a SJW, not all the way anyway, so I always offer something really nice to the Yuckaflux. Last time I poured half a bottle of Vana Tallinn in there. That's a nice Estonian liqueur, I figured Estonians are a sharing people so probably their drink would be compatible with the Yuckaflux, and everyone agreed it was one of the best Yuckafluxs ever.

Did they do an episode about this on Trailer Park Boys? Sometimes I introduce an idea that I think will be new to everybody, but it turns out they've already heard about it from that show. Which is good, because a lot of foreigners have only stereotypical impressions of Canada, so it's good they get shown the real deal.
   31. Greg K Posted: May 19, 2017 at 05:38 PM (#5459674)
For example, if someone offers Extra Old Stock to the Yuckaflux, someone will say "Sod off you tosser!"

I had to check to make sure you weren't referring to Molson Stock, which is a lovely beer! I've had the good fortune to never come across Extra Old Stock before.

It does remind me of the time I went to the Beer Store (a particular foible of Ontario wherein the only way you can buy beer in the province is to go to a government establishment, ask the government employee for a particular beer, and he goes in back to the secret warehouse to find it for you). I asked for a two-four of OV and the young man behind the counter thought I had ordered 24 bottles of OE (Olde English). Needless to say he was half-way to reporting me to the authorities before I corrected him.
   32. cardsfanboy Posted: May 19, 2017 at 09:13 PM (#5459791)
It does remind me of the time I went to the Beer Store (a particular foible of Ontario wherein the only way you can buy beer in the province is to go to a government establishment, ask the government employee for a particular beer, and he goes in back to the secret warehouse to find it for you). I asked for a two-four of OV and the young man behind the counter thought I had ordered 24 bottles of OE (Olde English). Needless to say he was half-way to reporting me to the authorities before I corrected him.


It's funny how alcohol is treated differently everywhere. I grew up in Missouri, and as a kid,(not me, but adults) could only buy 3.5 alcohol content beer on Sundays...and it was weird to me, that they had a different alcohol content beer for a specific day... I still think I imagined that, because something that stupid could not be an actual law. I got older and turned 21 and began drinking and in Missouri, if you want to buy beer or any alcohol, you can buy it pretty much anywhere you want, any time between 6am-1:30 Am..(slightly different hours on Sunday) at gas stations, grocery stores... wherever you can buy something, there is a good chance they sell beer. (only weird exception is that if they have bottomless strippers, you can't buy beer there, topless you are good to go) I had a travelling job a couple of years ago, and basically hit every southern state from North Carolina to Texas for at least a couple of weeks or a month... and every state had weird ass rules (half of Texas is a dry town, or you have to pay for a membership to a restaurant to be served alcohol, other places alcohol was availability was severely limited etc...that you just didn't know what the options were.... if you think conceal carry laws are difficult to understand from town to town, that is nothing like alcohol sales)
   33. Greg K Posted: May 19, 2017 at 10:11 PM (#5459829)
It's funny how alcohol is treated differently everywhere. I grew up in Missouri, and as a kid,(not me, but adults) could only buy 3.5 alcohol content beer on Sundays

My parents tell stories of Ontario in the 1960s/1970s where bars could only sell alcohol on Sundays if it was accompanying a meal. So bars would stock cheese sandwiches they could place on your table while you had a pint, just in case the authorities came in. These sandwiches would be in rotation for a few days at a time, so it was not advisable to try and eat one.

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