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Friday, January 24, 2014

Braves re-sign Freddy Garcia

Freddy retired in my Baseball Pro 98 league this offseason with exactly the same career record as his real life counterpart.  Pretty awesome. 

With Fredi’s tendency to shred arms, it appears it will not last.

Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 24, 2014 at 02:10 PM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, free agents

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   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 24, 2014 at 02:28 PM (#4645766)
Will he wear a White Sox cap or a Braves cap in Cooperstown?
   2. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: January 24, 2014 at 02:50 PM (#4645794)
And Amaro throws his chair...
   3. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 24, 2014 at 02:51 PM (#4645795)
In December 2006 the Phillies traded stalled prospect Gavin Floyd and prospect Gio Gonzalez for veteran starter Freddy Garcia. As soon as Garcia started pitching for the Phillies it became obvious that he was seriously injured and his Philadelphia career was over before it began (much like a certain basketball player last year). Quite possibly his professional baseball career was over. Meanwhile Floyd instantly became a good pitcher, getting 5 seasons of double-digit wins for the White Sox.

Now it looks like Freddy Garcia might be in the majors after Gavin Floyd is gone. Just to mock us further, both are on the Braves now.
   4. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4645835)
He has been in MLB for 15 years (16 if he pitches next year) and his highest WAR was in his rookie season. I wonder if there are any other players who can say that.
   5. flournoy Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4645841)
Fernando Valenzuela probably would have if 1981 had been a full season. His 4.8 WAR prorates to 7.07 over a 162 game season, compared to his second best total of 5.4. Ichiro Suzuki's rookie year was his second best.
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4645844)
Ichiro Suzuki's rookie year was his second best.

so was Vada Pinson"s
   7. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4645846)
Cesar Cedeno's second year was his best.

   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4645848)
He has been in MLB for 15 years (16 if he pitches next year) and his highest WAR was in his rookie season. I wonder if there are any other players who can say that.


Using BBRef WAR:
Benito Santiago
Tom Brunansky
Dusty Baker
Fernando Valenzuela twice matched his Rookie year, but never surpassed it

Eric Hinske is on his way if he can hang around.
   9. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4645852)
Mike Trout in another 14 years.
   10. puck Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4645855)
Interesting that Garcia's rookie year WAR is better than his 2001 WAR when in 2001 he had a better ERA+ (135 to 122) and pitched 37.1 more innings. Supposedly there was a 0.96 runs/9 difference in defense.
   11. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4645857)
He has been in MLB for 15 years (16 if he pitches next year) and his highest WAR was in his rookie season. I wonder if there are any other players who can say that.


Using BBRef WAR, 15+ seasons, with the caveat that I went from first year in MLB rather than rookie season. (So Santiago's 65 PA cup of coffee was his "rookie season" to my script.)

Player        Rookie WAR  Years
Bobby Adams        2.61    15
Jerry Hairston
,Sr1.28    15
Grady Hatton       3.17    16
Curt Davis         8.26    15
Freddy Garcia      5.45    17
Tom Griffin        3.07    15
Jason Isringhausen 2.97    17
Don Larsen         2.60    17
Dale Murray        2.63    15
Kid Nichols       13.10    16
Dan Plesac         3.19    20
Don Robinson       3.38    17
Dick Tidrow        3.29    15
Brett Tomko        3.01    17 
   12. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 24, 2014 at 03:56 PM (#4645863)
Eric Hinske is on his way if he can hang around.

wow--almost half of his 12 year lifetime WAR came in his rookie season
   13. Sweatpants Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:00 PM (#4645867)
If rookie seasons that weren't debuts count, then Dick Allen qualifies.
   14. Colin Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:23 PM (#4645884)
What is meant by "Fredi's tendency to shred arms"? Sure, he was guilty of that in 2011, but the last two years he's been much more judicious about his use of relievers. His starting pitcher usage certainly doesn't seem excessive. He seems to have learned his lesson.
   15. Traderdave Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:25 PM (#4645886)
Eric Hinske is on his way if he can hang around.


I'm probably just one of many primates who thought Hinske was out of MLB a few years ago....
   16. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4645890)
You are honestly unsure of what I meant? I hope you are right that he learned his lesson although I doubt it.
   17. Colin Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4645900)
I figured that was what you meant, but after 2011 saw Venters and Kimbrel fade down the stretch he publicly expressed that he would be scaling back his reliever usage, and he followed that up with a clear change in usage patterns, as you can see by looking at reliever usage in 2012/13. So, I think that tendency is behind us by now.
   18. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4645905)
I'm probably just one of many primates who thought Hinske was out of MLB a few years ago....


He is now...
   19. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:49 PM (#4645910)
double post, sorry
   20. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 24, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4645911)
Kind of odd to use "shredding arms" to describe a manager whose entire career has been in the era when no starter ever goes more than 110 innings.

Anyway, Gonzalez's problem is the exact opposite of the traditional "shredding arms" pattern. He takes the starting pitcher out too early in the game.

Thus instead of ruining the careers of Mark Prior and Kerry Wood, he supposedly ruined the career of Jonny Venters and Eric O'Flaherty by having them pitch one inning two days in a row too often. Doesn't seem quite so unconscionable.
   21. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 24, 2014 at 05:00 PM (#4645916)
Fredi could #### gold and covert it directly into free agent stars for the Braves and Robert would find a reason to complain about him.
   22. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 24, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4645941)
I was thinking of Beachy and Venters just to remove any doubt. Venters treatment was especially shameful.
   23. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: January 24, 2014 at 05:44 PM (#4645949)
And the equally terrible treatment of Peter Moylan by Gonzalez's incompetent predecessor.
   24. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 24, 2014 at 05:50 PM (#4645953)
Brandon Beachy was 'shredded?' An interesting world you live in, Bobby.
   25. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 24, 2014 at 05:52 PM (#4645957)
...and crazytown. That was quick. Never disappoint.
   26. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: January 24, 2014 at 06:05 PM (#4645964)
122 pitches to finish off a never in doubt 7-0 win, never won another game, was on the table a month later. Call it what you will.
   27. Jim Wisinski Posted: January 24, 2014 at 09:20 PM (#4646020)
That really seems like a stretch. Looking at Beachy's 2012 game log I see that two starts before the 122 pitch outing he finished a streak of five starts where his pitch counts were 103, 111, 109, 104, 109. 13 more pitches than three of those starts isn't exactly a huge increase. In that start he didn't walk anybody, threw 2/3 of his pitches for strikes, and as you said the win was never in doubt; I'm sure he has had 100 pitch outings that were higher stress than that one. I think you really have to file this one under "was going to pop soon enough anyway".
   28. Swedish Chef Posted: January 24, 2014 at 09:46 PM (#4646026)
Kid Nichols 13.10 16

47 complete games in 47 starts at 170 ERA+ will do that to your WAR. Still only 27 wins, so he wasn't a winner like Jack Morris.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 24, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4646027)
122 pitches to finish off a never in doubt 7-0 win, never won another game, was on the table a month later. Call it what you will.

Oh please. There is zero evidence, none whatsoever, that 120 pitches harms a MLB starter.
   30. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: January 24, 2014 at 09:59 PM (#4646029)
The reason Beachy was in for 122 pitches that game was because he was going for his first ML shutout, and his manager let him try. The idea that Gonzalez should have pulled him because of pitch count when he was trying to achieve something he wanted at the ML level is absurd, and why Robert would never be a successful manager at any level. The argument that that one game is what sent Beachy to the table is just projection, rationalization and hubris all rolled up into a perfect bundle of stupidity.
   31. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: January 24, 2014 at 10:16 PM (#4646034)
Oh please. There is zero evidence, none whatsoever, that 120 pitches harms a MLB starter.

Based on Herb Score, the danger zone is anything after 11 pitches.
   32. Baldrick Posted: January 25, 2014 at 03:47 AM (#4646107)
Interesting that Garcia's rookie year WAR is better than his 2001 WAR when in 2001 he had a better ERA+ (135 to 122) and pitched 37.1 more innings. Supposedly there was a 0.96 runs/9 difference in defense.

The Mariners defense in 2011 was otherworldly good. Just ridiculous. From 1999 to 2001 they swapped out a mediocre Jay Buhner for peak Ichiro, a declining Griffey for one of the best defensive centerfielders in history, switched David Bell from 2B (which he played well) to 3B (which he played excellently), while bringing in a good-fielding Bret Boone.

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